In this episode Malcolm and Simone discuss two massive bestsellers that took the Spanish-speaking world by storm: Marry and Be Submissive (for women) and its companion Lay Down Your Life for Her (for men). Written by Catholic author Costanza Miriano, the books became instant #1 hits — then faced years of protests, public book burnings, political demands for withdrawal, and accusations of promoting “violence against women.” We examine the actual content (far milder than the outrage suggests), the deliberate mistranslation of “mortification,” the biblical framework from Ephesians 5, and why the message resonates with so many women. We also break down where we agree with the books, where we culturally diverge, and what the hysterical reaction reveals about the urban monoculture’s elevation of personal hedonic desire as the highest good. Topics include complementary (not identical) roles, the redefinition of submission as strong foundation rather than doormat, the crisis of male passivity, why pure democracy in marriage backfires, love as decision rather than feeling, and the healthiest framing of family as a shared “Firm” or clan with collective goals that supersede individual preference. Episode Transcript [00:00:00] Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be talking about a couple books that became bestsellers in the Spanish-speaking world, particularly in Spain, and caused a huge controversy. So- [00:00:13] Simone Collins: Like just now? Like in 2026? [00:00:15] Malcolm Collins: Actually, they were released in 2011 and they have increased almost immediately they became the top seller on Amazon. [00:00:22] And then they they’ve been increasingly trying to ban them for a really long time. They’ve been try- doing these big things where they walk around town and rip them apart. [00:00:30] And you’ll understand why when you hear their name. [00:00:32] Simone Collins: Walk around town and rip them [00:00:34] Malcolm Collins: apart ... the, the name of the first book, which is for women and is popular amongst women, it’s not like unpopular amongst men, is called Marry and Be Submissive. [00:00:42] And women apparently really like this book. And then the second book, which is for men, and surprisingly people haven’t been protesting, is Lay Down Your Life for Her. And the- It’s so good ... they’re, they’re written as a, as a comp- I also love it too, like w- they’re like, oh, what’s asked of women in the women’s book, first of all, though you’re like, “Oh, it’s abusive.” [00:01:03] I, I, I looked into it as much as I could. Nowhere in the book is abuse mentioned anywhere, but they act as if the book is promoting physical abuse simply because it asks women to be s- to submit to their husbands as the Bible says. This is a very Catholic book written by Catholics. And I’m, what I wanna take this episode to do is to, one, go over the key points of the book to- Hmm [00:01:25] sort of, better understand the message it’s trying to convey, why this is resonating with so many women in these countries. Okay. And then go over well, and while we’re doing it, go over where I disagree. And I’d actually say that most of the areas I d- or no, literally all of the areas in which I disagree with the book, it is a mere cultural disagreement about the role of women in a family. [00:01:48] Oh. Which in Catholic culture is simply more submissive than it is in the, the various cultural traditions of the United States. Okay. So, th- that, that’s what we’ll go into. [00:01:59] A side note, by the way, the woman who wrote this is both very pro-natalist, she has a lot of kids, and she appears to be a really sweet person [00:02:08] Speaker: my four children, I’m at lesson number two. So the cat is under the table, so I’m sorry. And I, I, I don’t know the coloring the word has in English, but I, I don’t use it in a negative way. It’s a word taken from the letter of St. Paul to the Ephesians, and it doesn’t mean in any, any way being, uh, li- like a doormat for, for the husband. [00:02:37] I use it in a, the etymological sense of being beneath, , or underneath. , And so providing the support , like , a column supports a roof [00:02:49] [00:02:49] Malcolm Collins: But let’s go over some of the lines that they’ve been freaking out about. [00:02:52] Simone Collins: Okay. [00:02:52] Malcolm Collins: Lines like, “Like humiliation because it is for the greater good.” [00:02:58] And then, “To listen to your husband’s words as if God is speaking.” Now- What we’re gonna go into here is actually the first one that everyone’s been freaking out about, which is like humiliation, is an intentional mistranslation that people have been using to freak out about the book. Oh. And they’ve been quoting that line, even in Spanish it could look like the word humiliation, but the actual word is, and you’re familiar with the word probably, Simone, mortification is the word that’s used here. [00:03:25] Oh, [00:03:26] Simone Collins: come on. [00:03:28] Malcolm Collins: And so it goes, “We like mortification because it for, it is for achieving a greater good, and that greater good is to welcome your husband, and therefore to give birth to yourself again, regenerate yourself.” That is not a particularly offensive line that- How are [00:03:44] Simone Collins: they mistranslating that? [00:03:45] Isn’t it mortificación? Like, how do you like... They’re semi-cognates. You can’t... Wait, is that... How can this be? Are they just being that crazy in, in trying to freak us- Sorry, for [00:03:58] Malcolm Collins: people who don’t know, Simone speaks fluent Spanish. [00:04:00] That’s why she’s freaking out about this I’m [00:04:01] Simone Collins: just checking, but I, I don’t know. [00:04:02] I don’t use that. I use other language when I speak. So mortification, Spanish. Yeah, mortificación. Okay, so there’s no way you can misinterpret that. Like... [00:04:15] Malcolm Collins: So even you, if, if you heard that as a, as a Spanish speaker- Welcome. [00:04:17] Simone Collins: If you saw the word mortificación, what do you think it means? I mean... [00:04:24] Malcolm Collins: Not humilia- I mean, I, I, I would think of DSM stuff is- Yeah, you [00:04:27] Simone Collins: would think it means mortification because it’s a semi-cognate. [00:04:30] Malcolm Collins: It’s, oh, because it’s a semi-cognate to the word in English mortification. Yeah. Well, most people don’t know the word mortification in English I mean, I always think of it as sort of a Catholic thing. But in English language- That’s a mortified word. People use it all the time. That’s, this is a normal word [00:04:41] So in, in Catholic spiritual language or, or Spanish more broadly mortification is a traditional term. It does not mean enjoying physical or sexual humiliation, abuse, or degradation. No. It refers to the deliberate practice of denying one’s own will- Yes ... pride, ego or immediate comfort for higher spiritual purpose following Christ, growing in virtue, and loving others more selflessly. [00:05:03] Classic examples include accepting small daily inconveniences, biting one’s tongue, and accepting correction without defensiveness, or putting someone else’s preferences first. Which is kind of a great advice for a woman getting into a marriage, right? [00:05:18] Simone Collins: Yeah. [00:05:18] Malcolm Collins: Like, but what I find, what I find so f- fascinating about this backlash and this absolute panic, some of which has come from the Catholic Church as well. [00:05:27] We’ll have a few bishops here, quotes from them- Okay ... about how this doesn’t reflect the church’s teachings to women at all. And like- Mm-hmm ... no, it, it kind of does, first of all. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But I mean, at least the traditional church’s teachings. Maybe not whatever you’re teaching. Like, whatever the church is doing today. [00:05:43] But you know, traditionally. The book really doesn’t, if you go into it, it’s... This is not like 50 Shade of Grey, which did not get these protests or anything like that. It’s, it’s literally just telling both husbands and wives that you need to dedicate your life to your partner and to being a good partner to your partner. [00:06:03] Actually, only to wives. To wives it says be submission. To men it says lay down your entire life for your wife, right? Both of which I think are, are fairly good pieces of advice. But the, what’s fascinating is that leftists, and even some people on the right have been speaking against this, ‘cause this has gone o- over the party line in, despite being a bestseller. [00:06:21] Really? Are, are saying that this book represents violence and abuse to women. What is interesting is what they are showing there is the idea of a woman being or, or submitting to her husband is the idea that they found violence in, in the [00:06:40] Simone Collins: book. Yeah, well, that, that a woman would sublimate herself, I think more broadly, that a woman would sublimate herself to anyone except her own personal hedonic desires. [00:06:52] So I mean also a woman, a woman subjugating herself, or sorry sublimating herself to God, for example. That would also be bad. Sublimating yourself to children, sublimating yourself to God. S- Anything aside from, like, your own status, identity, and comfort is- Actually- ... considered bad ... [00:07:13] Malcolm Collins: it’s, it’s funny that you mention that, because I think you just hit on something that’s very spiritually true about the urban monoculture. [00:07:21] But I had never isolated it so, loud. Hmm. Which is to say, you know, if you’re a Christian, right, you submit to God, right? Like, if you’re a, you know, Muslim, you submit to Allah. If you’re a, right, w- whatever thing you are, it’s, it generally involves som
