Story Grid Writing Podcast

Shawn Coyne and Tim Grahl

Helping you become a better writer. Join Shawn Coyne, author of Story Grid and a top editor for 30+ years, and Tim Grahl, struggling writer, as they discuss the ins and outs of what makes a story great. More at www.StoryGrid.com.

  1. 2d ago

    Art, Automation, and AI — Part 2

    Tim picks up the artifact-versus-artifice thread from last week and asks the practical question: what does it have to do with automation and AI? Shawn's first answer is a distinction. An LLM takes in the corpus of human artifacts, finds the most popular patterns, and stitches them into something that looks original but is a mimicked artifact, not a new one. Artifice, the capacity to project something into the future that has never existed, stays with the human. From there the conversation turns to what AI is actually good for (speed and research), what prompting really is, and then into the deep end: whether a written sentence can be fully computed, and what that means for how editing works. Topics covered: Original artifacts versus mimicked artifacts, and why an LLM output is an integration of what already exists rather than a projection of what could beWhy AI behaves like a confirmation bias machine, and why it's hard to get it to tell you something you don't want to hearJaron Lanier's "Wikipedia on steroids" framing, and why the people building AI present it as a saviorShawn's Library of Congress story: two weeks of research that would take a second today, and Tim's espresso machine example from a scene he was writingPrompting as programming: knowing exactly what you want, the same way you once had to learn how to search GoogleWhy developmental editing is slow by nature: you can't evaluate the first sentence until you've read the whole artifactContent and context, show and tell, and everything packed into the two-word sentence "Tim screams"The Russian doll structure: sentence, scene, arc, quadrant, whole, and the mythic standard that applies at every levelGödel's incompleteness theorem, the Church-Turing thesis, David Deutsch, and Claude Shannon's information theory, and how Shawn uses all five to argue that a halted artifact can be fully computedRussell and Whitehead's Principia Mathematica and the failed attempt to prove that one is oneShawn's actual editing process for a scene: did anything change, find the sentence evidence for each of the five commandments, confirm each is shown rather than toldInciting incident, turning point, crisis, climax, resolution, and the A-P-A-P-A pattern of antagonism and protagonism across the fiveWhy a progressive complication is a reaction, not a transformation, and why the antagonist always leads the inciting incidentWhy language is a form of math and math is a form of language, and why F=ma and "don't jump out the window" are the same messageWhy Shawn won't hoard what he knows, and what it would mean to formalize it so a machine can analyze a writer's work the way he doesBooks and works referenced The Story Grid by Shawn CoynePrincipia Mathematica by Alfred North Whitehead and Bertrand RussellThe Odyssey, The Iliad, Pride and Prejudice, The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit

  2. Oct 2

    Art, Automation, and AI — Part 1

    Tim opens with a broad question: a few years after ChatGPT hit the public consciousness, where does Shawn stand on what AI is, how it's useful, how it isn't, and what it means for writing and editing? Shawn's answer comes from the three years he spent on Mentoring the Machines with John Vervaeke, author of Awakening from the Meaning Crisis. Rather than start with AI, he starts with technology itself and builds up from there. The episode is less a list of tips than a map, and by the end it lands on a clear claim: AI is an algorithmic system that simulates the heuristics, principles, and stories of its programmers, and it has zero understanding of myth. Topics covered: Three kinds of technology: external (the shovel), shared or "nomo" technology (the idea of the shovel passed between people), and psychotechnology (the capacity to think up the shovel in the first place)Algorithms, heuristics, and principles, and why each one maps to a human capacity we use every day without noticingWhy a theory is really a limitation, and how innovation (Newton to Einstein) pushes the limit outwardStory as the integration of algorithms, heuristics, and principles, and myth as the larger cycle that story sits insideWhat myth actually means, why Tim got corrected for misusing it in an email, and why "it's just a myth" is a sign the language has been degradedArtifact versus artifice: the recorded thing versus the capacity that made it, and how the two combine into artThe Odyssey, Scylla and Charybdis, and why a story whose circumstances never happened can still be a higher form of truth than a recordWhy the "AI will destroy us" story and the "AI will let us drink pina coladas forever" story are both agendas, and what to look for when a story is all chaos or all orderTim's internet-in-the-'90s comparison, and whether AI is fundamentally different from past technologiesComputational versus conscious systems: why speed and scale may never cross the threshold to consciousness, and why the only real test would be an original artifactShawn's definitions of consciousness (attention, awakening, awareness, affordance, attunement, agreement, alignment, at-onement), and why the machines don't careFaith as a practical problem rather than a religious claim, and why you need the artifice of falsity to reach the artifact of truthBooks referenced Mentoring the Machines by Shawn Coyne and John VervaekeAwakening from the Meaning Crisis by John VervaekeThe OdysseyLinks Sign up for the Story Grid newsletter at StoryGrid.comMentoring the Machines

  3. Sep 25

    How do you write a book you're proud to publish?

    Tim opens with a stat that frames the whole conversation: the average unpublished writer he surveyed has been at it for nearly 15 years. He puts the question to Shawn directly. What is Story Grid trying to do about that? Shawn's answer starts with the mythic patterns that make stories like The Odyssey, The Lord of the Rings, and Pride and Prejudice last, and lands somewhere most writing advice doesn't: the sentence. His argument is that the same beginning, middle, and end that shapes a novel also shapes a scene and a sentence, and that the sentence is the smallest unit capable of carrying a transformation. Get that right and the larger structures follow. Along the way, Tim and Shawn cover: Why reading Save the Cat, McKee, and MasterClass doesn't translate into being able to write a mythic story, and what Aristotle's subject-and-predicate has to do with itThe chicken sexing model of learning: repetition plus feedback from someone who knows, instead of theory firstWhat Shawn actually meant when he told Tim, after two full manuscripts, that he couldn't write a sentenceThe five commandments (inciting incident, turning point, crisis, climax, resolution) as five "criticalities" of everyday experience, and how each one can be written as one sentenceAntagonism and protagonism as forces, not roles, and why antagonism isn't the bad guyWhy Story Grid students are limited to one sentence per commandmentTim's guitar and jiu-jitsu comparisons, and why writing is harder to self-correct than eitherFlow state, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's Flow, and why feeling like you're taking dictation from the muse doesn't mean the writing worksJournaling versus writing: the difference between monologue and a dialogue with a readerThe Aunt Louise test for whether your five sentences are actually workingAlso mentioned: Brent Spalding, a Story Grid student whose novel was published by Story Grid Publishing. Books referenced Flow by Mihaly CsikszentmihalyiOn Writing by Stephen KingStory by Robert McKeeSave the Cat by Blake Snyder

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Helping you become a better writer. Join Shawn Coyne, author of Story Grid and a top editor for 30+ years, and Tim Grahl, struggling writer, as they discuss the ins and outs of what makes a story great. More at www.StoryGrid.com.

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