THE KEN PREMIUM

Listen to full episodes 1-4 weeks before others

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Two by Two

The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

  1. ‘Free the rupee. Let it go’—How to save the market from investors

    −1 d • Endast för The Ken Premium

    ‘Free the rupee. Let it go’—How to save the market from investors

    Everything around the Indian economy looks shaky, i.e., a months-long conflict, a sliding rupee, and a government telling people to stop buying gold. Except for one important caveat: India’s market continues to hold on. The Sensex and Nifty have barely moved. The reason why that seems to be happening is pretty simple — every month, Indian households pour ₹31,000 crore into equity through SIP (Systematic Investment Plans), and that steady flow is exactly the liquidity foreign investors are using to sell down and leave without crashing anything. So the rupee slides, the RBI burns reserves to slow the fall, and the saver gets squeezed from both ends. Eventually, they are told to stay in the market and to stop buying gold. Essentially, the Indian saver is not just holding the market up - they may be funding the exit.Praveen puts that thesis to two of the sharpest minds in Indian markets, and they spend the next ninety minutes taking it apart. Anupam Manur argues that foreigners are leaving for real, structural reasons and puts forward a “triple loss” argument, which says that propping up an overvalued market is the way because the Indian saver has nowhere else to go. Deepak Shenoy, on the other hand, argues we're worried about the wrong thing entirely: foreigners still hold most of their money here, we've seen this exact exit before, and the SIP saver isn't going anywhere. Where they land together is stranger than where they started, with specific fixes and policy changes that they’d do in this current situation. The most provocative one is the one that Deepak puts across - "Free the rupee. Let it go. It'll come back."This episode is a conversation about who really owns the Indian market, whether the SIP saver is a floor, and what India would actually have to do to break the loop.GuestsAnupam Manur — Professor of Economics, Takshashila Institution Deepak Shenoy — Founder & CEO, CapitalmindReferencesAnupam's piece: Taxing Mobile Capital and the Limits of Domestic Absorption (Takshashila) Deepak on X: @DeepakShenoy

    1 tim 10 min
  2. Where are Emergent’s users?

    4 juni • Endast för The Ken Premium

    Where are Emergent’s users?

    Emergent, the vibe-coding startup, has a $100 million annual run rate and 6 million users across 190 countries. Plus, it’s backed by the biggest names in the industry—Khosla Ventures, SoftBank, Google, Lightspeed, and Y Combinator. By most conventional measures, Emergent is the most successful consumer AI startup to come out of India, and is one of the fastest-growing companies anywhere in the world right now.But there’s something strange about Emergent—its users seem to be “invisible”.Historically, all great consumer products follow the same script. It begins with a small, fanatical cohort who discovers it. Those users can’t stop talking about it—on forums, in group chats, at their desks, and on social media. Sometimes, referral codes and invites are sold at a premium online. Word of mouth becomes the engine. Then paid marketing arrives, pouring fuel on a fire that the early users started. All popular consumer products in India, from Cred, Zomato, and Groww, followed a variant of this playbook. And that’s true for AI companies as well. Cursor got so popular with developers that it practically became a verb. Lovable created a culture where users couldn’t stop sharing all the beautiful websites they’d vibe-coded. And when Claude went down for a few minutes, the internet came to a halt.Emergent has none of that. Search for it on Hacker News, and you’ll struggle to find anyone talking about it. All the stuff that other AI companies seem to have, i.e., the showcase culture, the loyal cohort, the community of users, seems to be missing. How do we square Emergent’s extraordinary revenue with its equally perplexing invisible users?That’s the question that we try to answer.And to do that, Praveen sits down with Gaurav Bisen, founder of Masonry AI and the person who built Emergent’s early growth engine—zero to $20 million ARR in 120 days with zero paid ads, and with Sumanth Raghavendra, co-founder of Presentations.AI and serial entrepreneur who has watched the same pattern play out with his own product. Praveen comes in as a skeptic who wants to be convinced, searching for evidence that explains Emergent’s invisible users. And Gaurav and Sumanth argue that Emergent’s missing users isn’t a bug but was most probably a feature. References: Emergent founder Mukund Jha’s job depends on not worrying about the next AI model ( https://the-ken.com/story/how-softbank-backed-emergent-is-scripting-a-vibe-coding-playbook-by-taking-on-ai-giants/ )

    1 tim 23 min
  3. Amazon’s quick commerce wildcard is Prime

    28 maj • Endast för The Ken Premium

    Amazon’s quick commerce wildcard is Prime

    There are two ways to tell the quick commerce story in India. The first, and the more conventional way this narrative exists is that quick-commerce is a three-way race between Blinkit, which has pulled ahead with 2,200 dark stores and a roughly half-market share lead, Zepto, which has packed 21 stores per city in a metro saturation play, and Instamart, which sits squeezed in the middle. Every metric the category tracks was built around the assumption that this will be contested on the same set of metrics i.e. dark stores, per-store profitability, density, contribution margin, AOV, etc. But there’s a second narrative that’s unfolding. Amazon has walked into quick-commerce, with its latest offering–Amazon Now. And unlike everyone, it has a singular weapon that none of the others has. On the Q1 2026 earnings call, Andy Jassy spoke less about dark stores, delivery times, or city counts. Instead, he specifically cited one number—Prime members tripling their shopping frequency once they start using Amazon Now, with orders growing 25% month over month. Essentially, Amazon is fighting the quick-commerce battle with a different set of numbers, which measures something different from what the rest of the category measures. Amazon owns something that the others don’t, i.e., the consumers themselves, who are locked into it through a subscription product, Prime. This unlocks possibilities for a new kind of flywheel to emerge. In this episode, Praveen sits down with Vishal Gahlaut (chief business officer, Hopscotch; ex-Myntra) and Aditya Suresh (head of India Equity Research, Macquarie Capital) to work through whether Prime is the asset that finally lets Amazon do in quick commerce what it couldn’t do in e-commerce, payments, or groceries—or whether the category has already moved past where Amazon thinks it is. They discuss stuff like: The shift from Manish Tiwary’s tenure to Samir Kumar’s “Prime as the path to profitability” mandate, and what it reveals about how Amazon Now is being built internally The supply-side convergence math—five players targeting roughly 1,000–1,200 dark stores each within six months, sitting on the same points on the map—and what happens to unit economics when everyone arrives at the same density at the same time The single metric Aditya is watching at Blinkit to know whether Amazon’s pressure is actually working. Predictions for 2030, which are split into three different ways across the table. References:Inside Samir Kumar’s plan to bring order to Amazon India’s chaos ( https://the-ken.com/story/inside-samir-kumars-plan-to-bring-order-to-amazon-indias-chaos/ )

    1 tim 10 min
  4. Amazon’s quick-commerce wildcard is Prime

    28 maj • Endast för The Ken Premium

    Amazon’s quick-commerce wildcard is Prime

    There are two ways to tell the quick commerce story in India. The first, and the more conventional way this narrative exists is that quick-commerce is a three-way race between Blinkit, which has pulled ahead with 2,200 dark stores and a roughly half-market share lead, Zepto, which has packed 21 stores per city in a metro saturation play, and Instamart, which sits squeezed in the middle. Every metric the category tracks was built around the assumption that this will be contested on the same set of metrics i.e. dark stores, per-store profitability, density, contribution margin, AOV, etc. But there’s a second narrative that’s unfolding. Amazon has walked into quick-commerce, with its latest offering–Amazon Now. And unlike everyone, it has a singular weapon that none of the others has. On the Q1 2026 earnings call, Andy Jassy spoke less about dark stores, delivery times, or city counts. Instead, he specifically cited one number—Prime members tripling their shopping frequency once they start using Amazon Now, with orders growing 25% month over month. Essentially, Amazon is fighting the quick-commerce battle with a different set of numbers, which measures something different from what the rest of the category measures. Amazon owns something that the others don’t, i.e., the consumers themselves, who are locked into it through a subscription product, Prime. This unlocks possibilities for a new kind of flywheel to emerge. In this episode, Praveen sits down with Vishal Gahlaut (chief business officer, Hopscotch; ex-Myntra) and Aditya Suresh (head of India Equity Research, Macquarie Capital) to work through whether Prime is the asset that finally lets Amazon do in quick commerce what it couldn’t do in e-commerce, payments, or groceries—or whether the category has already moved past where Amazon thinks it is. They discuss stuff like: The shift from Manish Tiwary’s tenure to Samir Kumar’s “Prime as the path to profitability” mandate, and what it reveals about how Amazon Now is being built internally The supply-side convergence math—five players targeting roughly 1,000–1,200 dark stores each within six months, sitting on the same points on the map—and what happens to unit economics when everyone arrives at the same density at the same time The single metric Aditya is watching at Blinkit to know whether Amazon's pressure is actually working. Predictions for 2030, which are split into three different ways across the table. References: Inside Samir Kumar’s plan to bring order to Amazon India’s chaos ( https://the-ken.com/story/inside-samir-kumars-plan-to-bring-order-to-amazon-indias-chaos/ )

    1 tim 10 min
  5. Everyone bet on PhonePe and CRED. Bajaj Finance got there first.

    21 maj • Endast för The Ken Premium

    Everyone bet on PhonePe and CRED. Bajaj Finance got there first.

    These days it’s fashionable to have an AI story, no matter what you do. But in December 2024, Bajaj Finance took it a few steps further. Instead of calling itself "a lender investing in AI," it started to describe itself as a "FinAI company" - a category of one, which it committed to in a five-year plan to FY29. Eighteen months in, no other Indian lender is putting AI on their slides the way Bajaj Finance is. Here are some of them : 31 million voice interactions converted into data last quarter. 27 autonomous agents live, 118 more planned. 600,000 loans on a single Diwali day, up from a pre-AI ceiling of 100,000. And next Diwali, they're aiming for a million. A few years ago, the obvious answer to who would win Indian finance's AI era was the digital natives — PhonePe, CRED, the cloud-born fintechs with no call centres and zero baggage. Instead, the company that started financing two-wheelers and still runs one of India's largest outbound calling operations is out in front. The thing that looked like Bajaj's archaic legacy is turning out to be its moat. What else did Bajaj Finance have that got it here? And how long before the others get there too? Praveen is joined by Seetharaman G, Deputy Editor at The Ken, who just spent 5.5 hours on Bajaj's history for Intermission, The Ken’s new longform video podcast — and Vasuta Agarwal, Chief Revenue Officer at Gnani.ai, which which provides Voice AI to enterprises. The episode works through four pieces of Bajaj's edge: the data it built around its consumer-durables network, the incentive of being a publicly listed NBFC without access to cheap deposits, the leverage of buying from a voice AI market with dozens of competing vendors, and the DNA that may not be replicable i.e the willingness to fight for every inch, sustained under one CEO since 2007. References: Intermission Ep 2 on Bajaj Finance : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhgvdo9rb0w ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhgvdo9rb0w ) Bajaj Finance is the AI bar-raiser, not Indian fintechs: https://the-ken.com/kaching/bajaj-finance-is-the-ai-bar-raiser-not-indian-fintechs/ ( https://the-ken.com/kaching/bajaj-finance-is-the-ai-bar-raiser-not-indian-fintechs/ )

    1 tim 18 min
  6. Groww beat every odd to get here. What beats it next?

    14 maj

    Groww beat every odd to get here. What beats it next?

    In 2017, four ex-Flipkart engineers made a bet to build a company that let anyone buy mutual funds directly, with no commissions or hidden fees. Nine years later, Groww is India’s largest stockbroker by active clients, its most profitable consumer fintech, and the first major Y Combinator portfolio company in India to go public. Rs 1,824 crore net profit in FY25. 83% organic customer acquisition. It even paid Rs 1,340 crore in taxes to move its holding company back from Delaware to India, then listed on Indian public markets at an IPO subscribed 17 times over. Every decision looked risky at the time and obvious in retrospect. But Groww in 2026 is not Groww in 2017. The company that built trust by doing one thing exceptionally well is now building lending, wealth management, insurance, and its own AMC. Praveen sits down with Anand Kalyanaraman, finance editor of The Ken, who has tracked Groww since its earliest days, and Avinash Luthria, founder of Fiduciaries and one of eight SEBI-registered investment advisors who charges only an hourly fee. Praveen comes in with a strong prior—that Groww is one of the most consequential Indian companies of the last decade. His guests are here to disagree and add context to his claim. Anand comes in with the perspective of whether the valuation is justified, and Avinash on whether the business models and incentives that brokerage companies have so far can help them go ahead. And the question everyone discusses: can the company that won by being simple stay trusted as it becomes everything? Additional reading:  https://the-ken.com/podcasts/first-principles/lalit-keshre-groww/ https://the-ken.com/story/growws-ipo-pitch-we-are-more-than-a-discount-broker-investors-really-show-us/

    1 tim 4 min
  7. Hyrox gave India a finish line. What happens after you cross it?

    30 apr.

    Hyrox gave India a finish line. What happens after you cross it?

    Eighteen months ago, Hyrox did not exist in India. Last month, 8,200 people paid Rs 9,000 each to do a sled push at the Bangalore International Exhibition Centre. Attendees described the event as a “carnival”, and for several weeks, everyone was talking and proudly sharing their Hyrox timings. If you’re wondering what on earth is going on, well, this episode is for you. Fitness as an event isn’t new in India. Every wave of participative fitness in India solved something the previous one couldn’t. Marathons gave the urban professional class a finish line and an identity. Crossfit gave them a tribe and a daily ritual. Both peaked, both retreated, both ended up circling the same thin, affluent cohort in Bengaluru and Mumbai. Now Hyrox has arrived, and in one season blown past anything either of those formats built in India. The question is whether Hyrox is the next iteration of the same product, or something fundamentally different. Then there’s the business side of it. Hyrox is a premium commercial format, with revenue lines through event tickets, a global licensing model, a PUMA deal, and a middleman at every layer between the participant and the finish line. That commercial stack sits on top of a culture that markets itself on community and participation. Does that accelerate the fitness ecosystem or does it extract from it? And to find out that answer, Praveen Gopal Krishnan sits with two guests: Prasanna Akela is the cofounder of Belong, a personal training studio in Bengaluru. Before Belong, Prasanna was an early growth leader at companies like CRED, Apple, and Uber India. He’s also competed at the national level in ultimate frisbee and has trained extensively in endurance and strength. He brings the operator’s view: what does someone building a fitness business in India actually see when a global format like Hyrox walks in? “I’ve not seen this culture of people at scale wanting to get better. Everybody does their first Hyrox. Nobody’s like, how do I do my second Hyrox better than my first one.” Dilip Kumar leads investments at Rainmatter*, Zerodha’s health and fitness fund, which has deployed over Rs 250 crore across dozens of investments in health and fitness—including Hyrox India, Ironman, and Devil Circuit. He’s also a serious endurance athlete with a 2:55 marathon personal best and a finisher at the Boston Marathon. He has publicly called Hyrox as India’s “2008 IPL moment” for fitness. He came to this conversation with a declared interest and a clear conviction. “99% of the people are not intrinsically motivated. The invention of all these events kind of expanded that category — and that’s where we started investing.” Prasanna is building inside the wave and Dilip is investing and betting on it. Both of them are also participants. They competed in last month’s Hyrox event at Bengaluru. The episode tries to find out how long the wave is going to last—and what might happen after that. *Zerodha’s perennial fund Rainmatter Capital is an investor in The Ken. This episode was hosted and produced by Praveen Gopal Krishnan. Rajiv C N, our resident technical producer did the audio production.

    1 tim 9 min

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THE KEN PREMIUM

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Om

The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

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