CRAFTED. | The Tech Podcast for Founders, Makers, and Innovators Modern Product Minds

Kelsey Hightower is a legend. He regularly gives live software demos in front of tens of thousands of people, improvising them like it’s jazz. He’s a master storyteller and a master craftsman. He helped evangelize and establish Kubernetes and recently retired (at 42!) from Google where he was a distinguished engineer. 

Kelsey loves to level people up and in this conversation we discuss the power of innovation that happens after going from Zero to One. Or, as Kelsey puts it, “From Hello, World to Hello, Revenue” — and why those boring innovations show true grit and craftsmanship. 

We also discuss the art of the demo, how Kelsey engages crowds with his humanity, and how you can, too. 

And Kelsey shares what he’s learned in his first year of retirement. He’s actually quite busy and has to remind folks that “I’m retired; not tired.” He’s fixing up his house, making time for others, and “learning how to live.” We get into what that means… 

This episode is very special. Enjoy!

Key Moments:

[03:06] “I’m retired; not tired.” – What Kelsey’s been up to in his first year off the job — and why he refuses to mount his TV over the fireplace
[04:51] “How do the makers mature?” — Kelsey’s thoughts on how developers can advance their careers by getting good at innovating after, sometimes long after, going from zero to one
[08:53] Keeping an open mindset: how developers integrate new technologies, e.g. Docker 
[17:13] “Creating good software is very emotional”
[20:40] The art of the live demo
[25:39] Humans are natural storytellers – embrace it! 
[27:31] Vulnerability and how Kelsey learned to be so confident on stage
[30:38] The time Kelsey nearly bombed on stage, but turned it around into an “extra dope” moment on stage at a Google keynote
[36:15] “A lot of people don’t realize how much power they have until way later in life” – why even the really little things (like saying hello to a stranger) matter
[39:28] Representation matters: being a black man in tech
[42:15] The power of open source
[45:04] “What is my actual impact on society?” — why Kelsey retired: 
[47:46] Kelsey’s hopes for the future — and why we should be more excited about human intelligence, not just artificial intelligence

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CRAFTED. is brought to you in partnership with Docker, which helps developers build, share, run and verify applications anywhere – without environment confirmation or management. More than 20 million developers worldwide use Docker's suite of development tools, services and automations to accelerate the delivery of secure applications. 
CRAFTED. is produced by Modern Product Minds, where CRAFTED. host Dan Blumberg and team can help you take a new product from zero to one... and beyond. We specialize in early stage product discovery, growth, and experimentation. Learn more at modernproductminds.com 
Subscribe to CRAFTED., follow the show, and sign up for the newsletter 👉 crafted.fm

Colin Nederkoorn is the founder and CEO of Customer.io, a top customer engagement platform that enables companies to send the right message to the right user at the right time on the right channel. The platform is used by Notion and lots of other top SaaS companies to personalize user onboarding and more. 
When Customer.io was founded in 2011, there were analytics platforms and there were things you could do with that data, but as the mobile era was taking off – and user onboarding became even more critical – Colin recognized a need for companies to immediately send users messages based on the actions there users had just taken – or (and this was a lot harder to build) the action they had not taken. 
On this episode, we learn from Colin how he built and scaled Customer.io from slideware he pitched to early customers into a company that today boasts top clients and a lofty valuation. 
Plus, tips on how you can improve your own onboarding. 
***
Key Moments:
[2:17] How Colin got into product management and early experiences
[5:00] Becoming head of product at DevPost (fka ChallengePost)
[7:00] “We were so naive that we just did, we did it.” – Founding Customer.io
[10:12] Onboarding and more ways companies use customer.io
[14:43] Why you shouldn’t optimize your onboarding too early
[17:17] Challenges at customer.io today and their emerging multi-product strategy
[19:12] AI vs. rules engines; and how Customer.io is using AI now and experimenting
[22:22] Why triggering a notification when a user has not done something is so much harder than if they have
[23:55] Infrastructure and constant scaling – one of customer.io’s biggest challenges

***
CRAFTED. is brought to you in partnership with Docker, which helps developers build, share, run and verify applications anywhere – without environment confirmation or management. More than 20 million developers worldwide use Docker's suite of development tools, services and automations to accelerate the delivery of secure applications. 
CRAFTED. is produced by Modern Product Minds, where CRAFTED. host Dan Blumberg and team can help you take a new product from zero to one... and beyond. We specialize in early stage product discovery, growth, and experimentation. Learn more at modernproductminds.com 
Subscribe to CRAFTED., follow the show, and sign up for the newsletter 👉 crafted.fm

DevPost powers most of the world’s hackathons. And, according to founder and CEO Brandon Kessler, lately there is one overarching directive: “Executives from the top down are saying: `We need to do hackathons to uncover the value of ai.`” Nearly every one of the 1,200 hackathons DevPost powered last year was AI-centric. 
On this episode of CRAFTED., we explore why hackathons are still such a powerful tool, both as public competitions and as internal initiatives. And we hear the founding story of DevPost and why they pivoted from hosting public competitions of all kinds (cooking challenges with Michelle Obama! NYC Big Apps!) to only focus on developers. Plus, how and why DevPost launched a new product that is custom-built for internal company hackathons. 
***
Key Moments:
[1:53] DevPost’s mission and why hackathons are still so valuable, especially at this moment with AI
[6:20] What makes a hackathon successful?
[8:40] Brandon’s story: he founded and ran a music label for years before seeing the opportunity with challenges
[11:40] Launching ChallengePost, scaling up and powering all federal competitions under President Obama — and why they eventually changed the name and company focus to DevPost
[15:46] Launching DevPost for teams: a tool for companies to run internal hackathons
[19:00] Brandon’s favorite competitions over the years
[22:00] How hackathons have mirrored the top tech trends: from cloud to XR to blockchain to AI
[25:18] What’s something that sounds like science fiction now, but that Brandon thinks will be commonplace soon?
***
CRAFTED. is brought to you in partnership with Docker, which helps developers build, share, run and verify applications anywhere – without environment confirmation or management. More than 20 million developers worldwide use Docker's suite of development tools, services and automations to accelerate the delivery of secure applications. 
CRAFTED. is produced by Modern Product Minds, where CRAFTED. host Dan Blumberg and team can help you take a new product from zero to one... and beyond. We specialize in early stage product discovery, growth, and experimentation. Learn more at modernproductminds.com 
Subscribe to CRAFTED., follow the show, and sign up for the newsletter 👉 crafted.fm

Wonder aims to be a “super app for mealtime”, with people turning to it for everything from delivery to groceries to meal kits and more... It’s a very ambitious food-tech startup founded by Marc Lore, the legendary founder who previously built, scaled, and sold Diapers.com and Jet.com (to Amazon and Walmart, respectively). 
Wonder is rapidly opening stores across the East Coast that, as they put it, feature 30 restaurants in one location. The theory is that that one location can be 30x as profitable as a similarly-sized operation. 
Serving and delivering that many types of food, quickly, is an incredible operational challenge. And on this episode of CRAFTED., Wonder VP of Product Rich Przekop shares how his team has built custom software and data products to forecast demand, prevent waste, and make sure the food you want is ready for you. 
Plus, how Wonder is building for today, but also keeping an eye towards tomorrow… The software Rich and team are building may someday be offered externally to power all manner of food/logistics businesses. 
***
Key Moments:
[2:27] The big vision for Wonder: “a super app for mealtime”
[3:28] What it’s like working with legendary founder Marc Lore
[5:08] How Rich got so into data (and how GenAI is now passing Wonder’s SQL test)
[7:32] The ideal customer experience at Wonder
[10:54] Why Wonder had to build custom software
[13:02] How and why Wonder built a simulator to help it forecast demand, reduce food waste and prevent stockouts
[20:04] How Wonder may someday whitelabel its logistics software and sell it to other companies
[23:23] The culture at Wonder and why “Marc is the cheerleader” and Rich plays the role of “Yes, but also…” 
[26:00] The power of clear, measurable goals

***
CRAFTED. is brought to you in partnership with Docker, which helps developers build, share, run and verify applications anywhere – without environment confirmation or management. More than 20 million developers worldwide use Docker's suite of development tools, services and automations to accelerate the delivery of secure applications. 
CRAFTED. is produced by Modern Product Minds, where CRAFTED. host Dan Blumberg and team can help you take a new product from zero to one... and beyond. We specialize in early stage product discovery, growth, and experimentation. Learn more at modernproductminds.com 
Subscribe to CRAFTED., follow the show, and sign up for the newsletter 👉 crafted.fm

When Docker restructured, the company went back to its roots: super-serving developers. CTO Justin Cormack says that’s why the company is developer-obsessed, not customer-obsessed: “We really wanted to focus on the fact that it's the developer who loves Docker. It's the developer who is going to be using Docker every day…” 
Over the past decade, Docker exploded in popularity as companies moved to cloud and adopted software containers as they did... but the company struggled as a business and, five years ago, made massive changes: “When we restructured people were like, `Well, I kind of hope this works, but I doubt it will.`” 
Well, it’s working. Docker is now bigger than ever and growing.
On this episode of CRAFTED... We'll discuss developer productivity, how Docker continues to build new products to improve it, and why so many organizations are in an awkward phase, with too many responsibilities being put onto the developer. 
We’ll also look beyond the container to new vectors of growth, including helping companies put GenAI to production. 
Plus, Justin will share tips for developers on how they can better communicate their needs. And what CFO-types can do in return: “the one thing they can do is actually listen to the developers!”
***
Key Moments:

[3:13] Why Docker needed to restructure and refocus and why the turnaround has been a success
[04:52] Why Docker is “developer-obsessed” not “customer-obsessed” 
[6:13] Docker’s explosive growth in its early years: containers, the cloud and microservices
[08:48] Docker's Successful Restructuring and Product Development
[11:22] “Shift Left” and why this trend of putting more responsibility onto developers earlier and earlier in development is great, but also can put too much pressure on developers, who need to be supported
[13:53] How Justin and team prioritize Docker's roadmap 
[16:48] AI: How Docker is helping its client build RAG and other GenAI apps, and the tricky infrastructure needed to support them
[19:38] Developer productivity and the importance of the inner loop
[27:01] Developers love their laptops! And why Windows machines have become so popular
[30:40] How to talk so your CFO will listen and the rise of business-focused engineers
***
CRAFTED. is brought to you in partnership with Docker, which helps developers build, share, run and verify applications anywhere – without environment confirmation or management. More than 20 million developers worldwide use Docker's suite of development tools, services and automations to accelerate the delivery of secure applications. 
CRAFTED. is produced by Modern Product Minds, where CRAFTED. host Dan Blumberg and team can help you take a new product from zero to one... and beyond. We specialize in early stage product discovery, growth, and experimentation. Learn more at modernproductminds.com 
Subscribe to CRAFTED., follow the show, and sign up for the newsletter 👉 crafted.fm

Software, hardware, and biotechnology are playing an increasingly transformative role in our mental health and wellness. On this episode of CRAFTED., recorded live on the “Next” stage at SXSW, we discuss what investors look for in these new companies and how they separate what’s real — and what’s near-term — from what’s hype. 

On stage with host Dan Blumberg are:
Amy Kruse, General Partner & Chief Investment Officer at Satori Neuro, and a trained neuroscientistMatias Serebrinsky, Co-founder and General Partner at PsyMed Ventures, and the host of Business Trip, which is a great podcast if you want to go even deeper on these topics. Listen at businesstrip.fm Christie Nicholson, Founder of Studio Lumina, and the co-host for this panel
We’ll explore AI-powered tools for mental health, the new area of “enerceuticals” (energy replacing the “pharma”), psychedelics, and why what’s in your gut is so important to your mental state. Hear from investment experts who have a wide view of this growing startup landscape and better understand which new ventures are likely to succeed.

— 
Key Moments:

[03:18] Recent advances in biotech and why advances in data and AI are helping biology become a more “mature” science

[05:30] Why AI is overhyped, but also where it’s not

[09:07] Why psychedelics are overhyped, but also where they’re not

[11:24] What’s real and amazing: brain-computer interfaces, e.g. humans controlling robotic arms with the minds

[13:55] What’s real and amazing: precision psychiatry and neuroscience

[15:42] The emerging field of “enerceuticals” -- using energy instead of drugs, e.g. low intensity focused ultrasound

[17:47] Neuroplasticity: our brains can change!

[23:01] Mental health, the gut-brain axis, and food as medicine

[34:58] The business models of bio tech startups and how to know when a company is making progress on a years-long effort

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CRAFTED. is brought to you in partnership with Docker, which helps developers build, share, run and verify applications anywhere – without environment confirmation or management. More than 20 million developers worldwide use Docker's suite of development tools, services and automations to accelerate the delivery of secure applications. Learn more at Docker.com

CRAFTED. is produced by Modern Product Minds, where my team and I can help you take a new product from zero to one... and beyond. We specialize in early stage product discovery, growth, and experimentation. Learn more at modernproductminds.com 

Subscribe to CRAFTED., follow the show, and sign up for the newsletter 👉 CRAFTED.fm