On this week’s episode of the Arizona Equals Conversation, we talk with Canella Caro, a student at ASU who plan to be a history teacher, about hope in uncertain times, the process of learning empathy, and the culture of right-wing echo chambers online. The Arizona Equals Conversation is an interview podcast collecting the stories of LGBTQ+ people living in Arizona. To listen to past episodes of the podcast, or to sign up to be a guest on a future episode of the show, visit equalityarizona.org/stories. Full Episode Transcript Jeanne Woodbury From Equality Arizona, you're listening to the Arizona Equals Conversation, a podcast about queer people and queer communities in Arizona. I'm Jeanne Woodbury. I'm the interim executive director at Equality Arizona, and each week on the show, I talk with a queer person about their story. Today's interview with my guest, Canella Caro, is something really special. Early on when I was planning this series, I kind of made a promise to myself not to ask the really typical coming out questions like, what changed in your relationship to your family? What changed in your relationship to your friends? Things like that, because it falls right into the narrative that I think people project onto queer people. That it's all about this one moment. That it's all about showing the world who you've always known yourself to be and damn the consequences. And it's not to say that that isn't actually a very common part of people's experiences, but there's so much more going on. And that idea of projection is something we actually ended up talking about in a very different way in relation to Canella's experience as an immigrant and the story people expect from them because of that. But even beyond that, this isn't a story that fits an easy narrative. This is a story about radically reevaluating your relationship to queer people and queer community as part of a longer process of radically reevaluating your relationship to yourself. And it was special for me as an interviewer to hear that story because it's something that I share and it's not something I've found that I have in common with a lot of people. It's also really fascinating because we talk a lot about right-wing echo chambers and the effect that alt-right influencers like Ben Shapiro can have on very, very young people using the internet. There's a lot of complexity here, and I'm so appreciative of Canella for sharing all of that so openly on the podcast. I think that you'll all really enjoy this episode, and I want to get right into it. So let's roll the tape. [BEEP] [TYPING] [CLICK] [MUSIC PLAYING] Canella Caro Hello, my name is Canella. I go by she/they pronouns. Yeah. Jeanne Woodbury Cool. Thanks for being here. While I was struggling to get this audio set up to work, You mentioned you've worked as an audio engineer before, which made me feel kind of terrible. Canella Caro No, don't worry, I suck. (both laughing) Jeanne Woodbury — But — Canella Caro There's a reason I don't do sound anymore. Jeanne Woodbury Where were you doing that work? Canella Caro Oh, it was an internship for this like itty bitty venue down in like downtown Tucson. Jeanne Woodbury Oh, cool. Canella Caro Yeah, the venue used to be like this abandoned hotel that this guy turned into like a bunch of shops. They had a bunch of little artisan shops and played a bunch of live music, and I helped out the main sound guy with that. Jeanne Woodbury That's really cool. Canella Caro Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Jeanne Woodbury How long did you work there? Canella Caro I started working there in February last year and then stopped in July of the same year. Jeanne Woodbury Oh, okay. Yeah. Canella Caro Yeah. Jeanne Woodbury And was that to move up here to Tempe? Canella Caro Yeah, and also I was not being paid. Canella Caro (both laughing) And once I needed the internship for a project I was doing for my high school. Jeanne Woodbury I see, okay. Canella Caro And once that project period ended, there wasn't really much need to keep doing it if I wasn't getting any sort of reward. Jeanne Woodbury That makes sense, yeah. If you can get the credit, then that counts, but otherwise you don't wanna do an unpaid job. Canella Caro Yeah, it goes on my resume though, so. Jeanne Woodbury That's good, yeah. So did you grow up in Tucson then? Canella Caro I was born in Chile. I lived there for like the first three and a half years of my life. Jeanne Woodbury Oh, okay. Canella Caro And then I moved to Arizona. So I've been in Arizona all my life basically, but not necessarily in Tucson. I used to live in, over in Graham County. It's like bordering New Mexico. There's this like itty bitty town, very white town that I lived there for like the first, what, until I was about like nine, and then I moved to Tucson. Jeanne Woodbury And that, is this like a 1,000 person town kind of thing, or? Canella Caro It's, yeah… there were a lot of Mormons. Jeanne Woodbury Interesting. Canella Caro And I was like the only person of color within like a 500 mile radius. (laughs) Jeanne Woodbury Oh wow. Canella Caro For a bit. Like, it was me and this other girl who were like the only non-white people around. Jeanne Woodbury Oh wow. Canella Caro So yeah, it was a pretty small town, pretty tight knit, yeah. Jeanne Woodbury Yeah, how long were you there? Canella Caro Until I was about nine, so for like six-ish years. Jeanne Woodbury Oh, so a lot of formative development. Canella Caro Yeah, yeah. So I spent a lot of my childhood there, but a lot of the important parts were here in Tucson. Jeanne Woodbury Yeah, that makes sense. So do you have memories from Chile or really… Canella Caro Kind of, because I mean, I did go visit every once in a while to see family 'cause all of my extended family's there. I only have my parents and my siblings in the United States. So yeah, I do, I remember little things. Like I remember the fruit magnets on the fridge, the yellow walls, dancing with my dad. Um, that kind of thing. You do always get the occasional random person comes up to you and goes, Hey, I knew you when you were a baby! That kind of thing, that kind of experience Jeanne Woodbury But I don't know you, because I was a baby. Canella Caro Yeah, I don't know. Yeah infant amnesia kinda hit. Jeanne Woodbury Yeah I was even younger than that when my family moved to Arizona, but all my siblings are older than me. So they have more memories from — Pennsylvania is where we moved from — so they have more memories from there than I do. And it's interesting because there's like that family history in a place that I have no memory of, even though I'm technically from there. Canella Caro Yeah. Jeanne Woodbury Are your siblings older than you or younger than you? Canella Caro Oh, I'm the oldest. Yeah. Jeanne Woodbury Oh, okay. Canella Caro Both of my siblings were born here too. So, yeah, I'm the first one to leave the nest. Jeanne Woodbury Yeah. Canella Caro Yeah. Jeanne Woodbury That's an interesting position to be in, I think. Do you have like pressure as like an older sibling role model? Canella Caro Kind of yeah, I mean not like explicitly. Nobody's like — my parents never like compared me, compared my younger siblings to me or anything because I was kind of the black sheep of the family Jeanne Woodbury Oh really? Canella Caro For now. But there is that kind of obligation to be a good example, which I haven't really been but… (laughs) but yeah. Jeanne Woodbury I feel like also for a lot of people who come to the United States as a family, there's extra pressure on the kids to like really take advantage of like going to university here. Canella Caro Yeah. Both of my parents, they both went to university. In fact, I think, like, my mom was like one of the first in her family for generations to go to university Jeanne Woodbury Oh, that's really cool. Canella Caro Because we came from like the south of Chile and it's more like countryside, rural kind of area. So yeah, they're very like academic based. Jeanne Woodbury Is that why they moved here? Canella Caro My dad — we moved here because my father was offered a job here. Jeanne Woodbury Oh, okay. Canella Caro Yeah, the company he works for has like a branch, and… is an American company and has a branch in Chile. So he was offered, and he moved. Jeanne Woodbury Oh, that's cool. Canella Caro Yeah, yeah. No like… no American dream story. Jeanne Woodbury Yeah, just, it's a job and now I'm here. Canella Caro Yeah, he just kind of came here. Jeanne Woodbury That makes sense. Canella Caro Mm-hmm Jeanne Woodbury In Arizona? Canella Caro Yeah, it was in Arizona. Jeanne Woodbury Oh nice, okay, that's cool Canella Caro Yeah, because copper mining is pretty popular here and in Chile, so. Jeanne Woodbury Oh that's right. Yeah, that's a that's a link that makes a lot of sense. Canella Caro Yeah, yeah, industry. Jeanne Woodbury Yeah, I think it's interesting because — my grandma's from Cuba and she moved here not for the reason most people from Cuba have moved here over the past 70 years; she moved here before the revolution to go to college Canella Caro Oh, nice. Jeanne Woodbury Or around that same time. So she wasn't fleeing the revolution or anything like that. She just moved here and she went to college and she stayed here and got a job at Bell Labs. And it's something where, those stories are always interesting because people project a certain image or story onto your experience and then it's like, well it was exciting and interesting because she was a woman in the 50s getting a graduate degree. But at the same time, it's not the story people think it is. Canella Caro Yeah, definitely. I, yeah, people often — when you say like, when I say that I'm an immigrant people often assume that I have an accent or you know, you get the little microaggression of "oh your English is so good." Jeanne Woodbury Do you get that a lot? Canella Caro Wh