Send us Fan Mail Every fertility journey hands men a job to perform: stay steady, fix what's fixable, keep providing, don't fall apart in front of her. Each role promises the same payoff: do it well, and you've held up your end. But underneath the role, the actual fear rarely changes. Most men white-knuckling their way through infertility aren't really trying to be supportive enough; they're trying to outrun the suspicion that their body, their luck, or their worth as a man has failed at the one thing no one ever doubted they could do. Swap the role for the next one, and the same dread keeps driving from underneath. In this episode, Timothy sits down with Dr. Clay Brigance. He is a licensed professional counsellor, a Level III Gottman Method couple therapist, and the founder and clinical director of Shiloh Counselling in Ballwin, Missouri, where he and his team have spent over a decade helping couples through infertility, miscarriage, and reproductive loss. He hosts the podcast Love and Infertility, and his research is drawn from clinical work and interviews with more than 1,000 couples. All has been published in journals including The Family Journal and Psychological Trauma: Theory, Research, Practice, and Policy. His forthcoming book, Couple Therapy for Reproductive Grief, is due out from the American Psychological Association in early 2027. His core premise, deliberately at odds with content that treats infertility as primarily a woman's medical and emotional burden, is that men's reproductive grief is just as real and just as capable of either fracturing a marriage or transforming it, depending entirely on whether a man learns to put his armor down before it's too late. Together, they unpack: Proving you can still protect her versus proving you're enough: Clay's own qualitative research found a recurring theme in men going through infertility, a quiet belief that their emotions matter less than their partner's, so they push their own needs down and try to be "a solid rock" instead. The episode traces how this well-intended chivalry gets expressed as practical support (paying for treatment, running errands) when what's actually being asked for is presence, and how that mismatch leaves both partners feeling isolated from each other.The double-edged emasculation of virility and provision: Infertility threatens two masculine identity pillars at once, the ability to father a child, and the ability to provide for a family. The conversation follows Clay's own memory of borrowing money from his father-in-law for treatment, which felt like a second blow stacked on top of the first, and unpacks why so many men respond to helplessness by working harder rather than showing up.The Four Pillars of getting through it together: Clay built this framework specifically because he found existing couples-therapy models missing what's unique about infertility's stress. Mindful attunement, navigating decisional conflict, uncovering each partner's disrupted vision of parenthood, and keeping physical intimacy alive together, his research suggests these don't just prevent damage, they predict genuine post-traumatic growth.The Dobby Effect and the self-harm conversation no one's having: Clay names the pattern of mentally punishing himself after giving his wife fertility injections, a need to "make it equal" when he couldn't otherwise share her physical pain. Timothy connects this directly to the broader, rarely discussed risk of self-harm in men moving through fertility loss, and the two land on a simple, urgent ask: find one person to talk to before it gets that far.Guest Information Licensed professional counsellor, Gottman Method couple therapist, and founder and clinical director of Shiloh Counselling, a group practice built around couple therapy for infertility, miscarriage, and reproductive loss. He also hosts Love and Infertility, a podcast created with fellow couple therapist Ginny Lupka, LPC, and is the author of the forthcoming book Couple Therapy for Reproductive Grief, set for release through the American Psychological Association in early 2027.Clay has worked almost exclusively with couples navigating reproductive trauma for over a decade, founding Shiloh Counselling shortly after completing his PhD in Counselling at the University of Missouri, St. Louis in 2023. The practice has since grown to ten therapists, and his research, drawn from clinical work with more than 1,000 couples and published in journals including The Family Journal and Psychological Trauma: Theory, Research, Practice, and Policy, has shaped his Level III training in Gottman Method Couple Therapy.Known for grounding clinical research in lived experience, speaking openly about his own and his wife's infertility journey rather than keeping it at arm's length, and naming specific, often-unspoken patterns like well-intended chivalry and what he calls the "Dobby effect" that make the male side of fertility grief speakable instead of something men quietly carry alone.Focus areas include why some couples grow closer through infertility while others separate, the compounded threat infertility poses to virility and provider identity, his Four Pillars framework for navigating reproductive grief as a couple, hidden self-punishment and self-harm risk in men, and male friendship as a precursor to vulnerability within marriage.Note: Dr. Clay Brigance appears in this interview in a personal and professional capacity. The views expressed are his own and do not represent Shiloh Counselling, the Gottman Institute, or any other affiliated institution, clinical body, or organization. Here is our affiliate link to buy the books discussed from a local bookstore in your area: https://bookshop.org/shop/AmericanMasculinity Substack Link: https://substack.com/@americanmasculinity?utm_campaign=profile&utm_medium=profile-page Connect with Dr. Clay Website: https://www.drclaybrigance.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clayton-brigance-phd-lpc-99a4381a4 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Dr.ClayBrigance/videos Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr_claybrigance/ The American Masculinity Podcast™ is hosted by Timothy Wienecke — licensed psychotherapist, Air Force veteran, and men’s advocate. Real conversations about masculinity, mental health, growth, and how men can show up better — as partners, leaders, and friends. We focus on grounded tools, not yelling or clichés. If you have questions or want a tool for something you're wrestling with, leave a comment or send a message — your feedback shapes what we build next. Note: While this doesn’t replace therapy, it might help you notice something worth exploring.
