Grow Your Camp

Mark P. Fisher & Carl Lefever
  • 5.0 (1)
  • Marketing
  • Updated Weekly

Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast: 'Cause You Can't Minister to Empty Beds Where we share stories and systems to help camps grow. Hosts: Mark P. Fisher, of Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, of Improve & Grow Overview: Most camp directors didn't sign up to be marketers. They signed up because they know what happens to a kid who spends a week away from everything — and they wanted to be part of it. But empty beds are a real problem, and figuring out how to fill them, fund the mission, and still lead well is work nobody really prepared you for. The Grow Your Camp Podcast exists for that director. Every episode opens with one tactic you can use this week — then goes deeper with a real camp leader who's already solved the problem you're sitting with. Real numbers. Real stories. The systems behind the growth. This is what it sounds like when the mission gets to grow. Key Themes: Filling the Calendar: Strategies and real-world examples of how retreat and camp leaders increase bookings and reduce seasonal gaps. Topics might include: lead generation systems, improving inquiry response times, pricing strategy, market positioning, capacity management, and off-season marketing approaches.Marketing that Feels Like Ministry: How faith-driven leaders approach marketing as an extension of their mission rather than a distraction from it. Topics might include: values-based storytelling, ethical persuasion, branding that builds trust, and aligning marketing messages. Digital Growth Systems: Modern tools and digital marketing tactics that consistently drive visibility, inquiries, and revenue for retreats and camps. Topics might include: websites that convert, CRM and automation, SEO and Google Ads, social media advertising, online reviews, and emerging technologies like AI.Stories of Growth: Candid conversations with leaders about their challenges, breakthroughs, and the turning points that sparked momentum. Topics might include: turning around a struggling retreat season, launching new programs, rebuilding after crisis, or scaling operations while staying mission-aligned.Leading for Growth: How leadership mindset, team culture, and operational systems create the foundation for sustainable growth. Topics might include: team alignment, delegation, budgeting and stewardship, guest experience excellence, and building systems that support long-term ministry impact. Episodes are typically 30-45 minutes in length, content is fun, engaging and practical. We bring on reputable guests that work in or on camp and always include a quick camp marketing tip at the top of each episode. Have a specific question you'd like us to cover? Click here to submit a question or episode idea to our team.

  1. 2d ago ·  Video

    EP 24 | Bigger Isn’t Always Better

    SpringHill Camps has experienced both sides of growth. Its traveling day camp program grew from roughly 3,000 campers to 19,000, creating incredible ministry opportunities while also revealing an important lesson: growth works best when the systems, margins, staffing, and quality behind it can grow too. Eric Bartz shares what SpringHill learned from that season, and how camp leaders can recognize when growth is creating healthy momentum versus stretching the organization too thin. Those lessons shaped SpringHill’s next chapter. The organization made difficult decisions to refocus its programs and resources, invest in its Michigan property, strengthen pricing and margins, and rethink how it used its 1,600-bed capacity. Eric breaks down how to think differently about unused capacity, when it may be time to let go of a program, and why better margins can create room for better experiences. At SpringHill, that focus also helped substantially grow guest group revenue by putting previously unused capacity to work. SpringHill also became more intentional about retention, using survey data, personalized texts, direct phone calls, and empowered staff to understand what was keeping families from rebooking. Combined with a continued focus on program quality, retention climbed from 52% to 61%. Camp leaders will come away with practical ideas for improving retention, evaluating growth opportunities, and building systems that support sustainable growth for the long term. Mark’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip brings that same thinking to capacity: stop telling prospective campers you’re “full.” By capturing demand with a waiting list instead, camps can fill cancellations, redirect families to available weeks, and uncover growth opportunities hiding in the capacity they already have. Keywords camp growth, sustainable growth, camp leadership, camp capacity, camper retention, camp marketing, summer camp enrollment, retreat groups, camp pricing, customer engagement, camp revenue, SpringHill Camps Sound Bites “Bigger isn’t better.” “No margin, no mission.” “Not every bed is created equal.” “A week up here shapes a lifetime out there.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Eric Bartz, SpringHill Camps Have a question or topic you’d like us to cover on a future episode? Submit a topic idea. If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: VNWEWYFC5ZORLCTD

  2. Sep 25 ·  Video

    EP 23 | Growth Takes a Plan: What to Do When Your Camp Stops Growing

    Growth had been strong at Bongiorno Conference Center coming out of COVID, but by 2025 the momentum was beginning to stall. For Executive Director Carl Redding, the challenge wasn’t simply generating more business. It was figuring out what needed to change, and being willing to act on it. Rather than trying to solve everything internally, Bongiorno partnered with an outside digital marketing agency to take a fresh look at its growth opportunities. That process helped the team see both the potential ahead and the gaps that needed attention. From marketing and lead generation to inquiry follow-up and internal systems, Bongiorno began building a more intentional approach to growth. The result has been a stronger pipeline, more inquiries and bookings, and greater clarity about where the organization can go next. Carl also shares the leadership work behind that progress: addressing unhealthy staff culture, inviting trusted leaders into important decisions, empowering team members to own their areas, and knowing when outside expertise can help you see something differently. As new opportunities emerge, Bongiorno is now thinking about the next constraints to growth, including staffing, meeting space, capacity, and long-term facility planning. Carl Lefever’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip focuses on another important part of sustainable growth: keeping the guest groups you already have through proactive retreat coordination and a consistent rebooking process. Keywords camp growth, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, Bongiorno Conference Center, digital marketing, retreat bookings, lead generation, guest group retention, camp leadership, retreat coordination, organizational growth, Christian camping Sound Bites “Growth doesn’t simply happen because you want it.” “You have to communicate, communicate, overcommunicate.” “I want 100% retainment. I know it’s crazy to think like that, but why not?” “When God changes a life, it’s forever and it’s eternal.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Carl Redding, Bongiorno Conference Center Resources Retreat Coordination Process Article> Church Event Planning Checklist> Free Camp Growth Planner App > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: GBZT62DX8P3EDCBP

  3. Sep 11 ·  Video

    EP 22 | What Happens When Your Camp Systems Stop Getting in the Way?

    Camp technology often forces camps to change the way they work to fit the software. The team behind The One App took the opposite approach: learn how camps actually operate, then build technology around them. Michael John Stanley (MJ), Alan Brown, and Lindy Pinkerton share how that process began with visits to 10 camps and expanded into conversations with roughly 60 camps, plus real-world beta testing. What emerged was a consistent problem: camps were stitching together registration systems, spreadsheets, calendars, contracts, emails, whiteboards, and staff knowledge just to keep operations moving. Their response centers on what Lindy calls the Five C’s: contracts, calendars, communications, CRM, and coordinating. The conversation gets practical about guest-group registration, knowing who is actually on property, communicating between departments, coordinating meals and facilities, and giving staff access to the information they need without burying them in another complicated system. Mark’s quick marketing tip also tackles WIIFM—“What’s In It For Me?”—and why camp marketing should focus less on what your camp has and more on what those features make possible for campers, parents, churches, and retreat groups. Keywords camp technology, camp management software, camp operations, camp registration, guest group registration, camp CRM, camp communication, operational efficiency, camp management systems, retreat center software, sustainable camp growth, The One App Sound Bites “Camping found me.” — MJ “You’re basically running a city at a camp.” — Alan Brown “Everything is fragmented.” — Lindy Pinkerton “Get staff out from behind the desk and out doing mission.” — Alan Brown Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guests Michael John Stanley (MJ), The One App Alan Brown, The One App Lindy Pinkerton, The One App Resources The One App — Learn more or schedule a demo. If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: NKEL9IWUMNG2LTC0

  4. Aug 28 ·  Video

    EP 21 | Is Fear Keeping Your Camp From Growing?

    Empty beds aren’t free. An unused cabin, an open retreat weekend, or a phone that isn’t ringing represents the capacity your camp built, but isn’t using. Mark and Carl challenge one of the biggest barriers to camp growth: treating marketing primarily as a cost to control instead of an investment expected to produce a measurable return. The issue isn’t spending more for the sake of spending. It’s learning to test intelligently, track results, invest more in what works, and stop funding what doesn’t. Mark recommends thinking about marketing investment in relation to the revenue you want to achieve, using 10–12% of target gross revenue as a starting benchmark. They also unpack why fixed budgets can work against growth, why experienced marketing leadership matters, and why most camps need an “air traffic controller” coordinating specialists rather than expecting one marketing employee to do everything. Carl’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip makes measurement simple: ask every new inquiry, “How did you hear about us?” Record the answer consistently and use those patterns to make better decisions about where your next marketing dollar should go. Keywords camp marketing, camp growth, marketing investment, marketing ROI, camp marketing budget, camp enrollment, retreat bookings, lead tracking, camp capacity, marketing strategy, nonprofit growth, camp leadership Sound Bites “Empty beds aren’t free.” “Good leadership doesn’t just protect resources. It puts them to work.” “Test. Keep track. See what works. See what doesn’t.” “What are we afraid of?” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: CTICEW7Z3GYJB3XU

  5. Aug 21 ·  Video

    EP 20 | How to Get Your Camp on the First Page of Google

    More than half of a typical camp website’s traffic can come from Google searches, and for some camps, that number reaches 80% or more. That makes one question critical: When parents and retreat planners search for what you offer, can they actually find you? Senior SEO Specialist Scott Rehnberg of Improve & Grow explains camp SEO without the technical overload. He breaks down how Google understands your website, why dedicated pages for priority audiences matter, how your Google Business Profile affects visibility, and what camps can do to influence recommendations from ChatGPT and other AI search tools. Scott also shares what progress can look like over 30 days, 90 days, and six months, and why impressions and clicks only matter if they ultimately lead to inquiries, bookings, and registrations. Carl’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip: “Google Your Camp Like a Guest Would” gives you an immediate visibility check. Open an incognito browser and search your camp’s name, “summer camps near me,” and “Christian retreat centers near me.” Then try similar searches in ChatGPT. Look at who appears, what information search engines are using, and where your camp’s online presence needs work. Keywords camp SEO, summer camp marketing, Google search, search engine optimization, ChatGPT search, AI search, Google Business Profile, organic traffic, retreat center marketing, camp registrations, Google Search Console, camp website Sound Bites “It's not a trick.” — Scott Rehnberg (19:45) “If people can understand it, Google's more likely to understand it.” — Scott Rehnberg (20:26) “Sometimes the off-site things you do can give a lot of credibility to your website.” — Scott Rehnberg (27:22) “Your SEO is the work you're putting into your house to make it more valuable.” — Scott Rehnberg (46:59) Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Scott Rehnberg, Improve & Grow Chapters 00:00 Why SEO Matters for Camps 02:09 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Google Your Camp Like a Guest Would 15:51 Scott’s Camp Story 19:07 SEO, Explained Simply 24:28 Getting Your Camp Recommended by ChatGPT and AI 30:29 Why Camps Don’t Show Up in Search 35:33 Common SEO Problems for Camp and Retreat Websites 40:19 What Actually Moves the Needle With SEO 46:00 How Long Does SEO Take? 50:10 Measuring Impressions, Clicks, and Conversions 55:32 Three SEO Actions Camps Can Take This Week 57:38 Closing: Building Your Camp’s Growth Plan If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: VO8ZUDXYA1ZUJIAD

  6. Jul 31 ·  Video

    EP 19 | The Hidden Reason Camp Websites Lose Registrations

    Most camp websites unintentionally make it harder for visitors to take the next step. A homepage has to introduce your ministry, answer questions, and guide visitors in multiple directions. A landing page has one job: help the right visitor take one specific action. Oscar Quesada, CEO of Lifedge Marketing, explains why focused landing pages consistently outperform general website pages for camp registrations, retreat bookings, and facility rentals. He shares the framework his team uses to build pages that remove confusion, build trust, and improve conversions. You'll learn what separates a landing page from a standard website page, the biggest mistakes camps make, and the key elements every high-converting page should include, including clear messaging, testimonials, FAQs, pricing, compelling calls to action, and social proof. Oscar also shares a real-world example where a targeted landing page and modest Google Ads campaign generated more than $100,000 in retreat bookings. Along with the incredible insights from Oscar, Mark encourages camp leaders to price confidently as costs increase while rewarding loyal families with meaningful early-bird incentives. Registering campers before they leave camp, or shortly afterward, can improve retention, strengthen cash flow, and help families commit before they begin comparing other camps. As Mark reminds listeners, "The best time to sell next summer is this summer." Keywordslanding pages, camp websites, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, website conversions, Google Ads, Christian camps, camp registration, facility rentals, SEO, website optimization, Lifedge Marketing Sound Bites"The best time to sell next summer is this summer." "The right message, to the right audience, at the right time." "People need to understand what you do in the first 10 seconds." "Marketing is a bunch of experiments." HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow GuestOscar Quesada, Lifedge Marketing ResourcesLifedge Marketing Website >Landing Page Best Practices Guide > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: WSSYZ6CNOPQMOVKN

  7. Jul 24

    EP 18 | The Missing Sales System Behind Camp Growth

    Most camps assume they need more inquiries to grow their guest group business, but many already have enough opportunities—they simply need a better system for converting them. Sustainable growth comes from responding quickly, building trust throughout the sales process, and creating consistent follow-up that helps prospective groups confidently choose your camp. Carl opens the episode with a practical marketing tip reminding camp leaders that every inquiry has an expiration date. He explains why responding within one business day, following up consistently, scheduling clear next steps, and tracking every opportunity in a CRM dramatically increases the likelihood of turning inquiries into bookings. As Carl says, marketing creates opportunities, but sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue. Mark is joined by Lindy Pinkerton and Heather Trail from Inspiring Growth to discuss how virtual sales support is helping camps strengthen their guest group sales process without adding the cost and complexity of expanding their internal staff. They share practical insights on qualifying leads, building stronger relationships with prospective groups, simplifying contracts, improving communication, and creating systems that ensure every inquiry receives the attention it deserves. Throughout the conversation, they explain how becoming an extension of a camp's team—not simply an outside vendor—helps camps increase bookings, improve rebooking rates, and build sustainable long-term growth through better sales systems. Keywords virtual sales, guest group sales, camp CRM, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, follow-up systems, lead conversion, guest group bookings, sales process, HubSpot CRM, camp growth Sound Bites "The fortune is in the follow-up."  "We don't use 'they.' We say 'we.' We are your people."  “If you follow up more than the other person and better than the other person you can often win them.” "Marketing creates opportunities. Sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue." “What camp can do in the life of a child and adult can change a family, can change a generation.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guests Lindy Pinkerton, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth Heather Trail, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth Resources Talk with Inspiring Growth About Virtual Sales If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: IDLLDBWXQ4LNTQFY

  8. Jul 17

    EP 17 | Your Camp Isn't Full (Even If You Think It Is)

    Most camps assume they need more marketing to grow. Mark Fisher argues many actually have a capacity problem hiding in plain sight. Before diving into the main conversation, Mark shares a practical camp marketing tip: share benefits, not just features. Instead of simply promoting climbing walls, zip lines, or beautiful facilities, camps should tell stories that demonstrate real transformation. Parents and retreat planners don't just want information, they want evidence that camp changes lives. By documenting one authentic story each week, camps can create more compelling marketing that connects emotionally with future guests. The main conversation introduces Capacity Yield Management, a practical approach to helping camps generate more revenue, serve more guests, and strengthen long-term sustainability by making better use of the facilities they already have. Through real-world examples, Mark and Carl explain why "full" often isn't actually full, how outdated booking practices quietly cost camps thousands of dollars, and why better stewardship of existing resources can unlock significant growth. You'll learn how to evaluate true capacity, manage reservation holds, determine when exclusive use makes financial sense, balance multiple guest groups, identify hidden facility constraints, and build the operational systems that maximize both ministry impact and financial health. Keywordscapacity yield management, camp occupancy, camp revenue, retreat center management, Christian camps, camp marketing, storytelling marketing, guest group bookings, exclusive use, camp operations, camp leadership, camp stewardship Sound Bites“I've seen camps over and over increase monthly income by 30 % just by maximizing their occupancy.” “Combine, cancel, create, and cram. The four C's of yield management.” “Sometimes you have to cancel or prune, in order to have more growth.” “Maybe curiosity is one of the fastest paths back to joy.” “People don't just want more information. They want evidence. Evidence through story that your camp is changing lives.” HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve &Grow GuestMark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth ResourcesThe Spike of Success, by Mark P. Fisher If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: IDLLDBWXQ4LNTQFY

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About

Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast: 'Cause You Can't Minister to Empty Beds Where we share stories and systems to help camps grow. Hosts: Mark P. Fisher, of Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, of Improve & Grow Overview: Most camp directors didn't sign up to be marketers. They signed up because they know what happens to a kid who spends a week away from everything — and they wanted to be part of it. But empty beds are a real problem, and figuring out how to fill them, fund the mission, and still lead well is work nobody really prepared you for. The Grow Your Camp Podcast exists for that director. Every episode opens with one tactic you can use this week — then goes deeper with a real camp leader who's already solved the problem you're sitting with. Real numbers. Real stories. The systems behind the growth. This is what it sounds like when the mission gets to grow. Key Themes: Filling the Calendar: Strategies and real-world examples of how retreat and camp leaders increase bookings and reduce seasonal gaps. Topics might include: lead generation systems, improving inquiry response times, pricing strategy, market positioning, capacity management, and off-season marketing approaches.Marketing that Feels Like Ministry: How faith-driven leaders approach marketing as an extension of their mission rather than a distraction from it. Topics might include: values-based storytelling, ethical persuasion, branding that builds trust, and aligning marketing messages. Digital Growth Systems: Modern tools and digital marketing tactics that consistently drive visibility, inquiries, and revenue for retreats and camps. Topics might include: websites that convert, CRM and automation, SEO and Google Ads, social media advertising, online reviews, and emerging technologies like AI.Stories of Growth: Candid conversations with leaders about their challenges, breakthroughs, and the turning points that sparked momentum. Topics might include: turning around a struggling retreat season, launching new programs, rebuilding after crisis, or scaling operations while staying mission-aligned.Leading for Growth: How leadership mindset, team culture, and operational systems create the foundation for sustainable growth. Topics might include: team alignment, delegation, budgeting and stewardship, guest experience excellence, and building systems that support long-term ministry impact. Episodes are typically 30-45 minutes in length, content is fun, engaging and practical. We bring on reputable guests that work in or on camp and always include a quick camp marketing tip at the top of each episode. Have a specific question you'd like us to cover? Click here to submit a question or episode idea to our team.

Information

  • Creator
    Mark P. Fisher & Carl Lefever
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    24
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Mark P. Fisher & Carl Lefever
  • Show Website
    Grow Your Camp