For Context: Season 02 Episode 03 🎙️ Episode Overview In this episode of For Context, hosts Gino Curcuruto and Luke Stehr sit down with alumnus Fred Liggin. Fred reflects on his 10-year journey through Northern Seminary’s Doctor of Ministry (D.Min) in Contextual Theology program, balancing long-term academic work alongside 24+ years of local church ministry and nonprofit leadership in Williamsburg, Virginia. He shares insights on pastoral presence, navigating racial dynamics, building a culture of radical hospitality, and how personal relationships with those experiencing disability shape ecclesial life. Key Discussion Points * The “10-Year Marathon” & Academic Journey: * Fred lightheartedly shares what it was like taking 10 years to complete his dissertation—navigating three U.S. presidential administrations, watching multiple cohorts graduate, and getting teasing encouragement from Dr. David Fitch. * Reflects on how Northern Seminary’s core focus on contextualization, pastoral scholarship, and cohort collegiality remained consistent throughout institutional evolution. * Dissertation Focus: Hospitality, History & Trauma: * Thesis Topic: How a theology of hospitality within a racialized culture of collective trauma forms the witness of Williamsburg Christian Church. * Interdisciplinary Approach: Blends theology of hospitality, local history (Williamsburg/historic triangle), trauma studies, and racialization using an ethnographic methodology. * Post-COVID Evolution: Expanded his research to address racial dynamics and reconciliation as his local congregation grew increasingly multiracial and engaged in municipal Truth and Reconciliation work. * Ethnography as a Pastoral Practice: * Explores how ethnographic research is not just an academic tool, but an ongoing pastoral posture of deep listening, neighborliness, and presence beyond the church building walls. * Embracing Complexity, Tension & Inclusive Theology: * Love and Disability Inclusion: Shares how his coworker Garrett’s transition into using a wheelchair opened his eyes to door-frame widths, stairs, and accessibility—showing how authentic inclusion requires disruption, cost, and physical adaptation. * Curiosity over Certitude: Discusses how contextual theology complexifies easy answers, requiring leaders to stay present in local tension rather than seeking quick resolutions. Resources & Books Mentioned * Academic & Theological Context: * Lecturers & Faculty mentioned: Dr. Soong-Chan Rah, Dr. Dennis Edwards, Dr. Scot McKnight, Dr. David Fitch, Dr. Michael Gorman, Dr. Reggie Williams, and Dr. Ingrid Rivera. * Reading List (Fred Liggin): * The Psychology of Christian Nationalism: Why People Are Drawn In and How to Talk Across the Divide by Pamela Cooper-White * The Spirit and the Common Good by Daniela C. Augustine * Biographies of actors (e.g., Al Pacino, Matthew McConaughey’s Greenlights) as a lens for understanding artistic expression and underlying trauma stories. For Context is sponsored by Northern Seminary. To learn more about the Contextual Theology program (or any of the number MA, M.Div, and D.Min offerings), visit seminary.edu. * Gino Curcuruto: Following Jesus Into the Ordinary * Luke Stehr: Faith In Situ 🤝 Join the For Context Community If you enjoyed this deep dive, consider becoming a paid subscriber to help us keep providing the context behind the news. * Subscribe to the Newsletter: forcontextpod.substack.com Leave a Review: Apple Podcasts | Spotify For Context is sponsored by Northern Seminary. To learn more about the Contextual Theology program (or any of the number MA, M.Div, and D.Min offerings), visit seminary.edu. Transcript I’m Gino Curcuruto. I’m Luke Stare. And you’re listening to For Context, a podcast about Northern Seminary’s doctorate of ministry and contextual theology. For Context is brought to you by Northern Seminary. For over 113 years, Northern Seminary has been training women and men for leadership in the church. If you want to check out all of the academic offerings Northern Seminary has, including a doctoral ministry cohort in Contextual Theology, please go to seminary.edu. A new cohort for the D-Min in Contextual Theology is getting started in June of 2027. If you’re interested or would like more information on how to come study with Dr. David Fitch, Dr. Jonathan Tran, Dr. Cindy Westfall and others, Please reach out to me directly at gcurcuruto at seminary.edu. That’s G-C-U-R-C-U-R again, U-T-O at seminary.edu. And I’ll give you the information we can chat. Welcome back to For Context. This is Gino and Lucas here, along with our guest, Fred Ligon. Fred, before I introduce you or have you tell a little bit about yourself, I want to just thank you. Thank you, brother. Years later, now I’m in the I only have you to blame for that, bro. But before we go two sideways, like a Dave Fitch podcast, let’s actually talk about you. Like, who are you? What do you spend your time doing? Where are you? Yeah, no. So I live in Williamsburg, Virginia, if anybody’s familiar with that, right? Like within Jamestown, Yorktown, Williamsburg, the historic triangle and the birthplace of it all, right? That’s how it’s oftentimes presented. But live here, been here 16 years, serving in a local church and one of the pastors at Williamsburg Christian Church. I have a lovely wife and two guys that I love, Ian and Javari and my wife, Allison, and We make our home here. I serve not only within the context of that church, I’m also a founder and an executive director of a nonprofit that grew out of the work of that church that came on the back of me walking with people out of social displacement for about 25 years back when I lived a previous life as a stockbroker, which is one thing Fitch and I have in common. Yeah. And so that’s, you know, this is my home. I do a good bit of, we are a multiracial, multiethnic, economically, socioeconomically diverse congregation. And so with that comes a lot of concern. I’ve been in vocational ministry for 24 years, maybe, something like that. I don’t know. It feels like forever. In the best way possible. Bro, seriously. Yes. No, and I mean that in a good way, but I am tired. But no. And then the nonprofit work, I’ve been doing that with the nonprofits 14 years old. Our church is 65 years old. I’ve been there for 16 years. And then I teach at William & Mary Adjunct, and I teach at various other places when I need to and have to find ways to continue to help make ends meet. Yeah, that’s awesome. And then just in background, what year did you graduate from the Contextual Theology program? Do you remember? Oh, yes, I do remember because I was on the 10 year program. Like, I literally just graduated. Okay. When did you start? Ten years, bro. Ten years. To the point to where I have watched every cohort member walk stage, and I have had Fitch visit our church by way of Zoom, and he would literally say in front of the congregation, tell Ligon to get that dissertation done. I mean... So much so, Luke, that the congregation got to get like a handful of members bought me coffee mugs. One of it says, be calm and finish your dissertation. So like it was a whole thing. Ten years, brother. That’s beautiful. Well, congratulations on your decade-long achievement. That must have been the most expensive dissertation anyone’s ever written. Brother, oh my gosh. Look, if I, like, my wife should get an honorary deem in for putting up with me all this time. It’s just, yeah, 10 years, guys. That’s so good. For anyone listening who’s considering the program, 10 years is not normative. It is not. It is not. But hey, for those of you who find, oh, I don’t have the time, you got 10 years. Yeah. That’s great. We need a new promo video. They’re super gracious about it. Even though they might talk about you, which they should, they’re gracious about it. They will drag you in front of your congregation and shame you. Only if Fitch is there. Only if Fitch is there. How much contextual theology changes in 10 years? That’s amazing. There’s like a whole new program in some ways. Bro, it’s crazy. And not only that... Yes, that’s what I mean. With my ethnographic project and with communal discernment and the way things work, you’re just constantly discerning and trying to live from this place of presence. Your community’s changing. And in my case, sure, it’ll change a little bit in four to six years, but you can kind of go on the thread like most of my cohort members did. But because I decided to run the marathon for the Contextual Theology Director, you know. Look, here’s the sobering part. It has taken me three presidential administrations to figure my doctorate. You can frame this however you want. A generation, administrations. I like to frame it in perseverance and intellectual honesty. Those are the words that I see. I’ll receive that. I’ll receive. We’ll call it perseverance. I’m completely good with that. No, but in all sincerity, a lot had changed. So if you can remember back then, Fred, what were some of the courses that you enjoyed or maybe had an impact on you? Well, they would give you three terms ago. Absolutely. They give you a VHS recorder and you would watch it on your VCR. And no, it was mail-in correspondence only. No, it was on a Laserdisc. Yeah. I’m sorry, podcast. We’ll get there. We’ll get there. We’re going to do it. So, no, it was, I mean, when you say a lot has changed, really, this is a benefit of contextual theology. And the benefit of the program is the heart of the program never did change. The professors may have changed, but the professors were always different professors that I would have never gotten them in the first place. That’s why I chose Northern in the first place. Mm-hmm. Which is lifelong friendships, right? And those, you know, those men, they were cheering me on. I mean, there’s some upsi
