Thank you Ali Hart • عَلي هارت, "Sushi"(Jen) of MIND HAVEN, Rarelightmare, PJ Schuster, Stephanie Munoz, and many others for tuning into my live video with Mo Goldman! Join me for my next live video in the app. Immigration attorney Mo Goldman drops by for an update on DACA. Transcript: Jenn: Well, welcome, everybody. This is…Hi, Anna Maria. This is Borderland Talk, and we are with Mo Goldman. He is an immigration attorney from Tucson, Arizona. He is my buddy. (laughs) We hang out together when I’m in Tucson, when he’s in San Diego. Mo also ran for Congress, but the Democrats didn’t choose him because they’re losers.(laughs) Yeah. Yeah, they made a bad choice, but, you know, we’ll support their candidate. Mo: We all make bad choices in life. Jenn: Yeah, we all make bad choices, but you would have been a great congressman, Mo. Mo: I mean, I made the choice of being an immigration attorney. (laughs) Jenn: There you go. Mo: In retrospect, that was an insane life decision. (laughs) Jenn: Well, I mean, the other thing about Mo that’s important to know is that he’s the grandson of Holocaust survivors. And he has written a book. Please give the name of the book, Mo. Mo: It’s “The Last Survivor, Lessons from the Past and the Dying Dream of Freedom.” Jenn: And in that… I always make him say it because it’s such a long title. And sometimes he forgets it as well. But it documents what his grandmother and grandfather went through. And then I also believe, too, when your grandfather passed away, she remarried, correct? Mo: Yes. Jenn: And that man was a survivor as well. Mo: He was also a survivor, yeah. Jenn: Yeah. Mo: We had a litany of survivors in my family. Jenn: Yeah, but it’s especially interesting because then your mother became an immigration attorney, you and your sister are immigration attorneys. And then to be going through this, and I think what the book does is, through Mo’s eyes as an immigration attorney and knowing his history, his Jewish history, the Holocaust history that directly affected his family. I mean, he wouldn’t have been here if his grandparents hadn’t survived. And then seeing what we’re going through today, I recommend picking that up. And you can order that online. But today, Mo, I wanted to talk to you. I wanted to invite you on and talk about what’s going on over there in Tucson. You have several, a handful, maybe less than a handful of clients who are DACA clients. And that’s, what is that, Deferred Action? Mo: for Childhood Arrivals. Jenn: For Childhood Arrivals. And so DACA is for children who were brought here, very young, through no choice of their own. And it was something that the Obama administration did. It’s kind of a temporary immigration status, I would say, right? It doesn’t give them full protection as we’re finding out now. And what we’ve seen because ICE is lazy and they’re not really going after the worst of the worst and they’re going after children and they’re going after people who are here legally. And DACA is one of those groups. Last week, I believe it was last week, the Tucson Sentinel, or within the last two weeks, came out with a report about you guys had a press conference, and three of your clients that you’re going to talk about, Carla Toledo, Roberto Navarro Bocanegra and Myndy Valencia Sanchez. And at that press conference, which I was very impressed by, you had Tucson Mayor Regina Romero. So it’s good to know that your mayor supports you all. City Council Member Lane Santa Cruz and then also Congressional Representative Adelita Grijalva. And what she stated I thought was pretty interesting, she said that she feels these attacks - because obviously ICE is claiming that they’re going after the worst of the worst, but they’re not - they’re going after people who are trying to do it the legal way and using you and paying you to file immigration documents with USCIS, which is the legal way to do it - she stated that she feels that ICE is trying to sow anxiety among immigrants so that they do not apply or they just give up and self-deport and leave. I agree with her. I think that’s correct. And the three clients that you’re going to talk about today kind of demonstrate that. Mo: Exactly. Jenn: Before we went live, we were talking because I said in the article when I was congratulating you about Karla Toledo that you won and you said, well, not really. (laughs) I didn’t catch that in the article or it wasn’t in the article. So you did manage to get her DACA renewed. So that’s good. So she has her legal documents. But now please tell us what is going on with Ms. Karla. Mo: So Karla Toledo, just to give a little bit of background, she has DACA. She came to the United States when she was one year old. She’s now 31 years of age. So she’s been in the United States for 30 years. She graduated high school. She went to post-secondary and she’s been just a great, great community member. ICE showed up at her house on May 18th of this year. They didn’t have a judicial warrant. They, it appears showed up thinking they were going after somebody else who did not live in that home. She was living there with her husband. And then when she resisted and said, I want to see a judicial warrant. They wouldn’t leave and eventually coerced her out and she ended up getting arrested and detained by the ICE agents. There were five of them. Thankfully, there was surveillance camera footage that caught a lot of what occurred. Through some public pressure and media attention, we were able to get her released from Eloy Detention Center a few days later. And then ICE put her case in front of the immigration court. They charged her as being deportable despite the fact that she has DACA protection. They also lied in that - I know this is a big shock to everyone. Their spokesperson lied about her, accusing her of being a criminal, accusing her of entering the country illegally, even though the last time she entered with a permit called advance parole. Just to try and, of course, smear her name in the public eye and to continue to spread the propaganda that all these immigrants are horrible, vile criminals. So this is where it gets really weird. In early June, I think it was around June 3rd, ICE agreed to dismiss her deportation case. And then a day later, after the judge ordered dismissal, they reinstated, they recharged her with a new deportation proceeding with her husband. And their reasoning behind it was, we’d rather you guys both be deported as a couple, as a family unit. Jenn: Well, how kind of you. (laughs) Mo: Yeah, very generous. Jenn: B******t. (laughs) Mo: And so, thankfully, Karla is... she epitomizes courage. She has been very outspoken in spite of the fact that she’s in this perilous position. She’s done media appearances. She goes out... she supports a community. She has become a rock and a pillar to a lot of the other people who are facing removal who have very similar backgrounds. So I am so grateful in a weird way that I got to meet her through this situation. Jenn: Yeah. Mo: You know, the weird kind of juxtaposition that you and I were talking about is that while her deportation case, which is still ongoing in the immigration court, is going on, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service, USCIS, approved her DACA extension for another two years. Jenn: Well, what’s the basis of the deportation? Don’t they have to have a, this is the cause for us to bring a charge? Mo: Yeah. The Department of Homeland Security does not – so when Obama introduced DACA, the idea behind DACA was that the government would use their prosecutorial discretion in a much broader way than just on case – I mean, every case is evaluated separately, but it gave a large swath of individuals if they met certain requirements including being here since June 15, 2007, had to be present in the U.S. on the date that the program was announced, which was June 15, 2012, they have to undergo a vetting process. They put it all out there. Jenn: They jump through a lot of hurdles to even get that DACA, right? Mo: Yeah, and they’re exposing their undocumented status. So there was always going to be a risk that this could end up backfiring, you know, and people knew that. But the allure of it is most of these folks, if not all of them, well, most of them, were never able to have a legal work authorization card or a social security number or any sort of semblance of a life so that they could move forward with with something. You know, so they’re not just sitting on their asses all the time. You know, not being able to function in our society. And it’s better for our economy, it’s better for our streets, just having people out there who are licensed drivers, who are insured. You know, there are economic and societal benefits to it. So the problem with DACA, however, is that it is not a permanent legal status. And so that’s where we get this like real bizarre scenario arise where you have people who have DACA protection, which is supposed to protect them from being deported. And now ICE is saying, well, we can still deport them. It makes no sense. Jenn: Do you think it eventually, I mean, because - so knowing the culture of the agencies and stuff, it feels like to me, and I see this with the Biden CBP One app that was used to bring in people legally during his administration. Do you feel it’s that same kind of thing where they’re like, well, we just don’t recognize it. We don’t like it. Mo: Yeah, it’s exactly what it is. Jenn: In our mind, it’s not legal. Mo: Yeah, but it’s just a bizarre scenario when you’re getting approved on DACA and then on the flip side, they’re trying to deport these people. It’s like mixed messages. Jenn: Yeah. Mo: And I’m not saying... I’d rather have mixed messages than them saying, no, you’re not going to get DACA. But I was shocked when