The Lee and Irene Show

Lee Holmes

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Nutrition
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WELCOME to The Lee and Irene Show! 🎙️ Lee Holmes and Irene Falcone bring you real, raw, and refreshingly honest chats about wellness, beauty and life, minus the woo-woo. We’re here to keep wellness human, hilarious, and totally unfiltered. theleeandireneshow.substack.com

1d ago

Episode 17: Lyme Disease, Being Gaslit, and Getting Your Mojo Back, We Hear Amy Down's Four-Year Fight for Truth 🩺

Episode 17: Lyme Disease, Being Gaslit, and Getting Your Mojo Back - Amy Down's Four-Year Fight to Be Believed 🩺 Amy Down spent four years being told there was nothing wrong with her. Exhausted, foggy, gut in revolt, running on adrenaline while raising two small children and working full time in wellness. Test after test came back normal. Doctor after doctor suggested it was probably just stress. This week Amy joins Lee and Irene in the cabin to tell the story of what it actually was, and what four years in the medical maze taught her about being a woman who knows something is wrong and cannot get anyone to listen. Amy is a certified nutrition, health and life coach, a master hypnotherapist, and an EFT and NLP practitioner who spent over a decade at Australia’s biggest natural healthcare company before founding Living Mojo. She is also one of Lee’s closest friends, so this is less a polished interview and more two people who have walked a long road together finally telling the whole thing out loud. Her diagnosis, when it finally came, was a tick-borne illness. In Australia that opens a genuinely contested conversation, and Lee and Irene handle it the way the show always does: warmly, honestly, and without pretending the science is settled. Irene, who went in convinced Lyme was something you only caught in the Hamptons, asks the questions everyone at home is thinking. Then Justin arrives with a Womansplain for the ages (froyo versus gelato versus ice cream, with receipts), and Lee closes with a rave about the most underrated wellness tool there is. Not a supplement. A boundary. ✨ In this episode we chat about: ● Why four years of normal test results does not always mean nothing is wrong ● What a tick bite can actually do, and why Lyme is so contested here in Australia ● The MOJO framework Amy built to climb out: Mindset, Oxygenation, Optimisation, Joy ● How to advocate for yourself when you know something is wrong and you are not being heard ● Justin’s three-day froyo bender and the great gelato-versus-ice-cream-versus-froyo shootout ● Lee’s rave on boundaries, and the difference between a wall and an instruction manual 🎙 What’s Popping: Amy Down on Lyme, Being Heard, and Getting Your Mojo Back Ten Years, and a Friendship That Started With Gut Health ● How They Met: Lee found Amy before Amy found Lee. Amy took Lee on as a gut-health writer at Blackmores, then started feeling unwell herself and came to Lee for coaching. Lee helped her feel seen and heard. Roughly ten years later, they are still at it. ● An Unusual CV: Fitness instructor and marketer in Sydney, then PR and comms in London (with a stint in India studying yoga and a meeting with the Dalai Lama), then nearly twelve years at Blackmores while she qualified in what she does now. ● From Mummy Mojo to Living Mojo: Amy started Mummy Mojo in 2014 with her Mother’s Group friend Debs, running detox programs and helping overloaded mums find some rest. When Debs moved to Queensland, the business was reborn as Living Mojo, because the one word Amy could never let go of was mojo. The Superwoman Complex, and the Silent Thief ● The Plates Kept Spinning: Two kids under five, a full-time corporate career, study on the side, the household, community groups. Amy wore the Superwoman cape with pride and kept every plate polished on the outside while she was quietly falling apart inside. ● A Silent Thief: In Amy’s words, the illness stole her vitality, her joy, her clarity, and eventually her health. Her body was whispering long before it started shouting. ● The Line That Landed: Tired, foggy, gut playing up, running on empty, still spinning the plates. As Irene put it, that list is basically every woman over 40, which is exactly why this story travels well beyond ticks. Four Years of Being Told It Was Just Stress ● The Medical Maze: Four years, specialist after specialist, bloods, MRIs, colonoscopies, screenings. For the most part everything came back fine while Amy was visibly falling apart. ● The Punch in the Stomach: Some doctors landed on ‘you have two young kids and a busy life, maybe it’s just stress.’ For someone genuinely unwell, not being believed is its own kind of injury. ● The Great Imitator: Along the way she was handed different labels, including chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, and mast cell activation, because so many of the symptoms cut across so many conditions. Part of her also did not want to admit she was sick in her mid-thirties, so pushing through felt easier than stopping. Getting to the Diagnosis ● Where It Started: Late 2010. Amy was bitten by around forty tiny grass ticks after being in the ocean (they were so small the family first assumed sea lice), developed a bullseye rash and flu-like symptoms, and was told at the time that it could not be what she thought it was. ● Finding a Lyme-Literate Doctor: It took relentless persistence to find a doctor willing to investigate. Testing was done through Australian Biologics here, with further samples sent to a specialist lab overseas to build a fuller picture. ● More Than One Passenger: The results pointed to a strain of Borrelia plus co-infections. A thorough workup also picked up a reactivated Epstein-Barr virus (from a bout of glandular fever at twelve), a dormant cytomegalovirus that had switched back on, and a parasite. These opportunistic infections often ride along in complex chronic illness. Why Lyme Is So Contested in Australia ● Not Formally Recognised: Classic Lyme is well known overseas but poorly understood here, and doctors who diagnose and treat it can face professional scrutiny, which keeps the number of willing practitioners low. ● The Official Term: Authorities describe this patient group as having DSCATT, Debilitating Symptom Complexes Attributed to Ticks. Amy notes there can be around seventy-seven symptoms attributed to this kind of illness, which is why it is nicknamed the great imitator. ● The Cost Barrier: Because much of the specialist testing has to be sent overseas, with no Medicare rebate, it can run to several thousand dollars, precisely when many sufferers have had to give up work. The full clinical picture and current Australian position are in the Nerd Notes below. Ticks 101: What Every Australian Should Know ● Not Every Tick Carries Infection: Most tick bites, including the grass ticks that come off children, carry no infection at all. Amy’s situation was partly a numbers game: out of forty bites, it may have taken only one infected tick. ● Time Matters: It takes roughly thirty-six hours for an infection to take hold, so prompt, safe removal counts. ● Removal: Keep proper tweezers or a tick-freezing product at home if you live near the bush, or go straight to a GP to have it removed safely. Amy’s own first attempt (fully clothed in the bath, husband on tweezers) is not the recommended method. ● Alpha-Gal Is Different: A tick bite can also trigger alpha-gal syndrome, also called mammalian meat allergy, a serious allergic reaction to red meat. Unlike DSCATT, alpha-gal is well recognised and can be tested for on standard pathology. Amy’s Recovery and the MOJO Framework ● Antibiotics Were a Start, Not the Whole Story: Early on, a few brave doctors prescribed milder antibiotics such as doxycycline based on the clinical picture; after formal diagnosis she was able to access IV antibiotics. But killing the infection begged a bigger question: why did it take hold in the first place? ● It Was the Terrain: Amy traces it to the ground the illness grew in: a mouldy house plus a genetic sensitivity to mould, chronic unadmitted stress, a sick child, and years of broken sleep. Around twenty to thirty percent of people go on to develop chronic Lyme, and terrain is a big part of why. ● The MOJO Framework: Out of all of it came four pillars. Mindset (nervous-system work through hypnotherapy and EFT). Oxygenation (gentle detox, movement, clean products, reducing EMF load, her Oura Ring for feedback). Optimisation (good food, a healthy gut microbiome, the foundations Lee lives and breathes). And Joy, which when you are bedbound can be as small as the dog and a good friend. The magic, she says, is stacking them: a walk by the ocean with the dog covers several at once. ● Drainage Before Detox: A cautionary tale. Amy once threw herself into a big detox program in Cyprus and ended up in hospital, because she had not opened her drainage and lymphatic pathways first. Detoxing too hard, too fast can flood a body that is not ready. Order matters. Advocating for Yourself, and Parenting Through It ● Trust the Intuition: Amy’s first step is listening to that inner signal that something is off, and refusing to override it. ● Bring Receipts: Keep a written record of symptoms and timings. You are far less likely to be waved away when you arrive with facts in hand. ● Get More Opinions, and Be Relentless: If an opinion does not sit right, seek another. As Amy puts it, no one will advocate for your body better than you will. Lee’s take: every woman should get a pre-printed fortieth-birthday card that reads ‘advocate for yourself and get multiple opinions.’ ● Present, Not Perfect: On mothering through an invisible illness, Amy’s message to guilt-ridden mums is that there is no such thing as a perfect mother, only a present one. Prioritising yourself teaches your children that they matter too. Her own kids came out of it more empathetic, more tuned in to their bodies, and better at honest conversation. Where to Find Amy ● Living Mojo: livingmojo.com.au, with coaching programs, a newsletter full of free recipes, and a free three-day Mojo Reboot that works for anyone wanting a reset, not just those managing chronic illness. ● The Book: Amy’s first book, Back from the Brink: How to Get Your Mojo Back, is a memoir and self-help guide in one. It shares her Mojo Method recovery blueprint (w
Jul 21

Episode 16: Has Reformer Pilates Eaten Yoga? Kate Kendall Settles It and We Talk GLP1s.

This week’s guest has an answer for that, and it is not the one anyone expects. Kate Kendall has been teaching yoga in Australia for over two decades. She is the co-founder of Flow Athletic in Sydney, the author of Life in Flow, and the woman behind Active Yogi, and she walks into the cabin with a story that starts with vanity, ends with purpose, and includes one of Lee’s spookier intuitive premonitions along the way. Together they cover what yoga is actually doing to the nervous system, whether reformer Pilates has eaten yoga, why meditation is not supposed to feel blissful, and the idea Kate has built her whole philosophy around: the space between. In Womansplain, Justin arrives with the most 2026 question possible. GLP-1s. What are they, do they actually work for cravings, and should he be anywhere near them? Lee gives him the straight, mechanism-first answer, plus the warning about where not to buy them. And Irene has a rave. It is about Lee. She would like everyone to know that listening to this podcast is the closest thing to having a private nutritionist in your pocket, and she is the proof. ✨ In this episode we chat about: • Irene’s birthday box that sold out in twenty minutes, and why she has still got it. • How Kate went from a digital agency desk to her first yoga class in North Bondi, arriving for vanity and staying for the mental gold. • The teacher who handed Kate a permission slip to teach, and later told her opening Flow Athletic was a mistake. • Vagus nerve stimulation for beginners: gargling, singing in the shower, and humming bee breath. • Yoga nidra, the lying-down practice the wellness world has rebranded as NSDR, and why it might be the perfect entry point for people who cannot sit still. • What it actually means to be an active yogi, and why having all the gear is not the same as having a practice. • Has reformer Pilates eaten yoga? Kate saw the wave coming from inside her own studio. • What yoga is really doing to the body: fascia, the nervous system, and why the yogis were the original biohackers. • Why meditation is not meant to be blissful, and the ocean-and-air-bubble way to think about intrusive thoughts. • The space between: the philosophy Kate built from the pause at the bottom of an exhale. • Kate’s reframe that changes everything for Irene: what feels like boredom in stillness might actually be withdrawal. • Justin’s Womansplain question on GLP-1s: what they are, who they genuinely help, and what to do before considering one. • Irene’s rave, which is, for once, entirely about her co-host. 🎙 What’s Popping: Kate Kendall on Yoga, Meditation and the Space Between Meet Kate: Kate Kendall has been teaching yoga for over twenty years. She co-founded Flow Athletic in Sydney with her business partner Ben, which they sold last year, wrote the book Life in Flow, and now writes, teaches, and mentors under the name Active Yogi. Lee and Kate go way back: Kate reached out after reading one of Lee’s books, invited her into the studio to speak, and later swore by the gut healing protocol, which she still recommends to people today. The Premonition: Years ago, in full intuitive flight, Lee told Kate she was going to have a little girl, when it would happen, and the letter her name would begin with. Kate’s daughter Alice is now seven. Nobody in the cabin has a rational explanation and nobody is looking for one. Came for Vanity, Stayed for the Mental Gold: Kate is honest about where it started. She was working in a digital agency in the city, depressed, medicated, and about a decade into an eating disorder that had begun in her teens, when she walked into her first class at the Dharma Shala in North Bondi wanting long, lean limbs. She fumbled through it feeling like a baby elephant on a mat, then lay down in savasana and felt present for the first time since childhood. Walking home along the promenade that night, she stopped and cried, grief, she says, for all the times she had not let herself feel. She went back, and kept going back. The Permission Slip: Kate’s teacher Rick stopped her at the bus stop one evening and told her she would make a really great yoga teacher. She describes it as a permission slip she did not know she needed. She trained in India, started teaching, and years later the same teacher, a purist, told her that opening a combined yoga and fitness studio was a mistake. She respected the opinion and did it anyway, riding the exact crest of yoga’s popularity wave when Flow Athletic opened. Irene, the Beginner With All the Gear The Confession: Irene wants nothing more than to be a cool yoga mum. She has the mat, the outfits, the tracker, everything required to be a professional yogi except an actual practice. She has been to classes, felt good afterwards, and never caught the thing Kate is describing, the healthy addiction. The Vagus Nerve (or, as Irene Insists, the Vegas Nerve): The good news for anyone not ready for postures: the vagus nerve can be stimulated without a single downward dog. Gargling, singing in the shower, and humming bee breath all activate it, which is part of why these odd little habits leave people feeling calmer. Yoga Nidra and NSDR: The practice Irene did not know she was looking for. Yoga nidra involves lying down for twenty to forty minutes while a voice guides you systematically through the body, relaxing it so deeply that brain waves slow right down. The trick is not to fall asleep. The wellness world has rebranded it as NSDR, non-sleep deep rest, but it is yoga nidra, it is ancient, and guided sessions are freely available on apps like Insight Timer. Research also suggests doing it after a day of learning helps the brain retain information. What Makes a Yogi: For Kate, a yogi is not someone with all the equipment. A yogi is someone who endeavours to practise presence. She knows people who have never stepped on a mat whom she would call yogis, because of how present they are with the person in front of them. Irene concedes this is precisely her problem: all the gear, and a daily failure at being present. The Active Yogi Philosophy Living It Off the Mat: Kate is blunt that there is a lot of fake yoga around: the gear, the green smoothies, the aesthetics, with the point entirely missed. An active yogi is someone actively living their yoga off the mat. For Kate that means presence, lifestyle, and above all service. Before every project, including this podcast, she checks in with herself: am I doing this to look good, or to be of service? Irene’s Duality: Irene owns hers openly. Half of her is the purist who lives a genuinely toxin-free existence, and the other half loves every bell and whistle the commercial wellness industry has to offer. She suspects the second half disqualifies her from true yogi status. Kate is not so sure, and points out Irene is probably living more of it than she thinks. Has Reformer Pilates Eaten Yoga? The View From Inside: Kate watched the Pilates wave arrive from inside her own studio about five years ago. Flow already offered reformer Pilates in a small room, outgrew it almost immediately, and ended up hiding reformer beds behind a curtain in the yoga room. She is candid that like every wellness trend, she half expects the moment it dies and leaves everyone holding very expensive beds. Why Trends Turn: Kate and her business partner used to try to predict the turns and eventually gave up. Trends are a mystery. What she does observe is that yoga is the thing people always circle back to, it has been around for thousands of years, while Pilates is currently offering strength to a huge number of women who would never otherwise have found strength training. Breath work, meanwhile, is having its own hot moment, which Kate reads as a sign of the times: another doorway into nervous system regulation for people who will never sit on a meditation cushion. What Yoga Is Actually Doing to the Body The Original Biohackers: Kate returns to her first class and asks what actually cracked her open that night. The answer is a stack of things: the breath, the way the body moves and the joints stack, and the tending of fascia, the connective tissue she describes as a superhighway of information. The yogis, she says, were the original biohackers. They knew that putting the body in certain shapes and breathing in certain ways created a desired outcome, and the science is only now catching up. The Body Stone: Her name for the state at the end of a good class: the whole body relaxed, the mind sharp. Lee, a yoga teacher herself, adds the feeling that every cell has new energy, and makes the case for keeping the practice simple and honest rather than tricked-up and competitive, a direction she thinks parts of the yoga scene have drifted over the last fifteen years. Poses of Note: Kate’s long-time favourite is pigeon, the great hip opener and, per some schools of thought, the pose most likely to produce an unexpected cry, since the hips are said to hold stored emotion. Lately she is loving wheel, which demands prepared shoulders and hip flexors. For absolute beginners, her pick is cat cow: all fours, hands under shoulders, knees under hips, moving the spine through flexion and extension, exactly the way a cat does, because cats know. Volunteer Yoga at Whale Beach: Lee mentions filling in at the volunteer class she supports at Whale Beach Surf Club, average age seventy plus, taught entirely by feel with no set list. Kate’s eighty-three-year-old mum still practises weekly with her own teacher in the country. The point lands itself: this is a practice for every age. Meditation Without the Mystique Resistance Is Normal: Kate resists meditation some days too. Her meditation teacher Jackie, of The Broad Place, tells a story about reporting to her own teacher. A blissful sit: good. A choppy, horrible, unfocused sit: also good. The point of meditation is not what comes up. The point is the willingne
Jul 15

Episode 15: Why Trying Harder to Sleep Is Keeping You Awake, with Sleep Psychologist Dr. Amelia Scott.

This week’s guest could not be more fitting. Dr. Amelia Scott is a clinical psychologist, sleep researcher, and the founder of Circa Sleep, and she walks Lee and Irene through something both hosts have lived but never had language for: the cycle of insomnia and sleep anxiety. There is a deep dive into CBTI, the gold standard treatment that almost nobody outside the field has heard of, a fairly memorable conversation about Irene’s Oura ring, and a genuinely useful explanation of why trying harder to sleep is usually the very thing that stops it from happening. In Womansplain, Justin returns with a question prompted by a mate’s offhand comment about low testosterone, and gets the full lifestyle-first rundown before anyone mentions a prescription. And Lee has a rave. For walking. Yes, walking. She makes a very good case. ✨ In this episode we chat about: • Why the show is now officially The Lee and Irene Show. • Dr. Amelia Scott’s path into sleep psychology, and why insomnia is barely covered in clinical training despite being the second most common mental health condition. • What insomnia actually is, clinically, and why it is rarely a standalone problem. • The anxiety-sleeplessness cycle, and the behavioural loops that quietly keep it going. • Why waking at 3am is normal, and what is actually happening in the brain when it happens. • Sleep trackers, the Oura ring, and the nocebo effect of a bad sleep score. • CBTI (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy for Insomnia) and the counterintuitive logic of sleep restriction therapy. • Tired versus sleepy, a distinction that reframes a lot of chronic fatigue conversations. • Perimenopause, burnout, and why these seasons make sleep especially vulnerable. • What the evidence actually says about magnesium, kava, and ashwagandha for sleep. • Justin’s Womansplain question on low testosterone, sleep, stress, and what to check before TRT. • Lee’s rave on walking, and why she thinks it is finally getting the respect it deserves. 🎙 What’s Popping: Dr. Amelia Scott on the Cycle of Insomnia Meet Amelia: Dr. Amelia Scott is a clinical psychologist with a PhD in clinical psychology completed in 2019, a lecturer, board-approved clinical supervisor, and founder of Circa Sleep, a practice built around evidence-based psychological support for people stuck in poor sleep. Despite insomnia being the second most common mental health condition, Amelia had zero hours of sleep-specific training in her undergraduate or master’s degree, and built her specialisation through additional training and research after noticing how often it showed up, untreated, in her early patients. Who She Sees: Amelia describes a patient with insomnia and nothing else going on, no anxiety, no past trauma, no health conditions, no perimenopause, as a unicorn. Most people she sees have insomnia layered on top of life transitions, burnout, anxiety, chronic pain, or nervous system patterns shaped by past experience. What Insomnia Actually Is: Clinically, insomnia means difficulty falling or staying asleep that is not attributable to a substance or medication (so caffeine at 10pm does not count), has persisted over time, and is causing distress or interfering with daily functioning. It is what Amelia calls a twenty-four hour problem, not something contained to the night. The Cycles That Keep Insomnia Going The Anxiety-Sleeplessness Loop: Stress or anxiety disrupts sleep, poor sleep increases anxiety about the next night, and that anxiety becomes the very thing blocking sleep. Irene immediately recognises this as her own 3am loop, lying awake running through a mental list of business worries that, by her own admission, usually resolve themselves by morning. Behavioural Cycles: Compensating for a bad night with extra coffee, sleeping in, or a long restorative nap can unintentionally reduce the likelihood of sleeping well the following night. Amelia notes there is no universal rule on napping. For some people it disrupts the next night’s sleep; for others with severe insomnia, napping simply is not accessible at all. Why 3am Specifically: Waking overnight is completely normal. The issue is becoming consciously aware of it and the brain immediately flagging it as a problem, which fires up the nervous system and makes returning to sleep harder. Amelia also references new research on a phenomenon called the mind after midnight, where the brain’s threat-detection systems are unusually active while the prefrontal cortex, responsible for rational thought, is offline, making night-time worries feel far more catastrophic than they would in daylight. Sleep Trackers and the Nocebo Effect The Oura Ring Thread: Irene’s Oura ring becomes a running thread through the conversation. Amelia explains that trackers can be a helpful nudge for people who are genuinely neglecting their sleep, but for people who already have a strained relationship with sleep, they can erode trust in the body’s own ability to rest. Several sleep score metrics, including how much deep or REM sleep someone gets, are largely outside conscious control. The Nocebo Effect: In studies where participants were randomly told their sleep was either good or bad regardless of actual sleep quality, those given negative feedback reported feeling more tired and cancelled more plans, while those given positive feedback functioned better, demonstrating how strongly expectation alone can shape the next day. Can You Sleep Too Much?: Once health and lifestyle confounders are properly accounted for, the data linking short sleep or long sleep to early mortality weakens considerably, and Amelia is candid that a lot of the alarming headlines come from people with something to sell. CBTI and Sleep Restriction Therapy The Gold Standard: CBTI, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy for Insomnia, is supported by more than 200 clinical trials and is considered the first-line treatment for insomnia, ahead of medication. It targets the thinking patterns and habits that keep insomnia entrenched long after the original trigger has passed. Sleep Pressure: The longer someone stays awake, the more sleep pressure builds, making sleep more likely. People with insomnia often go to bed too early after a bad night, before enough sleep pressure has built up, and end up putting aside far more time for sleep than they are actually using, lowering their sleep efficiency. The Counterintuitive Fix: The treatment involves temporarily restricting time in bed to match actual average sleep (tracked via a sleep diary) more closely, which raises sleep efficiency and, over time, allows sleep duration to be gradually extended again. Effort Is the Enemy: One of Amelia’s clearest points: trying hard to fall back asleep is usually counterproductive. Good sleepers, when asked what they do to sleep well, typically say not very much. They simply get into bed when sleepy and let it happen. Tired Versus Sleepy Amelia draws a distinction that lands hard with both hosts. Tiredness, exhaustion, and a sense of depletion can have many causes: dietary, inflammatory, psychological, or trauma-related. Sleepiness is specifically about how likely someone is to fall asleep right now. People with chronic insomnia are very often tired but not sleepy, which explains why bloodwork and standard medical tests can come back clear even when someone feels constantly depleted. Perimenopause, Burnout, and Sleep Hormonal Shifts: The decline in oestrogen during perimenopause is closely linked to sleep disturbance, compounded by vasomotor symptoms like night sweats and hot flushes, layered on top of caregiving responsibilities for both ageing parents and adolescent children. Roll With It Rather Than Battle It: Amelia’s guidance is to avoid treating every disrupted night as a crisis to be won or lost. The two hours of lost sleep matter less than the hours spent tossing, turning, and catastrophising about the next day. Burnout Insomnia: Burnout requires rest, not just sleep. Amelia notes that people prone to burnout have often internalised the belief that rest must be earned through productivity, a hangover from hustle culture that both hosts and Justin recognise instantly from their own corporate pasts. What the Evidence Actually Says About Sleep Supplements Magnesium: Randomised, placebo-controlled trials generally show little difference between magnesium and placebo for sleep, though Amelia notes there may be a smaller subgroup with a genuine deficiency for whom it is meaningfully helpful, and that ritual and conditioning likely play a real role even when the mechanism is not purely pharmacological. Kava: Acts as a central nervous system depressant with effects similar to alcohol, including reduced anxiety and relaxation, but has been linked to serious liver damage in some cases and is not recommended for long-term use. Ashwagandha: Some signal for mild anxiolytic and sedating properties in recent meta-analyses, though the evidence base is still developing. L-theanine and Magnesium Combined: Amelia flags promising emerging research on this combination specifically. Sleep Hygiene: Useful as a foundation, but most people who seek Amelia’s help are already doing it well, sometimes too well, using it as an attempt to control something that ultimately cannot be controlled through effort alone. 🧠 Womansplain: Justin and the Low Testosterone Question The Question: A mate told Justin his flat energy, low motivation, and poor sleep might point to low testosterone, and suggested getting levels checked with TRT in mind. Justin’s first instinct was to tell his friend to mind his own business, but brought the question to the show anyway. Busting the First Myth: Low testosterone is not simply an inevitable consequence of ageing requiring a prescription. There are genuine cases where testosterone replacement therapy is appropriate, but a long list of lifestyle factors should be examined first, and most of them
Jul 1

Episode 14: Lee Holmes Launches Her 12th Book “Eat to Heal”, the Truth About Chronic Inflammation and Zombie Cells, and Justin Gets 'Splained on Low Testosterone.

Show Notes: Episode 14 The Lee and Irene Show Lee Holmes Launches Her 12th Book “Eat to Heal”, the Truth About Chronic Inflammation and Zombie Cells, and Justin Gets 'Splained on Low Testosterone. Lee has written twelve books, and this one might be the most personal yet. Eat to Heal is about chronic inflammation, the slow-burning, mostly invisible process that Lee argues sits underneath almost every major health complaint we hear about on this show, from brain fog and fatigue to autoimmune conditions and weight gain that will not budge. Irene turns interviewer for the episode and gets Lee talking about the book's origin, the science she found genuinely surprising even after fifteen years in the field, and the very practical plate-based system she built to make all of it usable on a Tuesday night. There are zombie cells. There is a Pac-Man analogy. There is a rocky road recipe that somehow counts as part of the plan. And underneath all of it, there is a much bigger conversation about trauma, nervous system safety, and why some people cannot absorb good nutrition until their body believes it is no longer in danger. And in Womansplain, Justin brings a question he was clearly nervous to ask, about whether low testosterone is just something that happens with age, or something worth actually investigating first. ✨ In this episode we chat about: • Why Lee wrote Eat to Heal, and the sentence in the introduction she is most proud of. • What chronic inflammation actually is, and why it behaves so differently to the acute kind. • Zombie cells, otherwise known as senescent cells, and the everyday foods that help clear them. • The gut-brain link, neuroinflammation, and why low mood is not always a purely psychological problem. • SPMs, specialised pro-resolving mediators, and why omega 3s do more than just block inflammation. • The 4321 plate method Lee developed specifically for an anti-inflammatory Mediterranean style of eating. • Why trauma and chronic stress can keep the body locked in a state where healing cannot properly begin. • Two recipes from the book, talked through ingredient by ingredient. • Justin's Womansplain question about low testosterone, and what is actually worth investigating before TRT. 📖 What's Popping: Lee Launches Eat to Heal Book Number Twelve: Lee confirms it, slightly disbelieving herself, while Irene recalls the period a few years ago when Lee went fully underground to finish a manuscript and could not be reached for weeks. Irene admits she has always wanted to write a book herself, though she suspects hers would mostly be an expose of bad business dealings she could not possibly publish without being sued. How Lee Actually Writes a Book: Lee describes it less as a plan and more as a pull. The ideas tend to arrive fully formed, sometimes within an hour of sitting down, and she credits a kind of instinctive, almost esoteric drive that has carried every one of her twelve books. The advice for anyone wanting to start is simple. Write towards something you genuinely care about, because that is the only thing that gets you through the difficult stretch in the middle. The Cover: Unusually for Lee, she is not on the cover this time. The illustration is by a Swedish artist named Sarah, and both hosts land on the same description without quite planning to. It has the feeling of a vintage still life, fruit bowls and tea towels and faded kitchen wallpaper. Nostalgic, bohemian, and instantly homely. What Eat to Heal Is Actually About The Premise: Chronic inflammation, Lee argues, is not a side effect of conditions like heart disease, Alzheimer's, autoimmune disorders, depression, weight gain, brain fog, and persistent fatigue. It is a driver of them. Chapter one is titled Your Kitchen Is Your Medicine Cabinet, and that is the thesis of the entire book. Who It Is For: Lee wrote it for the person who has been told their bloodwork is normal while their body insists otherwise. Irene relates to this directly. Her own results consistently come back clear, and the book gives her a next step beyond simply ruling things out: what can actually be done to reduce brain fog and lift energy once the medical all-clear has already been given. Acute Versus Chronic: Acute inflammation is the immune system doing exactly what it should, the redness and swelling around a cut that signals healing is underway. Chronic inflammation is that same emergency response stuck in the on position, running quietly in the background with no specific threat to respond to. Because it is subtle, most people never connect how they feel to what is actually happening in their body. Signs to Watch For: Persistent tiredness that sleep does not fix, brain fog, forgetfulness, digestive issues that come and go, post-meal fatigue, mood swings, migrating joint pain, recurring infections, and stalled weight loss. The book includes a sixteen question self-assessment quiz that scores inflammation as low, moderate, high, or severe. The Research That Surprised Lee Zombie Cells: The scientific term is senescent cells, cells that have stopped functioning properly but refuse to die, sitting in tissue and releasing inflammatory signals that disrupt the healthy cells around them. As we age, these accumulate. Certain plant compounds act as natural senolytics, helping clear them out: fisetin in strawberries and apples, quercetin in capers, onions, and berries, and curcumin in turmeric. Neuroinflammation: Chronic inflammation does not stay contained to the body. The same inflammatory markers linked to heart disease are implicated in depression, anxiety, cognitive decline, and conditions like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. One mechanism involves a compound called kynurenine. When inflammation is high, the body diverts tryptophan toward kynurenine production rather than serotonin, meaning less of the body's own feel-good chemistry gets made. Irene shares that she was diagnosed with neuroinflammation at a holistic clinic in Byron Bay following the collapse of her previous business, alongside a SIBO diagnosis. SPMs, the Pro-Resolution Compounds: Specialised pro-resolving mediators are a newer area of research that changed how Lee thinks about anti-inflammatory eating altogether. Rather than simply blocking inflammation the way something like ibuprofen does, SPMs actively promote the clearance of inflammatory debris and help return the body to balance. They are produced from omega 3 fatty acids, found in flaxseed, avocado, and good quality fish, strengthening the case for getting enough omega 3 into the diet. The 4321 Map Approach Lee built on the proven foundation of the Mediterranean diet and refined it specifically to target inflammation, with a stronger emphasis on gut health and blood sugar stability. The plate breaks down as 40 percent vegetables and leafy greens, 30 percent lean protein including legumes, 20 percent whole grains and starchy vegetables like sweet potato and pumpkin, and 10 percent healthy fats such as extra virgin olive oil, flaxseed oil, and avocado. The philosophy is not about eliminating treats. Even dessert can fit the framework when it includes protein and good fats alongside it, which is how a rocky road bar loaded with almonds, hemp seeds, and almond butter earns a legitimate place in the book. Two Recipes from the Book Baked Sweet Potato Hash Browns (page 156): Sweet potato for beta carotene and skin support, chickpea flour for plant protein and fibre, turmeric and cumin for their anti-inflammatory properties, smashed avocado for monounsaturated fats and potassium, and a microgreen salad on top finished with hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, or walnuts. Buckwheat Banana Crepes with Figs and Berries (page 159): Naturally gluten free, built on ripe banana for gut-friendly resistant starch and buckwheat flour, which contains rutin to strengthen blood vessels. Topped with fresh figs and berries for polyphenols and prebiotic fibre, plus a nut butter for additional healthy fats. Light enough for breakfast, indulgent enough for dessert. Enjoy my Mediterranean Mezze Plate recipe here. Trauma, the Nervous System, and Why Healing Is Not Linear One of the book's central themes is the link between trauma, chronic stress, and inflammation. Lee explains that when the nervous system stays locked in survival mode, the body prioritises protection over repair. Digestive secretions change, gut motility slows or becomes erratic, the gut lining becomes more vulnerable to damage, and the immune system grows hyper-reactive, feeding the inflammatory cycle further. Irene connects this directly to her own experience following the collapse of her previous business, describing a period of constant hypervigilance where even opening an email triggered a physical stress response. Lee shares a parallel experience following a serious car accident and a long bout of COVID, both of which left her nervous system similarly on high alert. Lee's clinical approach has shifted accordingly. Rather than leading with food alone, she now looks at the whole person, gut health, inflammation, sleep, stress, emotional history, and daily patterns together, often alongside referral to psychologists or nervous system specialists. She notes that healing rarely happens in a tidy order. Sometimes mood and sleep improve before digestion does, and that is not a failure of the process. 🧠 Womansplain: Justin and the Low Testosterone Question The Question: A friend suggested to Justin that his flat energy, low motivation, and poor sleep might point to low testosterone, and floated testosterone replacement therapy as a fix. Justin's instinct was to tell his mate to mind his own business, but brought the question to the show anyway. The Myth to Bust First: Low testosterone is not simply an inevitable part of ageing with a prescription as the automatic answer. There i
Jun 24

Episode 13, Naturopath Jane Papalia on the Mediterranean Diet, Longevity, Beauty, and Why Your Nonna Was Probably Right All Along, Wayne Gets ‘Splained on Reflux and Irene Busts Out a Rant

Episode 13, Naturopath Jane Papalia on the Mediterranean Diet, Longevity, Beauty, and Why Your Nonna Was Probably Right All Along, Wayne Gets ‘Splained on Reflux and Irene Busts Out a Rant In this episode we chat about · What the Mediterranean diet actually is, and why it is much more than a Greek salad and a glass of red wine. · Jane Papalia’s story, from Italian family food culture to naturopathy and clinical nutrition. · Why the Mediterranean lifestyle is one of the most researched and respected dietary patterns in the world. · How food, movement, sleep, stress, and social connection all work together for longevity. · Why olive oil, legumes, herbs, seasonal produce, and quality proteins are the real stars of the show. · How to spot the difference between authentic Mediterranean foods and supermarket imposters with suspiciously confident branding. · Why your grandmother may have been ahead of her time without ever using the words polyphenols or microbiome. · How the Mediterranean way of eating supports gut health, brain health, heart health, and healthy ageing. · Why food is not just fuel. It is culture, connection, rhythm, and joy. · A very important debate about yoghurt, feta, olive oil, and whether Italians are secretly running the wellness industry Meet Jane Papalia Jane Papalia is a qualified naturopath and clinical nutritionist, and the beautiful mind behind The Mediterranean Naturopath. Her work centers on the Mediterranean lifestyle as a way of eating and living that supports health, energy, digestion, beauty, and ageing well without turning life into a never-ending self-improvement project. Jane grew up in a very food-focused Italian family, where her Sicilian grandmother shaped the way food, family, and nourishment were understood long before anyone in the household was talking about anti-inflammatory diets, gut health, or longevity science. In Jane’s world, food was never just calories. It was care, connection, culture, and the kind of love that arrives in a saucepan. She brings that lived experience together with her clinical work in a way that feels both practical and deeply grounded. The result is a philosophy that feels refreshingly sane. Eat well, move your body, share meals, and stop trying to bio hack your way out of being human. Her journey Jane shares how her mother’s cancer diagnosis became a turning point in her understanding of health. That experience deepened her appreciation for the fact that wellbeing is built through the everyday things. How we eat, sleep, move, connect, and support the body consistently over time. It’s a powerful reminder that health is not one perfect supplement stack or one heroic clean-out Monday. It’s the pattern of your life. It’s the stuff you do when nobody is applauding. It’s also the thing your grandmother probably knew instinctively while everyone else was making turmeric lattes and calling it wisdom. Jane’s perspective is gentle, real, and refreshingly free of extremes. She reminds us that the body responds to consistency, not punishment. What Mediterranean means If your version of the Mediterranean diet is basically olives, pasta, and one highly committed bottle of red wine, then this episode broadens the picture beautifully. Jane explains that the Mediterranean way of eating is built around: · colourful plant foods · extra virgin olive oil · legumes · whole grains · seafood · quality proteins · herbs · fermented foods · seasonal produce. But it’s also about how you eat. Slower meals, social connection, family, rhythm, and a less frantic relationship with food are all part of the picture. This is not a restrictive plan. It’s a living pattern. And unlike many wellness trends, it does not require a label printer, a subscription box, or a complete personality transplant. Why it matters Jane talks through why the Mediterranean dietary pattern is so strongly associated with better health outcomes. It’s not because of one magical ingredient. It’s because the whole pattern works together. The benefits discussed include: · improved digestion · better blood sugar regulation · heart health · brain health · cognitive support · healthier ageing Because this way of eating is rich in fibre, plant diversity, healthy fats, and antioxidant compounds, it also nourishes the gut microbiome, which then has downstream effects on mood, immunity, inflammation, and resilience. So yes, the humble lentil is doing some very glamorous work behind the scenes. The longevity piece One of the strongest themes in the episode is that longevity is not just about nutrients. It’s also about social connection. Jane talks about how family, friendship, community, and meals shared with other people all play a measurable role in wellbeing. That’s part of what makes the Mediterranean lifestyle so powerful. It supports the body and the nervous system at the same time. Meals are not rushed. Food is not eaten in isolation while scrolling. There is a rhythm, a social thread, and a sense that life is meant to be lived with other people around the table. Which is lovely, and also mildly insulting to the modern habit of inhaling lunch between emails. Olive oil and polyphenols Jane explains why extra virgin olive oil is one of the standout foods in the Mediterranean pattern. It’s rich in polyphenols, including hydroxytyrosol, which contributes to the anti-inflammatory and antioxidant benefits associated with the diet. Extra virgin olive oil is mechanically pressed and retains more of its beneficial compounds than refined olive oils. It brings flavour, protection, and a bit of actual joy to food, which, frankly, is more than can be said for many healthy products. There’s also a useful clarification around cooking. Yes, olive oil can absolutely be used in cooking, especially at moderate temperatures. So no, your family did not accidentally sabotage their health by cooking with olive oil for decades. They may have been onto something. The food detective bit There’s a very entertaining stretch of the episode where the conversation turns into a full supermarket investigation. You’ll hear about: · how to identify proper Greek yoghurt · what makes a feta authentic · why ingredient lists matter · and how to tell when a product is only pretending to be Mediterranean The yoghurt rule is beautifully simple. Fewer ingredients usually means better quality. If the label starts sounding like a laboratory internship, it may not be the product you want And feta? Also a bit of a minefield. The conversation makes it very clear that not all feta is equal, and that the version in the supermarket may be a cheese impersonator with a Mediterranean accent Herbs and flavour Jane brings a lovely herbal lens to the discussion, highlighting the medicinal and culinary value of: · oregano · rosemary · thyme · sage · fennel · lemon balm These herbs are not just decorative little green bits trying to look sophisticated on a plate. They have real digestive, cognitive, hormonal, and calming benefits. Rosemary is linked with memory and circulation, sage is often used in the context of hormonal support, and fennel and lemon balm are especially lovely for digestion and nervous system support. It’s a reminder that the food culture of the Mediterranean is rich in flavour and function at the same time. Which is a very nice trick. A Mediterranean day · One of the best things about this episode is how practical it becomes. · Jane outlines a real-life Mediterranean-style day: · Breakfast might be Greek yoghurt with berries, nuts, and honey. · Lunch might be lentil soup, minestrone, roasted vegetables, or chickpeas. · Snacks might include nuts, grapes, or vine leaves. · Dinner might feature oily fish like salmon, mackerel, sardines, or anchovies, alongside vegetables and legumes. · The message is simple. This is not a diet that depends on fussy recipes or expensive health-store ingredients. It depends on real food, prepared well, and eaten regularly. · Soup is also having a very good moment here and should be recognised accordingly. Womansplain In our Womansplain segment, we bring a very confused man into the cabin and extract a question that is relevant, useful, and just the right amount of chaotic. This episode’s Womansplain focuses on midlife digestive changes, particularly reflux, heaviness after meals, and that general sense that your body has suddenly decided to become more opinionated about dinner. Lee shares practical advice around: · eating earlier in the evening · slowing down at meals · reducing trigger foods where needed · being mindful of portion size · not lying down immediately after eating · paying attention to hydration and alcohol intake The overall message is beautifully boring in the best possible way. The basics matter, especially when digestion becomes less forgiving with age. Irene’s rave In Irene’s rave, Irene gives a big and heartfelt shout-out to the Clean + Conscious Awards, celebrating brands and products that are doing things more thoughtfully. It’s a lovely reminder that wellness doesn’t just live in our kitchens and clinics. It also shows up in the products we choose, the businesses we support, and the standards we keep asking for as consumers. This rave captures that very satisfying feeling of seeing more people care about clean, ethica
Jun 16

Episode 12 All Hail the Sugar and Energy Queen Michele Chevalley-Hedge, and the Labels That Are Lying to You, Justin Finally Learns to Breathe, and Lee’s Rant on the Fillers Nobody Warned You About.

Episode 12: All hail the Sugar and Energy Queen Michele Chevalley-Hedge, and the Labels That Are Lying to You, Justin Finally Learns to Breathe, and Lee’s Rant on the Fillers Nobody Warned You About. If you’ve ever eaten clean all day and still crashed by 3pm, reached for something sweet and felt worse an hour later, or picked up a “healthy” snack and had absolutely no idea what half the ingredients actually were, this episode is for you. Michele Chevalley-Hedge from A Healthy View, is a clinical nutritionist, author, and health educator whose books include Beating Sugar Addiction for Dummies and Eat, Drink and Still Shrink. She has spent decades working across elite sport, corporate health, and school communities, and she brings the same principle to all of it: facts over fads, nourished not punished. Justin, meanwhile, has been breathing incorrectly for roughly 59 years. Lee and Irene fix that. And Lee has a rant. It has a title. It is called Fillers That Fool Us, and once you hear it, you will never look at a supplement label the same way again. ✨ In this episode we chat about: 🍬 What’s Popping: Sugar, Energy and the Labels That Are Lying to You Meet Michele • A New Yorker in Australia: Michele grew up in an Italian-American family where food was love, community, and connection. Her father was a dedicated gardener. Her mother’s side was, in her words, the Chickarello Mafia, six sisters cooking abundantly for 27 cousins every weekend. She came to Australia in 1990 to speak at an IBM conference, fell in love with an Australian man within 24 hours, and never left. Thirty-six years later, she is still certain she made the right call. • From IT to Nutritional Medicine: Michele originally studied technology, business, and education, and worked in the IT industry before retraining. After her third child, she returned to study medicine and found her direction in her first nutritional medicine class, an emerging field at the time with relatively little evidence-based research. She recognised the opportunity and stayed. • The Modern Nutritionist: Michele describes herself as the nutritionist who loves a little coffee, wine, and chocolate. Her business is called A Healthy View for a reason: no extremes, no punishment, no all-or-nothing thinking. Sugar 101: What’s Actually Going On • The problem is added sugar, not natural sugar: Natural sugars found in dairy, fruit, and vegetables are not the concern. The issue is the added sugar hidden in foods that look, and are marketed as, healthy. • The recommended maximum is 6 teaspoons of added sugar per day. Most Australians consume 36 or more. Michele’s analogy: if you took 6 times the recommended dose of any pharmaceutical drug every single day, there would be consequences. Sugar is no different. • What overconsumption actually does: Sustained excess sugar affects energy, cognitive function, neurological health, libido, mood, fertility, and sleep. These are not abstract risks — they are things Michele sees in clinical practice every week. Is Sugar Addiction Real? • Clinically, it acts like one. It is not classified as an addiction in the same way drugs are, but it produces a dopamine feedback loop that drives repeated behaviour. The mechanism is hormonal, not just psychological. • The good news: the palate can be reset. Small, consistent changes, without punishment or deprivation, are enough to shift the feedback loop over time. As the body begins to regulate more effectively, sleep improves, energy stabilises, mood lifts, and the improvements become more compelling than the sugar itself The Blood Sugar Roller Coaster: A Real Life Example • The morning: A chai latte from a cafe (8 to 10 teaspoons of added sugar) and a banana muffin (another 8 to 10 teaspoons). Two things that look healthy, with 15 to 20 teaspoons of sugar already on board before 9am. • The crash: Ninety minutes later: fatigue, brain fog, irritability. Not low iron. Not early menopause. A blood sugar crash. The higher the spike, the harder the fall. At the bottom of that fall is where hunger, mood dysfunction, and energy collapse live. • The cycle: The response to the crash is more coffee or more sugar, which starts the cycle again. By 3pm, after a salad lunch with no fat, protein, or smart carbs, the body is running on empty and reaching for anything it can find. • Every spike drives inflammation. And chronic inflammation is the underlying pathology in virtually every major disease — cardiovascular disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, Alzheimer’s, autoimmune conditions, depression, and more. The Gut-Brain Connection • Research from Deakin University’s Food and Mood Centre is producing world-class randomised controlled trials on food and mental health. The field is still in early stages, but the direction is clear. • Real whole foods support the gut microbiome, which in turn supports serotonin production, immune function, and cognitive performance. Fibre, diversity of plants, and the absence of ultra-processed ingredients are the primary levers. • The SMILES Trial: A landmark randomised controlled trial studying the effect of a real whole food diet on depression and anxiety. All foods in the study came from Coles and Woolworths. The results showed greater improvement in mood disorders than antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication alone. This is not a supplement. It is just eating real food. Sugar by Any Other Name • Sugar has at least 25 different names on ingredient labels, including agave, rice malt, brown rice syrup, evaporated cane juice, barley malt, dextrose, and fruit concentrate. If it sounds like a yoga retreat in Byron Bay, it is still metabolically sugar. • The label detective hack: Find the sugar number on any nutrition panel. Divide by four. That is approximately how many teaspoons of sugar the product contains. A can of Coca-Cola: 40 grams, 10 teaspoons. A ginger beer: 14 teaspoons. A commercial healthy smoothie: often 21 teaspoons of added sugar from concentrated fruit syrups. • If sugar appears in the first five ingredients, question the product. The placement on the label tells you how much of it is in there. Better Sweeteners, Worse Sweeteners • Natural sweeteners Michele supports: coconut sugar (low GI, contains inulin as a prebiotic), honey, dates, pure maple syrup (for its polyphenols and micronutrients). These come with context; fibre, nutrients, and a lower glycaemic impact than refined sugars. • Sugar alcohols (anything ending in ‘-ol’): Mannitol, sorbitol, erythritol, and others are used in sugar-free products to allow the “no sugar” claim. For people with sensitive digestion, these cause significant bloating, gas, and diarrhoea. Michele sees this regularly in school-age girls consuming sugar-free energy drinks. Even for people without obvious sensitivity, she recommends avoiding them. • Stevia and monk fruit: Michele’s preferred alternatives for those wanting sweetness without added sugar. Both have a reasonable safety profile and do not disrupt blood sugar. • Real Coke over Diet Coke: Michele and Lee are both on record: if it comes to a choice, the artificial sweeteners in diet drinks are more concerning than the sugar in the original. Aspartame has emerging research linking it to neurological effects. Neither endorses soft drink, but the message is to be more afraid of the synthetic substitutes than the sugar itself. What to Eat for Sustained Energy • Every meal should answer three questions: Where is the fat? Where is the protein? Where is the smart carb? This combination blunts blood sugar spikes, supports satiety, and keeps energy stable across the day. Michele’s term: no naked carbs. • Breakfast: Eggs with avocado and a good piece of bread or leftover roasted vegetables from dinner. Fat, protein, and smart carb in one bowl. Not a sugary muffin and a cafe chai. • Lunch: Ideally leftovers from the night before, with legumes or brown rice added for smart carb content. Simple, affordable, and effective. • Hydration first: Most people confuse hunger for thirst. Starting the day with water and staying hydrated throughout is a non-negotiable foundation for energy. Without it, everything else is harder. • Fast food navigation: Guzman y Gomez and Fishbowl are workable if you build your bowl with protein, fat, and smart carbs. Skip the chips from the fryer; have homemade chips in olive oil at home if you want them. Where to Find Michele • Michele’s clinical practice focuses on personalised nutritional medicine, including work with schools, corporate clients, and elite athletes. • Her books include Beating Sugar Addiction for Dummies, The Australian Healthy Hormone Diet, and Eat, Drink and Still Shrink. • Recommended peanut butter brands: Fix and Mayver’s (both available at major supermarkets). Look for products with one ingredient: peanuts. 🧠 Womansplain: Justin Finally Learns to Breathe • The Question: Justin has been shallow breathing through clenched teeth for, by his own estimate, most of his life. He knows from yoga that belly breathing is the goal. He does not always remember to do it. He wants practical instructions. Numbered, if possible. • Shallow chest breathing: Keeps the body in a low-grade stress state. The nervous system reads it as a signal that something is wrong, even when nothing is. The result is a constant, low-level sense of depletion that most people have simply accepted as normal. • Nasal breathing as default: The nose filters, warms, and humidifies
Jun 5

Episode 11: How to Get a Virgo Level of Cleaning on a Capricorn Budget, Justin Discovers Chiropractic, and Irene's Rave for the Customers Who Never Left. 🧹

Episode 11: How to Get a Virgo Level of Cleaning on a Capricorn Budget, Justin Discovers Chiropractic, and Irene's Rave for the Customers Who Never Left. 🧹 Lee's house is, by all objective measures, immaculate. Irene has been trying to understand this for some time. This week she finally asks. What follows is a practical, funny, and useful guide to low-tox cleaning, from the products worth trusting, to the rooms worth prioritising, to the surprising science of why a clean space makes your brain feel safe enough to relax. Justin, meanwhile, has concerns about chiropractors. Specifically, he is not convinced that cracking someone's back constitutes a qualification. Irene has recently seen one. Lee has done her research. Justin gets moved, just a little. And this week the cabin gets a visitor. Tiki, Lee’s friend and the kind of person who turns chaos into calm without appearing to do anything joins Lee and Irene with a question that will resonate with a lot of women: what do you do when you're eating well, you're moving, and nothing is shifting? And Irene has a rave. Not a rant this time. A genuine, heartfelt rave for the customers who found their way back. ✨ In this episode we chat about: 🧹 What's Popping: Virgo-Level Cleaning on a Capricorn Budget • The Cabin Observation: Irene has been to Lee's house almost every week and needs to put something on record. It is immaculate. Not in a Coco Republic showroom way. More like a genuinely-lived-in bohemian fisherman's cottage where every piece of furniture was sourced from a market or a street, and yet the whole thing somehow looks like a magazine. Irene is in awe. She is also terrified to put her coffee cup down. • The Virgo Confession: Lee is a Virgo. She cleans preventatively. Her house never requires a serious intervention because she never lets it get to one. She moonwalks across the kitchen floor in old socks to clean up after dinner. With the Michael Jackson Off the Wall album on. This is not a joke. • The Five-Star Review: Pia gives the show five stars and calls Lee and Irene a 'dynamic duo' who unravel the mixed messaging in wellness media while keeping things interesting, fun and educational. Lee jumps out of her pants. They have two reviews now. They want more. Why Conventional Cleaning Products Are the First Thing to Swap • The Toxin Load Argument: Irene makes a case that if you had to choose just one area of your life to detox, cleaning products would be it. You eat off the surfaces you clean. You breathe the fabrics you wash. Your children crawl on the floor you've just mopped. The synthetic fragrances, antibacterial agents, and endocrine disruptors don't disappear after cleaning, they stay on every surface in the home. • Indoor Air Quality: Studies have suggested that indoor air quality with certain conventional cleaning products can be as toxic as smoking in your home. Ventilation matters. The irony of making your house look beautiful while compromising the air in it is not lost on either of them. • Nicole Bijlsma, Building Biologist: Irene interviewed building biologist Nicole on her podcast over a decade ago. Two things have stayed with her: the number one way to stop toxins entering your house is to take your shoes off at the door (you're tracking glyphosate from footpaths inside), and the cleaning products you use on your surfaces are one of the biggest contributors to indoor toxic load. Nicole later created the cleaning range Abode What to Actually Look For in a Natural Cleaning Product • Cleaning Labels Are Less Regulated Than Cosmetics: Irene notes that regulatory standards for cleaning product labelling appear to be looser than for cosmetics. Brands may not be required to disclose whether fragrance is synthetic or natural. Brand trust matters more here than ingredient scanning. • The Basics to Avoid: Sulphates, parabens, and artificial fragrances are the starting point. But Irene goes further her banned ingredient list at Clean Nectarine extends to things like phenoxyethanol, which many other 'natural' stores still stock. • Plant and Mineral-Based: A useful filter, but not always sufficient on its own. Not all natural formulations perform well on every surface. Testing and brand reputation still matter. The Products Worth Trusting • Dr. Bronner's Castile Soap: Irene's starting recommendation for anyone transitioning away from conventional products or DIY lemon-and-vinegar. One product, multiple surfaces, naturally fragranced with essential oils. Use it on dishes, floors, even your dog. Available in one-litre bottles. A few drops mixed with water covers most of the home. • Ecostore: Available at Woolworths and Coles. Irene used to stock it in her first business. A solid natural range at accessible price points. • Abode: Irene considers this the benchmark for natural cleaning products in Australia. Fragrance-free options available. Was Irene's biggest seller to the Home and Away wardrobe department, whose cast members with eczema couldn't tolerate conventional detergents. Affordable. Does everything from laundry to dishes to soakers. • Koala Eco: Australian-made, certified toxin-free, multiple independent certifications. Naturally fragranced with Australian botanicals including lavender, eucalyptus, and lemon myrtle, all of which have antimicrobial properties. The packaging is beautiful. Irene loves it in the bathroom. Unlike Abode, it actually looks good sitting on a shelf. The Priority Order for Swapping Products • First: Dish Soap. You're eating off what you wash with it. Make the swap here first. • Second: Laundry Detergent. You're breathing it all day through your fabrics. • Third: Dishwasher Tablets. Again, eating off those dishes. Room by Room: Lee's Cleaning Order • The Fridge: Every shelf, every wall, every compartment. Natural all-purpose cleaner for the interior. Half a lemon to absorb odours naturally (or dry coffee grounds, or fresh orange peel, left overnight in a small bowl). Cotton buds or a toothbrush for the door seal folds. Bicarb in the dishwasher, not the fridge. Dry everything properly after. • Windows: White vinegar and water in a spray bottle, buff dry with a lint-free cotton cloth. No streaks, no residue. The newspaper-and-vinegar hack their parents used no longer works, modern newspaper ink is different and can leave residue. The same vinegar and water bottle works on benches, stovetops, and splashbacks. • Bathroom Grout: Bicarb sprinkled directly onto grout, white vinegar sprayed over the top, scrub gently with an old toothbrush, rinse off. The fizzing is the acid and alkaline reacting, it lifts the grime without requiring force. Be gentle with grout. • Floors: Steam mop. No soap required, just water. Lee uses hers regularly on hard floors. For walls, she prefers by hand. • The Washing Machine: One cup of bicarb soda into the drum plus a splash of white vinegar, run a hot cycle, once a month. Dissolves build-up, eliminates the damp smell that transfers to clothes. Also clean the front door seal and the glass door panel, the build-up in the folds is, in Lee's words, staggering. • Dusting: Damp cloth, not a feather duster. Dry dusting just moves particles back into the air where they can remain airborne for days. Work top to bottom. Wash cleaning cloths at over 60 degrees to kill dust mites. • Cutting Boards: Not plastic (microplastics). Wood or glass. Lee uses wood, cleans with Dr. Bronner's and water. For anything requiring proper antibacterial treatment, a plate is a practical alternative. A HEPA filter vacuum handles mould on furniture and other soft surfaces. Dust Mites: What They Are and Why They Matter • What They Are: Microscopic insect-like pests that live in house dust. Invisible to the naked eye. • What They Feed On: Dead skin cells. • Symptoms: Itching, allergies, and asthma. Particularly significant for people with respiratory conditions living in dusty environments. • Their Preferred Environment: Humidity between 70–80 percent. • How to Manage: Damp microfibre cloths for dusting, HEPA filter vacuum, change bedsheets regularly, wash fabrics at over 60 degrees. The Psychology of Cleaning • Cortisol and Control: The act of cleaning actively reduces cortisol and creates a sense of control over your environment. Particularly useful when things feel chaotic. • Behavioural Activation: A concept from psychology. Doing something purposeful and completing it lifts mood. Cleaning is one of the easiest forms of behavioural activation, you can see the before, the after, and the result is immediate and visible. Even one drawer or one bench will shift your mental state. • Irene's Wardrobe Moment: Irene spent the previous evening colour-coordinating her wardrobe after letting it build up for months. She arrived at the recording noticeably calmer. She has decided this was not a coincidence. • Lee's Rule: Clean before you go on a trip so you come home to a clean house. Then clean again when you get back. A clean ordered space tells your brain it is safe to relax. 🧠 Womansplain: Justin and the Chiropractor Question • The Question: Justin cannot take chiropractors seriously. It sounds, he says, like someone monetised their party trick. Cracking your back or your fingers at a party and then expecting a framed certificate for your efforts. He is open to being wrong. • The Pop Has a Name: It is called cavitation. The sound comes from the synovial fluid inside your joints, the lubricating fluid that contains dissolved gases including oxyg
May 27

Episode 10: Mason Taylor on Mushrooms & the Ancient Art of Not Falling Apart, Justin is in a Bit of a Pickle, and Irene’s Forever Rant About Forever Chemicals. 🍄

Episode 10: Mason Taylor on Mushrooms & the Ancient Art of Not Falling Apart, Justin is in a Bit of a Pickle, and Irene's Forever Rant About Forever Chemicals. 🍄 This week, the cabin gets a very special guest. Mason Taylor, founder of SuperFeast, Daoist philosophy devotee, and quite possibly the most passionate man alive on the subject of medicinal mushrooms, joins Lee and Irene for what may be the most downloaded episode yet Mason takes us through the ancient Chinese three-treasure system of Jing, Chi, and Shen and why your goal should never be immortality, but rather arriving at elderhood with your full self intact. He breaks down the difference between a therapeutic mushroom product and a glorified chocolate powder, explains why Tremella made Irene's skin look extraordinary, and reveals the underground Australian fungi nobody's talking about yet. Justin, meanwhile, wants to know if 2008 pickled onion brine counts as a sports supplement. And Irene has a rant-slash-rave about France's forever chemicals ban and why the brands who quietly reformulated their products are not getting the standing ovation they were hoping for. ✨ In this episode we chat about: 🍄 What's Popping: Welcome to the Secret Cabin • The Cabin Guest Situation: Mason Taylor arrives, giving Justin cause for what Lee generously describes as 'wariness' and what is more accurately described as side teeth and a low growl. There is room for more than one man in the cabin. Deep breaths, everyone. • Mason Taylor Introduction: Founder of SuperFeast, mushroom maven, Daoist, and the man whose original podcast episode with Irene over nine years ago remains her most downloaded ever. He has come all the way from Byron Bay. • Mushroom Pun Cap: Three puns maximum. They exceeded this before Mason even sat down. 🌿 What's Popping Deep Dive: Mason Taylor on Daoism, Mushrooms & the Three Treasures Daoist Philosophy & Longevity • The Dao (Taoism): An ancient philosophy for moving through life more synergistically with people and the world. Mason describes it as 'real deep personal development, frameworks so life happens a little more smoothly.' • Longevity ≠ Immortality: The goal isn't to live forever. The goal is to arrive at elderhood with enough vitality that you've done your work, tackled new projects, contributed to community, and refined yourself, without projecting unprocessed baggage onto everyone around you. • The Real Question: As Mason puts it: Does the world really need David Asbury forever? He only cares that this podcast beats his on the Australian charts. It will, after this. The Three Treasures: Jing, Chi & Shen • Jing (Foundational Essence): Your superannuation of vitality. Bones, sex drive, the ability to age without degenerating early. Think of it as the ship. If you're burning the candle at both ends, you're leaking Jing. • Chi (Vitality): The crew that runs the ship. Your capacity to integrate life, mobilise yourself, animate the machine of your body. Diet, breathwork, doing work that generates charge. • Shen (Spirit/Mind): The cargo. The culmination of your personality, your mind, the refined diamond of who you are. The goal: protect it through the journey so your wisdom is fully intact in old age. • Cultivating vs Leaking: You are always doing one or the other. Any practice, herb, work, or lifestyle choice either cultivates your treasures or leaks them. This is the core Taoist health question. SuperFeast A Purpose-Driven Organisation • Built from Six Moments: Mason mapped six 'lightning strike' moments across his life that gave birth to SuperFeast, not for public branding, but as an internal compass. Every product, strategy, and company virtue derives from them objectively. • The Purpose Statement: To dramatically lower disease and degeneration, creating superhumans who may enter into the realms of elderhood. • The Business-Dao Wrestling Match: Mason openly wrestles with the tension between commercial and contemplative. His resolution: build the organisation like an ecosystem. Integrate all tiers, animism, hierarchy, flat family structure before graduating to an autonomous, purpose-driven one. • Getting Back in the CEO Chair: Mason is currently back at the helm, reviewing marketing strategy to realign it with SuperFeast's founding essence. The Superior Herbs: A 2,000-Year-Old Framework • The Shen Nong Ben Xiao Jing: The Divine Farmer's Materia Medica one of the founding texts of Chinese medicine. It identified a handful of superior herbs; Reishi, Ginseng, Rehmannia, Goji, Schizandra, Eucommia Bark, Astragalus and specified not just which herbs, but exactly which microclimate conditions were required for them to carry their therapeutic treasure. • The Herbs and What They Do: These aren't symptom-treatment herbs. They're taken over a long period to protect the treasure of the body and prevent degeneration. The earlier you start, the more constitutional shifting you do. • Why They Work: These herbs are adaptogenic, they intelligently restore regulation in the body. Think of them as 'little friends' that come in and help the body find its own balance, rather than forcing a pharmacological outcome. Irene's Personal Mushroom Story • Nine or so years ago, Irene had Mason on her first podcast. It was her most downloaded episode. She started taking Jing and Tremella. The difference in how she felt and looked was, in her words, 'unexplainable.' She has since lost her way (largely due to selling a business, stress, and the natural chaos of life) and is now deeply, publicly committed to starting again. • Tremella and Skin: Irene describes eating it 'by the tablespoon' and never looking so good. She is emphatic: this was not placebo. It shone from the inside out. • The Plateau Question: When you stop feeling a big effect, that's not a sign the herb has stopped working. It may mean you've done the constitutional shifting it was bridging. Next move: dose up, or pivot to another formula for a different season. • The Wrong Time to Stop: The most stressful, depleting moments of your life are precisely when you should be ramping up, not stopping. Mason's rule: when you're hammering your body, that's when these allies matter most. Lion's Mane: The Neuroscience Catches Up • Mason's Mother's Stroke Recovery: Mason used Lion's Mane during his mother's stroke recovery at a time when it was considered extremely fringe. She has now made what some doctors call a miraculous and Mason calls a practical recovery. • The Research Has Arrived: Lion's Mane is now being studied as a primary neuroprotective agent. The science has caught up with what Daoist herbalists knew centuries ago. • Why It Exploded: The fear of neurodegeneration is visceral. Watching a loved one lose their mind is one of the great fears of our time. Whoever was 'doing the branding' for Lion's Mane in the Taoist immortal realms, Mason says, absolutely nailed it. • The 2-Minute Noodle Problem: Mason's term for venture capitalist brands that spot a market gap and add a token amount of Lion's Mane extract to a gummy or chocolate. He is visibly pained. Particularly when people with serious diagnoses, MS, immune deficiencies, reach for the quick, cheap version because they don't have time to research. How to Know You're Getting the Real Thing • Look for Fruiting Body: Not mycelium grown on grain. The fruiting body is what has the therapeutic compounds. Check the label. • Look for Extract: You want the mushroom to have been extracted (as in a traditional tea or tincture process), not just whole-ground dried mushroom. If the label shows 'herb equivalency', it may just be whole ground product. • Wood-Grown: Mushrooms should be grown on wood, not grain substrate. Organic certification is a reasonable starting filter, but SuperFeast operates beyond organic, testing for way more pesticides and heavy metals than required, to standards exceeding US and Australian organic certifications. • Trust Through Time: Mason has been doing this since 2011, shows up everywhere, and has never had to change a product due to a quality or integrity issue. He started at markets where mothers would return after three months and tell him directly if something didn't work. That accountability never left. • TGA Listed: SuperFeast is now TGA-listed as a registered medicine in Australia, which Mason notes is an almost impossibly expensive and opaque process for a small company, but gives independent credibility to the therapeutic claims. • The Supply Chain: SuperFeast's herbs and mushrooms come from small, obscure farms in remote mountain regions, far from any industrial zone. Mason visits them. They are not mass production. Wild harvesting is used when responsible; when an herb approaches unsustainable harvesting levels, they move to growing in wild-simulating conditions five years ahead of when it becomes a problem. Psychedelics vs Functional Mushrooms • The Line: Clear to most people now. Functional/tonic mushrooms are non-psychedelic, legal, accessible, and taken for cultivation and long-term vitality. Psychedelic mushrooms are a separate category. • Where They Overlap: Mason is a sponsor of MIND Medicine Australia, which runs psychedelic-assisted therapy training. SuperFeast supplies mushrooms to graduates specifically for integration, using Lion's Mane, Cordyceps, Chaga and Reishi to help the body and nervous system process and recover from deep psychedelic or shamanic work. • Jing for the Deep Dive: If you don't have the foundational Jing energy to undergo a deep dive, spiritual, psychedelic, or otherwise,

See All (17)

Creator

Lee Holmes
Years Active

2026
Episodes

17
Rating

Explicit
Show Website

The Lee and Irene Show

The Lee and Irene Show

Episodes

Episode 17: Lyme Disease, Being Gaslit, and Getting Your Mojo Back, We Hear Amy Down's Four-Year Fight for Truth 🩺

Episode 16: Has Reformer Pilates Eaten Yoga? Kate Kendall Settles It and We Talk GLP1s.

Episode 15: Why Trying Harder to Sleep Is Keeping You Awake, with Sleep Psychologist Dr. Amelia Scott.

Episode 14: Lee Holmes Launches Her 12th Book “Eat to Heal”, the Truth About Chronic Inflammation and Zombie Cells, and Justin Gets 'Splained on Low Testosterone.

Episode 13, Naturopath Jane Papalia on the Mediterranean Diet, Longevity, Beauty, and Why Your Nonna Was Probably Right All Along, Wayne Gets ‘Splained on Reflux and Irene Busts Out a Rant

Episode 12 All Hail the Sugar and Energy Queen Michele Chevalley-Hedge, and the Labels That Are Lying to You, Justin Finally Learns to Breathe, and Lee’s Rant on the Fillers Nobody Warned You About.

Episode 11: How to Get a Virgo Level of Cleaning on a Capricorn Budget, Justin Discovers Chiropractic, and Irene's Rave for the Customers Who Never Left. 🧹

Episode 10: Mason Taylor on Mushrooms & the Ancient Art of Not Falling Apart, Justin is in a Bit of a Pickle, and Irene’s Forever Rant About Forever Chemicals. 🍄

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