Grow Your Camp

Mark P. Fisher & Carl Lefever
  • 5.0 (1)
  • Marketing

Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast: 'Cause You Can't Minister to Empty Beds Where we share stories and systems to help camps grow. Hosts: Mark P. Fisher, of Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, of Improve & Grow Overview: Most camp directors didn't sign up to be marketers. They signed up because they know what happens to a kid who spends a week away from everything — and they wanted to be part of it. But empty beds are a real problem, and figuring out how to fill them, fund the mission, and still lead well is work nobody really prepared you for. The Grow Your Camp Podcast exists for that director. Every episode opens with one tactic you can use this week — then goes deeper with a real camp leader who's already solved the problem you're sitting with. Real numbers. Real stories. The systems behind the growth. This is what it sounds like when the mission gets to grow. Key Themes: Filling the Calendar: Strategies and real-world examples of how retreat and camp leaders increase bookings and reduce seasonal gaps. Topics might include: lead generation systems, improving inquiry response times, pricing strategy, market positioning, capacity management, and off-season marketing approaches.Marketing that Feels Like Ministry: How faith-driven leaders approach marketing as an extension of their mission rather than a distraction from it. Topics might include: values-based storytelling, ethical persuasion, branding that builds trust, and aligning marketing messages. Digital Growth Systems: Modern tools and digital marketing tactics that consistently drive visibility, inquiries, and revenue for retreats and camps. Topics might include: websites that convert, CRM and automation, SEO and Google Ads, social media advertising, online reviews, and emerging technologies like AI.Stories of Growth: Candid conversations with leaders about their challenges, breakthroughs, and the turning points that sparked momentum. Topics might include: turning around a struggling retreat season, launching new programs, rebuilding after crisis, or scaling operations while staying mission-aligned.Leading for Growth: How leadership mindset, team culture, and operational systems create the foundation for sustainable growth. Topics might include: team alignment, delegation, budgeting and stewardship, guest experience excellence, and building systems that support long-term ministry impact. Episodes are typical 30-45 minutes in length, content is fun, engaging and practical. We bring on reputable guests that work in or on camp and always include a quick camp marketing tip at the top of each episode. Have a specific question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record a question and submit to our team.

  1. 6d ago

    EP 17 | Your Camp Isn't Full (Even If You Think It Is)

    Most camps assume they need more marketing to grow. Mark Fisher argues many actually have a capacity problem hiding in plain sight. Before diving into the main conversation, Mark shares a practical camp marketing tip: share benefits, not just features. Instead of simply promoting climbing walls, zip lines, or beautiful facilities, camps should tell stories that demonstrate real transformation. Parents and retreat planners don't just want information, they want evidence that camp changes lives. By documenting one authentic story each week, camps can create more compelling marketing that connects emotionally with future guests. The main conversation introduces Capacity Yield Management, a practical approach to helping camps generate more revenue, serve more guests, and strengthen long-term sustainability by making better use of the facilities they already have. Through real-world examples, Mark and Carl explain why "full" often isn't actually full, how outdated booking practices quietly cost camps thousands of dollars, and why better stewardship of existing resources can unlock significant growth. You'll learn how to evaluate true capacity, manage reservation holds, determine when exclusive use makes financial sense, balance multiple guest groups, identify hidden facility constraints, and build the operational systems that maximize both ministry impact and financial health. Keywordscapacity yield management, camp occupancy, camp revenue, retreat center management, Christian camps, camp marketing, storytelling marketing, guest group bookings, exclusive use, camp operations, camp leadership, camp stewardship Sound Bites“I've seen camps over and over increase monthly income by 30 % just by maximizing their occupancy.” “Combine, cancel, create, and cram. The four C's of yield management.” “Sometimes you have to cancel or prune, in order to have more growth.” “Maybe curiosity is one of the fastest paths back to joy.” “People don't just want more information. They want evidence. Evidence through story that your camp is changing lives.” HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve &Grow GuestMark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth ResourcesThe Spike of Success, by Mark P. Fisher If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: IDLLDBWXQ4LNTQFY

  2. Jul 11

    EP 16 | What Happens When Referrals Aren't Enough?

    Many camps dream of growing their ministry, but sustainable growth rarely comes from a single campaign or one great season. It happens through consistent leadership, clear messaging, intentional systems, and a willingness to confront the obstacles holding a camp back. Mark opens the episode with a practical marketing tip on selling the problem before the program, explaining why camps should lead with the challenges their guests already feel, not simply the name or date of an event. When people recognize a problem they're trying to solve, they're far more likely to engage with your camp's solution. Dave Crouse, Executive Director of Angeles Crest Christian Camp, shares the remarkable story of taking over a camp that couldn't pay its electric bill and transforming it into a thriving ministry serving nearly 7,000 guests each year. Dave discusses the leadership decisions that changed the trajectory of the camp, including clarifying the camp's brand, improving its digital presence, embracing data-driven decision making, and investing consistently in both facilities and people. He also explains how sustained growth strengthened donor confidence, funded major capital improvements, and positioned the camp to pursue even bigger ministry opportunities, including a bold vision to serve 10,000 guests annually. Throughout the conversation, Dave reminds camp leaders that growth begins by honestly identifying the one or two obstacles preventing your camp from moving forward and intentionally building systems to overcome them. Keywordscamp leadership, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, nonprofit marketing, camp growth, branding, digital marketing, donor development, guest group marketing, executive director, stewardship Sound Bites"My first day on the job, I was told that we were financially in the hole and that we didn't have enough money to pay the electric bill” "Sell the problem before the program" "I had to come to that realization what I had in the past was not gonna happen and and lead to growth now." "When you start to get that consistent growth, a lot of other things come with it." HostsMark P. Fisher https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/ Carl Lefever https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/ GuestDave Crouse Executive Director, Angeles Crest Christian Camp ResourcesAngeles Crest Christian Camp https://angelescrest.com The Paine Protocol by Mark P. Fisher Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: MUOXNEDI4J6OKCXV

  3. Jul 3

    EP 15 | How Camps Can Build a Referral System That Actually Works

    Word-of-mouth has always been one of the strongest drivers of camp growth, but for many camps, it's still an informal process that's impossible to measure or improve. Peter Elbaum, owner of Camp Tree and Operations Director at Greystone Camp, shares how camps can turn referrals into a repeatable growth system. Drawing from both his camp leadership experience and software engineering background, Peter explains why great systems free camp staff to focus on relationships instead of repetitive administrative work. Mark and Carl also discuss why referrals consistently outperform many other marketing channels, how camps can reward families and staff without creating unnecessary complexity, and why measuring referral performance is essential for long-term growth. Peter shares practical examples from more than 100 camps using Camp Tree, including how one camp achieved a 15x return on investment by replacing guesswork with measurable referral tracking. Keywords camp referrals, referral marketing, Camp Tree, camper enrollment, staff recruitment, camp growth, word of mouth marketing, CampMinder integration, ambassador programs, camp operations, camp software, summer camp marketing Sound Bites "Camp needs to be referable." “Often at camp, it seems like the default is to work harder and not necessarily smarter." "You can't manage what you don't measure." Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Peter Elbaum, Camp Tree Chapters 00:03 Introduction and Setting the Scene 00:30 The Power of Camp Ministry 01:00 Building Relationships Through Camp Experiences 02:09 Marketing Insights: The Importance of Retargeting 05:43 Introducing Peter Elbaum and Camp Tree 07:49 Peter's Journey: From Camp to Tech 10:33 The Impact of Software Engineering on Camp Operations 12:15 Identifying Challenges in Camp Management 15:59 Acquiring Camp Tree: A New Chapter 18:16 The Value of Camp Tree for Camps 20:46 Referral Programs: What Works? 24:24 Success Stories: Measuring ROI with Camp Tree 26:51 Special Offer and Closing Thoughts Resources Camp Tree — https://camptree.orgPromo Code: GYC26 for $150 off your first year of Camp TreeCamp Operations Newsletter — https://campoperations.com Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: PBVNSIQCRJAN17OM

  4. Jun 26

    EP 14 | How Camps Can Access Free Advertising on Google via the Google Ads Grant

    Many camps struggle with visibility—not because their programs lack value, but because the right families, churches, and retreat planners never discover them. Mark opens the episode with a practical camp marketing tip on following up with retreat inquiries that have gone silent, sharing a simple email subject line that can restart conversations and recover lost bookings. Then Carl shares how an unexpected project at Refreshing Mountain Camp introduced him to Google Ads and ultimately launched a career helping camps grow through digital marketing. The conversation then turns to one of the biggest opportunities available to nonprofit camps: the Google Ad Grant. Carl explains how eligible 501(c)(3) organizations can receive up to $10,000 per month in free Google advertising, walks through the application process, campaign setup, keyword strategy, and the common mistakes that prevent camps from seeing results. He also shares real examples of camps using the grant to generate more registrations, retreat inquiries, and community engagement, along with his perspective on how AI is changing search and what camp leaders should be doing to stay visible online. Keywords Google Ads Grant, nonprofit marketing, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, Google advertising, camp enrollment, nonprofit advertising, digital marketing, summer camps, retreat bookings Sound Bites "About fifty percent of the camps I talk to have no idea the grant program exists." "One of the biggest mistakes camps make is they apply for the grant and then they never do anything else with it." "The reality is organic listings just continue to get pushed further and further down." "You could start showing up at the top of Google and not have to pay for the ads." Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Resources How to Apply for a Google Ads Grant https://growyourcamppodcast.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-google-ad-grant/ Google for Nonprofits Program Website https://www.google.com/nonprofits/ Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: UTVAPPJTMM75SPDU

  5. Jun 19

    Ep 13 | Increase Camp Revenue Without Adding More Guests

    Many camp leaders assume the only way to grow revenue is to add more guests, build more facilities, or create more programs. But what if growth starts with better stewardship of the capacity you already have? Mark Fisher shares the personal story that reshaped his career, including the health crisis and board decision that led him from camp leadership into consulting. That journey sets the stage for a practical conversation about one of the most misunderstood topics in camping: pricing. Mark and Carl discuss why many camps underprice their highest-demand dates, how waitlists reveal hidden opportunities, and why demand-based pricing is about stewardship—not simply charging more. They break down practical ways to get started, including seasonal pricing, using waitlists as a decision-making tool, giving booking teams flexibility to solve problems, and creating pricing options that help both camps and guests succeed. The episode also opens with a practical marketing tip on expanding your camp's online visibility through free directory listings, including Google Maps, Apple Maps, Yelp, tourism websites, and camp-specific directories. Keywords demand-based pricing, camp pricing strategy, camp revenue growth, camp sustainability, seasonal pricing, camp waitlists, retreat center pricing, camp stewardship, camp capacity management Sound Bites "Our fifth son is being raised by a different father." "That day, that generosity unlocked the future for me." "The F word. It's four letters and it's full." "We're full, we're full. And I'll say, that's a cuss word we don't use. We say, we have a wait list." "Waitlisting is really the indicator on a leader's dashboard." Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Chapters 00:00 Episode Soundbites 00:13 Introduction 01:17 Quick Camp Marketing Tip 06:55 Mark's Story 18:10 Camp Pricing 22:15 The Waitlist: Your Demand Signal 34:15 Putting Demand-Based Pricing to Work 42:20 Communicating Price Changes 47:32 Real Results & Camp Stories 52:08 Baby Steps to Get Started Resources Camp Directory Listings Guide Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: PEUWHTCU2NBTYHZJ, BQHFSGNXOLYO5MEY, BI46AFUWOYJCJMZS

  6. May 25

    Ep 12 | The Real Reason Guests Rebook Your Camp

    Refreshing Mountain has doubled revenue over the last decade while maintaining a strong focus on guest relationships and retention. In this episode, Administrative Director Justin Harnish shares the principles that helped the camp grow without losing the culture that built its reputation. Mark opens with a personal dedication to his mother’s 85th birthday and reflects on the people and experiences that shape camp leaders over time. Carl’s quick marketing tip explains why camps should stop sending every audience to the same homepage and how dedicated landing pages can improve conversions and lead generation. Justin then shares his personal camp story and how a formative camp experience shaped both his faith and belief in the long-term power of camp ministry. The conversation explores the two “Christian marketing principles” guiding Refreshing Mountain’s growth strategy. “Relationships Trump Everything” focuses on intentional guest care and personalized communication. “Return Business Is Worth Investing In” covers stewardship, rebooking strategy, guest retention, and why long-term relationships drive sustainable growth. Justin also shares lessons around guest feedback, occupancy planning, and how adding meeting room capacity became a major growth driver for year-round bookings. Keywords camp marketing, camp retention, rebooking strategy, retreat center growth, guest experience, Christian camp leadership, landing pages for camps Sound Bites “Relationships trump everything.”“Return business is a metric of integrity.”“The camps growing fastest online make visitors instantly feel: ‘This is exactly for me.’”“Happy returning guests are your best marketing.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Justin Harnish, Refreshing Mountain Chapters 00:05 Welcome & Episode Dedication 02:38 Quick Camp Marketing Tip 08:40 Justin's Camp Story 09:29 The Power of Camp Experiences 11:57 Refreshing Mountain Background 14:51 Balancing Business and Ministry 15:57 Org Challenges During Season of Growth 22:52 Principles of Relationship-Driven Service 24:53 Understanding Rebooking and Customer Feedback 26:42 Enhancing Customer Experience Through Personalization 30:09 The Importance of Rebooking and Customer Relationships 37:13 Investing in Return Business 45:20 The Impact of Meeting Room Capacity on Revenue 45:57 Growth Partnership with Improve & Grow 48:22 Making Way for Innovation at Camp 53:22 Episode Debrief with Mark & Carl 59:42 Closing Message & New Website Features Resources Refreshing Mountain Christian Marketing Principles Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.

  7. May 22

    Ep 11 | How a Camp Went from Struggling to Waitlisted

    Hume New England launched with a bold mission: bring the Hume camp experience to the Northeast and expand gospel impact in a region with fewer large Christian camp ministries. But early years brought operational setbacks, financial pressure, staffing challenges, and a camp model that didn’t fit the realities of East Coast churches. Before the interview, Mark shares a marketing tip about “riding the wave” instead of trying to create one. He explains how listening to church leaders led Hume New England to shorten camp sessions, lower pricing, and redesign programs around what churches and families actually needed—changes that ultimately helped fill more beds and increase ministry impact. Brian Mount then shares what it was like stepping into Hume New England as COO during COVID and leading a turnaround effort that required operational changes, measurable marketing systems, and a willingness to challenge long-standing assumptions. The conversation explores adapting camp structures for smaller churches, embracing guest groups, improving follow-up and marketing accountability, and overcoming internal resistance to change. The results were significant: Summer campers grew from roughly 620 to nearly 1,200Guest group revenue increased from about $500,000 to $1.4 millionCamp seasons moved from empty beds to waitlistsStaff morale and ministry momentum dramatically improved Brian also shares encouragement for camp leaders navigating difficult seasons and explains why understanding your market may require rethinking long-held traditions without compromising mission. Keywords camp growth, Christian camp leadership, camp marketing, guest group strategy, summer camp enrollment, camp profitability, church partnerships, Hume New England, ministry growth, leadership development Sound Bites “Tradition is a tool. It’s not a trophy.” “We were doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.” “Every empty bed is a potential missed opportunity for someone to hear the gospel.” “Start small and don’t be afraid to fail.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Brian Mount, LifeShape International Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 00:56 Quick Camp Marketing Tip 04:19 Brian Mount Introduction & Camp Story 07:38 Leadership and Transformation at Hume 09:13 Early Days at Hume 15:51 Lessons Learned from Early Struggles 17:39 Personal Journey and Influences 19:09 The Decision to Partner for Growth 23:51 Strategic Changes and Marketing Innovations 29:36 Indicators of Positive Change 34:00 Achieving Profitability and Impact 40:06 Encouragement for Struggling Camp Leaders Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.

  8. May 9

    Ep 10 | The Camp Messaging Problem: Why Clarity Beats Cleverness

    In this episode Mark opens with a tribute to one of his earliest camp mentors, Neil Fichthorn, the longtime executive director at Sandy Cove. Mark shares the leadership lessons Neil taught him — including the phrase that became foundational to this podcast: “You can’t minister to empty beds.” Carl’s quick camp marketing tip focuses on why your Google Business Profile may be quietly costing you bookings. He explains how local search results work, why reviews and categories matter, and how small profile updates can improve visibility for camps and retreat centers. The featured conversation is with Casey Fuerst, owner of Tic Tac Toe Marketing, who spent 18 years serving at a Lutheran camp in Nebraska before launching an agency focused on camps and nonprofits. Casey shares how camp shaped her personally and why she now helps camps communicate more clearly. The conversation explores one of the biggest problems Casey sees on camp websites: cluttered messaging. Using her “hall closet” analogy, she explains why trying to communicate everything at once confuses parents and retreat guests instead of helping them take action. The episode also covers Donald Miller’s StoryBrand framework and practical ways camps can simplify messaging, strengthen positioning, and improve marketing clarity. Keywords camp marketing, camp website design, StoryBrand for camps, camp messaging, Christian camp marketing Sound Bites “If everybody thinks their stuff belongs on the front page of the website, it becomes the junk drawer.”“Clear is kind. Clever is not.”“Most organizations are communicating at an eight when customers only need a two.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Casey Fuerst, Tic Tac Toe Marketing Chapters 00:05 Introduction 02:11 Today's Topic: Messaging & Clarity 02:45 Quick Tip: Your Google Business Profile 10:19 Messaging and Brand Positioning 10:51 Meet Casey Fuerst 12:31 Casey's Camp Story 12:34 Personal Camp Stories and Experiences 13:37 The Impact of Camp Experiences on Young Adults 16:11 Marketing Insights for Camps 16:20 The Hall Closet Problem 19:28 The Importance of Clear Messaging 22:01 The StoryBrand Framework 22:11 The StoryBrand Framework in Action 25:14 Real-World Examples of Messaging Success 25:43 Finding Your One Message 28:14 Navigating New Audiences and Digital Marketing 28:56 Messaging Wins: Real Stories 31:14 Celebrating Podcast Milestones and Future Directions 38:56 Where Messaging Works Best 42:45 Reaching New Audiences 46:14 Wrap-Up & Celebrating Episode 10 Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.

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About

Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast: 'Cause You Can't Minister to Empty Beds Where we share stories and systems to help camps grow. Hosts: Mark P. Fisher, of Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, of Improve & Grow Overview: Most camp directors didn't sign up to be marketers. They signed up because they know what happens to a kid who spends a week away from everything — and they wanted to be part of it. But empty beds are a real problem, and figuring out how to fill them, fund the mission, and still lead well is work nobody really prepared you for. The Grow Your Camp Podcast exists for that director. Every episode opens with one tactic you can use this week — then goes deeper with a real camp leader who's already solved the problem you're sitting with. Real numbers. Real stories. The systems behind the growth. This is what it sounds like when the mission gets to grow. Key Themes: Filling the Calendar: Strategies and real-world examples of how retreat and camp leaders increase bookings and reduce seasonal gaps. Topics might include: lead generation systems, improving inquiry response times, pricing strategy, market positioning, capacity management, and off-season marketing approaches.Marketing that Feels Like Ministry: How faith-driven leaders approach marketing as an extension of their mission rather than a distraction from it. Topics might include: values-based storytelling, ethical persuasion, branding that builds trust, and aligning marketing messages. Digital Growth Systems: Modern tools and digital marketing tactics that consistently drive visibility, inquiries, and revenue for retreats and camps. Topics might include: websites that convert, CRM and automation, SEO and Google Ads, social media advertising, online reviews, and emerging technologies like AI.Stories of Growth: Candid conversations with leaders about their challenges, breakthroughs, and the turning points that sparked momentum. Topics might include: turning around a struggling retreat season, launching new programs, rebuilding after crisis, or scaling operations while staying mission-aligned.Leading for Growth: How leadership mindset, team culture, and operational systems create the foundation for sustainable growth. Topics might include: team alignment, delegation, budgeting and stewardship, guest experience excellence, and building systems that support long-term ministry impact. Episodes are typical 30-45 minutes in length, content is fun, engaging and practical. We bring on reputable guests that work in or on camp and always include a quick camp marketing tip at the top of each episode. Have a specific question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record a question and submit to our team.

Information

  • Creator
    Mark P. Fisher & Carl Lefever
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    17
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Mark P. Fisher & Carl Lefever
  • Show Website
    Grow Your Camp

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