Governance Unplugged - Internal Audit, Risk & Controls

Thomas Michel

Governance Unplugged is a podcast dedicated to exploring the essential pillars of sound governance to help organizations thrive in today’s dynamic business environment. Designed for internal auditors, risk managers, senior management and board members, the podcast delves into how robust governance, risk management, and internal controls lay the foundation for organizational safety and prosperity. By providing meaningful insights and practical strategies, the podcast aims to equip listeners with interesting insights supporting their needs to safeguard their organizations and ensure long-term success.

  1. 1d ago

    Ep 22 (PART 1): The Internal Auditor of Tomorrow: Why AI Raises the Bar feat. Hervé Gloaguen

    The Internal Auditor of Tomorrow: Why Artificial Intelligence Raises the Bar (Part 1) 🤖 I had the real privilege of sitting down with Hervé Gloaguen @https://www.linkedin.com/in/hervé-gloaguen-5348ab9/, former Group Chief Audit Executive and Group Chief Compliance Officer of Allianz, where he led up to 900 auditors and 800 compliance officers across more than 40 countries. He has also sat firmly on the business side, as a board member, bank co chief executive and audit committee member. Few people have seen our profession from so many angles. And his message is refreshingly optimistic. 🚀 The headline? AI will not replace the auditor. It raises the bar. As the manual testing, the sampling and the first level analysis get automated, the human qualities become more decisive than ever: ✅ Professional skepticism and critical thinking ✅ The ability to communicate and to persuade ✅ Integrity and ethical behaviour Hervé also unpacks the idea of the T shaped auditor, the importance of a genuine risk mindset, and why the great auditor is part diplomat, part curious investigator and, perhaps surprisingly, deeply humble. Think Inspector Colombo, but turbocharged. 🕵️ And he challenges one of our most comfortable habits: the belief that an audit team should be built mainly from accountants. The dream team of tomorrow is younger, leaner and far more diverse. 🧩 This is Part 1 of a rich two part conversation. Part 2 follows next week, and that is where it gets even bolder. 📅 👉 What do you believe raises the bar most for the auditor of tomorrow? I would love to read your thoughts. #InternalAudit #Governance #RiskManagement #AuditAndAssurance #ArtificialIntelligence #Leadership #GovernanceUnplugged

    44 min

  2. Jun 16

    Ep 21: The Boardroom Does Not Care About Your Frameworks feat. Tonny W. Dekker

    In this episode, Thomas Michel interviews Tony W. DeKker, a former global head of business risk services at Ernst & Young, who now serves on various boards and teaches at Erasmus University. They discuss the gap between GRC science and the reality of the boardroom, the human factor in governance, and the art of risk discipline. They also explore the challenges of risk oversight, the strategic mistakes in cutting GRC functions, and the shortcomings of boardroom risk discussions. The conversation with Tonny Dekker covers the topics of risk management, governance, and the impact of AI on GRC. It emphasises the importance of human judgment, behavior, and emotional intelligence in board-level risk understanding and decision-making. Additionally, it explores the future of GRC and the challenges and opportunities presented by AI and technology. Takeaways Human behavior and the human factor play a significant role in the effectiveness of governance and risk oversight.The gap between GRC science and the reality of the boardroom presents challenges that require a balance between formalities and the art of risk discipline. Risk management is more of an art than a scienceThe future of GRC belongs to leaders with the courage to integrate, simplify, and embrace technology Chapters 00:00 Effective Risk Oversight in Boardrooms31:00 The Art of Risk Management38:19 The Future of Technology and GRC51:08 The Evolution of GRC Platforms

    50 min

  3. May 19

    Ep 20: Modern Risk Management Must Drive Better Decisions feat. Prof. Stefan Hunziker

    The conversation delves into the purpose and challenges of modern risk management, the importance of risk management in decision-making, the limitations of traditional risk reporting, the role of quantification, and the integration of risk management with internal audit and compliance. It emphasizes the need for risk management to shape decisions under uncertainty and be integrated into the decision-making process, with a focus on better judgment, resilience, and closer integration with other governance functions. Takeaways Risk management must shape decisions under uncertaintyIntegrated risk management is a part of the decision-making processThe future of risk management involves better judgment, stronger resilience, and closer integration with internal audit, compliance, and leadership decisions Chapters 00:00 The Purpose of Modern Risk Management07:42 The Importance of Risk Management13:21 Practical Changes in Risk Management18:39 Decision-Relevant Risk Reporting24:15 Quantification in Risk Management31:29 Integration with Internal Audit and Compliance

    37 min

  4. May 5

    Ep 19: AI Augmented Audits - A Roadmap to a Future Ready Internal Audit Function w/ Robert Zergenyi

    The conversation explores the transformative impact of AI on the internal audit function, emphasizing its role as a capability shift rather than just a tool. It delves into the practical implications of AI on the audit lifecycle, the importance of understanding different types of AI, the transformation of the internal audit function, and the future role of the internal auditor in an AI-enabled world. Takeaways AI as a transformative capabilityAI's impact on the audit lifecycle Chapters 00:00 AI as a Transformative Capability07:21 Understanding Different Types of AI

    16 min

  5. Apr 21

    Ep 18: How Internal Audit Brings Reality to AI - Boards Need Truth, Not Tech Optimism w/ R. Zergenyi

    The conversation explores the impact of AI on organizations, the fiduciary responsibility of boards, AI regulation, building trust in responsible AI, defining decision authority, internal audit's role in AI, and the ideal superpower for AI oversight. Takeaways AI is a boardroom priorityStrong AI governance requires clarity in practiceInternal Audit plays a critical role in enabling safe and responsible transformation Chapters 00:00 The Reality of AI in Organizations06:55 Board Fiduciary Responsibility and Oversight12:16 AI Regulation and Board Perspective22:10 Defining Decision Authority and Ownership32:23 Superpower for AI Oversight

    33 min

  6. Mar 31

    Ep 17: The Human Side of AI - Change, Trust, and Governance in One Playbook feat. Christian de Loës

    Keywords   AI transformation, governance, trust, human-centric, accountability, risk management, organizational culture, change management, executive leadership, digital transformation     Summary   In this episode of Governance Unplugged, host Thomas Michel and guest Christian Deloes discuss the complexities of AI transformation, emphasizing the importance of trust, governance, and human-centric approaches. They explore how organizations can successfully adopt AI by fostering a culture of psychological safety, establishing clear governance frameworks, and ensuring that AI initiatives align with business objectives. The conversation highlights common pitfalls in AI transformation, the role of boards in governance, and the necessity of measuring both value and risk in AI projects.     Takeaways   AI transformation is a continuous shift, not a one-time project. Success in AI is visible when it creates real business value. Good governance enables speed and trust, not bureaucracy. Boards should focus on strategic risks and compliance. Psychological safety is crucial for fostering innovation. Adoption of AI must be measured alongside ROI. Human-centric approaches are essential for successful AI integration. Clear decision rights reduce shadow AI and enhance accountability. Organizations must connect AI initiatives to business objectives. Effective change management is critical for AI transformation.     Titles   Navigating AI Transformation: Governance and Trust The Human Element in AI Adoption      sound bites   "What gets measured gets followed up." "Adoption is the product." "We need to create business agility."     Chapters   00:00 Introduction to Governance Unplugged 06:10 Success Metrics in AI Transformation 14:02 Common Pitfalls in AI Transformation 20:36 Immediate Actions for Boards on AI Governance 26:03 Navigating AI Governance and Liability 30:23 Connecting Strategy to Execution for Business Agility 37:15 The Importance of Data Governance 44:03 Fostering Trust and Capability in AI Adoption 54:25 Upline_Intro Music Podcast.wav

    55 min

  7. Mar 10

    Ep 16: Beyond Bots - How to Grow the Next Generation of Internal Auditors feat. Dijana De Coker

    The conversation delves into the changing landscape of governance, the evolution of the modern internal auditor, the impact of AI on audit careers, and the skills of the future internal auditor. It also explores personal well-being, career surprises, practical examples of courage and integrity, preparing junior professionals for dark times, and the future of audit careers. Additionally, it discusses communication and influence in internal audit and the need to reskill audit teams for the future. The conversation explores the evolving skill mix in internal audit, the challenge of attracting top young talents, the use of role play and playbooks, AI as a talent enabler, lessons from audit background, preserving human core in the age of technology, culture and talent retention in internal audit, and cultivating future audit talent. Key takeaways include the rebranding of internal audit, the use of role play and playbooks, AI as a development tool, leadership lessons, preserving human core, attractiveness as an employer, and psychological safety and trust. Takeaways The evolving role of internal auditors in the face of AI automationThe importance of courage, integrity, and practical skills in the future of audit careers Rebranding internal auditAccelerated development programsRole play and playbooksAI as a development toolUpskilling and reskillingUnderstanding motivationLeadership lessonsPreserving human coreAttractiveness as an employerContinuous learning and exposurePositioning internal audit as a talent poolPsychological safety and trust Chapters 00:00 The Changing Landscape of Governance07:22 The Evolution of the Modern Internal Auditor14:27 The Impact of AI on Audit Careers22:35 The Future of Audit Careers28:38 Skills of the Future Internal Auditor35:29 Communication and Influence in Internal Audit42:37 Attracting Top Young Talents to Internal Audit54:28 Role Play and Playbooks for Internal Audit01:02:24 Lessons from Audit Background01:11:14 Culture and Talent Retention in Internal Audit

    1 hr

  8. Feb 17

    Ep 15: Guardians of Trust – The Human & Intelligent Future of Governance feat. Martin Studer

    The conversation explores the future of governance, the role of internal audit in risk management, integrated assurance, simplicity and clarity in governance, accountability and oversight in the age of AI, adapting to technology and industry standards, the role of senior personnel in audit activities, data testing and assurance in internal audit, access to data and analysis for internal audit, understanding data trends and outliers, assurance and data reliance, proactive and dynamic risk management, intelligent risk management and business value, defining risk capacity and appetite, collaboration between internal audit and risk management, preventing assurance fatigue and maintaining accountability, transforming internal audit without losing credibility, educating the board on integrated assurance, the role of the board and management in organizing the assurance ecosystem, essential reading for chief audit executives, the importance of trust and assurance, the future of internal audit in 2030, high performing internal audit function in 2030, and the guiding principle of trust and accountability. Recommended reading from Martin: 1. Free Speech, A History from Socrates to Social Media, Jacob Mchangama 2. Das Harvard Konzept, Sachgerecht verhandeln, erfolgreich verhandeln, Roger Fisher, William Ury 3. Made to Stick, Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die, Chip Heath, Dan Heath 4. Radical Uncertainty, Decision Making Beyond the Numbers, John Kay, Mervyn King 5. Corporate Fraud, The Human Factor, Maryam Hussain Chapters 00:00 Exploring the Future of Governance05:25 Integrated Assurance and Risk Management11:47 Data Testing and Assurance in Internal Audit16:53 Proactive and Dynamic Risk Management23:30 Preventing Assurance Fatigue and Maintaining Accountability28:38 The Role of the Board and Management in Organizing the Assurance Ecosystem38:07 The Future of Internal Audit in 203043:16 High Performing Internal Audit Function in 2030

    54 min
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About

Governance Unplugged is a podcast dedicated to exploring the essential pillars of sound governance to help organizations thrive in today’s dynamic business environment. Designed for internal auditors, risk managers, senior management and board members, the podcast delves into how robust governance, risk management, and internal controls lay the foundation for organizational safety and prosperity. By providing meaningful insights and practical strategies, the podcast aims to equip listeners with interesting insights supporting their needs to safeguard their organizations and ensure long-term success.

Information

  • Creator
    Thomas Michel
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    23
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Thomas Michel

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