New Media Show (Audio)

Rob Greenlee

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New Media Show with Rob Greenlee formerly co-hosted by Todd Cochrane RIP discussing the new media and podcasting space with new weekly guest co-hosts.

2d ago

Liquid Content Era Needs New Measurement | Steven Goldstein, Amplifi Media #680 (Audio)

In Episode 680 of the New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Steven Goldstein, founder and CEO of Amplifi Media, for a timely, future-leaning discussion. We have entered the Liquid Content Era. A podcast conversation can now become an audio episode, full-length YouTube video, Spotify video, Apple Podcasts video, vertical clips, social posts, articles, newsletters, searchable transcripts, and potentially AI-discovered answers. The underlying content may be the same, but the way people encounter and consume it varies by platform. That creates an enormous opportunity for creators. It also creates a measurement problem. Podcasting built much of its advertising business around the download. That metric helped turn an emerging medium into a legitimate advertising marketplace, but Steven argues that it no longer adequately represents how audiences consume modern shows. Downloads were created in an era when bandwidth was limited and podcast applications often downloaded episodes to devices before the listener played them. Today, streaming is increasingly immediate, video consumption is growing, audiences move between devices, and clips can sometimes reach more people than the original episode. The question is no longer simply: How many times was the podcast downloaded? The better question may be: How many people actually listened to, watched, encountered the advertising, and engaged with the creator’s content across the entire media ecosystem? Why advertisers need this change. Large brands already buy television, web, streaming video, social, and other digital media through dashboards that provide comparable impression-based reporting. Podcasting remains fragmented across RSS analytics, platform dashboards, YouTube views, Spotify data, and different definitions of what constitutes meaningful exposure. That fragmentation makes podcast media harder to buy at scale. Steven explains that advertisers do not want separate teams manually reconciling podcast audio, video, clips, and platform metrics. If podcasting wants to attract substantially more advertising investment, it needs to fit more easily into the systems marketers already use. That leads into one of the episode’s central topics: the AMP Accords. The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting was formed to address three persistent problems: Defining a podcast Standardizing exposure metrics across platforms Creating a more consistent way to evaluate advertising effectiveness. The AMP Accords describe their goal as establishing cross-platform measurement standards spanning open RSS and closed platforms. One of the biggest proposed shifts is moving toward a 30-second play as a standardized exposure metric across audio and video. Steven is less concerned about whether 30 seconds ultimately proves to be the perfect number than he is about establishing a common starting point. Media measurement has always evolved. Steven draws on his experience in radio, where audience measurement moved from handwritten listening diaries to electronic Portable People Meters. The change was disruptive. Some formats gained audience under the new methodology, and others lost it. But advertisers demanded better information, and the industry eventually adapted. Podcasting is facing a similar moment. The industry should not allow the pursuit of a perfect measurement system to delay the adoption of a more useful one. The AMP framework also addresses advertising impressions and audience measurement. That matters because an advertiser ultimately wants to know whether someone actually received an advertising message, not simply whether a media file was automatically delivered to a device. Rob and Steven discuss the tension this creates for established podcast measurement. Some publishers remain strongly committed to the download because it has provided consistency and an open measurement methodology for many years. Steven gives the download credit for helping build the podcast advertising business but believes the medium now needs to move forward. The shift becomes even more important when video enters the equation. YouTube has become a major podcast-consumption platform with sophisticated analytics on views, watch time, audience behavior, retention, and discovery. Spotify has added video. Apple is expanding its video capabilities through HLS. Meanwhile, audiences increasingly move fluidly between audio and video rather than seeing them as completely separate media products. This raises another difficult question: What exactly is a podcast now? The AMP Accords propose a broad podcast definition that encompasses audio or video and open or closed distribution, provided the program remains meaningful without requiring constant visual attention. Steven likes the basic framework but emphasizes that audiences will ultimately shape the word’s meaning. People already call shows “podcasts” based on format and experience rather than on technical infrastructure. Most listeners do not know whether a show uses RSS feeds, direct platform uploads, streaming video, or another delivery method. Rob raises a concern about defining podcasting too strongly through an audio lens. If a video must always function perfectly with the viewer’s eyes closed, does that discourage creators from investing in richer visual storytelling? That question becomes increasingly important as video production matures. A modern video podcast can include visual demonstrations, graphics, archival material, set design, screen sharing, camera movement, and other elements that provide additional value to the viewer. Rob argues that creators should retain the freedom to build excellent audio and excellent video experiences, even when the two versions are not identical. The discussion then moves to another major part of liquid content: short-form video. Shorts or Clips were initially treated primarily as promotional tools designed to push people toward the full episode. That assumption is changing. Some audience members may never consume the full show. They may know a creator entirely through Shorts, Reels, TikTok, or other excerpts. Steven describes this as both an opportunity and a potential problem. If a creator publishes the four best moments from an hour-long conversation, some viewers may decide those clips provide everything they wanted from the episode. That means short-form may represent a separate audience, not simply a funnel into long-form media. At the same time, social clips have become an increasingly important discovery mechanism. Creators cannot simply ignore the places where audiences spend their time. That is the essence of liquid content: the audience determines where and how the media gets consumed. Artificial intelligence adds another layer. Steven believes creators should increasingly think beyond traditional SEO, Search Engine Optimization, toward AEO, Answer Engine Optimization. AI systems are increasingly becoming discovery engines themselves. Instead of searching through a list of websites or podcast episodes, a user may ask an AI system a specific question and receive a direct answer assembled from available sources. That shift could be especially valuable for niche creators. A podcast with deep authority in a narrow subject may become an important source of AI-generated answers if its content is well-structured, transcribed, accessible, and clearly associated with expertise in that category. Rob expands the discussion into recommendation systems. YouTube already uses AI extensively to determine which content should be presented to which audience. Similar systems will increasingly influence discovery throughout digital media. That creates a harder competitive environment. Steven argues that mediocre content will be crushed. As audiences face effectively unlimited choices and algorithms become better at filtering those choices, simply producing acceptable content may no longer be enough. Shows need differentiation, relevance, expertise, strong personalities, or storytelling that holds attention. That does not mean every successful podcast needs millions of listeners. Steven points to niche podcasts serving highly specific professional communities. A show about HVAC systems may never become a mainstream entertainment hit, but it can still become an extremely valuable business if it reaches the right technicians, manufacturers, buyers, and industry decision-makers. Influence within a valuable niche can matter more than raw audience scale. The conversation closes by examining the tension between short-form and long-form media. Consumers are time-starved. Summaries, clips, AI-generated takeaways, and compressed content are becoming increasingly useful. Yet long-form is not disappearing. Joe Rogan, Acquired, Dan Carlin, and other successful long-form creators demonstrate that audiences will still spend hours with content when the storytelling, expertise, personality, or subject deserves the investment. The real challenge is earning the audience’s time. In the Liquid Content Era, creators are no longer simply publishing episodes. They are building adaptable media assets that can move across platforms, formats, screens, algorithms, and audiences. The measurement systems now need to catch up. Topics Covered in This Episode: -What Steven Goldstein means by the Liquid Content Era -Why one piece of content now becomes many media products -Why the podcast download is becoming less representative of consumption -What podcasting can learn from radio and television measurement -Why advertisers need unified cross-platform metrics -The AMP Accords and the future of podcast measurement -The proposed 30-second play standard -Plays, audience, ad impressions, and ad audience -Audio versus video measurement -Apple HLS, YouTube, Spotify, and platform competition -Why the definition of a podcast co
Aug 6

IRL Experiences Build Trust and Authority | Samara Beth Hurley #679 (Audio)

In Episode 679 of the New Media Show, host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Samara Beth Hurley, founder and CEO of Samara Beth & Co., for a wide-ranging conversation about experiential branding, audience trust, personal authority, storytelling, live events, artificial intelligence, and the growing value of real human relationships. Creators have more ways than ever to attract attention through podcasts, video, social media, newsletters, events, books, speaking, search, and AI-powered discovery. But attention is only the beginning. The deeper challenge is turning attention into trust, trust into authority, and authority into relationships that can support a lasting creator brand or business. Samara brings more than 30 years of experience across events, experiential branding, public relations, marketing, publishing, coaching, speaking, and business strategy. She explains why memorable experiences engage more than the mind. They involve emotion, physical presence, environment, story, and multiple senses, making them more likely to remain with an audience. The central idea of the episode is that content may introduce people to a creator, but experiences can make that creator memorable. From Attention to Experience: Why creators need more than visibility, impressions, downloads, views, or followers. Samara explains that an immersive experience can involve all five senses and create a much deeper memory than a conventional piece of content. This can happen through an in-person event, retreat, workshop, book, video, virtual presentation, conversation, or carefully designed brand interaction. The goal is not simply to be seen. The goal is to make people feel something meaningful and consistent enough that they remember the creator, trust the message, and understand the value behind the brand. Samara also explains why events should be reverse-engineered around the desired audience result. Before selecting the venue, visuals, entertainment, content, or promotion, creators should determine what they want people to believe, feel, remember, and do after the experience. Credibility, Confidence, and Congruence: One of the central frameworks Samara shares is her three-part trust formula: – Credibility – Confidence – Congruence Credibility comes from experience, demonstrated knowledge, proof, media appearances, testimonials, awards, published work, results, and a consistent record of showing up. Confidence develops through practice. Samara discusses how speaking, presenting, selling, training, and communicating become stronger through repetition rather than waiting to feel completely prepared. Congruence means that the person audiences encounter across a website, podcast, social profile, book, stage, event, media appearance, and personal interaction should feel recognizably connected. Omnipresence With a Strategy: Samara describes herself as an “omnipresence fairy godmother” and explains why creators need to appear across multiple relevant platforms, media formats, and public channels. But omnipresence does not mean publishing without direction. Creators need a strategy that connects social media, podcasts, video, PR, books, articles, television appearances, events, awards, websites, and public profiles. Rob and Samara discuss the danger of throwing content onto platforms without a clear understanding of the audience, purpose, brand position, or desired business outcome. A creator may be visible everywhere but still be difficult to understand. The strongest public presence creates repeated, credible signals around who the person is, what they know, what they stand for, and why their work matters. Personal Brand Versus Business Brand: Samara explains the distinction between a personal brand and a business brand. A personal brand is connected to the individual’s name, expertise, story, reputation, values, speaking, publishing, and long-term legacy. A business brand may be structured so it can grow beyond the founder, employ a larger team, scale independently, and potentially be sold. Not every creator needs both. – A coach, speaker, consultant, author, or experienced executive may only need a strong personal brand. – A founder building a company that can eventually operate without them may need a separate business identity and brand architecture. Turning Personal Stories Into Authority: How frequent moves, career changes, family experiences, loss, divorce, business transitions, and personal reinvention shaped Samara’s current work. The conversation examines when personal experience becomes a valuable market asset rather than simply a private story. Samara argues that people connect to stories because stories help audiences see themselves inside another person’s experience. A strong creator does not need to reveal every private detail. A personal experience can be adapted, anonymized, reframed, or presented as a client, family, or community example when appropriate. The purpose is not personal exposure for its own sake. The purpose is to make knowledge relatable, memorable, and useful to the audience. Samara also describes how she integrated memoir elements into her business book, “WIN YOUR BRAND: The Unapologetic Playbook for Becoming Iconic”. Her personal stories support the larger lessons about branding, resilience, visibility, relationships, and authority. When the Brand Leaves the Screen: Why in-person events, retreats, masterminds, workshops, intimate gatherings, and community experiences may become more important as digital content becomes more abundant. Large conferences can provide scale and visibility, but smaller events can create stronger relationships. A person may speak to thousands of people from a major stage but only build genuine relationships with a smaller number through meals, conversations, workshops, shared activities, informal gatherings, and follow-up. Samara believes the market is moving toward more intimate experiences where participants can meet one another, build trust, share knowledge, and form partnerships. The most valuable part of an event may happen over coffee, dinner, a walk, a workout, a shared hotel stay, or a conversation after the scheduled programming has ended. Those interactions can create referrals, clients, collaborations, partnerships, friendships, and long-term business value. Creating Immersive Virtual Experiences: Not every creator or audience member can travel. Storytelling, visual design, direct eye contact, shared activities, gifts, music, food, demonstrations, physical materials, and guided participation can make virtual experiences more engaging. A virtual event cannot fully replicate physical presence, but it can be designed to foster stronger emotional engagement. Storytelling remains one of the most powerful tools. When a creator describes a setting, emotion, challenge, sound, physical feeling, or moment in detail, the audience can begin to experience that story even when they are not physically present. Samara supports the use of AI for research, workflow automation, idea development, organization, operational support, and production assistance. But warn against using AI in ways that create a false impression or weaken the audience’s confidence in the creator, thereby breaking trust. Rob discusses his decision to label The New Media Show as human-hosted and his earlier consideration of creating an AI-generated co-host or clone. They explore how synthetic voices, avatars, cloned appearances, generated scripts, and automated media could become increasingly difficult to distinguish from human-created work. The risk is not simply that AI content exists. The larger risk is that an audience believes it is interacting with a real person and later discovers that it was misled. Transparency, consent, rights, voice protection, likeness protection, and responsible disclosure will become more important as these technologies improve. Many of these tools remain inconsistent. They may produce images that do not resemble the person, use generic language, miss the creator’s personality, or create more work rather than saving time. Samara advises creators not to purchase every new tool simply because an early price or lifetime deal appears attractive. The AI marketplace is crowded, and many products have not yet reached a reliable level of quality. Creators should begin with a clear problem, test the technology, measure the result, and determine whether the tool actually improves the work. Professional photography, original video, custom design, trusted partners, and human creative judgment continue to matter. Content Repurposing Versus New Content: The conversation also explores the tension between repurposing existing material and creating new content for specific platforms. AI can help extract clips, rewrite posts, summarize interviews, search archives, and transform old material into different formats. But audiences and platforms may still respond more strongly to content created for the current moment. Samara explains that her social media team encouraged her to reduce some repurposing and create more original, audience-directed content. The larger lesson is that efficiency should not replace relevance. Creators need a balance between extending the value of existing work and continuing to produce fresh ideas, stories, and perspectives. Relationships Are the Long-Term Advantage: The episode returns repeatedly to the value of relationships. Platforms, algorithms, content formats, AI systems, and business models will continue changing. A creator’s strongest long-term assets may be credibility, relationships, reputation, trust, lived experience, professional network, and the ability to create meaningful human connection. AI can help operate the systems behind a business. AI can automate repetitive tasks, support follow-up, o
Aug 3

Blubrry’s Next Chapter | Barry Kantz, CEO/CFO #678 (Audio)

In Episode 678 of the New Media Show, host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Barry Kantz, CEO and CFO of Blubrry Podcasting, for a candid conversation about Blubrry’s leadership transition, the legacy of (RIP) former CEO Todd Cochrane, independent podcasting, video, artificial intelligence, monetization, measurement, human support, and the changing podcast-hosting market. For more than 20 years, Blubrry and its parent company, RawVoice, have helped build and support the open podcast ecosystem. The sudden passing of Blubrry founder and longtime New Media Show co-host Todd Cochrane forced the company, its team, and Todd’s family to navigate an unexpected personal and business transition. Barry explains how Blubrry responded, how leadership responsibilities shifted, and how his management approach differs from Todd’s hard-charging entrepreneurial style. Barry is bringing a more data-driven and systems-focused approach while trusting Blubrry’s experienced remote team to carry the company forward. The conversation also examines how podcasting itself is changing. Audio remains central to the medium, but video has become part of how audiences define and experience podcasts. Rob and Barry discuss YouTube discovery, the overlap between watching and listening, short-form clips, RSS distribution, Apple’s HLS video support, alternative enclosures, Podcasting 2.0, and Blubrry’s Vid2Pod tool for turning YouTube videos into audio podcast episodes. Barry also shares an update on Blubrry’s HLS video development and discusses the company’s new lower-priced starter plan introduced around the time of the recording. Artificial intelligence is another major part of Blubrry’s next chapter. Barry explains how he uses Claude as a daily assistant for analytics, automation, research, and company operations. Barry sees AI as a way to make podcast creation and management easier, especially for creators who may not have extensive technical experience. At the same time, Blubrry’s larger goal is to use technology to support human expression rather than replace the human connection that gives podcasting its value. Rob and Barry discuss low-effort AI-generated content, synthetic media, voice cloning, the limitations of automated clipping tools, and the growing need to distinguish human-hosted shows from fully automated productions. The discussion then moves into monetization and the opportunities still available to independent creators. Barry argues that smaller shows can create meaningful business value when they serve a clearly defined audience and develop strong relationships with listeners. Creators do not necessarily need millions of downloads. A focused show with several hundred deeply engaged listeners can provide valuable access to a professional, geographic, or consumer community. Barry also reflects on Blubrry’s early work with host-read advertising and Todd Cochrane’s long-running sponsorship relationship with GoDaddy as examples of how trust, consistency, niche relevance, and audience connection can create durable advertiser value. Rob and Barry also examine the challenge of measuring audio and video under a common standard. HLS video, progressive audio downloads, platform-controlled playback, and various delivery methods complicate the determination of what should count as a verified play. The discussion explores why common measurement matters to advertisers and why the industry may need different technical approaches for audio and video consumption. The episode closes with a broader look at the increasingly competitive podcast-hosting market. Hosting, storage, and delivery have become commodities. The competitive difference now comes from the tools, services, support, analytics, workflows, distribution options, and human expertise built around the infrastructure. For Blubrry, that includes PowerPress, WordPress integration, video support, Vid2Pod, Podcasting 2.0 features, AI-assisted workflows, monetization options, analytics, and access to experienced human support. Both reflect on the legacy Todd Cochrane helped create and provide a detailed look at how Blubrry plans to move forward in a media environment shaped by audio, video, AI, open distribution, creator ownership, and changing audience expectations. Key Discussion Topics: – Blubrry’s transition following Todd Cochrane’s passing – Barry Kantz’s leadership and management approach – How the Blubrry team responded to sudden change – Todd’s influence on podcasting and the open ecosystem – The evolving definition of a podcast – Audience movement between watching and listening – YouTube discovery and short-form video – Blubrry’s Vid2Pod technology – Apple HLS video support – RSS, alternative enclosures, and Podcasting 2.0 – Blubrry’s lower-priced starter plan – AI-assisted podcast production and operations – Human-hosted media versus automated content – Voice cloning, authenticity, and audience trust – Monetization for independent and niche creators – Host-read advertising and direct sponsorships – Measuring audio and video consumption – Podcast hosting as a commodity – PowerPress and the continuing role of WordPress – Human customer support as a competitive advantage – The future of independent podcasting Chapter Time Stamps: 00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 678 00:44 Blubrry’s role in the open podcast ecosystem 02:03 Introducing Barry Kantz, CEO and CFO of Blubrry Podcasting 03:31 The sudden loss of former co-founder/CEO of Blubrry, Todd Cochrane 05:22 How the Blubrry team responded 06:29 Barry’s leadership style compared with Todd’s 08:17 Bringing data and operational systems into the company 09:57 How Todd might view today’s podcast market 11:11 Video becomes part of podcasting 13:20 Blubrry’s Vid2Pod product 14:46 Barry’s transition from CFO to CEO 18:14 The opportunity for independent creators 20:00 Who now defines what a podcast is? 21:07 Audiences move between watching and listening 23:24 YouTube discovery and the importance of Shorts 24:55 The limitations of AI-generated clips 26:20 Blubrry’s Apple HLS video rollout 28:12 Blubrry introduces a lower-priced starter plan 29:08 Alternative enclosures and Podcasting 2.0 30:34 Barry’s use of Claude as an AI assistant 32:02 Supporting human creators while limiting AI slop 33:20 Voice cloning and the challenge of replicating humanity 36:18 Blubrry’s philosophy on podcast monetization 37:30 How niche shows can attract direct sponsors 39:27 Managing expectations for new podcasters 43:16 Measuring HLS video and audio downloads 46:45 New competition in podcast hosting 47:36 Why hosting has become a commodity 50:45 Product focus, acquisitions, and platform complexity 52:01 WordPress, PowerPress, and AI-assisted websites 55:00 Blubrry’s commitment to human customer support 57:31 Closing thoughts on Blubrry’s future About the Guest: Barry Kantz is CEO and CFO of Blubrry Podcasting and one of the original founders of its parent company, RawVoice. Barry has produced podcasts since 2005 and has worked with Blubrry throughout its more than 20-year history. His responsibilities have included company finance, legal affairs, human resources, analytics, operations, and business leadership. Following the passing of Blubrry founder Todd Cochrane, Barry stepped into the company’s primary leadership role. He is now guiding Blubrry through its next chapter as podcasting expands across audio, video, artificial intelligence, open RSS distribution, WordPress, and creator-led media. Blubrry Podcasting https://blubrry.com Blubrry Leadership and Company Information https://blubrry.com/about Barry Kantz on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kantzb Blubrry Podcast Insider https://blubrry.com/podcast-insider About the Host: Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee, Chair of the Podcast Hall of Fame, and a longtime new-media executive, creator, strategist, and industry leader. He is the co-founder and current host of The New Media Show and the founder of Trust Factor Lab. Rob has worked across podcasting, radio, digital media, audio, video, creator platforms, partnerships, distribution, monetization, and emerging AI-assisted media for more than 26 years. His previous leadership roles include Microsoft, PodcastOne, Spreaker, and Libsyn, where he helped shape the growth of podcasting, distribution platforms, creator partnerships, and digital audio. Through The New Media Show, Rob explores how podcasting fits inside the larger new-media ecosystem, including video, livestreaming, artificial intelligence, platforms, audience ownership, intellectual property, advertising, trust, and sustainable creator businesses. New Media Show https://newmediashow.com The New Media Show on YouTube https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649 Rob Greenlee https://robgreenlee.com Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee Rob Greenlee on YouTube https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee Podcast Hall of Fame https://podcasthall.com AI Disclosure: AI tools were used to help organize and edit this episode description and create chapter markers from the completed episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain with Rob Greenlee. This description reflects the substance of the recorded conversation between Barry Kantz and Rob Greenlee. The post Blubrry’s Next Chapter | Barry Kantz, CEO/CFO #678 first appeared on New Media Show.
Jul 26

How Brands Buy Creator Media | Dan Granger, Oxford Road #677 (Audio)

In Episode 677 of the New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Dan Granger, founder and CEO of Oxford Road, for a detailed conversation about how personality-led media is changing what brands buy, how audiences are measured, and what the podcast industry must do to support its next stage of growth. Audiences increasingly follow people rather than traditional media channels. A trusted personality can carry an audience across podcasts, YouTube, livestreams, newsletters, social platforms, communities, events, and direct business relationships. Advertisers, however, still tend to purchase and measure those formats as separate media channels. That disconnect is becoming one of the largest challenges facing creator media. A creator may record a single conversation and distribute it across multiple platforms, yet each platform reports exposure differently. Advertisers are then left trying to compare downloads, streams, video views, watch time, impressions, attribution data, and host-read performance without a consistent standard. Dan has spent his career connecting advertisers with personality-driven media. Oxford Road now describes its work as building performance systems across audio, video, creator, and programmatic media, with Dan serving as the company’s CEO. The conversation begins with Oxford Road’s growing investment in bringing brands, creators, platforms, and media leaders together in person. Dan explains how the company’s CAO Summit developed from the idea of a “Chief Audio Officer,” the person inside a brand responsible for making audio advertising work. That responsibility may belong to a founder, marketing leader, media buyer, or growth executive rather than someone with a formal audio title. The CAO Summit was designed as a peer-learning environment where advertisers could speak openly with other advertisers about measurement, attribution, creative performance, and the practical problems preventing brands from spending more in podcasts and creator media. Oxford Road continues to position the CAO Summit as a meeting point for the marketers, platforms, and creators shaping what it calls “Podcast+” media. They also discuss the Independent Podcast and Creator Awards, also known as the Indie PaC Awards. The program was created to recognize independently owned creators and shows at a time when consolidation continues across podcasting and digital media. Dan argues that independent creators remain central to the value of podcasting. Creators who maintain closer relationships with their audiences, retain more editorial control, and deliver strong results for advertisers. Oxford Road’s own published ORBIT rankings show that independent shows account for a large share of its strongest-performing podcast inventory. Defining an independent creator is difficult, though. A creator may own the intellectual property while accepting a minimum guarantee from a platform. A show may be represented by a large network without being owned by that company. A successful personality may have substantial corporate support while retaining full editorial control. The Indie PaC criteria attempt to consider who owns the content, whether the show publishes consistently, and whether the podcast or creator channel is a central part of the person’s business rather than a side project created primarily to support an existing celebrity career. The inaugural awards were announced as an event focused on creator ownership and independently produced media. That discussion leads into the episode’s central theme: personalities are becoming media businesses. Creators once waited for a network, publisher, studio, or broadcaster to select them. Today, personalities can build audiences directly and expand across formats without waiting for a traditional gatekeeper. Their name, voice, perspective, and relationship with the audience can become the media’s primary brand. Dan believes advertising dollars will continue moving toward these creator-led environments. A brand may no longer purchase only a podcast placement or a YouTube integration. It may sponsor the creator across several surfaces and negotiate rights to reuse the resulting content in paid campaigns. That changes the asset being purchased. The value can include the creator’s audience relationship, intellectual property, content, distribution reach, endorsement, likeness, and permission to repurpose the campaign. Dan sees trust as the element that connects those assets. Host-read advertising remains especially important because the recommendation comes through a person the audience already knows. The strongest integrations allow the creator to speak naturally, test the product, acknowledge limitations, and explain why it may be useful. Rob and Dan share early examples from the podcasting market in which creators criticize parts of a sponsor’s offering during paid integrations. That apparent risk can make the rest of the endorsement more believable because the audience hears an honest response rather than polished marketing language. The discussion also examines where an advertisement appears inside an episode. Dan is sharply critical of post-roll advertising because much of the audience has already left by the time the ad plays. Rob and Dan also discuss pre-rolls, mid-rolls, dynamic insertion, programmatic advertising, and the effects of placing too many ads in a single episode. Oxford Road has published PodLoad research comparing the number of advertising units placed within shows. Dan argues that an impression in a program carrying 6 minutes of advertising per hour should not automatically be valued the same as one in a show carrying 20 minutes of advertising. Excessive ad load can weaken attention and reduce campaign performance. Brand values and suitability add another layer. Dan believes advertisers should understand the values they claim to support and make intentional decisions about the creators and environments they fund. Dan also believes brands became overly reactive during the height of the brand-safety debate and then moved too far in the opposite direction. The goal should be a durable position that considers business outcomes alongside genuine organizational values. Audience demographics matter, but the creator’s tone, worldview, conduct, and credibility can also affect whether the partnership makes sense. The second half of the episode turns to the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting, known as AMP. Dan convened AMP as a one-year industry task force focused on three core questions: – What qualifies as a podcast? – How should exposure be counted across audio and video? – How should advertising results be attributed? AMP includes representatives from platforms, advertisers, publishers, creators, agencies, and measurement companies. Its stated purpose is to develop voluntary cross-platform standards that make podcast inventory easier to compare, buy, sell, and measure. One of the group’s most discussed recommendations is moving toward a 30-second play threshold. Dan explains that he is less concerned with whether the correct threshold is exactly 30 seconds or 60 seconds. The larger problem is that different platforms use different definitions. That inconsistency prevents advertisers from confidently comparing performance across audio and video. The 30-second recommendation reflects what AMP members believed had the greatest chance of broad adoption. A workable shared standard can move the market forward even when it does not represent every participant’s preferred method. Dan compares the current landscape to islands that speak different languages. Each platform may have useful data, but the absence of a common language makes commerce harder. AMP is trying to provide a shared framework without requiring every platform to abandon its existing internal analytics. The group is preparing the AMP Accords as a framework covering podcast classification, exposure, and advertising effectiveness. The official AMP site identifies Oxford Road as the organization that convened the process. Rob and Dan then take on the most persistent question in podcasting: What is a podcast? Two areas continue to create friction. One is whether a podcast must be distributed through RSS. The other is whether the medium must be primarily audio. Dan believes RSS represents important principles, including open access and flexible distribution. Dan does not believe RSS should be the only requirement determining whether a show qualifies as a podcast. His practical test is whether the experience still works when the audience closes its eyes. Video can enhance a podcast without disqualifying it. A program that requires constant visual attention will remain open to debate, but he argues that advertisers need enough consistency to conduct business. Rob explains that RSS has increasingly become an industry-level, server-to-server distribution system. Many newer creators do not know where to find their RSS feed because hosting platforms now handle most submission and syndication work through dashboards and direct platform connections. Audiences care even less about the technical delivery method. They call content a podcast based on how the experience looks and feels. The conversation also covers Apple’s HLS video implementation. Rob supports the opportunity for high-quality streaming video but questions Apple’s use of a direct submission process rather than placing the HLS stream inside the open RSS feed. He believes alternative enclosures could enable the same video stream to reach more podcast apps without limiting it to a single platform. Dan views HLS as broadly compatible with AMP’s goal of measuring real consumption across audio and video. He also recognizes that open distribution, platform control, creator ownership, and practical commercial adoption will continue pul
Jul 23

Creators Become Media | Steve Wilson, Daylight Media and QCODE #676 (Audio)

In Episode #676 of the New Media Show, host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Steve Wilson, Chief Strategy Officer at Daylight Media and QCODE, for a wide-ranging conversation about the shift from producing a successful podcast to building a sustainable creator-led media company. Creators no longer operate in a simple world of publishing one show to ONE place and relying mainly on advertising. The strongest creators are building direct relationships with audiences across podcasts, video, short-form clips, newsletters, communities, subscriptions, live events, products, and services. Podcasting remains one of the most effective long-form formats for building trust and repeated audience connection. It is now one part of a larger media strategy shaped by video distribution, platform algorithms, artificial intelligence, audience ownership, and the growing power of individual personalities. Steve brings a valuable perspective to this discussion. Before joining QCODE, he spent years working with Apple Podcasts and iTunes. At QCODE, he helped develop and distribute premium scripted audio series featuring talent including Matthew McConaughey, Demi Moore, and Rami Malek. QCODE has since expanded through Daylight Media, which provides distribution, monetization, technology, marketing, and business support for a broader network of creators. Daylight currently works with roughly 70 creators and shows representing approximately 300 million monthly audio downloads and video views. Across that network, video now accounts for a significant share of consumption, although the balance between audio and video differs considerably from show to show. That difference is important. Some creators have audiences that strongly favor YouTube and Spotify video. Other shows continue to perform primarily through audio. For some programs, video may be valuable mainly as a discovery and social marketing layer rather than as the central product. Steve argues that creators should evaluate their format, audience, resources, and business goals before committing to a major video expansion. Rob and Steve discuss Apple’s HLS video support and why it may become an important addition to the podcast distribution ecosystem. HLS can give creators greater flexibility in delivering video while maintaining many of the ownership and control principles associated with RSS. The larger issue is whether creators retain access to their audience data, revenue information, advertising options, and the ability to move their shows between services. The conversation also examines what makes a show work in both audio and video. A strong video presentation may include thoughtful set design, lighting, visual storytelling, archival material, graphics, and physical objects that add context. The underlying audio still needs to stand on its own. Listeners should not feel as though they are receiving an incomplete version of a show because they cannot see what is happening on screen. Steve points to television, documentary production, and the work of filmmakers such as Ken Burns as useful references. A show can begin with excellent audio storytelling and add visuals that deepen the experience without making the audio audience feel secondary. There are also cases where the audio and video products should remain different. Scripted fiction uses sound to create a theater of the mind, allowing listeners to imagine the world and its characters. Turning that same property into a visual production may require a separate creative and business decision rather than a simple video version of the podcast. We also explore the potential for long-form content on Instagram, the renewed interest in vertical video, and the growing market for microdramas. They also revisit Quibi and consider whether some earlier media ideas failed because the technology, audience behavior, or distribution environment was not yet ready for them. The discussion then turns to one of the most important distinctions between podcasting and YouTube. YouTube can generate large spikes around individual videos, but performance may vary widely from episode to episode. Traditional RSS-based podcast audiences are often more consistent. That stability can make an audio podcast especially valuable to advertisers because future episode delivery and revenue are easier to forecast. YouTube is highly effective for discovery. Podcast feeds are often stronger at developing recurring habits around a series. Successful media companies will increasingly need to understand the value of both. Catalog discovery is another major opportunity. Podcasts and long-form videos can remain useful for years, but most platforms continue to prioritize newly released material. Steve argues that the industry needs better ways to help audiences find relevant episodes from existing catalogs based on subject, location, interest, and current context. Daylight recently acquired Podcast Review, a long-running editorial publication focused on podcast reviews, interviews, recommendations, and lists. Steve sees independent editorial guidance as an important part of helping audiences find strong shows beyond what algorithms automatically recommend. Podcast Review continues to publish consumer-focused coverage while operating as a Daylight Media property with stated editorial standards and disclosures. Rob and Steve discuss whether the audience now has more influence over what qualifies as a podcast. Listeners and viewers increasingly use the word to describe a style of recurring, personality-led media rather than a specific technical delivery method. Steve is less concerned with rigid format definitions. He compares the current debate to earlier questions about whether a streaming series released all at once should still be called television. Distribution formats change. Audience behavior changes. The most useful question is whether the content delivers the experience people expect from the show. The second half of the episode focuses on creators becoming media companies. Daylight works with creators at different stages, from established personalities such as Jon Stewart to growing shows entering advertising for the first time. Some partners need only ad sales support. Others are developing subscriptions, merchandise, tours, live events, networks, and additional shows. Steve describes Daylight as an infrastructure layer that often works behind the scenes. The goal is to help the creator’s brand remain visible while providing the operational systems needed to grow. Daylight was launched as an expansion of QCODE’s creator-support work, with services covering distribution, audience development, marketing, technology, products, and monetization. Creator-first structure differs from an older media model in which the studio or network brand often controlled the relationship between talent and audience. Steve believes the next era will give creators more leverage, flexibility, and ownership. The companies that support them will need to prove their value without taking over the show’s identity. Artificial intelligence is already affecting that work, although adoption varies widely. Some creators are using AI for research, transcription, artwork, editing, and production support. Others remain strongly opposed to it. Steve does not see the choice as a complete acceptance or rejection of AI. Each use case needs to be evaluated separately. Voice dubbing may help a creator correct a short line without having to re-record an entire session. Transcription can reduce production time. Synthetic performances or undisclosed manipulation may violate the audience’s expectations and trust. Both agree that growing volumes of synthetic content may also increase the value of live, in-person, and clearly human experiences. Podcast tours, creator conferences, community gatherings, retreats, and interactive events allow audiences to participate in ways that digital platforms cannot fully reproduce. The opportunity may extend beyond recording a regular episode on stage. Future creator events could include audience conversations, workshops, performances, shared activities, and experiences built around a particular community or interest. This episode offers a clear view of where creator media is heading. A show can remain the center of the relationship, but the greater opportunity lies in building a flexible media business around the audience, protecting creator ownership, and selecting formats that serve the content rather than following every platform trend. Topics Covered in This Episode – Why successful creators are becoming media companies – QCODE’s expansion into Daylight Media – Audio and video consumption across the Daylight network – Apple HLS video and creator-controlled distribution – Why every show needs a different audio and video strategy – Set design and visual storytelling for video shows – Preserving a complete experience for audio listeners – Scripted fiction, video adaptations, and intellectual property – Instagram, vertical video, and microdramas – YouTube discovery compared with RSS audience stability – Evergreen content and podcast-catalog discovery – Apple Podcasts editorial discovery – Daylight Media’s acquisition of Podcast Review – Whether audiences now define what a podcast is – Revenue beyond advertising – Subscriptions, merchandise, networks, touring, and events – Daylight as a behind-the-scenes creator infrastructure company – RSS, APIs, alternate enclosures, and platform control – Creator access to audience and revenue data – AI production tools and audience trust – The growing value of live and human experiences Chapter Time Stamp Markers: 00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 676 00:36 Creators are building full media businesses 02:24 Introducing Steve Wilson of Daylight Media and
Jul 19

Why Podcast and Creator Awards Matter | Cameron Stack, Recognized.fm #675 (Audio)

In Episode 675 of the New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Cameron Stack, founder and curator of Recognized.fm, for a conversation about podcast awards, creator credibility, industry recognition, and the growing business behind awards, nominations, platform distinctions, editorial selections, and career honors. Podcast awards can be easy to dismiss as another trophy or promotional exercise. Credible recognition can have a much larger impact on a creator, a show, a network, or a media company. An award nomination or win can strengthen a media kit, support sponsor conversations, attract better guests, generate press coverage, and give prospective listeners another reason to take a show seriously. The difficult part is deciding which awards deserve the investment. Podcasting now has a wide recognition ecosystem that includes juried competitions, audience-voted awards, editorial selections, regional programs, platform honors, niche-category awards, professional distinctions, and lifetime-achievement recognition such as the Podcast Hall of Fame. Cameron created Recognized.fm to organize this expanding market and help creators understand their options. Recognized currently tracks more than 100 audio and podcast awards, with information that can be filtered by factors such as geographic scope, entry fees, voting format, and prestige. They discuss why creators should begin with a clear objective before paying to submit. A widely known international award may bring general visibility, while a smaller award focused on a creator’s profession, region, language, or subject category may carry more influence with the people they most want to reach. Example 1: A medical podcast may receive greater credibility in healthcare than from a broad entertainment competition. Example 2: A true-crime show may benefit more from an award respected by that community than from competing across every podcast genre. Submission fees also need to be considered. Independent creators may only have the budget to enter one or two competitions, while networks and larger publishers can treat award submissions as part of a broader marketing strategy. Cameron explains why creators should compare costs against potential returns in visibility, authority, business development, audience growth, and professional validation. The judging process matters just as much as the entry fee. Creators should understand who operates the award, how judges are selected, what criteria are used, whether the process is transparent, and how much weight the recognition will carry with the intended audience. Every award has its own purpose and incentives. Some are selected by industry juries. Others rely on fan voting, editorial judgment, platform data, or a combination of methods. Recognized.fm is building a clearer taxonomy so creators can understand those differences before committing their time and money. Awards also function as social proof. Audiences already use ratings, reviews, trailers, artwork, recommendations, and visible audience activity to decide whether a show deserves attention. A respected award or nomination adds another outside signal that the work has been evaluated and recognized. The recognition can strengthen sponsor decks, improve outreach to potential guests, support speaking opportunities, and help creators position themselves as credible voices within a category. The impact can continue long after the ceremony, as recognition becomes part of the creator’s biography, website, introductions, and business materials. We also explore the larger “recognition economy”. Awards are one part of an industry that includes trophy manufacturers, submission platforms, consultants, event producers, sponsors, judging systems, media organizations, and the businesses that support professional recognition. As creator-led media grows, new awards will continue to emerge around podcasts, YouTube shows, livestreaming, newsletters, social video, and other online formats. Established awards will also need to adapt as audiences and media habits change. Artificial intelligence will bring another layer of change. Cameron expects AI-related categories and dedicated AI awards to emerge as organizations seek ways to recognize new forms of production and technological achievement. Rob raises the trust questions that will accompany that shift, especially when established human-centered awards begin considering synthetic or substantially AI-generated work. The episode closes with a look at the physical trophies themselves. Cameron shares examples from the Webbys, Signal Awards, iHeartPodcast Awards, international design competitions, and other recognition programs. A memorable trophy can become a visible symbol of the award and extend its value through videos, studio sets, social posts, and public appearances. For creators, producers, networks, and media companies, Episode 675 provides a practical framework for deciding when awards are worth pursuing, how to evaluate them, and how credible recognition can support broader media and business strategies. Topics Covered in This Episode * Why credible podcast recognition matters * Cameron Stack’s background in podcast production * The development of Recognized.fm * Juried, fan-voted, editorial, regional, and platform awards * How creators should decide which awards to enter * Submission fees and potential return on investment * Broad awards compared with niche recognition * Awards as social proof for listeners and sponsors * Strengthening media kits and guest outreach * Podcast Hall of Fame and career recognition * Judging standards, transparency, and organizational bias * The larger recognition economy * AI-generated content and future award categories * Creator-native awards and legacy media ceremonies * Why memorable trophy design matters Chapter Time Stamp Markers: 00:00 Why podcast awards and recognition matter 02:05 Cameron Stack and the origin of Recognized.fm 04:08 Recognition expands beyond traditional podcast awards 05:47 Building a comprehensive guide to audio awards 07:34 Should every creator submit to awards? 10:23 The full podcast recognition ecosystem 11:56 What creators gain from recognition 13:33 Broad awards compared with niche awards 15:00 Editorial selections and platform recognition 17:16 Awards as credibility and social proof 19:03 Measuring the return from an award 21:39 Mapping the taxonomy of podcast awards 24:52 Inside the Recognized.fm platform 26:03 Events, jobs, and recognition-industry resources 28:09 Future award discovery and submission tools 29:54 Niche communities and the demand for recognition 31:52 Judging standards, transparency, and trust 34:15 Submission fees, bias, and due diligence 38:23 How AI may reshape awards 40:59 AI categories, positioning, and possible backlash 43:22 The growing recognition economy 46:01 Creator-native awards and legacy ceremonies 48:06 Why the physical trophy matters 52:27 The Webbys, Lovie Awards, and digital recognition 53:31 iHeartPodcast Awards and major-industry trophies 54:53 Signal Awards, the Ambies, and podcast trophy design 56:00 Recognized.fm and closing thoughts 58:49 End of episode Guest Links: Cameron Stack, Founder and Curator, Recognized.fm Recognized.fm: https://recognized.fm Podcast Awards Taxonomy: https://recognized.fm/podcast-awards About Recognized: https://recognized.fm/about-recognized Recognized Newsletter: https://recognized.substack.com Cameron Stack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameron-stack Recognized.fm, curated by Cameron Stack, focuses on making the awards and recognition industry easier to understand and navigate. Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649 New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com About Trust Factor Lab Trust Factor Lab helps creators, media leaders, executives, and brands build stronger audience trust across AI, video, podcasts, and creator-led media. Founded by Rob Greenlee, it focuses on media positioning, content strategy, authority development, AI transparency, audience growth, and trust-centered business outcomes. AI Disclosure Note: I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode and its description, then create chapter markers from the episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain mine. The discussion reflects the views expressed by my guest and me during the recorded conversation. The post Why Podcast and Creator Awards Matter | Cameron Stack, Recognized.fm #675 first appeared on New Media Show.
Jul 15

Video-First Podcasting Has Arrived | Rox Codes, Flightcast #674 (Audio)

In Episode 674 of the New Media Show, Podcast Hall of Fame Host Rob Greenlee welcomes Rox Codes, CEO and co-founder of Flightcast.com. For a deep conversation about video-first podcasting, YouTube growth, AI-powered analytics, creator tools, and where podcast publishing is heading next. Rox Codes has spent years building tools for creators, including YouTube optimization, thumbnail and title creation, A/B testing, and creator growth systems. Flightcast was co-founded with Steven Bartlett of The Diary of a CEO. Rox is building a platform centered on a core shift in the market: serious shows are no longer just audio-first with a bonus video version. Many of the fastest-moving creators now think about YouTube first, then audio, clips, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, newsletters, social platforms, and every other surface where the audience may discover the show. Has video-first podcasting fully arrived, and is it now equal to audio, or is it becoming even more important for growth? Rox explains that Flightcast came from a very different starting point than traditional podcast hosting. Instead of beginning with RSS, downloads, and audio workflow, the platform was built from a YouTube creator mindset. YouTube has long been the clearest growth platform for creators because it combines publishing, discovery, audience development, monetization, and measurable performance into a single system. Podcasting, by contrast, has often separated those pieces across hosting platforms, apps, ad systems, analytics dashboards, and RSS-based distribution. The episode explores why this matters now. A modern show can become a long-form YouTube episode, an audio podcast, Spotify video, Apple video, short-form clips, newsletter content, social posts, community discussion, and brand inventory. Rox describes podcasts as a powerful format because a single strong two-hour conversation can yield many different media assets across multiple platforms. That creates opportunity, but it also creates complexity. They discuss Apple’s HLS video support, Spotify video, YouTube, RSS, 4K video, thumbnails in feeds, Netflix, Roku, FAST channels, Prime Video, and the growing need for creators to publish into more places without needing to understand every technical layer underneath. Rox argues that creators should not have to care about acronyms like HLS, VAST, RSS, or 301 redirects unless the technology directly affects their business. The software should handle the complexity so creators can focus on the show, the audience, and the growth strategy. A major theme of the episode is that video success is not just about uploading an MP4 file. Rox makes a strong case that the real shift is in mindset. On YouTube, titles, thumbnails, intros, pacing, retention, curiosity gaps, promise, progress, payoff, packaging, and audience behavior all matter. Podcasting has historically treated episode art and titles as secondary. YouTube treats them as the front door to the content. Rob and Rox spend significant time on thumbnails and titles, including why creators need to understand the psychology behind a click without reducing the work to empty clickbait. Rox explains that a thumbnail should create a question the viewer wants answered, while the episode itself must deliver enough value to earn attention and retention. The best creators do not copy blindly. They study what works, understand why it works, and apply that structure in their own voice, to their audience, and through their creative point of view. The conversation also moves into AI. Rox does not describe Flightcast as an AI-first platform, but AI is an important layer inside the system. He sees major value in AI analytics, back-catalog analysis, clip testing, title suggestions, descriptions, chapters, transcripts, and pattern recognition. His larger ambition is to bake more of the YouTube strategist and producer mindset directly into the software so creators can see what is working, what is not working, and where new growth opportunities may exist. Rob and Rox also discuss monetization. As video moves deeper into podcast platforms, host-read ads, dynamic ad insertion, video ad formats, brand partnerships, affiliate models, and creator-controlled advertising may begin to converge. Rox explains Flightcast’s ability to support programmatic, dynamic sponsorships and bring-your-own-programmatic monetization, while keeping the platform focused on growth and creator support rather than solely on ad sales. The episode closes with a look at the future of podcast hosting itself. Rox argues that basic hosting has become a commodity. The next layer is growth, analytics, experimentation, distribution, monetization support, and creator intelligence. In a world where AI can make software easier to build and copy, the real advantage may come from insight, speed, taste, data interpretation, and the ability to help serious creators make better decisions faster. For creators, publishers, networks, and podcast platforms, Episode 674 is a clear look at the next stage of podcasting: video-first, data-aware, AI-supported, YouTube-influenced, and increasingly built around shows that can travel everywhere. Chapter Topic Time Stamp Markers: 00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 674 00:19 Has video-first podcasting arrived? 01:21 Introducing Rox Codes and Flightcast 02:32 Building tools for YouTubers before podcasting 03:18 Why podcast hosting needed a YouTube-first mindset 04:13 Building the Flightcast playbook around video-first shows 05:31 Bringing the Diary of a CEO playbook into software 06:54 Can a platform support data-driven production? 08:27 AI, automation, and the future of show creation 09:13 LLMs and AI tools in creator workflows 10:23 AI as a podcast data consultant 11:19 Publishing, analytics, and experimentation 13:41 Could Flightcast become a creator operating system? 14:17 Podcasts as long-form source material for every platform 16:39 Is YouTube success the strongest growth signal? 17:19 Growth, retention, and why YouTube has the advantage 19:44 Going from YouTube to audio vs audio to video 20:49 Who Flightcast is built for 21:28 Apple HLS, Spotify video, and platform complexity 22:21 Can Apple or Spotify compete with YouTube video? 23:43 Video as human connection 24:24 Apple Podcasts video and the return of native video distribution 25:51 Netflix, podcasts, and low-cost creator TV 27:22 Why creator video can work across phone, laptop, car, and TV 28:20 Apple TV, 4K, and the quality question 29:16 Why creators should not need to understand HLS or RSS 31:55 The podcast industry still has too much technical friction 33:46 Alternate enclosure, iHeart, HLS, and RSS thumbnails 34:27 Why episode artwork and thumbnails now matter more 35:10 The thumbnail and title are the packaging 37:14 AI thumbnail scoring and creative judgment 38:08 Thumbnail psychology and curiosity gaps 38:52 Retention editing, strong intros, and promise-progress-payoff 40:10 Why better videos can multiply results 41:19 The real workload behind YouTube-quality video 42:37 Legacy media skills vs YouTube creator skills 44:50 Faster testing cycles changed creator media 45:32 Why video can be ten times harder when done right 45:53 How AI can bake strategy into software 47:00 Where Flightcast differs from early-stage creator tools 47:32 YouTube algorithm changes and podcaster anxiety 49:19 HLS, video ads, and creator-controlled ad insertion 50:22 Dynamic ads across YouTube and podcast platforms 51:33 Platform trust and monetization value 52:01 YouTube brand connections and affiliate models 53:18 Right brand, right creator, right price 54:35 360 campaigns, affiliates, and creator investments 57:17 Organic product mentions and brand relationships 58:14 What podcast hosting becomes next 58:46 Hosting as a commodity and growth as the real business 59:37 APIs, AI coding, and software moats 1:00:30 Where is the moat in creator software? 1:01:07 Staying ahead through insight and experimentation 1:03:32 Advanced analytics as the future advantage 1:04:41 Every creator has a different data pattern 1:05:14 MrBeastification, AI, and creator sameness 1:06:10 Outlier analysis and creative inspiration 1:07:15 Why outlier theory works when used correctly 1:08:44 Packaging the topic before recording 1:09:32 Does this conflict with podcasting culture? 1:11:01 Why data-driven formats do not have to kill creativity 1:12:23 Ryan Trahan and creative twists on proven formats 1:14:17 Packaging as the price of audience attention 1:15:04 Craft, creativity, and changing the playbook 1:16:51 Podcasting’s radio roots and YouTube’s different rules 1:17:27 Flightcast demo: stop guessing what content works 1:18:00 Publishing video everywhere with unified analytics 1:18:51 Measurement standards and the 30-second vs 60-second debate 1:20:21 AI analytics, clips, and test channels 1:21:35 YouTube API limits and thumbnail A/B testing 1:22:51 Flightcast monetization and bring-your-own programmatic 1:23:55 Transcripts, AI titles, descriptions, and chapters 1:24:21 Flightcast pricing and plans 1:25:41 HLS across all plans and video storage differences 1:26:32 Future pricing credits for more clips 1:26:48 Closing thoughts and where to find the episode Guest Links: Rox Codes, CEO and Co-Founder, Flightcast Flightcast: https://flightcast.com Rox Codes Website: https://roxcodes.com Rox Codes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roxcodes Rox Codes on X: https://x.com/RoxCodes Rox Codes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChg53qPBdY1FF8gjOlB9zkg Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649 New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow Rob Greenlee
Jul 12

Podcasting Beyond the Download | Casey Adams, Listener.com #673 (Audio)

In Episode 673 of the New Media Show, host 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Casey Adams, founder and CEO of Listener.com and host of The Casey Adams Show, for a timely conversation about how podcasting, video, social content, advertising, and new media measurement are rapidly converging. For more than 20 years, podcasting has relied heavily on RSS feeds, downloads, and audio-first measurement as the foundation of distribution and advertising value. That still matters, but the media environment around it has changed dramatically. Shows now are distributed across Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, social video, newsletters, clips, livestreams, and direct audience communities. Audiences may call it all a podcast, even as the industry continues to debate its technical definition. Casey brings a founder, creator, and investor perspective to the discussion. He started podcasting as a teenager, interviewing founders and entrepreneurs, and later built MediaKits.com before moving into podcast analytics with Listener.com. His current work focuses on helping modern publishers understand how a single episode performs across audio, long-form video, short-form clips, newsletters, and social platforms. Rob and Casey explore why the term “podcast” now means different things to different groups. To many longtime industry professionals, podcasting still points back to RSS-based audio distribution. To many younger listeners and viewers, it means a format: a recurring show, often conversational, often video-enabled, and consumed wherever attention already exists. The conversation centers on one of the biggest questions facing podcasting and new media right now: How do you measure the true value of a show when the audience is no longer in one place? Rob and Casey also discuss why the download can no longer carry the entire weight of podcast measurement. A single episode may now generate value through an Apple Podcasts listen, a Spotify stream, a full YouTube view, a YouTube Short, a TikTok clip, a LinkedIn post, an X post, a newsletter mention, and a brand integration that travels across all of those surfaces. Each platform counts activity differently. Each platform has its own audience behavior. That makes reporting, sponsorship value, and campaign analysis more complex. Casey explains Listener.com’s concept of episode clusters: grouping the full set of related content around one episode so publishers and advertisers can see the larger cross-platform reach and performance. Instead of treating the audio file as the entire campaign, an episode cluster recognizes that one conversation can become long-form video, social clips, newsletter content, and multiple ad touchpoints. We also discuss the rising influence of creator-led media companies. Examples like TBPN, Jomboy Media, Substack’s media activity, and venture-backed new media brands show how independent shows and creator-driven networks are increasingly competing with legacy media for attention, trust, and advertiser value. The conversation explores why companies, CEOs, investors, and major brands now seek to control their own narrative through podcasts, owned shows, and trusted media relationships. We also examine the advertising side of this shift. Brands want better campaign reporting, but they also want context. A host-read placement, a social clip, a full video episode, and a newsletter mention should not all be treated the same. Modern publishers need tools that let them demonstrate the full value of their media ecosystem without flattening every metric into a single misleading number. Meaning for creators. Being a podcaster may no longer fully describe the work involved. Modern show builders are becoming media operators. They need to understand production, audience behavior, platform distribution, brand positioning, analytics, content packaging, and trust. The technical meaning of podcasting still matters, but the audience meaning matters just as much now. For creators, networks, agencies, and brands, Episode 673 offers a clear look at the next stage of podcasting: a media business built around trusted shows, distributed everywhere, measured more intelligently, and no longer limited to downloads. Topics Covered in This Episode: 00:33 Why podcast measurement is changing 01:00 Moving beyond the download 01:44 RSS, streaming, and modern distribution challenges 02:42 Introducing Casey Adams of Listener.com 03:37 Casey Adams joins the show 04:17 What Listener.com is trying to solve 05:00 AI-powered analytics for modern podcast publishers 05:41 Casey’s podcasting origin story 06:30 Interviewing Larry King and learning from media legends 07:18 Larry King’s warning about rejecting new media trends 08:04 From MediaKits.com to Listener.com 09:15 Rob’s early podcasting and radio background 10:04 Why the industry struggles with change 11:00 Does Casey still consider himself a podcaster? 12:00 Podcasts as a format, not just a technology 13:10 YouTube, Spotify, and the expanded podcast ecosystem 14:34 Why modern shows must meet audiences where they are 15:37 The audience now defines what a podcast means 16:16 RSS audio vs the broader podcast perception 17:16 Apple HLS and the pressure on RSS 18:17 The industry needs to accept broader podcast usage 19:26 Younger audiences and podcast consumption habits 20:39 Larry King’s quote behind Listener.com 21:25 Why RSS is becoming less visible to creators and audiences 23:21 Respecting podcasting’s roots while accepting change 24:00 The Uber analogy for podcasting’s disruption 25:41 Journalists, creators, and independent media companies 27:49 Creator-led media and the rise of new media brands 28:33 Legacy media relevance is being challenged 30:13 TBPN and the new media company model 31:28 Treating a show like a full media ecosystem 32:36 Year-long sponsorships and category exclusivity 33:49 Why serious creators must think like media companies 35:19 How podcast analytics supports advertiser relationships 36:00 Silicon Valley’s renewed interest in “new media” 37:23 The pandemic pushed legacy media into creator workflows 38:16 Casey introduces the Listener.com platform 39:05 Jomboy Media and creator-led sports coverage 40:00 Episode clusters and cross-platform performance 41:00 Tracking long-form video, audio, and short-form clips 42:18 Episode reports for brands and publishers 43:05 Why every platform metric should be valued differently 44:00 How Listener.com supports campaign reporting 45:00 Aggregating metrics from multiple platforms 46:00 Audio, content, commerce, and newsletter integrations 47:00 Using AI to match clips to episodes 48:00 Listener AI and talking to your podcast data 49:23 Making podcast data easier to understand and share 50:00 Where podcast analytics and AI go next 51:28 AI can guide creators, but execution still wins 52:23 Using AI as a thought partner for content strategy 53:24 Why creators must keep improving their shows 54:47 What drives new media inspiration today? 56:01 Why companies want to control their narrative 57:15 CEOs, podcasts, and trusted long-form conversations 58:22 Substack, owned media, and creator platforms 59:21 New podcast metrics standards and platform conflicts 1:00:35 How different platforms count views and plays 1:02:16 Serving publishers while tracking industry standards 1:03:00 Why brands need better cross-platform campaign reports 1:04:28 Toward better host-read campaign reporting 1:05:14 How platform changes flow into Listener.com data 1:06:00 Why publishers should control their own data 1:07:00 Putting a show’s full value forward 1:08:03 Brand, trust, and modern podcast IP 1:09:34 OpenAI, TBPN, and strategic media investment 1:10:32 Why TBPN brought sponsors back 1:11:11 How media brands can help shift company narratives 1:12:15 New media as a strategic communications layer 1:14:00 Lessons from AI-generated podcast network messaging 1:14:46 The risk of platform influence after acquisition 1:16:00 Why the TBPN deal was more than a podcast deal 1:16:39 Will more companies buy or build media brands? 1:17:40 HubSpot, distribution, and trusted voices 1:18:08 Why creators must stay honest with audiences 1:19:40 Authenticity and audience trust in sponsorships 1:20:05 Casey’s closing thoughts on podcasting and new media 1:20:34 Rob’s closing view on podcasting as one lane in new media 1:21:41 How publishers can work with Listener.com 1:22:43 Networks, independent shows, and Listener.com’s go-to-market 1:23:56 Closing remarks and where to find the show Guest Links: Casey Adams, Founder and CEO, Listener.com Listener.com: https://listener.com Casey Adams Show & Website: https://www.caseyadams.com The Casey Adams Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-casey-adams-show/id1328795944 Casey Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casey-adams-430b3114a/ Casey Adams on X: https://x.com/CaseyAdams Casey Adams on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/casey/ Host: Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649 New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com Personal / AI Disclosure Note I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and generate show notes from the episode transcript. The views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine and my guest’s. This article reflects my editorial direction and the substance of the conversation. The post Podcasting Beyond the Download | Casey Adams, Listener.com #673 first appeared on New Media Show.

See All (591)

out of 5

26 Ratings

They tell it like it is!

04/13/2024

Wild dude 22

Todd and Rob keep us abreast in wold of New Media. They are entertaining as well as informative without any specific slant or bias.I like the show and you will too after listening
Can’t stop listening

09/14/2022

ted_hosmann

I’m afraid to miss an episode. Thanks for the entertainment weekly.
Lazy & Narow

05/17/2023

~ Violet ~

Every time I try to listen to this show it has gotten worse. Can’t imagine how anyone could waste bandwidth on the video version. Powerful men in podcasting riffing on stuff they don’t know (and can’t be bothered to learn) about before they press record. Zero editing (imagine having that level of arrogance). Embarrassing for the whole industry.
Go To Source

03/27/2017

isaacada1

The dynamic duo of Todd & Rob break down the latest news and information taking place in the podcast industry. Love the candor of both of both in how they see the industry, where it's been and where its going into the future.

New Media Show with Rob Greenlee formerly co-hosted by Todd Cochrane RIP discussing the new media and podcasting space with new weekly guest co-hosts.