How can you navigate uncertainty in a constantly changing market? Why is persistence the key to a sustainable creative career? Plus why distribution is so important, and the four ways to monetise your creative work. All this and more with Adam Leipzig. In the intro, my reflections on running an author-publisher business after a fantastic e-commerce workshop run by Blubolt, and why you will always pay for marketing with either your time or your money; AI-Assisted Artisan Author webinars; and last call for my Kickstarter Bones of the Deep – J.F. Penn. Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital.com to get started. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Adam Leipzig is a producer, former studio executive, and educator whose work spans film, media, and technology. He served as a senior executive at Walt Disney Studios and as President of National Geographic Films. His film credits include March of the Penguins and Dead Poets Society, with projects recognised by the Academy Awards, BAFTA, the Emmys, and Sundance. He is the author of several books on filmmaking and his latest book is Fearless Persistence: Creative Life, Creative Work, and the Ten Laws of Culturenomics. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes Why writing books still matters in a world saturated with visual media The Jeffrey Katzenberg “next” lesson and the power of fearless persistence How uncertainty and the “long middle” are essential parts of the creative process What film editing can teach writers about cutting, shaping, and refining their work The 10 Laws of Culturenomics, including why awareness is not desire and why distribution is everything How generative AI is changing filmmaking — and why creatives should be the architects, not the tools You can find Adam at AdamLeipzig.com. Transcript of Interview with Adam Leipzig Jo: Adam Leipzig is a producer, former studio executive, and educator whose work spans film, media, and technology. He served as a senior executive at Walt Disney Studios and as President of National Geographic Films. His film credits include March of the Penguins and Dead Poets Society, with projects recognised by the Academy Awards, BAFTA, the Emmys, and Sundance. He is the author of several books on filmmaking and his latest book is Fearless Persistence: Creative Life, Creative Work, and the Ten Laws of Culturenomics. Welcome to the show, Adam. Adam: Thank you so much for having me, Jo. Jo: I'm excited to talk to you today. You have written several books, but you have worked on many more films. So I wondered, why do you think books still have a part to play in reaching people? What do you love about writing books that is different to your filmmaking work? Adam: You can put so much information in a book, and the beautiful thing about a book is that you can pick it up wherever you want, whenever you want, and leave it off and go back to it. It's just waiting for you and it's there. It really allows me, and other authors like me, to share information in a different way, with more details and more stories and more specificity. I love the ability to just share that information and have it always available. You don't need a device, you don't need to have a subscription. You can just go to it whenever you want. You asked me what I love about writing. Like a lot of writers, I'm not sure I love writing, but I do love having written. The thing about a book is that it's a very solitary exercise. A film is a highly collaborative exercise. No movie gets made by one person. It's made by hundreds or sometimes thousands of people. But this book is just me and a laptop and notes and a lot of thought. It's a very introverted, almost monkish existence while you're doing that, and then it has to go out into the world—and that's when it really starts to interact with people. So there's this huge difference between being alone and being always in a collaborative environment, which is what happens when I'm making a movie. Jo: Most listeners will be independent authors in some way, and a lot of us do this because we're control freaks. We like being the only people. So how is that different? You mentioned collaboration in the film industry, but is it almost freeing to do a book without having that? I mean obviously you have editors and publishers and stuff, but— Is it freeing in some creative way? Adam: It is really nice, because there is not another point of view in the room and I can just say what I feel and know that that's there. At the same time, you're right—I have had some amazing editor help and I've had some great early readers that have given me feedback on it and helped me make it so much better than it was when I finished the first draft. I knew that going in. I always test and share what I'm doing to make sure that it lands in the way that I wanted it to land, and it can be helpful for people. Jo: Getting into the book, you have a chapter on “what you do matters.” I feel like this is super hard. This is not a political show, so we're not doing politics, but there are a lot of big things going on in the world. It can be very hard as writers to think, is writing my book actually going to make a difference? So how can you encourage people? Adam: That's the hardest thing, Jo, because there is a lot going on in the world right now. Everything that's going on in the world right now exists because it's following a certain narrative. I don't believe that narratives are come up with because people look at things that are happening and say, “Oh, well let's just write what happened.” I think that we do things from micro experiences that we have with ourselves, our relationships, our families, to the macro experiences of politics and global situations. I believe that happens because there is a narrative that is being followed. So what I say to all creative people is that it's our job to craft and express the narratives that matter—and different narratives—so those narratives can be followed. One of the points that I make in the book is that poets are not overtly really dangerous people. Poets are generally lovely people, a lot of them don't talk too much. They're great to have dinner with, and they just work with words—and often not a lot of words, right? Because beautiful poetry is often concise and simple and spare. Yet there are places where poets are in jail. Because the narratives of those concise, spare, gorgeous idealistic words matter so much that those voices need to be silenced, which means those narratives are dangerous sometimes. Those narratives present an alternate world, an alternate view of reality. I think it's really our job as creative people, as entrepreneurs, as people who are essentially creating narratives out of the soul of our lives and our experience—we want to express those to the world. It's really important for us to express those to the world, especially now, especially because so much is going on. Those narratives are going to become pathways that others can look at and maybe follow. I think that's really important. It's the reason why we do our work. Jo: I absolutely agree with you around writing the narratives that we want in the world. “Be the change you want to see in the world” and all that. I also want to call out the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of books now published, and you come from the film industry, and many more people really watch films or play games than read books. I've wondered about this myself. I've written a few screenplays and sometimes it feels that wouldn't it be better to try and put our words into a visual medium? A lot of authors listening will do micro video like TikTok and all of this. So this is back to the question of— Why books? How can we change these narratives when we feel like we're drowned out by all the media? Adam: I think it's great for authors to express themselves in other media. I have a pretty active Instagram channel, and I love doing that, but it's a really different thing. I'm talking to people in two-minute bursts with very specific things. It's not the same and not the same detail as a book. If we let our understanding of the ocean of content that is always coming to us stop us from doing anything, we wouldn't do anything. That's also true about movies. There are probably 10,000 movies made every year. There are a few hundred that are released. So if every day I thought, “Oh, the movie that I'm working on is maybe not going to be released because there's only a small percent of movies that are made that are released.” Or worse than that, “Of all the movies that are made, there's 500 different shows on Netflix and Apple and Amazon and there's so many choices.” If I thought that everything I was going to do is going to be drowned out, I wouldn't do anything. I just don't believe that's true. I think it's our job to do things. Yes, there's an ocean of content out there, but what we do really matters, and it doesn't have to matter at gigantic scale. We don't know the scale that our work is going to achieve over time. One of the early films that I worked on is a film called Dead Poets Society, and that script was passed on by every studio at least three times. It's probably a film that I couldn't get made now for all kinds of reasons, because it's not a sequel and it doesn't have superheroes or visual effects. When we made that movie, we didn
