Destination Discourse

Destination Discourse
  • 5.0 (12)
  • Marketing
  • Updated Weekly

Destination Discourse is the essential podcast for DMOs and travel industry professionals who want to stay ahead in destination marketing, stewardship, and management. Hosted by industry experts Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, each episode delves into the key issues and trends shaping the future of tourism. From cutting-edge innovations to the complex challenges of destination management, we offer thought-provoking insights, honest debates, and practical takeaways. Part love letter to the industry, part therapy session, and part user manual, Destination Discourse is your trusted source for real talk and expert advice. Join us to explore inspiring campaigns, hear from leading voices, and gain the insights you need to elevate your destination strategies.

  1. 9h ago

    83: What Is the Real Purpose of a DMO? (LIVE from DI MarCom 2026)

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker share a live session recorded at Destinations International’s MarCom Summit, where they challenge the industry to rethink the role, purpose, and value of destination marketing organizations. The live conversation focuses on a first-principles question every DMO should be asking: Why do we exist? From there, Stuart and Adam explore who the DMO’s primary audience really is, how destination organizations should define success, and why the industry needs more honest debate about its future. Before the live session, Stuart and Adam set the tone by talking about the need for more respectful disagreement in destination marketing. They discuss the “tyranny of politeness,” the danger of avoiding hard conversations, and why real discourse is necessary if DMOs want to remain relevant in a rapidly changing travel landscape. While part of the original live recording was lost due to a technical issue, the remaining session captures a timely and important discussion about the future of DMOs and the need to move beyond inherited assumptions. Key Takeaways DMOs need to define their role from first principles, not legacy habits. The industry must be willing to debate difficult questions respectfully. The primary audience and purpose of a DMO are not always as obvious as they seem. Avoiding disagreement can prevent boards, teams, and destinations from making better decisions. The future of destination marketing will require more clarity, courage, and relevance.

    50 min

  2. May 21

    82: What Should DMOs Actually Be Doing With AI Right Now? (Janette Roush and Dan Holowack)

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by AI leaders Janette Roush and Dan Holowack for a fast-moving, no-fluff conversation on where AI is actually going—and what DMOs are missing right now. After some classic banter (and a custom-made Stu’s News jingle created at the gym), the conversation quickly shifts into a deeper look at how tools like Claude are evolving—from simple chat interfaces into full operating systems for work. 🧠 Key Takeaways 1. The shift is from “using AI” to “working inside AI.”The biggest mindset change isn’t about better prompts—it’s about moving your entire workflow into AI. Instead of bouncing between tools, AI becomes the central environment where work happens. 2. Speed of change is eliminating excuses.What wasn’t possible a few weeks ago is now possible. Waiting for the “right time” to adopt AI is no longer viable. 3. DMOs need an AI champion—now.If there’s one actionable takeaway: assign (or hire) someone responsible for AI across the organization. This person doesn’t need to be highly technical, but must be curious, capable, and empowered. 4. Organization-wide adoption beats individual experimentation.Letting employees experiment independently creates fragmentation. The real opportunity is aligning teams around shared tools, shared context, and shared workflows. 5. Build a “master context” for your organization.Centralizing your brand, strategy, and knowledge into a structured AI-readable format ensures consistency—and dramatically improves output quality. 6. Culture matters as much as tools.Adoption requires permission. Teams need psychological safety to experiment, fail, and share what they’re learning without fear. 7. AI will eliminate administrative work first.Reporting, data gathering, slide creation, and repetitive workflows are already being automated—freeing teams to focus on higher-value thinking. 8. Leaders should ask for data—not reports.Instead of static summaries, AI enables dynamic exploration. Point AI at your data and ask questions in real time to uncover insights. 9. Doing nothing is the biggest risk.Unstructured, “bring your own AI” usage creates security risks, knowledge loss, and inconsistency. Intentional adoption is safer than ignoring it. ⸻ 🔥 Notable Moments * A custom AI-generated Stu’s News jingle steals the show* Live discussion of Claude’s new design and Adobe integrations* Real-world examples of automating social media decision-making* A candid look at how organizations are (and aren’t) keeping up* A strong warning: DMOs risk irrelevance if they don’t evolve ⸻ 🎯 Bottom Line This episode isn’t about AI theory—it’s about operational reality. The tools are here, the shift is happening, and the gap between adopters and laggards is widening fast.

    1h 2m

  3. May 14

    81: Are DMOs Still Thinking Like Marketers Instead of Experience Creators? (Matt Vinson)

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Matt Vinson from Visit Dallas for a conversation about what destination marketing can learn from fresh perspectives, especially from sports, technology, and outside industries. After a chaotic intro, Adam’s public apology, and Matt’s brave admission that he hates the Stu’s News theme song, the group dives into the rapid evolution of AI tools like Claude Design, Claude Code, ChatGPT, Gemini, and Copilot. They explore what these tools mean for DMOs, why context is becoming one of the most important organizational assets, and how AI may change staffing, workflows, design, websites, and even the future of SaaS. Matt shares his perspective as someone who came into the DMO world from sports, including what surprised him most about the industry: the number of vendors, the politics of public funding, the limited number of dominant technology platforms, and the challenge of proving ROI when DMOs do not control the full customer journey. The conversation also tackles risk aversion in the DMO space, the “cycle of stagnancy,” the need for more experimentation, and why DMOs may need to become builders of tools, not just buyers of software. Finally, Matt shares lessons from sports marketing that destinations should embrace, especially the power of events, experiences, and deeper human storytelling. The group closes with a discussion on destination-owned events, community-driven experiences, and why the future of DMOs depends on creativity, courage, and a willingness to ask “what if?” Topics covered include: Claude Design, Claude Code, and the changing AI landscapeWhy context is critical for using AI wellHow DMOs may need to rethink org charts and AI trainingWhat sports marketing can teach destination marketersThe challenge of attribution and proving ROIWhy vendor selection may need to become more future-focusedThe opportunity for DMOs to build their own toolsWhy events and experiences may become essential travel motivatorsThe importance of human-centered storytellingHow DMOs can move beyond promotion and become true community builders

    59 min

  4. May 7

    80: Do We All Need To Be More Scrappy?

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker record together in Myrtle Beach for a conversation that gets personal, practical, and a little uncomfortable—in the best way. Stuart introduces a framework he’s been shaping over time: scrappy always wins. But this isn’t about doing more with less or glorifying hustle. It’s about something deeper. Scrappy is defined here as the intersection of courage and imagination—the willingness to challenge assumptions and the creativity to find a better way forward. Stuart shares how growing up with visual impairment and color blindness shaped the way he sees the world today, forcing him to question norms and build solutions differently. That perspective has carried into his professional life, where challenging the status quo isn’t optional—it’s the job. The conversation explores: * Why “scrappy” has been misunderstood—and what it actually means* The role of first principles thinking in breaking out of industry habits* What it looks like to truly obsess over the customer, not just talk about it* Why you have to be willing to “hug the cactus” and do the hard things others avoid* How long-term thinking unlocks ideas that don’t fit neatly into annual plans Stuart and Adam also reflect on real-world examples, including the creation of an award-winning TV show focused on neurodivergent travelers—an idea that didn’t come from following a playbook, but from rethinking what a destination brand could be. At its core, this episode is a challenge:In a world where technology is changing faster than ever, playing it safe is the riskiest move you can make. If you’re in destination marketing—or any industry facing disruption—this one will push you to rethink how you approach your work.

    1h 7m

  5. Apr 30

    79: Are DMOs too focused on the D and not enough on the O?(Matt Stiker)

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler, Adam Stoker, and returning guest Matt Stiker tackle one of the most entertaining—and surprisingly important—questions in destination marketing: Are DMOs too focused on the “D”… and not enough on the “O”? Yes, the title is a little clickbaity. Yes, the jokes write themselves. But underneath it is a real conversation about relevance, value, and what DMOs actually exist to do. The episode kicks off with Stu’s News, where the team briefly revisits the rapid evolution of AI tools and how they’re shifting work from “helping” to actually doing. But the real meat of the episode is a thoughtful (and occasionally juvenile) debate about the future role of DMOs. Matt introduces the idea that DMOs may be over-indexing on promoting the destination while under-investing in the strength and clarity of the organization itself—especially when it comes to proving value to stakeholders. Stuart pushes back, sharing how Visit Myrtle Beach is evolving its role beyond promotion into full stewardship of the tourism economy—from air service and major events to infrastructure, workforce, and even utilities. His perspective: if you’re only talking about marketing, you’re underselling the real impact. Adam brings a needed balance, warning against overcorrecting. If DMOs lose focus on driving visitation, none of the rest matters. The destination still has to perform—and that starts with compelling promotion. What emerges is a more nuanced truth: * Outside your market, it’s all about the destination* Inside your community, it’s all about the organization* And long-term relevance depends on getting both right The conversation also challenges the industry’s reliance on outdated metrics like website traffic and attribution, arguing instead for a bigger-picture view: economic impact, community outcomes, and the ability to influence what wouldn’t happen without you. In this episode: * The real meaning behind “the D vs the O”* Why DMOs must evolve beyond promotion* Who the true “customer” of a DMO actually is* Why attribution is getting harder—and less relevant* The risk of overcorrecting away from destination marketing* How to communicate value without relying on vanity metrics* Why “this stuff doesn’t just happen” might be the most important message of all Key takeaway:You need the D. You need the O.But if you can’t explain why your organization matters, someone else will eventually decide it doesn’t.

    1 hr

  6. Apr 23

    78: Are DMOs Missing the PTO Hacking Opportunity? (Caleb Sullivan)

    What happens when travelers start treating their vacation calendar like a strategy game? In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back Caleb Sullivan for a conversation that starts with podcast banter, Claude productivity talk, and a plug for Caleb’s new podcast, Give Me Some Good News — then quickly turns into a smart discussion about a timely tourism marketing question: Are destinations overlooking the growing trend of PTO optimization? Caleb makes the case that “PTO hacking” — where travelers use holidays and strategic time off to stretch a few vacation days into longer getaways — could be a real opportunity for DMOs. The discussion explores whether this is a niche internet trend or the beginning of a broader shift toward micro-vacations, micro-seasonality, and new demand-generation strategies. Stuart pushes back on whether this is too granular to market directly, especially through paid media, while Adam argues the real opportunity is not in running ads about PTO, but in creating useful content, itineraries, and experiences that help travelers act on the insight. The conversation also expands into a bigger idea: as travel behavior fragments, are DMOs increasingly becoming curators of distinctive experiences rather than just promoters of place? Along the way, the group discusses: • Caleb’s new podcast, Give Me Some Good News • Why Claude Co-Work is becoming dangerously productive • PTO hacking as a potential travel demand signal • Why educational content may be more effective than direct deal-driven promotion • The rise of micro-vacations and shoulder-season opportunities • Conway, South Carolina’s Halloween success as a model for building demand through experience creation • Why destinations need to know their brand before creating new experiences • Caleb’s new role with Datafy leading East Coast growth strategy It’s a fun, thoughtful episode about timing, creativity, branding, and how destinations can find openings others miss. #DestinationDiscourse #TourismMarketing #DestinationMarketing #DMO #TravelMarketing #PTOHacking #MicroVacations #TourismStrategy #PlaceBranding

    45 min

  7. Apr 16

    77: Is Your Paid Media Strategy Built for a World That No Longer Exists?

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are back for a long-overdue one-on-one conversation, and they waste no time jumping into two big topics that could reshape destination marketing. First, Stuart shares why he believes AI has reached another watershed moment. He breaks down how his team at Visit Myrtle Beach is using Claude Co-Work not just as a chatbot, but as something much closer to a true teammate. From building board presentations to turning complex analytics into polished stakeholder updates in minutes, Stuart argues that AI is moving from simple assistance to real workflow integration. The conversation explores what that means for productivity, strategy, and the future value of destination marketers. Then Adam shifts the discussion to paid media and makes the case that most destination organizations are still budgeting for an old media world. In today’s attention economy, he argues, paid media should be used less as a fixed annual plan and more as a flexible engine to amplify content that has already proven it can earn attention. That sparks a lively debate between Stuart and Adam about risk, measurement, creativity, media mix, and whether smaller DMOs should make bolder moves instead of copying larger destinations. It is a classic Destination Discourse episode: part AI wake-up call, part strategy debate, and part reminder that the industry cannot afford to stand still. Topics covered: • Why Stuart sees Claude Co-Work as a major AI breakthrough • How AI is helping small teams move faster and think bigger • What happens when the cost of strategy support and execution drops close to zero • Why destination marketers may need to rethink the value they provide to stakeholders • Adam’s evolving view of paid media in the attention economy • Why high-volume, high-variety content may outperform polished annual campaigns • The role of paid media in scaling attention once it is earned • Why smaller DMOs may have more to gain by moving quickly If this episode got you thinking, share it with a colleague in the industry and subscribe for more conversations on where destination marketing is headed.

    55 min

  8. Apr 9

    76: Are We Treating AI Like Google Instead of a Co-Worker? (CA Clark)

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined once again by AI strategist C.A. Clark for a wide-ranging conversation about artificial intelligence, adoption gaps, and what the technology actually means for the future of work in tourism. The discussion begins with a look at recent job market data and the growing debate around whether AI is already affecting employment. While the long-term outlook may include economic growth and new opportunities, the group explores the short-term disruption that could occur as industries adapt—particularly for entry-level and white-collar roles. From there, the conversation shifts into what may be a bigger issue: the massive gap between AI’s real capabilities and how most organizations are actually using it. Many professionals claim to be using AI, but in reality they’re treating it like a slightly smarter search engine. Meanwhile, the tools themselves are advancing at an exponential rate. C.A. argues that the biggest shift isn’t about delegating tasks to AI—it’s about learning how to work differently alongside non-human intelligence. That requires experience, experimentation, and a willingness to rethink traditional workflows. The group also explores why many organizations—including DMOs—are struggling to adopt AI meaningfully. Conferences often spend too much time explaining what AI is instead of showing real use cases. At the same time, many teams are waiting for a perfect moment to start experimenting instead of learning by doing. The takeaway: the window for experimentation is right now. The hosts discuss how younger generations may actually have an advantage in this environment, how AI could drive a new wave of entrepreneurship, and why skills like trust, taste, and execution may become the most valuable roles humans play in an AI-powered world. If you’re still sitting on the sidelines with AI—or just scratching the surface—this conversation is a reminder that the time to start experimenting is already here. Key topics in this episode: • Is AI already impacting jobs and the travel economy? • Why entry-level career ladders may be changing • The growing gap between AI capability and real-world adoption • Why using AI like Google misses the point • The mindset shift required to work alongside AI • How Gen Z may be uniquely prepared for AI-era work • Why DMOs need to move from talking about AI to showing real use cases • Why 2026 may be the tipping point for meaningful AI adoption Tools mentioned in the episode: • Claude • Gemini • Replit • AI “thinking models” and co-working tools

    57 min
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5
out of 5
12 Ratings

About

Destination Discourse is the essential podcast for DMOs and travel industry professionals who want to stay ahead in destination marketing, stewardship, and management. Hosted by industry experts Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, each episode delves into the key issues and trends shaping the future of tourism. From cutting-edge innovations to the complex challenges of destination management, we offer thought-provoking insights, honest debates, and practical takeaways. Part love letter to the industry, part therapy session, and part user manual, Destination Discourse is your trusted source for real talk and expert advice. Join us to explore inspiring campaigns, hear from leading voices, and gain the insights you need to elevate your destination strategies.

Information

  • Creator
    Destination Discourse
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    84
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Show Website
    Destination Discourse

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