Destination Discourse

Destination Discourse
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Destination Discourse is the essential podcast for DMOs and travel industry professionals who want to stay ahead in destination marketing, stewardship, and management. Hosted by industry experts Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, each episode delves into the key issues and trends shaping the future of tourism. From cutting-edge innovations to the complex challenges of destination management, we offer thought-provoking insights, honest debates, and practical takeaways. Part love letter to the industry, part therapy session, and part user manual, Destination Discourse is your trusted source for real talk and expert advice. Join us to explore inspiring campaigns, hear from leading voices, and gain the insights you need to elevate your destination strategies.

  1. 4D AGO

    67: Are Data Hangovers and Zombie Metrics Putting DMOs at Risk? (Emily Zertuche)

    It’s the first recording of 2026, and Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back Emily Zertuche for round three. After a quick (and rusty) start, they dive into a timely question: as agentic AI accelerates, are DMOs’ fragmented data stacks and inconsistent narratives becoming a credibility risk? Using a Stu’s News example (L’Oréal’s partnership with NVIDIA), the conversation explores how major brands are embedding AI across operations to personalize experiences, scale content, and deepen first-party data relationships. The discussion quickly turns to destinations: if AI agents can cross-check claims across multiple sources, DMOs may need a far more defensible, coherent “single source of truth” across metrics, messaging, and governance. Emily introduces the idea of a “Coherence OS” for DMOs—an operating model that aligns tech, metrics, and narrative into one clear, trustworthy story. She outlines practical steps for addressing the industry’s growing data hangover, including auditing zombie metrics, publishing transparent metrics in AI-crawlable formats, moving past vanity metrics, and stress-testing narratives before stakeholders or AI agents do it for you. Along the way, the group runs a live AI experiment asking different tools the same question (“What’s the best family-friendly beach destination?”), revealing how results—and even categories—change by user and platform. The takeaway: we’re entering an era of “bubbles of truth,” where consistency and credibility matter more than ever. The episode closes with a candid discussion about trust, governance, and the uncomfortable reality that many boards already know which metrics are “BS.” As AI scrutiny increases, DMOs that rely on smoke, mirrors, or incoherent reporting may find themselves exposed—while those that prioritize clarity, transparency, and causal measurement will be better positioned to lead. ⸻ Key concepts you’ll hear • Data hangover: over-accumulated data without a unifying narrative • Zombie metrics: data collected out of habit that no one uses • Coherence OS: aligning metrics, tech, and story into one defensible narrative • The Whiskey & Coke test: proof + narrative, separable under scrutiny • Why AI will find the contradiction—and route around it

    59 min

  2. JAN 29

    66: Are DMOs Forgetting Why People Travel? (Amir Eylon)

    Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Amir Eylon (Longwoods International) broadcasting from “Snowmageddon Aftermath” in Ohio to talk about what matters beyond the AI headlines. Yes, they still touch AI, including early chatter about ads inside ChatGPT and what that could mean for destinations. But the heart of the conversation is a 2026 reset: get back to basics, remember why people travel, and build marketing (and stakeholder comms) that makes people feel something. Amir shares fresh readouts from Longwoods’ American Travel Sentiment Tracker: demand is still strong, but uncertainty is everywhere. Travelers are still planning trips, yet financial anxiety is rising, and the middle is getting squeezed. The opportunity, he argues, is to double down on emotional connection, regional drive markets, and storytelling that cuts through the noise. The trio also flips the lens inward: DMOs are often great storytellers in-market, but show up to stakeholder meetings with logic-first “data dumps.” They unpack why stories should lead and numbers should support, and Stuart shares a Myrtle Beach example where one influencer video did more to change a city council member’s perspective than any report ever could. What you’ll hear in this episode • Why 2026 is a “back to basics” year: togetherness, escape, and emotional needs driving travel • What Longwoods is seeing: strong intent to travel, but growing financial pressure and a squeezed middle • The rise of regional/drive travel and how “more trips” may look like more getaways • A practical watchlist: gas-price “sweet spots,” unemployment by feeder market, and household debt as a leading indicator • The marketing warning: over-optimizing for performance can starve the emotional storytelling that actually moves people • The creative gut check: stop making collage ads that list assets; start telling human stories people see themselves in • “18 Summers” (Idaho) as the gold-standard example of emotion-first destination storytelling • Stakeholder comms 101: make them feel something first, then use data as proof • Quick AI thread: ChatGPT ads could increase urgency for DMOs to align content, truth, and narrative consistency Memorable lines / themes • “Travel has become a need versus a want.” • “You want to be the winning DMO? Get their heartstrings better than your competitor.” • “The data should be the supporting material when you tell that story.”

    54 min

  3. JAN 22

    65: What Are the Desties' Predicting for Destination Marketing in 2026?

    Stuart and Adam open with a quick Miracle Morning check-in (45 days strong) and a reminder that early wins matter before work even starts. In Stu’s News, they unpack Steve Hill’s optimistic comments about Las Vegas tourism despite recent declines, and debate whether bold confidence is leadership or risk. Then the main event: predictions for 2026 submitted by “the Desties” (plus a few familiar friends of the show). Themes recur fast: AI needs to show real ROI, adoption is lagging behind capability, trust is becoming the central product, creativity can’t be sacrificed for “organization,” and DMOs must challenge the status quo or risk becoming irrelevant. ⸻ Predictions featured (and the debate around them) • Tim Peter: Executives will demand AI shows up in revenue or savings (“AI is everywhere except the P&L”).Take: Full agreement—2026 is the “prove ROI” year; teams must document impact. • Tim Peter: AI shopping/buying funnels still aren’t fully there; impact may be slower than expected.Take: Tech may be ready, adoption may not. Trust is the barrier. • Emily Zertucci: Winners won’t be biggest campaigns; they’ll build trusted destination knowledge layers + governance + AI-trustworthy content.Take: Adam pushes back on “either/or”—you need both organization and creativity. • MMGY team via Katie Briscoe: “Middle class gap”—industry is over-focused on luxury; missing the volume/value market.Take: Strong agreement. Value storytelling + merchandising matters in a K-shaped economy. • MMGY team via Katie Briscoe: “Anti-event traveler”—market to residents escaping disruption from major events.Take: A real niche opportunity, and AI may make it scalable to target + personalize. • Brad Dean (Visit St. Louis): 2026 = “year of the overcomer”: modest growth, but winners gain efficiency and ditch “married to the past.”Take: Key nugget: efficiency + refusing “because we’ve always done it.” Extend collaboration beyond the DMO. • Jeanette Roush (Brand USA): Signals from Google mean: worry less about formatting; prioritize original POV content.Take: “No notes.” Unique, first-person content that makes people feel something wins. • Jeanette Roush (Brand USA): Algorithmic pricing spreads beyond airlines into destinations; backlash when wealthy pay more.Take: Might happen later than 2026; if it does, transparency will be required. Likely OTA-led. • Dan Janes (Madden Media): Trust-seeking becomes the decision driver; AI + human content symbiosis grows.Take: Trust is the “product” after attention. Hallucinations + paywalls create risk and require verification habits. • Dan Janes (Madden Media): Agency consolidation accelerates; performance focus rises + a new era of scaled independents.Take: Both see it already—M&A activity is hot. • C.A. Clark (Miles): Most will use AI to do the same work faster; leaders will do new things they couldn’t do before with AI.Take: Stuart agrees but thinks the leader group will be tiny in 2026 due to trust + adoption friction. Big debate on whether the “gap” becomes uncatchable. ⸻ Quotables (for social clips/episode page) • “AI is everywhere except the P&L.” (Tim Peter, quoted by Adam) • “Anytime every ad is saying the same thing, none of the ads will work.” • “Action is not usually the result of a logical explanation, it’s the result of an emotion.” • “We’ve got to challenge the status quo… or we’re going to be so irrelevant that no one will defend why you exist anymore.” • “Be obsessed with the people we serve… and challenge the status quo.” ⸻ Key themes that tie the episode together 1. AI must produce measurable outcomes (time saved, costs avoided, revenue influenced). 2. Adoption lags capability (trust + friction are the blockers, not just features). 3. Creativity remains the differentiator (avoid “homogenous AI slop”). 4. Trust becomes the battleground (hallucinations, paywalls, verification habits). 5. Value markets matter (don’t abandon the middle while chasing luxury). 6. 2026 rewards reinvention (efficiency + letting go of “we’ve always done it”). ⸻ Practical takeaways for DMOs • Build an internal AI ROI scoreboard: hours saved, cycle time reduced, vendor spend reduced, leads influenced. • Pair “destination knowledge layer” work with creative output—don’t trade one for the other. • Run a value-forward merchandising test: budget itineraries, bundles, shoulder-season “value weeks,” and “how to travel smart” content. • Pilot an anti-event traveler campaign in 1–3 nearby disruption markets. • Require verification for AI-assisted research: click sources, watch paywall limitations, corroborate before stakeholder use. • Audit calendars for “because we’ve always done it” tasks and prune aggressively.

    1 hr

  4. JAN 15

    64: Are Adam Stoker’s 2026 Resolutions Right for DMOs?

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker dig into Adam’s 2026 resolutions for destination marketers. Rather than rehashing Adam’s full resolutions episode from the Destination Marketing Podcast, the conversation pulls out the most important ideas and stress-tests them through debate, real-world examples, and a healthy dose of humor. The discussion centers on what DMOs can truly control, how relevance should be defined and measured, and why the industry needs to rethink both its metrics and its talent models as AI accelerates change across marketing. ⸻ Stoops News Adam opens with a shout-out to a new destination podcast worth paying attention to: • Kristen Reynolds, known for her work at Discover Long Island and the Long Island Tea podcast, has helped launch a new show in Chicago: All for the Love of Chicago from Choose Chicago. • The Long Island Tea podcast stood out because it was conversational and entertaining rather than sales-driven. • The hope is that the Chicago podcast carries forward that same spirit and continues raising the bar for destination-owned media. Adam’s 2026 resolutions (and the debate they spark) Attention, trust, and the limits of control Adam introduces a simple but provocative framework: Attention + Trust + Circumstances = Action. • Attention matters more than basic awareness in an oversaturated media environment. • Trust is the real currency DMOs trade in as the source of truth for their destination. • Circumstances—timing, budget, life events—ultimately determine whether someone takes action, and those factors are outside a DMO’s control. This sparks a long debate about whether “circumstances” belongs in a prescriptive model at all. The underlying tension highlights a broader industry issue: DMOs often optimize reporting around outcomes they influence but do not fully control, particularly conversions. ⸻ True relevance vs. vanity metrics A major theme of the episode is the difference between activity that looks good on paper and outcomes that actually matter. • Many DMOs rely on metrics that create the illusion of effectiveness. • Eventually, stakeholders ask the harder question: if everything is working, why aren’t the results showing it? The conversation pushes toward first-principles thinking: • Why does the organization exist? • Who is the real customer? • What does success actually mean for this community? There is also recognition that macroeconomic and geopolitical forces heavily influence visitation, making relative performance (market share, outperforming peers) a more honest measure than raw totals alone. ⸻ Making stakeholder engagement a marketing pillar Another resolution focuses on how DMOs communicate their value to residents, businesses, and elected officials. • Stakeholders should be treated as a real audience with intentional messaging, not just periodic reporting. • Clear alignment on relevance has to come first—otherwise, louder communication can actually erode trust. The episode explores scrappy, practical ways DMOs can engage stakeholders without relying heavily on paid media, including earned media, partnerships, and regular local appearances. Why earned media is rising in importance Earned media is elevated as a priority, particularly in an AI-influenced discovery environment. • Third-party credibility signals appear to matter more than ever. • Being referenced, cited, or discussed by authoritative sources builds trust in ways owned media alone cannot. A practical takeaway emerges: journalists are stretched thin, and destinations that help them do better work—by offering strong story angles rather than fully baked press releases—are seeing higher engagement and better results. ⸻ From tactician to strategist The most future-focused resolution centers on people and organizational mindset. • Tactical execution is increasingly commoditized. • AI will handle more of the “doing.” • The highest value will come from strategic thinking, problem solving, and first-principles reasoning. The episode emphasizes scrappiness, comfort with uncertainty, and learning through failure. If teams aren’t occasionally uncomfortable, they likely aren’t stretching far enough to stay relevant. Why this episode matters This conversation isn’t about chasing trends or predicting specific tools. It’s about recalibrating how destination organizations think—about influence versus control, relevance versus optics, and strategy versus execution. It’s a candid look at what needs to change for DMOs to remain credible, trusted, and effective heading into 2026.

    56 min

  5. JAN 8

    63: What Questions Would You Ask a DMO If You Were New to the Industry? (Dustin Rowe)

    Stuart and Adam start off completely off the rails, then do something they don’t usually do: hand the keys to their guest. Dustin Rowe, CEO of whatsgood.city, flips the script and asks the questions that a lot of people entering the industry are thinking but rarely get to ask out loud.This episode turns into a rapid-fire tour through the DMO reality: what the job actually is, why ROI is so hard to prove, how resident sentiment fits into the visitor economy, and where “marketing” ends and “product” begins.Dustin’s “Stu’s News”: the airline loyalty backlashDustin brings a story that’s catching heat online: American Airlines no longer lets customers earn miles on Basic Economy (for new bookings). Adam doesn’t get the logic and argues it removes a reason to stay loyal. Stuart plays devil’s advocate and suggests the airline likely ran the numbers and decided the tradeoff was worth it, even if customers complain. Then Stuart admits he doesn’t actually like the change at all and was just enjoying the debate.What DMOs do, and why it’s hard to explainDustin shares that friends and family often don’t understand what a DMO is, and the only time they notice is when public funding hits the news. Adam frames the DMO role as building a long-term, sustainable economic pillar for the community through tourism. Stuart admits the industry has a branding problem because “if you’ve seen one DMO, you’ve seen one DMO,” and that ambiguity could come back to bite. He describes DMOs as sitting at the intersection of government, residents, businesses, and stakeholders, protecting and growing the visitor economy while managing the balance between tourism’s positives and negatives.The ROI problem: marketing that doesn’t own the transactionDustin asks the big one: how do you prove ROI on long-term projects like Traveling the Spectrum versus tactical channels like paid search and social ads? Stuart says it requires assumptions, stakeholder education, and defining what you can measure upfront—reach, earned media, cultural conversation, and anecdotal signals from surveys and visitor feedback. Adam adds his hunting versus farming analogy: stakeholders love “hunting” because it’s measurable, but “farming” builds residual value that can last for years, even decades.Backlash, risk, and the Reddit lessonDustin asks whether DMOs have experienced marketing backlash. Adam says a lot of pushback is just anti-tourism sentiment in certain communities rather than controversy from creative. Stuart tells a story about two Reddit campaigns: one that leaned into AI satire and went viral in a good way, and another that tried to poke fun at Gen Z culture and got shut down quickly because it was perceived as punching down. The lesson: risk can pay off, but satire has rules.Locals vs visitors: are DMOs missing the resident opportunity?Dustin pushes on whether DMO content—especially event information—should be designed for locals as much as visitors. Stuart says Visit Myrtle Beach needs to do a better job talking to residents and building civic pride, especially around downtown events and community participation. Adam makes the case that residents are one of the biggest drivers of visitation because visiting friends and relatives is such a large portion of travel, and it’s backwards that many funding structures restrict in-market messaging. Stuart agrees residents matter, but argues DMOs shouldn’t try to do it alone; it takes a coordinated ecosystem with city, county, chambers, and partner organizations.Product vs marketing: what really drives reputationTo wrap, Dustin asks how they think about destination product versus destination promotion. Stuart says the experience is the main thing—marketing can influence, but the on-the-ground product determines whether people return and tell friends. He argues DMOs should increasingly be involved in product and experience, not just promotion. Adam keeps it simple: as marketing sophistication increases, investment and focus on product should rise right alongside it.ClosingThey close with how to find Dustin and tease seeing people at February conferences. Then the conversation keeps going after the “official” outro with candid advice to Dustin on how to grow a vendor business in this industry: lean hard into testimonials, simple case studies, and asking for warm introductions—because trust and relationships are the real currency.

    48 min

  6. JAN 1

    62: What Are Stuart Butler’s Predictions for Destination Marketing in 2026?

    Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker kick off 2026 with a New Year’s episode built around Stuart’s “predictions” (not resolutions). They open with optimism (and a little healthy fear) about uncertainty, talk about the industry’s need for more honest conversations, invite listeners to two live appearances in Q1, and then dig into three big predictions for the destination marketing world in 2026: the DMO website won’t “die” this year (but the shift is real), consolidation will accelerate across vendors and DMOs, and experiences will increasingly outrank destinations as the primary travel motivator.Stu’s NewsInstead of a traditional news item, Stu’s News is an invitation: • Live appearance #1: South Carolina Governor’s Conference — Tuesday, February 10 (in Myrtle Beach, SC) • Live appearance #2: Destinations International Marcom Summit for Destinations — February 24–26 (they expect to speak on Thursday, February 26) • Stuart and Adam frame these as chances to bring real discourse to conference stages, pushing beyond “safe” programming and into the tougher conversations the industry needs.⸻The 3 predictions for 20261) AI won’t kill the DMO website in 2026 (but the era is changing)Stuart’s headline take: DMO websites won’t be “dead” within 12 months, but “it is the end of the beginning” for the traditional website-driven model.Key points discussed: • Humans are the bottleneck: capabilities are racing ahead, but adoption lags. • Website traffic decline is real, especially organic traffic, but much of what’s lost is low-value “simple Q&A” traffic now answered directly in search experiences. • DMOs shouldn’t panic, but they also shouldn’t pause preparation: start planting now (lean into conversational commerce and new user journeys). • Adam reframes it like an investment strategy: even if the website still performs, you diversify before the market shifts.2) Massive consolidation is coming (vendors and DMOs)Stuart predicts consolidation on “both sides of the fence”:Vendor side • Budget pressure on DMOs squeezes agencies, platforms, and software providers. • Stuart argues the current ecosystem is too fragmented and consolidation could create more cohesive product suites. • Adam agrees consolidation is inevitable (especially in SaaS), but worries consolidation could reduce the nimble, high-touch benefits of smaller agencies—and potentially slow innovation if done poorly. • Both agree: if consolidation happens, it needs to be additive and accelerate innovation, not stall it.DMO / community side • Stuart predicts growing consolidation through regional alignment, collaboration, and potentially mergers, driven by two scarcities: • Money • Human capital (the workload is expanding faster than staffing can) • He expects more “radical collaboration” across tourism, economic development, downtown/placemaking, realtor groups, etc. • Adam strongly agrees tourism and economic development being separate is often a miss, and gives an example from Utah where visitors don’t experience the boundaries between jurisdictions, yet the organizations are structurally split and duplicating efforts. • Stuart adds Myrtle Beach-area context: consumers don’t differentiate between lines on a map, so alignment matters.3) Experiences will replace destinations as the primary driverStuart’s most provocative concept: 2026 may be “the beginning of the end for the destination”—meaning the brand pull shifts toward experiences, moments, and events.Highlights: • Travel decisions increasingly start with a concert, a game, a viral restaurant, or something seen on social media, not “I want to go to X destination.” • Stuart shares examples of experience-driven demand (viral food spots, status posts, even hate-posts driving curiosity). • The implication: DMOs may need to re-embrace roles they’ve moved away from, including: • Experience curation • Product development influence (helping stakeholders “up their game”) • Event promotion and/or creation • Truth-bearing / trust-building as the source of what’s legit and worth doing • They agree this topic deserves a full standalone episode.Memorable moments & themes • “This is not financial advice, this is not legal advice” (Stuart jokingly sets the tone for predictions). • The “humans are the bottleneck” thread runs throughout the AI conversation. • “Radical collaboration” is positioned as more important than who gets credit. • A running joke about needing a new Stu’s News jingle by 2026 (and maybe flying cars too).What’s nextThey tee up several upcoming 2026-focused episodes: • An episode featuring submitted predictions from industry peers • Adam’s resolutions/predictions episode • A future episode with Amir discussing trends not strictly tied to AI

    54 min

  7. 12/25/2025

    61: Has our ability to measure outpaced our ability to explain? (Emily Zertuche)

    It’s a festive Destination Discourse that turns into a full-on industry thought exercise. Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back Emily Zertuche (record-setting past guest) for a Christmas episode that starts with meta-glasses and “Stu’s News” lyrics finally appearing on YouTube… then quickly escalates into a serious conversation about “data hangovers,” measurement overload, and why DMOs struggle to answer the simplest question in the boardroom: Did it work?Emily argues the problem isn’t a lack of data. It’s a lack of narrative coherence and governance across an increasingly messy data stack. She introduces the “whiskey and Coke test” for communication: boards don’t want an over-sweetened cocktail of metrics, they want a simple, defensible truth. The group debates attribution, false precision, and how AI will soon act like a prosecutor cross-examining discrepancies across dashboards and vendor reports.Then Emily goes for the sacred cow: she says the marketing funnel is a foundational conceptual error for destination marketing because vacations don’t behave like checkout flows. Travel decisions are messy, probabilistic, and shaped by circumstance. That pushes the conversation toward counterfactuals (“what if we did nothing?”), humility, and ranges instead of single ROI numbers.They wrap by calling it an existential issue for the industry, and invite more people into the conversation. Emily’s homework: go figure it out and come back in early January.⸻What you’ll hear in this episode • A chaotic Christmas intro, eggnog energy, and the debut of Stu’s News lyrics on YouTube (because Stuart didn’t realize Zoom exports could include screen share). • Meta glasses talk: capturing content hands-free, plus the “creepy” reality of audio + AI + ad targeting. • Stu’s News topic: Thailand’s “Half and Half” domestic travel subsidy and the idea of governments paying people to travel, plus discussion of whether incentives could ever apply to leisure travel. • Emily’s big thesis: DMOs have a “data hangover” from too many tools, dashboards, vendors, and definitions. • The boardroom moment of truth: “Did it work?” and why it’s so hard to answer coherently. • Emily’s framing: this is not just a data problem, it’s a meaning problem and a narrative problem. • The “whiskey and Coke test”: if you can’t explain the system simply, it loses legitimacy. • Funnel vs field: vacations behave like weather and probability, not a linear cause-and-effect funnel. • Counterfactuals and incrementality: what would have happened without the spend? • The danger of false precision (single ROI numbers) vs the honesty of ranges and assumptions. • The AI warning: stakeholders will use tools like ChatGPT/Gemini to find discrepancies and expose narrative-first reporting. • The prescription: govern the data stack (vendor layer → modeling layer → narrative layer) so the story is coherent, honest, and defensible.⸻Key quotes and concepts (verbatim from the transcript) • “Data hangover.” • “Did it work?” • “Measurement capacity has outrun our narrative coherence.” • “If a system can’t explain itself simply… it will eventually lose legitimacy.” (the “whiskey and Coke test” idea) • “False precision is so much more dangerous than uncertainty, because it’s a lie!” • “We’re not here to sell a number, we’re here to sell the logic that produced the number.” • Funnel critique: travel decisions are “spaghetti” (and even “spaghetti with maple syrup”). • Counterfactual framing: the honest question is “What if we did nothing?” • AI as prosecutor: it will cross-examine discrepancies across reports and dashboards.⸻Listener takeaways • If you can’t answer “Did it work?” in a way a board member can repeat, your measurement system is a risk—not an asset. • You don’t need more dashboards. You need governance and a narrative hierarchy that explains assumptions and uncertainty. • Stop treating destination decisions like e-commerce conversions. Travel influence is probabilistic and delayed. • If your reporting relies on cherry-picked metrics or “real data” claims, assume AI will expose it soon. • Credibility comes from assumptions + logic + ranges, not one magic ROI number.

    1 hr

  8. 12/18/2025

    60: Will This Announcement Shake Up the DMO Media World? (Zeek Coleman)

    Stuart and Adam open with Stu’s News on Australia’s move to restrict social media accounts for users under 16 on certain platforms, sparking a quick sidebar on parenting, addiction-by-design, and whether similar policy could ever happen in the U.S.Then the episode pivots hard into the main topic: a true “red pill” conversation about paid media transparency in the destination industry.Zeek Coleman returns with a surprise announcement: he’s leaving Tourism Economics to become President of Ad+genuity. From there, the three unpack the uncomfortable realities of programmatic buying, including incentives, margins, fraud, waste, premium inventory, and why DMOs can’t afford to hide behind vanity metrics if they want to defend funding and prove real impact.⸻Stu’s News (not the main topic) • Australia restricts social media accounts for certain platforms for users under 16, shifting enforcement burden to the platforms. • Stuart and Adam talk candidly about parenting in a social media era and how hard it is to manage phones and social pressure. • A broader debate emerges on government’s role in protecting kids versus leaving it solely to parents.⸻Main topicThe surprise announcement • Zeek announces he’s leaving Tourism Economics and stepping into the President role at Ad+genuity. • He frames the move as mission-driven: raising the bar for transparency, defensibility, and integrity in destination media.The red pill conversation • The group digs into how digital buying can create the appearance of success while hiding waste, fraud, and low-quality placements. • They discuss how the industry’s reliance on impressions and surface-level reporting can reinforce the “illusion of relevance.” • Stuart emphasizes the ecosystem problem: publishers, exchanges, buyers, and DMOs themselves can all play a role when hard questions aren’t asked.⸻Questions DMOs should ask their agency/media partners • Are you willing to share your margins and explain how you make money on my buy? • What fraud mitigation/verification are you paying for (and can you prove it’s used on our campaigns)? • How are you auditing and reducing waste in programmatic (middlemen fees, inefficient pathways, junk inventory)? • Can you provide a site list and show that you’re prioritizing premium, brand-safe environments? • How do you prevent obvious issues like stacked ads, repeated exposures, and in-market leakage?

    56 min
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5
out of 5
8 Ratings

About

Destination Discourse is the essential podcast for DMOs and travel industry professionals who want to stay ahead in destination marketing, stewardship, and management. Hosted by industry experts Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, each episode delves into the key issues and trends shaping the future of tourism. From cutting-edge innovations to the complex challenges of destination management, we offer thought-provoking insights, honest debates, and practical takeaways. Part love letter to the industry, part therapy session, and part user manual, Destination Discourse is your trusted source for real talk and expert advice. Join us to explore inspiring campaigns, hear from leading voices, and gain the insights you need to elevate your destination strategies.

Information

  • Creator
    Destination Discourse
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    68
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Show Website
    Destination Discourse

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