For Context

For Context

For Context is a podcast celebrating Northern Seminary's D.Min. in Contextual Theology by interviewing its graduates, faculty, and current students. forcontextpod.substack.com

Episodes

  1. APR 1

    Episode 03 - Jon Massimi

    For Context: Dr. Jon Massimi Episode # 03 🎙️ Episode Overview On this episode of For Context, Dr. Jon Massimi, another Canadian, joins Luke and Gino to discuss contextual theology. Jon is a graduate (second cohort!) of the Doctorate in Ministry in Contextual Theology program at Northern Seminary. They discuss how contextual theology works in every day life by changing our posture toward our neighborhood. Whether the conversation is focused on the Eucharist or AI and Pentecostal memory, this episode is worth your time. Listen in! For Context is sponsored by Northern Seminary. To learn more about the Contextual Theology program (or any of the number MA, M.Div, and D.Min offerings), visit seminary.edu. 📚 Resources * Gino Curcuruto: Following Jesus Into the Ordinary * Luke Stehr: Faith In Situ 🤝 Join the For Context Community If you enjoyed this deep dive, consider becoming a paid subscriber to help us keep providing the context behind the news. * Subscribe to the Newsletter: forcontextpod.substack.com Leave a Review: Apple Podcasts | Spotify Episode Transcript Gino Curcuruto: I am Gino Curcuruto. Luke Stehr: I’m Luke Stehr Gino Curcuruto: And you’re listening to For Context, Luke Stehr: A podcast about Northern Seminary’s Doctorate of Ministry in Contextual Theology. Today on For Context we have Jon Massimi. Jon Massimi is a professor, speaker, and experiential learning designer who helps leaders, educators, and the curious turn experiences into insight and connection. His work explores how faith community and the gifts of ordinary people can reshape how we face complex challenges. Gino Curcuruto: I loved having this conversation and I know you did too. Luke, this is a great episode and I hope that you all listening enjoy it as well. Luke Stehr: All right, Gino. Today we’ve got Jon Massimi who’s here with us. Jon, why don’t you just tell us a little bit about yourself, where you are and how long ago was it that you went to Northern? Because I’ve never met you. I don’t know that Gino’s ever met you, so I think it’s been a little bit since you graduated. Jon Massimi: Well, I find myself in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. Before that, I was in a town called Branford, Ontario. I’m mentioning that because it is the birthplace of Wayne Gretzky and since nice, Luke Stehr: Notable Jon Massimi: Hockey, it’s a Gretzky town there. Luke Stehr: Do you feel like being from the same town as Gretzky helped you with Fitch? Jon Massimi: Somewhat. Somewhat. I think navigating the hockey metaphors and Hauerwas was a skill. Gino Curcuruto: That’s great. Jon Massimi: So when did I start the program? I started in 2013 and then from there graduated 2017. Luke Stehr: That’s awesome. What made you want to go into a program focused on contextual theology? Jon Massimi: When it first started it was Missional Leadership and that was the buzz at the time. So we all started Missional Leadership, my denomination, so I’m an Anglican priest, like that idea of leadership and wanting people to take charge. And then midway through the program it changed to” contextual theology, which I think is actually a better term to use. So what drew me into the program, it was very much relationships. I saw Fitch at a couple of gatherings in and around town here, so London, Ontario. So that’s about two hours where I am, and just found that he had similar connections and we knew similar people and I was just sharing my desire to continue my education and he goes, “Hey, I’m starting this new program.” And he goes, “come check it out.” So I missed joining the first cohort. I was the second cohort of the program. So before putting an application, I took a drive to Lombard and met with Fitch, brought my family, went to the old seminary, I guess Fitch comes out of his office with t-shirt and jeans and hey, he’s like, dude hugs me. And I said, I drove from Kitchener. This is about eight hour drive. You have any free books for me? He goes, “Hey, I’m not Scot McKnight.” And then I already know the dynamic there, but I already had his books that he had. So anyway. Gino Curcuruto: That’s great. Gino Curcuruto: Jon, what do you spend your time doing these days? You said Anglican priest, but also I believe you’re a professor as well. Jon Massimi: Yes. So the trajectory I was doing church planting when I first started the program and like all good Anglican diocese, they’re really great at that. No, they’re not. You got things started and it’s like, oh, there’s some traction going on here. Let’s create a regional ministry. That didn’t really work out. And I transitioned to working with United Way in neighborhoods, and That shift occurred kind of I would say midway point of the program. So I had a particular topic in mind and it completely shifted because of that work with United Way I started off. It sounds a position that sounds a little bit more important than it was. It was at first a neighborhood development officer. There were no badges involved, so just there it was building relationships within the community. And then I moved to being a manager of community development and then from there started working with my municipality. So I became a supervisor of community centers. So I had five community centers and every community center had a church plant in it. Gino Curcuruto: Oh, wow. Jon Massimi: So I was meeting with more pastors than ever and I started just gathering at my house. I’m like, let’s talk about what’s happening in the neighborhood and maybe it’s put some theological framing around it. And one of the participants worked at Martin Luther University College, so that’s where I’m at as an adjunct and they needed someone to teach a course and she goes, “I know someone.” So that started the journey there. I think I’m up to eight courses. I don’t teach ‘em altogether. It’s like eight courses. Luke Stehr: That’d be a crazy load. Jon Massimi: Yeah, it would be most definitely. And then with that, I also do consultancy work, so I do work with neighbor associations, municipalities, I’ve worked with churches and from that I landed in, started a travel company too. I do educational travel and experiences. So there’s been situations where I’m working with a client and I’m like, that’s really a cool idea. Let me take you somewhere and that somewhere could be up the street, another city, or let’s go to another country and see what this is about. So that’s where I’m by myself and I’m currently in my home office with my kids barred in another room, so Gino Curcuruto: That’s great. I’m also curious about your experience in the program knowing that it was, you said the second cohort, so I’m sure some things have developed and maybe you’ve had a view of that on the way, but what were some of the seminars that were impactful for you? Jon Massimi: Well, I think right out of the gate, my first class with Fitch where we were talking about what are the essentials of the church. So framing that, and I think I came... so back up a bit. I’m not a cradle Anglican, so my family was Roman Catholic, grandpa became Pentecostal. So the emphasis growing up for me was Jesus in your heart, personal relationship. And I’m going to throw this out right now because Fitch is also known for his Hauerwas interpret or impressions. So I was at this Hauerwas event and someone asked, “Dr. Hauerwas, what’s your view on having a personal relationship with Jesus?” And I’m not going to do the impression. He’s like, “well, I don’t find having a personal relationship with Jesus that interesting.” And she, because Christianity is a mediated faith. So for me, that was one of the main learnings because I came in with this, yes, I was in the Anglican church, liturgical formation was big, but there was still this theological hangnail where it was, Hey, I need to have a personal relationship here. And in that it was this Christology that came first, but emphasizing, okay, ecclesiology first this appreciation of the church and that we have this mediated faith and we receive a story that we in turn pass on in our shape by. So that was one of the main learnings. Gino Curcuruto: That’s good. Jon Massimi: The second thing I appreciated was our after class hangouts with Fitch. So that’s where I found in the class we did listening and we had some discussions, but the heavy lifting I think happened around Fitch’s kitchen table or patio where we, and that would also be the opportunity. He would come out with his letter from Hauerwas show us that, and then later This was a later edition, the autograph picture by Wayne Greg from Wayne Gretzky. So that was my connection to Branford. We hooked up that deal for him, but it is that, and I truly appreciated how he made time for all of us, and I think that also helped us forge relationships with one another. So we weren’t just relying on him, we were also bouncing ideas off of one another. Gino Curcuruto: Wow, Jon, that’s so good. That’s come up with in other discussions we’ve had with people. I’m glad to hear it. It’s a good reminder because the program in a lot of ways is promoted, if I can say it that way, as look at these amazing professors that you get to learn from. And that’s true and that’s good. Luke Stehr: Yeah, they’re amazing. Gino Curcuruto: They are amazing and I hope that draws people in. But at the same time, it seems like the people who have gone through this program emphasize yes, the professors and maybe even more so how they cultivate these relationships in the cohort. Luke, I don’t know if some questions come to mind for you, but I could go down that Hauerwas rabbit trail with Jon no problem. And might do that. But I’m going to give you this. Luke Stehr: I think before we get there, I think this is helpful because I know there are probably some people who are listening who are deeply f

    40 min
  2. MAR 18

    Episode 02 - Bernard Tam

    For Context: Bernard Tam Episode # 02 🎙️ Episode Overview In this episode of For Context, Bernard Tam joins Luke and Gino to discuss contextual theology. Bernard had just turned in the first draft of his dissertation for the Doctorate in Ministry in Contextual Theology program at Northern Seminary. On this episode, they discuss a bit of the program’s impact on Bernard, life and ministry in Toronto, and Bernard’s dissertation. Listen in! For Context is sponsored by Northern Seminary. To learn more about the Contextual Theology program (or any of the number MA, M.Div, and D.Min offerings), visit seminary.edu. 📚 Resources * Bernard Tam: The Living Room Church * Gino Curcuruto: Following Jesus Into the Ordinary * Luke Stehr: Faith In Situ 🤝 Join the For Context Community If you enjoyed this deep dive, consider becoming a paid subscriber to help us keep providing the context behind the news. * Subscribe to the Newsletter: forcontextpod.substack.com Leave a Review: Apple Podcasts | Spotify Episode Transcript Gino Curcuruto: I am Gino Curcuruto. Luke Stehr: I’m Luke Stehr. Gino Curcuruto: And you’re listening to For Context, Luke Stehr: A podcast about Northern Seminary’s Doctorate of Ministry in Contextual Theology. Gino Curcuruto: Welcome back to For Context. This episode we have as our guest, Bernard Tam. He’s a pastor and he’s finishing up the Contextual Theology program at Northern. He just, I believe he’s submitted his, a draft of his thesis. So he’s going to be, he lives in Toronto. I’m probably saying that wrong. They probably say Toronto, Canada, Ontario, Canada. And he’s a dear friend of mine. I’m excited to have this conversation with him and Luke. So listen in. We are Fitch really critiqued how we don’t have a radio dynamic. So I thought just a flat line silent introduction would be a really cool way to start this episode. Now welcome back to For Context. I’m Gino with Luke and Luke Stehr: I’m here. Gino Curcuruto: Yeah, good, good, good. Luke Stehr: Dave Fitch was right to critique our radio dynamic. Gino Curcuruto: He was, we’re more contextual theologians than performers. So that’s a little juke there. Got him, Luke Stehr: Got him. But today we’ve got Bernard Tam with us and I’m so glad Bernard could be here. Bernard, I think I’ve met you exactly once in real life. Bernard Tam: Yes. Luke Stehr: But it’s really great to be with you digitally again, so thanks for joining us. Bernard Tam: Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited to just chat and hang out. Luke Stehr: Yeah, well if you can’t tell from the accent. Bernard, where are you from? Bernard Tam: I’m from Toronto, Canada. Luke Stehr: Not Toronto. Gino Curcuruto: It’s not Toronto. Bernard Tam: Some people can call it that, Luke Stehr: Who? Who may call it Toronto, Bernard Tam: The un-Torontonians. Gino Curcuruto: Ah us. Luke Stehr: It’s a Shibboleth, so Gino Curcuruto: That’s good. That’s good. Well, I want to tell you, I want to say before we jump into the questions, Bernard and I have become friends because of this program. In some ways we were introduced through Fitch for something else. We’re both part of the Christian and Missionary Alliance, but then through our overlap in seminars when I was in the master’s program, we’d hang out and got to spend some time with him and then we’ve become friends. So I’m excited to see you though. I do talk to you regularly. I’m excited to see you. I am also excited for you to share about your experience in the Contextual Theology program. I understand you have just submitted your final thesis. Bernard Tam: First draft. Yes Gino Curcuruto: First draft. Okay. Bernard Tam: Waiting for all the critiques and the red marks. Luke Stehr: Well maybe you can talk some of it out now and those critiques and red marks won’t feel so bad when they come. You’ll think, oh, I should have done that maybe. Bernard Tam: Yeah, we’ll see how it goes. Luke Stehr: But why don’t you tell us just about your ministry context and your church structure? Bernard Tam: Yeah, totally. I’m part of a church called the Living Room Church. It’s in what is known as Midtown Toronto. So just imagine the city of Toronto and then you draw a giant circle around kind of the core. We’re kind almost dead set in the middle, So we’re kind of straddling the urban center and what eventually becomes a suburbs. So we’re kind of like this unique space where interestingly in my research, it’s really hard for people to define. It’s almost like a little bit of a nebulous space that people are constantly trying to figure out the definition, but it’s just never a clear one, but in the midst of it. So I’ve been a part of this community for about 13 years and over the last 10 we’ve been kind of emerging into a network of house churches and part of which is just realizing where our points of connections with our neighborhood is that it’s actually not necessarily a Sunday service that people are looking for, but it’s the deep relationality in our living room that people have an openness and a willingness to kind of embrace and engage with one another. So we’ve been doing that for a little bit. We’re still learning. I feel like it’s never a simple, you don’t just do one thing and that’s it. There’s always learning, there’s always changes. So we are kind of coming at it with humility as much as we can. What’s kind of unique about our neighborhood is often it used to be known, so the main intersection of our neighborhoods called Yonge and Eglington, and it was once known as the young and the eligible because it was actually where it was a little bit more affordable. The young urban professionals are able to move in and they’re all singles and they’re all trying to figure out life in this big city. But now over the last couple of years, it’s really has changed. The neighborhood is very diversified. It’s not young and eligible anymore. When we first moved in, we were worried I had a 2-year-old. Then we’re like, oh, is he going to have any friends young and eligible? There’s gonna be no kids? And then all of a sudden an explosion happened and there’s so many kids in our neighborhood to the point where some of the new developments in our community have signs that says, even though you are going to be living beside a school, your kids will not guarantee a spot in the school. Wow. That’s kind of how crazy it gets, but it’s been beautiful to see kind of the intermingling, the mixture of culture in our neighborhood. When I go pick up my kids from school, English is not the common language for you to hear. There’s people from all over, from Europe, from Asia, from Latin America, and there’s this kind of become this eclectic mixture of culture in our community. And so it’s been a gift and a fascinating space to do ministry and learn. Luke Stehr: Yeah. What do you feel like as you’ve been in that neighborhood for quite some time now, what are some of the things that as you sit in that space that have emerged for you just as you’ve learned to listen to what’s happening there? Bernard Tam: I think one of the things that I’ve observed and learned, and maybe it’s been unearthed through many conversations, is the deep longing for relationships. Just the depth of loneliness living in the city is exposed through many conversations. So I remember when we first moved down into the neighborhood, I was really inspired by Caesar Kalinowski. There was a post that he put about how he was new to the city, I think it was New York, and he just threw himself a welcome to the Neighborhood party. He knows nobody. I’m like, that’s a brilliant idea, let me do that. And so we did. And with Fear and Trembling and my cute 2-year-old in my arm, I made up these little flyers and just passed around the neighborhood like, Hey, hosting this thing, I want to get to know the neighborhood and weren’t sure if anybody going to show up. I remember it’s like we were doing it at six o’clock and by 5:55 nobody was there and 6:10, nobody was there like, oh man, maybe this is just like Susan and I and my son and that’s it. And then all of a sudden neighbors kind of start coming out. I think at the end we had about 30 or 40 people that had come by the row. So I live in this townhouse complex and in the midst of some of those conversations, one really resonated with me. There was a lady who came up to me later and said, I lived here for seven years, but I have not met so many neighbors tonight. And more and more in these kind of conversations, there’s just this realization that I think everybody’s longing for relationship, but there’s no catalyst for that. There’s nobody to set the table for people to be together to curate the spaces for conversations, to even just be the one to draw people together in the common space. And so I think that was probably one of the biggest learning amongst the hidden socioeconomic realities in urban centers. So there’s just a lot of complexities I find once you’re actually living in the neighborhood. Gino Curcuruto: Speak more to that, Bernard. When you look at the changes in your neighborhood, and as you have just explored your context over the years, has that affected the way that you organize as a church or what you do as a church? Bernard Tam: Yeah, I think that’s a good question. I think in some ways it has kind of drawn us to think about where and who are the population that God might be opening spaces and doors for us as a church to connect and engage with. One of which I think it’s the doors that open for the marginalized seniors in our community. As I mentioned before, this neighborhood was known as the young ineligible urban professionals. They are lively now. We have a lot of young families. But at the same time, being in this community, we also gotten to know there are hidden communities wi

    49 min
  3. MAR 4

    Episode 01 - Dr. David Fitch

    For Context: Dr. David Fitch Episode # 01 🎙️ Episode Overview In this inaugural episode of For Context, Luke and Gino interview David Fitch. Fitch is the founder and director of the Doctorate in Ministry in Contextual Theology program at Northern Seminary. On this episode, they discuss a bit of the program’s origin story as well as why and how contextual theology works as a discipline. Give it a listen! For Context is sponsored by Northern Seminary. To learn more about the Contextual Theology program (or any of the number MA, M.Div, and D.Min offerings), visit seminary.edu. 📚 Resources * David Fitch: Fitch’s Provocations * Gino Curcuruto: Following Jesus Into the Ordinary * Luke Stehr: Faith In Situ 🤝 Join the For Context Community If you enjoyed this deep dive, consider becoming a paid subscriber to help us keep providing the context behind the news. * Subscribe to the Newsletter: forcontextpod.substack.com Leave a Review: Apple Podcasts | Spotify Episode Transcript Gino Curcuruto: I’m Gino Curcuruto Luke Stehr: And I’m Luke Stehr Gino Curcuruto: And you’re listening to For Context Luke Stehr: A podcast about Northern Seminary’s Doctorate of Ministry in Contextual Theology. So today on For Context we have Dr. David Fitch, who heads up the Contextual Theology program at Northern. He’s a ton of fun, we hope you enjoy the episode. Gino, do you want to say anything more to introduce Fitch? Gino Curcuruto: Well I think it’s good we were able to start this podcast with an interview with Fitch, so he can kind of give us a history of the program, what the intent back in the day was, and where it’s heading in the future. Luke Stehr: So it’s a great episode, we had a ton of making it, and we hope you enjoy it, and it’s enough that you wanna stick around. It’s our first For Context ever, and we hope it is enough you wanna keep sticking around. If you’re on Substack, go ahead and hit that “Subscribe” button that way you can make sure you know when new episodes release. Gino Curcuruto: For our first episode of For Context, we are happy and pleased to have as our guest Dr. David Fitch. We are, both Luke and I are both as those who have listened to our intro, know that we’re students in the Contextual Theology D.Min. program at Northern Seminary, of which Fitch is the director, the founder, the chief instigator, and all of those other things that people will call him. So we wanted to get him on the podcast from the beginning and ask him a little bit about the history of this, where the idea for this program started. What was the inspiration, why the need you go ahead and riff on those ideas for us please. David Fitch: First of all, I’m honored to be on the first podcast of this podcast. Luke Stehr: It’s an honor. David Fitch: I’m feeling very, very honored. But you guys need to work on your radio vibe. We call it in the business, we call it the radio vibe. Gotta have a vibe. Luke Stehr: We did almost call this “Fitch’s Old Time Radio Show.” Gino Curcuruto: Yeah, we were thinking about that as the name, “The Old Time Fitch Radio Show.” David Fitch: Definitely by choice on name don’t go that direction. It’s going to, Luke Stehr: It would’ve been a tribute to someone we’ll keep nameless. David Fitch: You’re going to go from, we now have three listeners, all three of us being ourselves, and we’re going to go down to two if you do that. Luke Stehr: We are, David Fitch: We just, ladies and gentlemen, it’s just great to be on this podcast. What’s it called again, Luke? Luke Stehr: For Context. David Fitch: I dunno. Luke Stehr: He’s not sure about this. Gino Curcuruto: Wow. Wow. We didn’t know we were doing critique. We thought we just going to get a little bit of a, David Fitch: Can I just give you two words? Radio vibe. You got to have a radio. I know. It’s a podcast. Radio vibe. Alright, this is amazing ladies, gentlemen, great to be on For Context here, live in whatever studio this is. I have no idea where we are. And let’s get going with the show. Yeah, do Luke, let’s get going with the show. I know you have some questions. Gino Curcuruto: Yeah, David Fitch: Tell us Luke, by the way, Luke actually sent me the questions. I did not have time to actually read the questions. Luke Stehr: You don’t need them. You don’t need them. We’re off the cuff. It’s even better. David Fitch: It’s even better. Luke Stehr: So live radio feeling that you just so desperately crave. David Fitch: Yes. Luke Stehr: So this program started several years ago. What was the inspiration for starting a contextual theology program? And maybe there are some people out there, like the many people I talk to week in and week out who go, what the heck is contextual theology? So what’s the inspiration for it? And maybe define some terms in there. David Fitch: There’s a little bit of history here. We started, started by calling it, I don’t know, D.Min. in missional theology or missional, I can’t remember. And then the name didn’t thoroughly capture what we were trying to do. We were trying to give pastors a theological frame to engage the cultures that they’re surrounded in for the gospel. And the missional thing kind of got lost in a bunch of the whole missional movement. This is like 20 years ago when I was Gino’s age 20 years ago actually. I would be possibly slightly younger than you. But anyways, all that to say, all that to say that, yeah, there are issues all around us in the culture that we operate. Pastors, churches, theologians operate out of a mindset of a Christendom, the mindset we’re in charge. We get to tell people where they’re wrong. We get to go out and give them the gospel on our terms. And all of this is no longer functioning well in the places it still functions in maybe Southern Baptist worlds and where Luke lives. But that was a beneath, that was a little surprising turn there. But doesn’t, Luke Stehr: Not a Southern Baptist, just for the record, David Fitch: but doesn’t work in places where Christendom and Christianity and the culture have split. And so we wanted to give people tools, understandings, ways of thinking, how to engage a local culture for the gospel. And there are issues out there. There’s racism, there’s sexuality, gender, there’s economics, there’s politics. It’s all become very divisive. How do we engage it for the gospel? We believe God’s at work in these spaces to bring not only healing transformation to these spaces, but bring people to himself in Jesus Christ as Lord. So that’s my opening salvo, the D.Min. in Contextual Theology. But for you two guys who are still in the middle of your program, what do you think, I mean, where is the touch point that is of importance for you in this program? Give me a touch point. Gino Curcuruto: Yeah, well, you mentioned it there of what does it look like to take the gospel into the many cultures that we live around among. And oftentimes one of the things that attracted me to this program is oftentimes we give lip service to that and we try to contextualize the gospel without learning the context in which we live. So the heavy emphasis on knowing the cultures on learning and reading broadly and studying these concepts is really helpful. That I’m not just giving lip service to this idea, but actually engaging my neighbors and understanding things. Sometimes actually understanding why they live the way they do more clearly than they do. Luke Stehr: And I think for me, I had a pretty good robust foundation coming out of my master’s studying missiology, culture, all these things. And so I was already very used to thinking kind of along those terms, particularly from a more world Christianity perspective, but increasingly found myself in more secularized spaces and western contexts and wanted to go more specifically into the issues that present in those western contexts and environments, which Northern’s program is not exclusively talking about those things, but there’s a strong focus on the North American, European post-Christian context that I wanted to expand my knowledge and my ability to be a good practitioner in those spaces. David Fitch: Yeah, yeah, very helpful. The complexity here is often missed by the context that I’ve come out of, which is mainly white evangelicalism. Although I come out of a brand that is more like holiness Pentecostal. And that in and of itself is a different, it’s got a different theo-vibe than say most reformed theologies. But having all that, there’s still a problem here. I like to use the example of sexuality. I like to go right there to the most conflictual issue of our... Luke Stehr: Nice and easy. David Fitch: And I like to say, okay, we as a church like to make pronouncements. We affirm LGBTQIA+ used to be just LGBT or we do not affirm. And these are postures and policies which we think address the cultural issue of sexuality, but written into this approach is a posture of A.) power over, and B.), not listening to our surrounding cultures and even understanding what it might mean to say I’m gay. We assume because we are caught in these Christendom postures that we know what it means to say I’m gay. We do not. And this of course is now a most recent book that was published last year, the end of last year by Yarhouse and his co-author, who I can’t remember her name right now, I think it was 72 different sexual identities. If you think you know what your, the struggling students, let’s just say the 10 year olds, the 15 year olds they’re going through and you just assume, we do not affirm or affirm you’ve missed the whole engagement process. Likewise, if you just assume that the average person who’s going through these identity locations or struggles or whatever you want to call it, that you understand their histories and what brought them there and where the issue is, you will never connect.

    46 min

About

For Context is a podcast celebrating Northern Seminary's D.Min. in Contextual Theology by interviewing its graduates, faculty, and current students. forcontextpod.substack.com

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