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Lean Blog Interviews: Real-World Lean Leadership Conversations in Healthcare and Beyond

Mark Graban Podcasts
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Lean Blog Interviews: Real-World Lean Leadership Conversations features thoughtful, in-depth discussions with leaders, authors, executives, and practitioners who are applying Lean thinking in the real world. Hosted by Mark Graban—author of Lean Hospitals, Measures of Success, and The Mistakes That Make Us—the podcast explores Lean as a management system, a leadership philosophy, and a people-centered approach to continuous improvement. Episodes span healthcare, manufacturing, startups, technology, and professional services. Guests share candid stories about what actually works—and what doesn’t—when organizations try to improve. This is not a podcast about chasing tools, jargon, or “Lean theater.” Instead, you’ll hear honest conversations about leadership behaviors, culture, psychological safety, learning from mistakes, and building systems that help people do their best work. If you believe improvement starts with respect for people—and that better systems beat blaming individuals—this podcast is for you. Find show notes and all episodes at LeanCast.org. Learn more about Mark Graban at MarkGraban.com.

  1. Preconditions for Lean: Psychological Safety and Model 1 vs Model 2 Leadership with Thomas Cox and Andre DeMerchant

    24 juni

    Preconditions for Lean: Psychological Safety and Model 1 vs Model 2 Leadership with Thomas Cox and Andre DeMerchant

    Why do so many Lean implementations struggle or fail to stick? Thomas Cox and Andre DeMerchant join me to work through that question using a verbal A3. Thomas Cox is a management bench builder, co-founder of the Transformative Leadership Lab, and a certified Harada Method coach trainer. Andre DeMerchant is president of DeMerchant Healthcare Solutions and a former Toyota team member who started as a forklift driver at Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada and rose to manufacturing manager. He's also a returning guest from episode 307. The core idea: Lean asks people to surface problems, admit mistakes, and stop the line without fear. That requires psychological safety, and psychological safety has to exist before Lean gets rolled out. It can't be created by the rollout itself. Drawing on Chris Argyris, Thomas frames the problem as Model 1 behavior (controlling, self-protective, blame-oriented, closed off) versus Model 2 (calm, curious, empathic, non-defensive). Under pressure, most leaders default to Model 1, which is the opposite of what Lean needs. Along the way we get into Andre's contrast between meat-packing management meetings (where having no problems was the goal) and Toyota meetings (where showing up without a problem marked you as the person who didn't understand the work). We also talk about Alan Mulally banning sarcasm at Ford, Mark Fields reporting red and getting applause instead of fired, the carrot-and-stick fallacy, McGregor's Theory X and Theory Y, and the uncomfortable question of whether consultants succeed because of method or because they cherry-pick clients. Thomas and Andre have published their A3 as a living document and built an assessment for gauging how close a C-suite is to the preconditions Lean needs. Links in the show notes. Episode page with links and more  Companies and people referenced: Toyota, Ford, General Motors, Kimberly-Clark, Salem Health, W. Edwards Deming, Chris Argyris, Douglas McGregor, Peter Senge, John Shook, Norman Bodek, Jim Prinzing.

    55 min
  2. Psychological Safety and Autonomy in a Lean Culture with Gary Peterson

    10 juni

    Psychological Safety and Autonomy in a Lean Culture with Gary Peterson

    My guest for episode 546 is Gary Peterson, who recently retired from O.C. Tanner after helping lead the continuous improvement work that earned the company the Shingo Prize in 1999. Gary is an AME Hall of Fame inductee, and he now serves as an executive in residence at the Ohio State University Fisher College of Business, working with their Master of Business Operational Excellence (MBOE) program. Gary started this work almost 40 years ago, before the word Lean was in common use. A change in how O.C. Tanner went to market shrank order sizes from thousands down to one or two, and a factory built for big batches started bleeding cost and quality. Gary stepped into a role called facilitator of change. He pulled departments apart, built one-piece flow, and asked frontline people to solve problems in a culture that had taught them it wasn't safe to speak up. We spend a good part of the conversation on psychological safety and autonomy, and why Gary thinks neither one does much without the other. He also tells what he calls the hardest story in his repertoire. An employee stopped him on a stairwell to tell him his system wasn't working. She was right. He talked circles around her until she cried. What he did next, and what two people did a few hours later, became a turning point for him and for the company. Topics we get into: Why a real business problem made the change easier to sustain than a "we read a book" mandate Leading change from the middle without support from the top Cutting a 1,800-person workforce roughly in half through attrition, with no layoffs, while raising the bar on what it meant to work there Momentum, entropy, and the 30 to 40 systems that quietly stopped during COVID Building succession so the culture didn't depend on Gary's energy alone Sincere, specific, timely praise, and why he coached frontline teams differently than VPs Link to the episode and full transcript. What would it take for you to tell a room full of people that you don't know what you're doing?

    1 tim 2 min

  3. 3 juni • Endast för abonnenter

    $ Psychological Safety and Autonomy in a Lean Culture with Gary Peterson

    My guest for episode 546 is Gary Peterson, who recently retired from O.C. Tanner after helping lead the continuous improvement work that earned the company the Shingo Prize in 1999. Gary is an AME Hall of Fame inductee, and he now serves as an executive in residence at the Ohio State University Fisher College of Business, working with their Master of Business Operational Excellence (MBOE) program. Gary started this work almost 40 years ago, before the word Lean was in common use. A change in how O.C. Tanner went to market shrank order sizes from thousands down to one or two, and a factory built for big batches started bleeding cost and quality. Gary stepped into a role called facilitator of change. He pulled departments apart, built one-piece flow, and asked frontline people to solve problems in a culture that had taught them it wasn't safe to speak up. We spend a good part of the conversation on psychological safety and autonomy, and why Gary thinks neither one does much without the other. He also tells what he calls the hardest story in his repertoire. An employee stopped him on a stairwell to tell him his system wasn't working. She was right. He talked circles around her until she cried. What he did next, and what two people did a few hours later, became a turning point for him and for the company. Topics we get into: Why a real business problem made the change easier to sustain than a "we read a book" mandate Leading change from the middle without support from the top Cutting a 1,800-person workforce roughly in half through attrition, with no layoffs, while raising the bar on what it meant to work there Momentum, entropy, and the 30 to 40 systems that quietly stopped during COVID Building succession so the culture didn't depend on Gary's energy alone Sincere, specific, timely praise, and why he coached frontline teams differently than VPs What would it take for you to tell a room full of people that you don't know what you're doing?

    1 tim 2 min

  4. 27 maj

    Jeff Liker, Twenty Years Later: The Ideas That Keep Showing Up

    Jeff Liker was guest number three on this podcast back in August 2006. He has been back seven times since, which makes him one of the most frequent guests in the show's history. For this episode, I pulled clips from across those eight conversations, going back almost twenty years. What stood out on the relisten was how much hasn't changed. The lean tools are better known now. There are more books, more case studies, more conferences. The deeper thing Jeff was naming in 2006 - that companies want the words without the work - is the same thing he is still saying in 2026. These aren't his greatest hits. They are the ideas that keep showing up. In this episode, Jeff talks about: The two percent problem: why so few companies have deeply implemented TPS as a system, even after decades of trying How long real transformation takes when Toyota opens a brand new plant under ideal conditions (hint: it isn't fourteen weeks) Why "picking and choosing" lean practices often reinforces the existing management system instead of changing it Fujio Cho on what was hardest to teach Americans about TPS, and why he had to walk the floor every day to teach it Andon, hansei, and why we keep trying to implement a "perfect" lean system instead of a flawed one we can improve The non-negotiables in Toyota Culture, including how Toyota responds when a purchasing manager wants to shut down a US supplier to save thirty percent "Don't skip hats" - what Jeff learned at the UK plant about roles, authority, and going to the gemba to observe rather than solve The difference between the five whys and the five whos, and why the goal isn't the deepest root cause but a controllable one Read the full post with quotes and more at https://leanblog.org/545

    21 min

  5. 21 maj • Endast för abonnenter

    $ Jeff Liker, Twenty Years Later: The Ideas That Keep Showing Up

    Jeff Liker was guest number three on this podcast back in August 2006. He has been back seven times since, which makes him one of the most frequent guests in the show's history. For this episode, I pulled clips from across those eight conversations, going back almost twenty years. What stood out on the relisten was how much hasn't changed. The lean tools are better known now. There are more books, more case studies, more conferences. The deeper thing Jeff was naming in 2006 - that companies want the words without the work - is the same thing he is still saying in 2026. These aren't his greatest hits. They are the ideas that keep showing up. In this episode, Jeff talks about: The two percent problem: why so few companies have deeply implemented TPS as a system, even after decades of trying How long real transformation takes when Toyota opens a brand new plant under ideal conditions (hint: it isn't fourteen weeks) Why "picking and choosing" lean practices often reinforces the existing management system instead of changing it Fujio Cho on what was hardest to teach Americans about TPS, and why he had to walk the floor every day to teach it Andon, hansei, and why we keep trying to implement a "perfect" lean system instead of a flawed one we can improve The non-negotiables in Toyota Culture, including how Toyota responds when a purchasing manager wants to shut down a US supplier to save thirty percent "Don't skip hats" - what Jeff learned at the UK plant about roles, authority, and going to the gemba to observe rather than solve The difference between the five whys and the five whos, and why the goal isn't the deepest root cause but a controllable one Read the full post with quotes and timestamps at https://leanblog.org/545

    21 min
  6. Chad Diggs on Building Quality Systems, Not Heroes

    20 maj

    Chad Diggs on Building Quality Systems, Not Heroes

    Why do so many quality programs fall apart the moment the firefighter walks out the door? My guest for this episode of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Chad Diggs, a quality management professional, consultant, author, and founder of DIQ (Digging Into Quality), an AI-powered quality platform built for mid-market manufacturers. Chad leads a team of quality engineers supporting first article inspection reviews for customers including Boeing, Collins Aerospace, and Honeywell. Chad recently released his book, Below the Surface: Building Quality Systems, Not Heroes -- a practitioner's guide written as a story rather than a textbook. The narrative follows a quality manager named Christina Valles through pressures most quality leaders will recognize: shipping bad parts to hit a date, getting blamed for problems built into the system, and watching the same fires get fought again the next month. We talk about why Chad chose a narrative format, the cost-of-poor-quality math that finally gets leadership's attention in the story (the number was 25 percent of revenue), and the difference between investigating where a defect happened and investigating who to blame for it. Toward the end of the conversation, I share Isao Yoshino's story from his early Toyota days -- the one where management apologized to him after he put the wrong solvent in the paint line. It is a useful contrast to how most companies still respond to that kind of mistake. Topics covered: Chad's path from a warehouse role to a 20-year quality career The opening scene of the book: a contaminated solvent and a VP who says, "12 percent failures? I can live with that." Leaders who walk the floor productively, and leaders who walk the floor and create chaos Why "cost of poor quality" is such an underused argument inside companies What a blameless investigation actually looks like Psychological safety and Amy Edmondson's work on The Fearless Organization Why firefighting feels like a badge of honor and why that is a problem Real succession planning for quality leaders DIQ, the platform Chad is building for mid-market manufacturers Get the book and learn more at https://digin2quality.com Read the full show notes and transcript at https://leanblog.org/544 The podcast is brought to you by Stiles Associates, the premier executive search firm specializing in the placement of Lean Transformation executives. Learn more at https://leanexecs.com/podcast This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

    59 min

  7. 13 maj • Endast för abonnenter

    $ Chad Diggs on Building Quality Systems, Not Heroes

    EARLY ACCESS FOR SUBSCRIBERS Why do so many quality programs fall apart the moment the firefighter walks out the door? My guest for this episode of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Chad Diggs, a quality management professional, consultant, author, and founder of DIQ (Digging Into Quality), an AI-powered quality platform built for mid-market manufacturers. Chad leads a team of quality engineers supporting first article inspection reviews for customers including Boeing, Collins Aerospace, and Honeywell. Chad recently released his book, Below the Surface: Building Quality Systems, Not Heroes -- a practitioner's guide written as a story rather than a textbook. The narrative follows a quality manager named Christina Valles through pressures most quality leaders will recognize: shipping bad parts to hit a date, getting blamed for problems built into the system, and watching the same fires get fought again the next month. We talk about why Chad chose a narrative format, the cost-of-poor-quality math that finally gets leadership's attention in the story (the number was 25 percent of revenue), and the difference between investigating where a defect happened and investigating who to blame for it. Toward the end of the conversation, I share Isao Yoshino's story from his early Toyota days -- the one where management apologized to him after he put the wrong solvent in the paint line. It is a useful contrast to how most companies still respond to that kind of mistake. Topics covered: Chad's path from a warehouse role to a 20-year quality career The opening scene of the book: a contaminated solvent and a VP who says, "12 percent failures? I can live with that." Leaders who walk the floor productively, and leaders who walk the floor and create chaos Why "cost of poor quality" is such an underused argument inside companies What a blameless investigation actually looks like Psychological safety and Amy Edmondson's work on The Fearless Organization Why firefighting feels like a badge of honor and why that is a problem Real succession planning for quality leaders DIQ, the platform Chad is building for mid-market manufacturers Get the book and learn more at https://digin2quality.com Read the full show notes and transcript at https://leanblog.org/544 The podcast is brought to you by Stiles Associates, the premier executive search firm specializing in the placement of Lean Transformation executives. Learn more at https://leanexecs.com/podcast This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

    59 min
  8. Why Most People Aren't Really Thinking -- Scott Burgmeyer on Cognitive Biases and Leadership

    29 apr.

    Why Most People Aren't Really Thinking -- Scott Burgmeyer on Cognitive Biases and Leadership

    Most people think they're thinking. Scott Burgmeyer says they're mostly just reacting. Scott is the founder and CEO of Become More Group and coauthor of Think: The Road Less Traveled. In this episode, we dig into why smart, well-intentioned leaders keep making the same avoidable decisions -- and what to do about it. Episode page with links and more We cover the cognitive shortcuts that run in the background without us noticing, the ROAD thinking methodology, why AI won't be the differentiator most organizations are hoping for, and what it actually takes to build a culture where real thinking happens. Scott also shares the three growth questions he uses after every client meeting -- a simple practice that compounds fast. If you've ever watched a team fix the same problem twice and wondered why, this one's for you.

    55 min
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Lean Blog Interviews: Real-World Lean Leadership Conversations features thoughtful, in-depth discussions with leaders, authors, executives, and practitioners who are applying Lean thinking in the real world. Hosted by Mark Graban—author of Lean Hospitals, Measures of Success, and The Mistakes That Make Us—the podcast explores Lean as a management system, a leadership philosophy, and a people-centered approach to continuous improvement. Episodes span healthcare, manufacturing, startups, technology, and professional services. Guests share candid stories about what actually works—and what doesn’t—when organizations try to improve. This is not a podcast about chasing tools, jargon, or “Lean theater.” Instead, you’ll hear honest conversations about leadership behaviors, culture, psychological safety, learning from mistakes, and building systems that help people do their best work. If you believe improvement starts with respect for people—and that better systems beat blaming individuals—this podcast is for you. Find show notes and all episodes at LeanCast.org. Learn more about Mark Graban at MarkGraban.com.

Information

  • Kanal
    Mark Graban Podcasts
  • Skapad av
    Mark Graban
  • Aktiva år
    2006 - 2026
  • Avsnitt
    608
  • Åldersgräns
    Barnvänligt
  • Copyright
    © All content copyright Mark Graban & Constancy, Inc, 2006 - present
  • Programmets webbplats
    Lean Blog Interviews: Real-World Lean Leadership Conversations in Healthcare and Beyond
  • Leverantör

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