The Crypto Conversation

Brave New Coin

Brave New Coin's Crypto Conversation talks to the key people creating the Bitcoin, blockchain, and cryptocurrency future. Hosted by Andy Pickering, learn how this rapidly evolving industry is reshaping the world as we move towards decentralized finance, NFTs and Web3.

  1. 4d ago

    Tessera – OpenAI Exposure From a One-Dollar Solana Wallet

    Chan Ahn is Founder and CEO of Tessera, a Solana-based platform that issues tokens tracking the economic performance of late-stage private companies such as SpaceX, OpenAI, xAI and Kalshi, tradable permissionlessly on decentralized exchanges. Before crypto, Chan spent more than 15 years in traditional finance at Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan and Credit Suisse, specializing in derivatives, structured products and private markets, and he holds a PhD in computational finance from Imperial College. Why you should listen Chan's starting point is a structural shift most retail investors have not noticed. Companies are staying private far longer, and by the time they list, the valuation has grown so large that the IPO works more as a payday for insiders than an opportunity for everyone else. Pension funds and other institutions routinely hold 20 to 30 percent of their portfolios in private assets, while most individual investors hold none. Chan explains why: buying a secondary stake in a company like Kalshi typically means finding a specialist broker, clearing KYC, paying lawyers to draft bespoke documents, negotiating for weeks with no visible price, then spending another month verifying where the shares came from. From first call to closing can take three to four months, and accreditation rules keep most people from attempting it at all. Tessera's answer is a deliberate choice of structure, and Chan is unusually candid about it. Rather than tokenizing shares directly, Tessera holds the underlying stock in bankruptcy-remote entities in the Cayman Islands and issues tokens representing loan participation rights. Holders get the economic exposure but no ownership, voting or dividend rights. Chan argues this is closer to how most retail investors already hold fractional shares through a broker than they realize, and says it has allowed Tessera to obtain a legal opinion that the tokens are not securities under Singapore law. The practical result is that anyone with a Solana wallet and as little as a dollar can trade on Meteora or Jupiter without KYC, with the US, China and sanctioned jurisdictions excluded. The model has already been tested in production: SpaceX's June IPO triggered a redemption cycle, and Chan describes how the holding entity is selling down the stock, with roughly a fifth sold so far, and returning USDC to token holders pro rata. The conversation then turns to the AI listing wave. Disclosing that Tessera offers OpenAI exposure but nothing linked to Anthropic, he explains the simple discounted cash flow model he built to test Anthropic's IPO valuation. By his estimate, it requires revenue and margins to keep expanding at about 20 percent a year for a decade. He is firmly bullish on AI as a transformative technology but cautions that being right about a technology is not the same as being right about each security or the timing. In the hot take round, Chan describes himself as a Bitcoin maximalist of a particular kind: after building on Bitcoin himself, he lost faith in a Bitcoin application economy but came to see those limits as strengthening its case as a store of value in a multipolar world. He names blockchain becoming part of everyday life as his firmest conviction, with tokenization as one step toward it, and picks The Three-Body Problem as his favorite science fiction. Supporting links Stabull Finance Tessera Tessera on Twitter  Andy on Twitter Brave New Coin on Twitter Brave New Coin If you enjoyed the show please subscribe to the Crypto Conversation and give us a 5-star rating and a positive review in whatever podcast app you are using.

  2. 6d ago

    Fhenix – Privacy on a Need-to-Know Basis

    Guy Itzhaki is CEO of Fhenix, a fully homomorphic encryption (FHE) company whose CoFHE coprocessor lets smart contracts on existing EVM chains compute over encrypted data without users moving to a new chain. Itzhaki spent much of his career at Intel, where he took its SGX and TDX trusted execution environments to market and later led its FHE and blockchain initiatives, with a stint as a technology advisor for the Tokyo and Paris Olympic Games, before joining founder Guy Zyskind to launch Fhenix three years ago. Why you should listen For as long as most engineers have worked with encryption, encrypted data has been unusable until it is decrypted, whether in the open or inside secure hardware. Itzhaki, who spent years selling that secure-hardware approach at Intel, says the moment of decryption is where the risk lies, which is why FHE has long been called the holy grail of cryptography. The math has existed since Craig Gentry's breakthrough more than 15 years ago, but FHE was dismissed as too complex for anyone but specialist cryptographers and too slow for production. Itzhaki argues both objections are now largely answered. Developers building on Fhenix don't need to understand the cryptography at all, and faster algorithms running on GPUs, and eventually dedicated ASICs, keep improving performance. CoFHE went live on Ethereum and Arbitrum mainnet in October. Itzhaki sees Web3 as only the first market, and expects private queries to AI models to become feasible within two to three years. The more interesting part of the conversation is how Fhenix found its market. The company started as a privacy-focused Layer 2, then concluded the world didn't need another public chain and rebuilt itself as a coprocessor for chains developers already use. It spent its early days testing gaming, NFTs and meme coins before settling on the area where privacy matters most: financial assets moving between parties, especially stablecoins and tokenized assets. Itzhaki separates confidentiality from anonymity. Fhenix keeps senders and receivers visible so KYC and AML still work, and hides only what is in the transaction. A permit system lets an asset owner grant decryption rights to an auditor, a compliance officer or a regulator, which puts onchain data on a need-to-know basis. A dual token standard lets a single ERC-20 switch between a public mode for DeFi and a private mode for balances and payments. Early design partners show the range of uses: AlphaEngine lets traders keep strategies encrypted while liquidity providers see only a performance score, Obolos puts company cap tables and compliance rules onchain, and Fluton is building confidential payments, swaps and trading. Itzhaki is candid about the competition. He credits Zama with proving there is real demand for onchain privacy, and notes that Fhenix absorbed Sunscreen, the third early FHE team, in July. He says Fhenix differs in three ways: a second FHE scheme planned for next year, its dual token SDK, and support for EVM chains generally rather than a single chain. He also previews fUSD, a confidential token due in about a month, whose staked version, fUSDY, is meant to earn yield through partners, so private balances can still be put to work. The hot take round covers his firmest conviction that privacy matters and institutions are coming, a ten-year outlook in which AI agents run most onchain activity, and a warning that quantum attacks may arrive within roughly two years, much sooner than most people assume. He closes by admitting he is a Lord of the Rings maximalist. Supporting links Stabull Finance Fhenix Fhenix on Twitter Andy on Twitter Brave New Coin on Twitter Brave New Coin If you enjoyed the show please subscribe to the Crypto Conversation and give us a 5-star rating and a positive review in whatever podcast app you are using.

  3. Nov 5

    Conflux – Web3's Next Billion Users

    David Wei Liang is a vice president at Conflux Network, the Layer-1 blockchain built around its Tree-Graph consensus and positioned as a bridge between China's engineering ecosystem and global Web3 markets. His career has centred on distributed systems. He earned a PhD in computer science at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, studying peer-to-peer networks, followed by postdoctoral research in distributed systems. He then worked at Huawei's Noah's Ark Lab in Hong Kong and became chief blockchain expert at China Telecom, where he led work on the blockchain-enabled SIM card, BSIM. Why you should listen Most of crypto, Liang argues, competes for the same users and capital, moving them between chains with bridges, compatible tooling and higher yields. The larger opportunity sits outside that circle: close to six billion mobile subscribers, five billion internet users and billions of banking customers, plus a projected wave of AI agents that Huawei estimates could reach 900 billion by 2035. His view is that moving existing users only changes market share, while creating new demand changes the size of the market. Telecom operators, with decades of relationships with billions of subscribers and the physical networks every digital economy runs on, are in his view the most natural route in. The practical case rests on BSIM, which turns the SIM card already in everyone's phone into a secure wallet that generates and stores private keys and signs transactions without the keys ever leaving the card. Liang describes a pilot in Shanghai, a commercial deployment in Hong Kong through a licensed telecom operator combining roaming data and stablecoin payments, and an enterprise rollout with an insurance partner in Hunan. His main lesson is that people should not have to become crypto experts to use Web3, and that asking newcomers to write down a 12-word recovery phrase works against mass adoption. He sees digital identity as the most valuable starting point, linking a subscriber's network identity to a wallet with consent, so that a phone number can work as a payment address and operators could reward users for everyday calls. The conversation then moves to AI. Liang argues that agents need money software can spend in very small amounts and settle instantly, with spending limits enforced in code, and points to standards such as x402 that already make this possible. His rule for what belongs on-chain is simple: anything that needs speed stays off-chain, while anything that needs agreement, such as payments, commitments and settlement, goes on the ledger. On privacy, he argues that personal AI agents will learn far more about their users than Web2 platforms ever did, and that combining telecom identity, wallets and blockchain could let people authorize agents without handing their data to a few large companies. He closes with stablecoins including USDT0 and AxCNH now on Conflux, a network upgrade completed in October, and his test for success: Web3 wins when it disappears into everyday life, the way nobody says they are using TCP/IP. Supporting links Stabull Finance Conflux Network Conflux on X David on X Conflux developer docs Andy on X Brave New Coin on X Brave New Coin Enjoyed the episode? Please give us a five-star review. It helps other people find the show.

  4. Nov 1

    Lumia – Why AI Agents Could Become the Biggest Owners of Real-World Assets

    Michael Huynh is Chief Marketing Officer at Lumia, a blockchain built specifically for tokenized real-world assets. It aims to handle an asset's whole lifecycle, from compliant issuance to on-chain liquidity. Michael has worked full-time in crypto marketing since 2017, with Polygon, Avalanche and a few hundred other projects. He also co-founded the DCENTRAL conference series, which ran events across the US and into Asia. Why you should listen Most of the RWA conversation so far has been about putting Treasuries on-chain and trading price exposure to gold. Michael argues that this barely scratches the surface; by his estimate, only about five percent of the opportunity has been unlocked. His real estate example shows what he means. Tokenizing a house is the easy part. The hard part is everything underneath it: deed settlement, county records, property taxes. Once those are bundled into the asset, mortgages and home equity lines of credit can follow it on-chain. The same reasoning turns tokenized gold from a trading instrument into a way for a mine to finance its next production run. That breadth is how Lumia positions itself against specialists like Ondo. Michael concedes they will win their chosen verticals, while Lumia tries to cover all the asset classes nobody has taken on yet. The bigger bet is on the United States, and Michael is candid about what that costs. Lumia says it is deliberately building its US rails before the law arrives. He compares it to a racehorse that stays at the gate rather than wandering off to other tracks. The company has assembled a bipartisan bench of former Congressmen, including Tim Ryan and David McIntosh, with Gibson Dunn as counsel. The timing is pointed: the CLARITY Act failed a 49–50 cloture vote in the Senate in September. Michael says the stall was expected and that the US is still the market that matters, noting that institutions like BlackRock do not commit to a market without a path forward. He also explains LGP-01, which Lumia's community passed with 95 percent support in early October. It retires the HyperNode program through a USDT buyback of future rewards and redirects the recovered tokens into a foundation fund for growth. He presents it as removing a structure that did not fit what institutional and government partners need. The most provocative part of the conversation is about AI agents. Michael predicts, echoing Animoca Brands' Yat Siu, that agents will become the largest holders of tokenized assets. He describes agents that score an asset against its listed price before buying, which speeds up price discovery. They would also source deals and send owners a daily summary, all within whatever permissions and spending limits the owner sets. A self-driving taxi that earns income around the clock is his example of an RWA category that does not exist on-chain yet. In the hot take round, Michael keeps at least half his heart with Bitcoin. He says agents combined with RWAs could take blockchain daily active users from one million to fifty million. He also sketches a ten-year future of reputation-based agent networks and "agentic billionaires", and names The 100 as his favorite science fiction show. Supporting links Stabull Finance Lumia Lumia on Twitter Michael on Twitter Andy on Twitter Brave New Coin on Twitter Brave New Coin If you enjoyed the show please subscribe to the Crypto Conversation and give us a 5-star rating and a positive review in whatever podcast app you are using.

  5. Oct 27

    Ault Blockchain – Silver First, Then Everything Else

    Milton "Todd" Ault III is the founder of Ault Blockchain and executive chairman of Hyperscale Data (NYSE American: GPUS). Hyperscale Data is an AI data center company whose subsidiaries are building two things: Ault Blockchain, a finance-first, EVM-compatible layer one, and Ault Markets, the trading venue that sits on top of it. Ault has spent 37 years in traditional finance, starting at Dean Witter and running a hedge fund for much of that time. He has been involved with Bitcoin since 2011, later spent hundreds of millions of dollars building a mining operation, and says he was debanked around ten times before the US regulatory climate changed. Why you should listen Most new layer ones are built to trade perpetual futures. Ault thinks the bigger gap is in spot commodities. Trillions of dollars of metals trade every year, yet only about $5 billion has been tokenized, and buying physical silver still usually means a trip to a local dealer. Ault Markets opened to invited users in early October, and the group has since tokenized its first 5,000 troy ounces of silver, vaulted at The Wyoming Reserve. Ault describes the end goal: trade silver, gold, platinum, and palladium around the clock without KYC, complete KYC only when you want physical delivery, and have the metal shipped within one to three days. Behind the metals he plans tokenized convertible loans and structured notes, and he wants roughly 400 real-world assets on chain within two years. New offices in Dubai and Singapore are part of that push. Ault is unusually candid about what he would do differently. Ault Blockchain distributes its token through capped mining node licenses with a ten-year emissions schedule and no public token sale. He says he would not use that model again: the node sales raised a few million dollars, a small sum next to what he has spent. He also credits them with building a following of around 4,000 node holders. The token economics follow Hyperliquid, with nearly all DEX revenue going to buy back the protocol token. He says vendors have told him he is the first founder they have met who did not care about the token price. He is just as frank about Bitcoin. His company sold Bitcoin to help fund its Michigan campus, which has switched off its miners and moved to AI hosting under a contract the company values at up to $1.2 billion. Ault does not expect miners to switch back. He compares AI to the early internet, with one difference: the internet had an adoption problem, while AI has a capacity problem. He still calls himself something of a Bitcoin maximalist. He describes Bitcoin as the pristine collateral at the base of future finance and gives credit to Michael Saylor for reading the history of money correctly. The hot take round adds more. Ault calls himself multi-chain and predicts that reserve banking as we know it is finished. He expects more than $10 trillion in tokenized assets within a decade, and he wants the US to hold Bitcoin as a strategic reserve and issue Bitcoin-backed debt. For a sign that the future is already here, he points to onchain perps: when he asks rooms of Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley advisors whether they have used Hyperliquid, almost nobody raises a hand. On sci-fi, he names Battlestar Galactica and Star Wars before settling on The Matrix. Then, live on air, he asks his AI assistant Jenna to look up Andy, and she does. Supporting links Stabull Finance Ault Markets Ault Blockchain Ault Markets on Twitter Ault Blockchain on Twitter Todd on Twitter Andy on Twitter Brave New Coin on Twitter Brave New Coin If you enjoyed the show please subscribe to the Crypto Conversation and give us a 5-star rating and a positive review in whatever podcast app you are using.

  6. Oct 22

    Spout Finance – Let Your Stocks Pay the Interest

    Marc Ryan is Co-Founder and CEO of Spout Finance, a Solana lending protocol that lets people borrow USDC against tokenized US stocks without paying interest. Based in New York, Marc first got into crypto during the 2017 ICO boom and stayed through DeFi summer and the NFT cycle. Meanwhile he worked as a technology investment banker at HSBC, covering fintech, software and hardware, and that experience showed him how cheaply wealthy clients could borrow against their portfolios compared with everyone else. Why you should listen Spout starts from an argument about who tokenized stocks are really for. Marc points out that anyone with meaningful capital, almost anywhere in the world, can already open an Interactive Brokers account and buy US equities, so putting shares on a blockchain is not much of a breakthrough by itself. The more interesting question is what onchain stocks can do that brokerage stocks can't. His answer is a lending pool that works like Aave or Kamino, with one structural difference. Instead of charging borrowers interest, Spout sells covered calls on their collateral every week, set well above the current price, and uses the premiums to pay lenders. Borrowers can take out up to half the value of their tokenized shares in USDC. The cost shows up as a small cap on their upside, which Marc estimates averages under half a percent a year, compared with margin rates of roughly 4.5% at the cheap end and 20% or more at some emerging-market brokers. Lenders, meanwhile, earn premium income that doesn't depend on whether the stock goes up or down. The conversation also covers how a small startup positions itself in a sector that is now attracting major institutions. Marc says most of the investors in Spout's recent $2 million round were chosen for what they bring beyond money. Anchorage Digital provides the institutional custody that large funds require, Solana is the chain he considers best suited for bringing retail onto financial assets, and former CFTC Chairman Chris Giancarlo advises on navigating US regulation. Marc also explains why Spout gave up issuing its own tokenized shares. Running issuance alongside a lending protocol created too much legal and corporate overhead, so the team chose to be a permissionless layer that works with every issuer instead of competing with them. Most of those issuers wrap shares held with a custodian such as Alpaca. Marc contrasts that with native issuance from firms like Securitize and Superstate, where the shares themselves live onchain and can be self-custodied. That distinction frames his view of the current regulatory fight. After a batch of companies objected to having their shares tokenized on OKXICE, the joint venture between OKX and NYSE owner ICE, under the SEC's new Innovation Exemption, Marc argues that wrappers will keep serving offshore investors. US access, in his view, will come through native issuance or closer work with the DTCC. He is candid that a Spout token is undecided. If one launches, it would boost lender rates and allow options to be sold further out of the money. In the hot take round, Marc places himself between Bitcoin maximalism and multi-chain opportunism. He says every public equity will eventually move onchain, describes how AI agents now run parts of his own business, and names Back to the Future as his favorite film. Supporting links Stabull Finance Spout Finance Spout Finance on Twitter Marc on Twitter Andy on Twitter Brave New Coin on Twitter Brave New Coin If you enjoyed the show please subscribe to the Crypto Conversation and give us a 5-star rating and a positive review in whatever podcast app you are using.

  7. Oct 20

    Casper – Why AI Agents Need Their Own Payment Rails

    Michael Steuer is President and CTO of the Casper Association, the Swiss non-profit behind Casper Network, a proof-of-stake Layer 1 built for regulated real-world assets and payments between AI agents. Born in Amsterdam and based in Los Angeles for more than two decades, Michael has spent around 30 years in technology. That includes a stint as CTO for mobile at THQ, where his team shipped some of the first downloadable mobile games. He then co-founded Casper in 2018, built much of its ecosystem tooling through his company MAKE, and returned to lead the project in 2024. Why you should listen Casper's origin story starts inside Ethereum's own research group, where its proof-of-stake design was first developed. Michael and his co-founders wagered that enterprises would need something Ethereum wasn't going to deliver quickly: a chain that companies with thousands of existing engineers could build on using the languages, testing and deployment processes they already have. Just as important was certainty. Michael explains why the probabilistic finality retail users tolerate, waiting through confirmations before an exchange releases funds, is unacceptable for an institution moving billions. During that window nobody can say who is legally responsible for the money, so Casper was designed so that a transaction belongs to the recipient from the very next block. He applies the same realism to tokenization. Minting a token that claims to represent an asset takes a minute, he says, but making that token confer enforceable rights is the hard part. Through the ERC-3643 standard and the T-REX Network, Casper is working to make compliance data, such as investor eligibility, jurisdictional limits and holding periods, travel with an asset as it moves between chains. The second half of the conversation turns to what Michael sees as the larger opportunity. Cloudflare now reports that bots generate more web traffic than humans, yet almost no website can sell anything to them. Sign-ups, logins, card forms and terms-and-conditions boxes were all built for people. His answer is x402, a dormant payment code from the early HTTP specification that Coinbase and Circle revived as a standard for agents to pay per request. Casper is a founding member of the x402 Foundation, which now sits under the Linux Foundation, and settles those payments in its own dollar stablecoin, csprUSD. Payouts.com recently adopted Casper as the settlement rail for its AI agent products. Michael argues that companies blocking agents are turning away most of their visitors. He also expects stablecoin tribalism to disappear, because an agent shouldn't care which dollar it spends. That emphasis on ease of use is the thread through the final stretch. Michael says crypto's usage remains in the single-digit percentages of the global population after 16 years largely because the industry made it so hard to use, from seed phrases to incompatible wallets, and warns against repeating that mistake with agents and tokenized assets. He makes the case for the CSPR token as a utility asset whose value tracks network usage, citing a staking yield he puts at around 10 to 11 percent alongside native liquid staking, and the recent Kraken listing for US access. In the hot take round he calls himself a multi-chain opportunist and argues that blockchain should never try to be the answer to everything. He predicts a decade defined by the convergence of TradFi and DeFi and by agentic traffic approaching totality. He also notes that most people don't realize they can hold tokenized stock exposure in a wallet and borrow against it, and names Foundation as his sci-fi pick. Supporting links Stabull Finance Casper Network Casper on Twitter Michael on Twitter Andy on Twitter Brave New Coin on Twitter Brave New Coin If you enjoyed the show please subscribe to the Crypto Conversation and give us a 5-star rating and a positive review in whatever podcast app you are using.

  8. Oct 15

    Orbs – DeFi's Next Big Users Are Banks and Bots

    Ran Hammer is CEO at Orbs, a decentralized Layer-3 blockchain that works behind the scenes for DEXs. It gives smart contracts the automation and execution logic they lack on their own, which powers limit orders, TWAP, liquidity aggregation and perpetual futures across dozens of venues. Ran is an Israeli based in London and a former high-tech M&A lawyer. He has been with Orbs since its 2017 beginnings, working as general counsel, then in business development, then as chief business officer, before taking over as CEO in September. Why you should listen Ran came to crypto the way many lawyers of his generation did. In 2015 a university friend and future Orbs co-founder, Daniel Peled, told him he had raised money for his startup in Bitcoin. Within two years Ran was the rare attorney at a reputable firm who understood the technology, and he spent the 2017 ICO boom advising clients who wanted to do things by the book when no book existed yet. Nine years into Orbs, he explains plainly what the project is: a proof-of-stake network with no TVL or DEXs of its own, which supplies the automation and logic that smart contracts can't perform by themselves. That makes Orbs nearly invisible to the traders who use it. Ran is candid that this is good for users and difficult for a project whose token benefits from retail recognition. He also acknowledges that the market has moved enough that a small pivot is needed for Orbs to stay relevant. His view of the current market is sober. The yield chasing of DeFi summer has mostly gone. Many retail traders left after the October 10, 2025 liquidation cascade and did not return. The activity that remains is increasingly professional, ranging from two-person trading teams running bots to BlackRock buying spot assets for its ETFs, which is why Ran prefers the term "on-chain finance." He calls Hyperliquid the most successful dApp to date. He also argues that most DEXs, even ones that dominate their ecosystems, cannot build Hyperliquid-level order book depth. Orbs' answer is Perpetual Hub Ultra 2.0, an intent-based model in which hedgers take the other side of trades and offset them across Binance, Hyperliquid, Lighter, Variational, Aster and other venues. Users get pairs from all of those markets on whatever chain they're on, with a single collateral. QuickSwap has already made it the default perps engine across its chains. Ran says he rarely opens Google or Gmail anymore. He runs most of his online life through a Telegram bot on OpenClaw, with Anthropic and OpenAI models working in loops. That habit led Orbs to repackage its products as an MCP and an agent skill, and to think seriously about how a protocol gets discovered when an AI agent, rather than a person, chooses which tools to use. He says the Orbs swap skill now outranks bigger, better-funded projects on adoption, while noting that actual agentic trading volume is still smaller than the hype suggests. He also covers the recently passed OIP-9 DAO vote, upcoming Season 1 tokenomics built on revenue-funded buybacks and burns, and record staking levels despite a token he openly says is underpriced. In the hot take round, Ran calls himself 80 percent Bitcoin maximalist. He predicts that within ten years banks will provide liquidity and trade through AMMs instead of OTC desks, and says most people still underestimate what today's AI tools can do. Supporting links Stabull Finance Orbs Orbs on Twitter Ran on Twitter Andy on Twitter Brave New Coin on Twitter Brave New Coin If you enjoyed the show please subscribe to the Crypto Conversation and give us a 5-star rating and a positive review in whatever podcast app you are using.

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Brave New Coin's Crypto Conversation talks to the key people creating the Bitcoin, blockchain, and cryptocurrency future. Hosted by Andy Pickering, learn how this rapidly evolving industry is reshaping the world as we move towards decentralized finance, NFTs and Web3.

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