In this episode, Kimberly speaks with Casia Sobolewski, somatic sex educator, sexological bodyworker, and co-founder of the Himeros Project. Casia opens with the grief of a recent realization: that patriarchal structures had shaped even her most tender and private erotic world, and that some of the desires moving through her may never have been hers to begin with. From there she traces twenty years of exploring dominance and submission, the pull of the daddy dom dynamic in her twenties, and the question she is only asking now about why she had to imagine herself young to feel turned on. They talk about the "taking quadrant" of the wheel of consent and why so many exhausted women reach for passivity when what their systems actually want is mobilization. She describes the men's retreats she runs with her husband Cosmo Meens: what men bring to a room where their erotic lives are finally speakable, why starting with sexuality is both the hardest and the most important entry point in men's work, and what happens in a man's system when a woman says no. She unpacks matriarchy as mothers at the beginning rather than rule by women, drawing on Heide Göttner-Abendroth and the Mosuo, and names how the nuclear family loads one man with labor that once belonged to grandmothers, aunties, uncles and brothers. The conversation moves through early motherhood and the erotic tether Casia kept through it, the axial age and the cost of men teaching women how to care, aging and the erasure of the grandmother, and closes on the work she and Cosmo are renaming the art and responsibility of touching women. Bio Casia Sobolewski is a somatic sex educator, sexological bodyworker, and erotic practitioner who has been teaching sexuality since 2009. She is a certified Somatic Sex Educator and Sexological Bodyworker, a certified Holistic Sex Educator, and a trained intern surrogate partner with the International Professional Surrogates Association. She completed Dr. Betty Martin's Like A Pro Wheel of Consent training and has served on the boards of the Association of Certified Sexological Bodyworkers and the Somatic Sex Educators Association. In Toronto she founded Spit.Exposed, a queer and feminist porn project she ran from 2014 to 2019. From 2018 to 2025 she was a practitioner and teacher with Back to the Body: Sensual Retreats for Women. She is co-founder and ongoing practitioner of the Himeros Project, immersive retreats for men, which she leads alongside her husband Cosmo Meens, and together they teach The Art and Responsibility of Touching Women. She works in immersion experiences only, supporting people who are out of touch with their pleasure, who have experienced sexual trauma, or who want a space to meet the erotic aspect of themselves with integrity. She identifies as queer, non-disabled, introverted, non-monogamous, kink positive, married, cis, femme, a mother to one, a stepmother to three, and a devoted sister, daughter, friend and partner. She lives in British Columbia and her personal site is Honey and Water. What Casia Shares The grief opening three or four months ago when she realized patriarchal structures had reached into her most private erotic world Twenty years of exploring dominance and submission, and the question she is only now asking about why she had to imagine herself young to feel turned on Why so many women arrive wanting to be dominated, and why exhaustion and choice fatigue are part of the picture The taking quadrant of the wheel of consent, and the night she first took, tired, at 11pm What her men's retreats actually look like, including the numbers: nine to twelve men, three male staff, four female practitioners, ages twenty-eight to seventy-five Why she and Cosmo added mutual touch to the container, and how negotiation of desire is taught in micro steps What happens in a man's system when she says no, and why receiving a no is the skill that transfers to the rest of his life Matriarchy as mothers at the beginning, drawn from Heide Göttner-Abendroth, and the Mosuo clan structure where there are no words for husband or father How the nuclear family hands one stepfather the labor of grandmothers, aunties, uncles and brothers, and why he feels like he is failing Early motherhood, the erotic structures that stopped computing, the nerve issues, and pleasure as the tether back to herself The axial age, care labor, and what it costs when the people already doing the caring are taught by men to care more Erotic self sourcing, and asking her charismatic partner to decenter himself from women's lives Circumcision of infant boys as a first initiation, and men in their seventies finally being held Aging, the elephant metaphor, and the erasure of the grandmother The renaming of their offering to the art and responsibility of touching women, and why the responsibility matters What You'll Hear What rematriation means when it is applied to a marriage, a household, a business and a body all at once Whether a desire can be genuinely yours if it was placed there, and whether that even matters The difference between rest and mobilization for an exhausted nervous system, and why more passivity is often the wrong prescription Kim on the bodyworker who discovered she needed to take, not receive, after a full day of giving Why starting with sexuality is the hardest and most important entry point in men's work What men sound like singing together at the end of a retreat, without drugs or alcohol Whether men and women have the same obstacles to pleasure, and where patriarchy shows up on both sides of the same coin Matriarchy versus matrifocal, and why Casia uses the word that starts an argument The community that holds her and Cosmo accountable, and what personal power looks like when it is checked Renegotiating the parenting load as a seven year old claims her independence Kim on Perdita Finn, Stephen Jenkinson, lineage, and why elderhood makes gender matter less A long, honest passage from Kim on double binds, young men, her daughter's friends in Scotland, and raising a son you would not want to date The coming of age ceremony for a thirteen year old girl, and what is missing for boys Affiliate groups versus mixed groups, and whether single gender work is a stepping stone or a destination Mothers as the creators of culture, and the mother son bond in matriarchal anthropology Kim's friend in Palau, and what it feels like to leave a living matriarchy and land in an airport The hysteria clinic, and why the modern orgasm imperative is the same move in a different costume Why men mostly cannot see the work, and what "you look good for your age" actually costs Porn as training in extraction, and what men need instead Resources Casia Sobolewski Personal website, Honey and Water https://www.honeyandwater.ca/ The Himeros Project https://www.himerosproject.com/ The Art of Touching Women https://www.himerosproject.com/the-art-of-touching-women Instagram https://www.instagram.com/casia.sobolewski/ Linktree https://linktr.ee/casia.xx Kimberly Ann Johnson Pre-Order Erotic Seasons: Tuning into the Rhythms of Women's Sexuality and Spirituality (Sounds True, 2026): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1649633742 Support This episode includes discussion of sexual assault and sexual trauma. RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline (US): 1-800-656-4673, rainn.org. Confirm current before publication.
