GOOD ON WOOD

Contemplative Trouble in an Age of Rising Fascisms

“If you are going to follow Jesus, you better look good on wood.” - Daniel Berrigan SJ The Good on Wood podcast explores the lives of dangerous disciples, holy mischief makers, contemplative activists, and ordinary radicals in hopes that their witness would inspire a new generation of Jesus followers to get up, get out, and get into some "good trouble." A production of St Stephens University & The Jim Forest Institute of Religion, Peace & Justice goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com

  1. Rev James Lawson: Still Going On w. Emily Yellin

    MAR 31

    Rev James Lawson: Still Going On w. Emily Yellin

    In this inspiring interview, Emily Yellin, acclaimed journalist and life long friend, shares her profound journey of documenting Rev James Lawson’s life, his unwavering commitment to nonviolence, and the power of love in the struggle for justice. Rev Lawson, whom Dr Martin Luther King Jr described as "the leading theorist and strategist of nonviolence in the world" was in many ways the architect of the American Freedom Movement. For over 50 years Rev Lawson resisted, agitated and loved his way through the darkness of American racism, imperialism and state violence, paving the way for thousands to follow in his footsteps. As we explore Emily Yellin’s profound new book, “Nonviolence: A Memoir of Resistance, Agitation, and Love” which she co-authored with Lawson in the year’s before his passing in 2024, we traverse Lawson’s story, spirituality, philosophy of nonviolence, and enduring influence on social justice practitioners and movements today. ABOUT EMILY YELLIN Emily Yellin is a journalist, writer, and producer. A longtime contributor to The New York Times and author of two other books, she produced a ten-part video series, 1,300 Men: Memphis Strike ‘68, for The Root. She first met Rev. Lawson when she was five, while attending elementary school in Memphis with his eldest son, John. ABOUT THE BOOK - NONVIOLENT: A MEMOIR OF RESISTANCE, AGITATION AND LOVE. “This book is a gift to be treasured, from a man who has already given so much.” Jonathan Eig (Pulitzer Prize–winning author of King: A Life) “An expansive, inspiring autobiography by a crucial figure in the Civil Rights Movement.” ​Kirkus Starred Review “Engrossing...a soul-stirring testament to the transformative power of leading with love” Publishers Weekly Starred Review Rev. Lawson was one of the most influential yet unheralded heroes of the civil rights era. He rose as a strategist, teacher, and organizer in pivotal campaigns on the national stage against racial and economic injustice. Lawson’s memoir spans 95 years, but it begins far from the spotlight in a large, working-class Ohio family. The son and grandson of Methodist ministers, he receives his license to preach before graduating from high school. Lawson goes on to serve time in prison for refusing the Korean War draft, and learns from independence movements during three years in India and Africa. He then fortifies the principles of a new American Revolution when he teaches nonviolent direct action centered in love and moral clarity to the Little Rock Nine, the Mississippi Freedom Summer volunteers, and countless others. He also becomes a leader in the 1960 Nashville sit-ins, the 1963 Birmingham campaign, the 1966 Meredith March Against Fear, and the 1968 Memphis sanitation workers’ strike. Nonviolent delivers an intimate self-portrait of Lawson as a man who recognized the inherent dignity of everyone, and challenged all forms of violence, including police brutality, enforced poverty, and what he called plantation capitalism. It shows his quest for justice continuing in Los Angeles well into the 21st century, as he helped foster a more inclusive labor movement and an enduring immigrant rights movement. Nonviolent is a riveting historical narrative from a central figure in global liberation and a testament to compelling a nation to live up to its founding ideals of liberty and justice for all. Buy the book! FOLLOW US * ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠ * @ststephensuniversity⁠ * ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠ * ⁠@steveschallert⁠ * ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠ To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca The Good on Wood Podcast is a production of St Stephen’s University & The Jim Forest Institute for Religion, Peace & Justice. Subscribe today for exclusive content. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

    1h 32m
  2. Dorothy Day: The Long Loneliness w. Martha & Kate Hennessy

    MAR 9

    Dorothy Day: The Long Loneliness w. Martha & Kate Hennessy

    In today’s episode of Good on Wood we speak with Martha & Kate Hennessy about their grandmother, Dorothy Day. Join us in this rich conversation as we delve into Dorothy’s life and witness, her spiritual evolution, the birth of the Catholic Worker Movement and her lasting impact upon the world. This episode explores her unwavering commitment to nonviolence, hospitality, and radical love, inspiring a new generation to live the works of mercy against the works of war. “We have all known the long loneliness and we have learned that the only solution is love and that love comes with community.” - Dorothy Day ABOUT MARTHA HENNESSY Martha Hennessy, seventh grandchild of Dorothy Day divides her time between the family farm in Vermont and practicing the works of mercy at Maryhouse Catholic Worker in New York City. She is 70, a retired occupational therapist, and grandmother of nine. She has been imprisoned protesting war and nuclear power/weapons, the use of drones, and the torture of prisoners in Guantanamo and US prisons. She has traveled to Russia, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Korea, and Palestine to understand the impact of United States foreign military policy and the effects on countries and families around the world. Martha travels and speaks on the topics of her Catholic faith, her grandmother Dorothy Day’s life, work in community, Catholic Social Teaching, war and peace, nuclear abolition, and peacemaking efforts in the tradition of the Catholic Worker movement. ABOUT KATE HENNESSY Kate Hennessy is a writer and the youngest of Dorothy Day’s nine grandchildren. Her work has been included in Best American Travel Writing. She is the author of Dorothy Day: The World Will Be Saved By Beauty and, in collaboration with the photographer Vivian Cherry, Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker: The Miracle of our Continuance. Kate divides her time between Ireland and Vermont. RESOURCES * Dorothy Day: Selected Writings * Catholic Worker Movement * Encyclicals on Social Justice * The Dorothy Day Guild * The Long Lullaby by Dorothy Day FOLLOW US * ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠ * @ststephensuniversity⁠ * ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠ * ⁠@steveschallert⁠ * ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠ To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca Music for this episode provided by John & David from ⁠The Brilliance⁠ and our own Steve Schallert. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

    1h 1m
  3. Adam Curle: To Tame The Hydra w. Dr Laurens van Esch

    FEB 18

    Adam Curle: To Tame The Hydra w. Dr Laurens van Esch

    In today’s episode of Good on Wood we speak with Dr Laurens van Esch, the Assistant Professor of Political Philosophy and Associate Coordinator of Reconciliation Studies at St Stephen’s University, about the radical life and profound contributions of Adam Curle, a significant figure in peace studies and Quakerism. Together we explore Curle’s influence of naming power dynamics in conflict, the integration of spirituality in activism, and the importance of awareness in peacemaking. Adam Curle’s legacy and relevance in today’s complex social landscape and his emphasis of the interconnectedness of all beings and the need to cultivate silence and internal reflection in modern activism is needed more than ever today. ABOUT DR LAURENS VAN ESCH Laurens van Esch received a Bachelor’s degree in History (2006) and Master’s degrees in History (2007) and in Philosophy (2011) from Utrecht University. In 2023, he completed his PhD in Philosophy, also at Utrecht University. In 2015, he started teaching at St. Stephen’s University, where he currently serves as Assistant Professor of Political Philosophy as well as Associate Coordinator of Reconciliation Studies. Laurens’ research and teaching interests straddle the boundary between the disciplines of cultural history and political philosophy. He loves to reflect on how the study of the past relates to the pursuit of justice in the present, and is particularly interested in the power of story, religion, and commemorative practices within emancipatory social movements. Out of the classroom, Laurens has participated in various forms of Indigenous solidarity efforts, mainly through and in partnership with Community Peacemaker Teams, Mennonite Church Canada and the German Mennonite Peace Committee. This included advocacy work in support of the Grassy Narrows First Nation (2012-2013), a 500 km ‘Honour Walk’ to honour the survivors of Residential Schools (2014), a short stint at Standing Rock (2016) and a 600 km ‘Pilgrimage for Indigenous Rights’ to Ottawa (2017). FOLLOW US ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠ @ststephensuniversity⁠ ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠ ⁠@steveschallert⁠ ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠ To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca Music for this episode provided by John & David from ⁠The Brilliance⁠ and our own Steve Schallert. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

    58 min
  4. Elizabeth McAlister: 7 Minutes to Midnight w. Frida Berrigan, Clare Grady & Jackie Allen

    11/18/2025

    Elizabeth McAlister: 7 Minutes to Midnight w. Frida Berrigan, Clare Grady & Jackie Allen

    In today’s episode of Good on Wood we speak with Frida Berrigan, Clare Grady & Jackie Allen about the profound impact of Elizabeth McAlister's life, teachings and half a century of activism. Together we reflect on personal stories, letters exchanged, and the significance of Liz's activism within the Catholic Worker Movement and the Plowshares Movement. They discuss her early life, the challenges she faced, and the importance of community and spirituality in her resistance to the Vietnam War and Nuclear Weapons. The dialogue emphasizes the interconnectedness of personal experiences and political activism, highlighting Liz's legacy as a symbol of light and hope for the world.  About Frida Berrigan  Frida Berrigan lives in New London, CT with her husband and three kids. She is an urban farmer and community activist, organizing around affordable home ownership with the Southeastern Connecticut Community Land Trust, and against the ever stretching shadow of militarism with the Connecticut Committee on Nuclear Prohibition. She serves on the board of Kirkridge Retreat and Study Center in PA and organizes locally with the People’s Budget Coalition. She writes periodically for WagingNonviolence, TomDispatch.Com and In These Times, and is the author of the 2015 book “It Runs In The Family: On Being Raised By Radicals And Growing Into Rebellious Motherhood” (OR Books). Last year, she authored Our Fast Matters, a booklet of 40 Lenten reflections for Pax Christi USA.  About Clare Grady  Clare Grady is an American peace activist and a member of the Catholic Worker and the Plowshares movements. She advocated against use of cruise missiles for first-strike capability in the 1983 Griffiss Plowshares action. In 2003, she and three others made up The Saint Patrick's Day Four, who conducted a protest action at a military recruiting centre in Lansing, New York against the impending Iraq War. She participated in the Kings Bay Plowshares action on April 4, 2018, which resulted in a conviction and sentence of one year and a day. A mother and grandmother, Clare spent two decades working at Loaves & Fishes, an Ithaca-based kitchen which provides free meals, hospitality, companionship and advocates for those in need.  About Jackie Allen Jackie Allen Doucot is a life long Plowshares activist, artist, Water Protector, Catholic Worker, Spiritual Companion and a member of the Atlantic Life Community. She can be reached at - hartfordcatholicworker.org RESOURCES: The Berrigan - McAlister Archives (DePaul University) Nuclear Weapons Ruined My Life by. Frida Berrigan  Frida’s Book - “It Runs in the Family” Hit & Stay Documentary FOLLOW US @goodonwood.podcast @ststephensuniversity @jfi_ssu @steveschallert @jarrodmckenna To learn more about St Stephen's University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca Music for this episode provided by John & David from The Brilliance,  and our own Steve Schallert This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

    1h 27m
  5. Steve Biko: Crucified Among the Crossbearers w. Dr Itumeleng Mosala & Nkosi Gola

    11/01/2025

    Steve Biko: Crucified Among the Crossbearers w. Dr Itumeleng Mosala & Nkosi Gola

    In today’s episode of Good on Wood we speak with the TOWER of Black Theology in South Africa, Prof. Itumeleng Mosala and the Director of Urban African Solidarity at Iziko Lamaqabane, Nkosi Gola about the life and legacy of Steven Bantu Biko. The conversation delves deep into the profound impact of Black Consciousness and Black Theology on the struggle for liberation in South Africa, particularly through the lens of Biko's life and work. Together we reflect on Biko's spirituality, his role in student movements, and the impact of his death on the political landscape. We also address the misrepresentation of Biko in popular culture and emphasize the importance of understanding his contributions to human dignity and revolutionary politics.  About Dr. Itumeleng Mosala  Prof Mosala is one of the most outstanding South African academics and public intellectuals in the country. His outstanding influence in the academic and public domains has distinguished him as a significant contributor to the academic field of theology (especially Old Testament Studies), tertiary education, politics and public life. Prof Mosala’s career as a lecturer in Theology stems from his service as a minister in the Methodist Church (1972 to 1977). Thereafter, he taught Theology and Biblical Hermeneutics at some of the finest universities in the world over a period of 15 years (1980 to 1995). Between 1980 to 1982, he taught Biblical Studies, Theology of Liberation, African Traditional Religions and Hebrew at the University of Botswana. From 1983 to 1994, he had tenure at the University of Cape Town, where he held the positions of lecturer, senior lecturer, associate professor, professor and head of department, teaching Black Theology, African Religion and Biblical Studies. Between 1991 and 1993, he was a visiting lecturer at Wesley House College at the University of Cambridge (UK).  Together with other great black leaders and theologians, Prof Mosala established South African Black Theology. In this regard, his book Biblical Hermeneutics and Black Theology in South Africa (1987) remains one of the definitive statements of South African Black Theology. His career in the public service started as a Chief Director for Higher Education in the National Department of Education during the presidency of Nelson Mandela, 1995 to 1998. After a stint as Vice Chancellor and Principal at the Technikon North West, 1998 to 2003, he returned to the public service as the Director-General for the National Department of Arts and Culture. The President of the Republic, Cyril M. Ramaphosa, appointed Prof. Itumeleng Mosala a Commissioner of the Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers on 15 November 2019. He holds a Doctorate in Philosophy from the University of Cape Town, M.A from University of Manchester, UK, and an MBA from The Open University, UK. About Nkosi Gola Comrade Gola serves as the Director of Urban African Solidarity, Black Church & Black Theology Engagement, and Programs Manager for Iziko Lamaqabane. Iziko Lamaqabane is on a pilgrimage to heal colonial wounds, disrupt systemic violence, and cultivate faith formed by and expressed in liberative praxis. By working in relational solidarity with urban peace and justice practitioners throughout Africa, Iziko serves those active at the site of struggle by facilitating spaces of retreat, exchange and collective learning grounded at the intersection of anabaptism, black liberation theology & critical consciousness. FOLLOW US ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠ @ststephensuniversity⁠ ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠ ⁠@steveschallert⁠ ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠ To learn more about St Stephen's University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca Music for this episode provided by John & David from ⁠The Brilliance⁠, Playing for Change, and our own Steve Schallert This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

    1h 24m
  6. Jim Forest (Part 2) - Blessed Are The Peacemakers w. Robert Ellsberg, Nancy Forest & Dr Andrew Klager

    10/02/2025

    Jim Forest (Part 2) - Blessed Are The Peacemakers w. Robert Ellsberg, Nancy Forest & Dr Andrew Klager

    In today's episode of Good on Wood (*part two of two) we continue our conversation with Robert Ellsberg & Nancy Forest about the life and legacy of Jim Forest, lifelong peace activist, contemplative and prolific writer. We also spend some time in dialog with Dr Andrew Klager from the Jim Forest Institute for Religion, Peace & Justice, exploring the significant impact Jim had on his life and the the ways in which JFI continues Jim’s work by training a new generation of peacebuilding.  About Robert Ellsberg Robert Ellsberg is the editor-in-chief and publisher of Orbis Books, where he has worked for 38 years. His friendship with Jim Forest endured for fifty years, including his work editing twelve of Jim's books for Orbis. In his youth, he served (like Jim) as managing editor of The Catholic Worker, and went on to edit six volumes of Dorothy Day's writings, including her diaries and letters. He has also written many books on saints and moral witnesses, including All Saints: Daily Reflections on Saints, Prophets and Witnesses for Our Time and Blessed Among Us (drawn from his daily contributions to Give Us This Day.  About Nancy Forest  Nancy Forest is a Dutch-English literary translator living in Alkmaar, the Netherlands. She and Jim Forest were married in 1982, although their friendship started in 1974 when they were both working at the Fellowship of Reconciliation in Nyack, New York. In 1989 they became partners in a business they called Forest-Flier Editorial Services, but their partnership extended far beyond that and included raising children, prayer, reading books and poetry together, editing each other’s work, travel, and trying to make sense of it all. In 2004 Jim was diagnosed with end-stage renal failure and began kidney dialysis. In 2007 Nancy donated a kidney to him. As Jim wrote in his dedication to Nancy in his last book, Eyes of Compassion: Learning from Thich Nhat Hanh, they were “collaborators in just about everything.” jimandnancyforest.com About Andrew Phillip Klager Dr. Andrew Phillip Klager is the Provost & Vice-Chancellor of St. Stephen's University; founding Director of The Jim Forest Institute for Religion, Peace & Justice; and Professor of Religion and Peace Studies. He lives in Yarrow, British Columbia with his wife of 22+ years and three children, with another who has already flown the coop and lives nearby in Aldergrove, and is an avid Red Sox fan, loves to read, and has a deep appreciation for art, poetry, and music, especially as they intersect with theology and peacebuilding. Andrew earned a PhD in Religious Studies and History from the University of Glasgow focusing on Anabaptist-Mennonite history and theology including the 16th-century Anabaptist peace tradition(s) and has completed continuing studies in Interfaith Conflict Resolution and Conflict Analysis from the United States Institute of Peace. ADDITIONAL RESOURCES  Nancy’s obituary for Jim: https://incommunion.org/2023/04/09/no-borders-remembering-jim-by-nancy-forest/ Robert’s obituary for Jim in the National Catholic Reporter: https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/author-jim-forest-chronicler-giants-day-and-berrigan-strengthened-many Orbis Books Jim Forest Page: https://orbisbooks.com/search?q=Jim+Forest&options%5Bprefix%5D=last Robert’s reflection on his lifelong friendship with Jim:  https://incommunion.org/2023/05/03/jim-forest-a-pilgrimage-of-friendship-by-robert-ellsberg/ Jim's Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/ FOLLOW US ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠ @ststephensuniversity⁠ ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠ ⁠@steveschallert⁠ ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠ To learn more about St Stephen's University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca Music for this episode provided by John & David from ⁠The Brilliance⁠ & our own Steve Schallert This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

    1h 8m
  7. Jim Forest (Part 1) - Writing Straight With Crooked Lines w. Robert Ellsberg & Nancy Forest

    09/06/2025

    Jim Forest (Part 1) - Writing Straight With Crooked Lines w. Robert Ellsberg & Nancy Forest

    In today's episode of Good on Wood (*part one of two) we speak to Robert Ellsberg & Nancy Forest about the life and legacy of Jim Forest, lifelong peace activist, contemplative and prolific writer. Our conversation weaves through his early years, his conversion to Catholicism and later to Russian Orthodoxy, his formative relationships with Thomas Merton, Dorothy Day, and Dan Berrigan and his participation in the Milwaukee 14 plowshares action for which he spent 13 months in prison. We also discuss Jim’s inner life and his struggle for meaning amid the movement.   About Robert Ellsberg Robert Ellsberg is the editor-in-chief and publisher of Orbis Books, where he has worked for 38 years. His friendship with Jim Forest endured for fifty years, including his work editing twelve of Jim's books for Orbis. In his youth, he served (like Jim) as managing editor of The Catholic Worker, and went on to edit six volumes of Dorothy Day's writings, including her diaries and letters. He has also written many books on saints and moral witnesses, including All Saints: Daily Reflections on Saints, Prophets and Witnesses for Our Time and Blessed Among Us (drawn from his daily contributions to Give Us This Day.  About Nancy Forest  Nancy Forest is a Dutch-English literary translator living in Alkmaar, the Netherlands. She and Jim Forest were married in 1982, although their friendship started in 1974 when they were both working at the Fellowship of Reconciliation in Nyack, New York. In 1989 they became partners in a business they called Forest-Flier Editorial Services, but their partnership extended far beyond that and included raising children, prayer, reading books and poetry together, editing each other’s work, travel, and trying to make sense of it all. In 2004 Jim was diagnosed with end-stage renal failure and began kidney dialysis. In 2007 Nancy donated a kidney to him. As Jim wrote in his dedication to Nancy in his last book, Eyes of Compassion: Learning from Thich Nhat Hanh, they were “collaborators in just about everything.” Nancy’s most recently translated books include The Burgundians: A Vanished Empire by Bart Van Loo, and several children’s books: the Popcorn Bob series by Maranke Rinck, Mishka by Edward van de Vendel and Anoush Elman, and My Presentation Today is About the Anaconda by Bibi Dumon. Mishka is a story about a family of refugees, and Anaconda is a book by animals, about animals. Both these books received starred reviews from Kirkus, Publishers Weekly, and Booklist. jimandnancyforest.com ADDITIONAL RESOURCES  Nancy’s obituary for Jim: https://incommunion.org/2023/04/09/no-borders-remembering-jim-by-nancy-forest/ Robert’s obituary for Jim in the National Catholic Reporter: https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/author-jim-forest-chronicler-giants-day-and-berrigan-strengthened-many Orbis Books Jim Forest Page: https://orbisbooks.com/search?q=Jim+Forest&options%5Bprefix%5D=last Robert’s reflection on his lifelong friendship with Jim:  https://incommunion.org/2023/05/03/jim-forest-a-pilgrimage-of-friendship-by-robert-ellsberg/ Jim's Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/ FOLLOW US ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠ @ststephensuniversity⁠ ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠ ⁠@steveschallert⁠ ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠ To learn more about St Stephen's University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca Music for this episode provided by John & David from ⁠The Brilliance⁠ & our own Steve Schallert This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

    53 min
5
out of 5
16 Ratings

About

“If you are going to follow Jesus, you better look good on wood.” - Daniel Berrigan SJ The Good on Wood podcast explores the lives of dangerous disciples, holy mischief makers, contemplative activists, and ordinary radicals in hopes that their witness would inspire a new generation of Jesus followers to get up, get out, and get into some "good trouble." A production of St Stephens University & The Jim Forest Institute of Religion, Peace & Justice goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com

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