HeroInside - the first Ingredient Branding podcast

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Welcome to HeroInside, the first and only Ingredient Branding podcast, hosted by Tomas Vucurevic. With over 30,000 hours of experience as the global Ingredient Branding Specialist, Tomas has been instrumental in guiding suppliers and manufacturers to get more value out of their innovation by transforming from the ZERO position of a supplier into the HERO position of an Ingredient Brand. Join us as we delve into the captivating stories and insights from the visionaries and pioneers. Discover their journey to success and the invaluable lessons they've gained along the way.

  1. NOV 28

    #14 Mohamad Midani (VALORIZEN): Branding the no man’s land of bio-based materials

    In this episode of the HeroInside Ingredient Branding Podcast, we welcome Dr. Mohamad Midani, a leading voice in natural fibers, bio-based materials, and the emerging bioeconomy in the Arab world. Together with Tomas, he explores why shifting away from fossil-based materials is, in his words, “a matter of human survival,” and what it really takes to build value chains, not just supply chains, around bio-based innovation. Mohamad shares his personal journey from a textile family to fiber science, explains why bio-based materials lag behind synthetics in both scale and branding, and outlines how Ingredient Branding can unlock visibility and fair value for innovators, especially in regions like the Middle East and North Africa. He also introduces VALORIZEN’s three platforms, including PalmFil®, PalmPeat, and NOUKK, and discusses why branding should be treated seriously. Enjoy the episode and make sure to subscribe to HeroInside so you don’t miss the next one. We’d love to hear your thoughts, so feel free to comment, share, and leave a rating. Themes & Timestamps: 02:34 – What drives Mohamad’s passion for bio-based fibers 05:16 – Biggest obstacles to moving away from fossil-based materials 07:20 – Price gaps, deep-tech costs & consumer willingness to pay 08:42 – Ingredient Brand landscape for bio-based materials 12:08 – Who “owns” natural fibers & can they be Ingredient Brands? 13:10 – Bio-based innovation & Ingredient Branding in Middle East and North Africa 17:07 – Why branding is undervalued & the mindset shift needed 20:14 – VALORIZEN’s mission & three technology platforms (PalmFil®, PalmPeat, Noukk) 26:41 – When to start building an ingredient brand ________________________________________ Keep following the journey of the guest: VALORIZEN WebsiteVALORIZEN LinkedInMohamad Midani on LinkedIn________________________________________ Subscribe Elsewhere YouTubeApple PodcastsCastbox________________________________________ Questions, Collaborations, and Sponsorships If you have any questions or ideas, reach out! We're also open to collaborations and sponsorships. Want to be featured on HeroInside? Contact us through podcast@braindery.com, and we'll get back to you. ________________________________________ BRAINDERY is the education and community platform of BRAIND®. It offers tools like the first Ingredient Branding MasterClass and the HeroInside podcast to support the Ingredient Branding community. ________________________________________ About the Host Tomas Vucurevic is the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND® and one of the leading global experts in Ingredient Branding. Tomas has over 40,000 hours of experience as a global Ingredient Branding expert. Half of his career was as Global Brand Manager for Gore-Tex. The other half was as the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND, a brand strategy consultancy focused exclusively on Ingredient Branding. He has guided more than 70 projects helping companies to get more value out of their innovations by transforming from the ZERO position as a supplier into the HERO position as an Ingredient Brand that consumers seek. ⁠⁠⁠Follow Tomas on LinkedIn⁠⁠

    36 min

  2. OCT 27

    #13 Mikael Eydt (Beyond Leather): Taking the Leap - from apple waste to next-gen leather alternative

    In this episode of the HeroInside Ingredient Branding Podcast, we welcome Mikael Eydt, co-founder of Beyond Leather, the company behind Leap - a next-generation material made from apple waste. We explore how Leap grew from a university experiment into a recognized Ingredient Brand, what it really takes to integrate a new material into existing manufacturing, and how thoughtful partnerships (like the iconic Danish furniture brand TAKT) can accelerate market adoption. Mikael shares candid lessons on pricing, scalability, transparency, and why he avoids the “vegan leather” label in favor of building a distinct category for next-gen materials. This episode is essential for innovators, material founders, and anyone interested in how purpose-driven materials become credible ingredient brands. Themes & Timestamps: 02:11 – Where Leap is today 03:06 – Origin story: from apple waste to a material brand 05:26 – Timeline & surprises: speed, detours, and what he’d do differently 07:03 – Breakthrough with TAKT: why the right partner matters 09:18 – Beyond a capsule: portfolio-wide adoption vs PR stunts 11:01 – Integrating Leap into existing supply chains (Weishin, scale, fit) 15:23 – Terminology: should non-animal materials be called “leather”? 18:04 – Animal welfare & broader sustainability lens 20:09 – Bio-content, performance, price: coexistence over conflict 23:03 – Market reality: funding shifts, demand signals, and staying focused 26:01 – What’s next for Leap 27:46 – Founder challenge: ingredient brand vs big brand “competition” ________________________________________ Keep following the journey of the guest Leap WebsiteBeyond Leather LinkedInMikael Eydt on LinkedIn________________________________________ Subscribe Elsewhere YouTubeApple PodcastsCastbox________________________________________ Questions, Collaborations, and Sponsorships If you have any questions or ideas, reach out! We're also open to collaborations and sponsorships. Want to be featured on HeroInside? Contact us through podcast@braindery.com, and we'll get back to you. ________________________________________ BRAINDERY is the education and community platform of BRAIND®. It offers tools like the first Ingredient Branding MasterClass and the HeroInside podcast to support the Ingredient Branding community. ________________________________________ About the Host Tomas Vucurevic is the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND® and one of the leading global experts in Ingredient Branding. Tomas has over 40,000 hours of experience as a global Ingredient Branding expert. Half of his career was as Global Brand Manager for Gore-Tex. The other half was as the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND, a brand strategy consultancy focused exclusively on Ingredient Branding. He has guided more than 70 projects helping companies to get more value out of their innovations by transforming from the ZERO position as a supplier into the HERO position as an Ingredient Brand that consumers seek. ⁠⁠⁠Follow Tomas on LinkedIn⁠⁠

    36 min

  3. APR 8

    #12 Joachim Fiedler (FIDLOCK): From opera to innovation - a cellist's journey to founding FIDLOCK

    In this episode of the HeroInside Ingredient Branding Podcast, we welcome Joachim Fiedler, the ingenious founder of FIDLOCK. This conversation dives into how Joachim, originally a professional musician, turned his need for a practical solution into a global business known for its innovative magnetic fastening systems. Joachim shares his journey from the orchestra to the business world, the evolution of FIDLOCK’s product lines, breakthroughs, handling patents, and navigating innovation challenges. This episode is essential for entrepreneurs, innovators, and anyone interested in how creative solutions can evolve into influential brands shaping various industries. Themes & Timestamps: 02:01 – The origin of the magnetic bow holder 06:13 – Maintaining design DNA amidst customization 08:20 – Nike collaboration and brand impact 11:54 – Protecting innovations through patent strategy, China market insights 18:03 – Selling end-products under the same name as the Ingredient Brand 20:43 – FIDLOCK ready 23:45 – Adding new products and new value proposition 25:43 – Venturing into new industries 27:10 – Closing thoughts and guest recommendations ________________________________________ Keep following the journey of the guest • FIDLOCK Website • FIDLOCK LinkedIn • Joachim Fiedler on LinkedIn ________________________________________ Subscribe Elsewhere YouTube Apple Podcasts Castbox ________________________________________ Questions, Collaborations, and Sponsorships If you have any questions or ideas, reach out! We're also open to collaborations and sponsorships. Want to be featured on HeroInside? Contact us through podcast@braindery.com, and we'll get back to you. ________________________________________ BRAINDERY is the education and community platform of BRAIND®. It offers tools like the first Ingredient Branding MasterClass and the HeroInside podcast to support the Ingredient Branding community. ________________________________________ About the Host Tomas Vucurevic is the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND® and one of the leading global experts in Ingredient Branding. Tomas has over 40,000 hours of experience as a global Ingredient Branding expert. Half of his career was as Global Brand Manager for Gore-Tex. The other half was as the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND, a brand strategy consultancy focused exclusively on Ingredient Branding. He has guided more than 70 projects helping companies to get more value out of their innovations by transforming from the ZERO position as a supplier into the HERO position as an Ingredient Brand that consumers seek. ⁠⁠⁠Follow Tomas on LinkedIn⁠⁠

    32 min

  4. MAR 4

    #11 Magnus Granhed (RECCO): Outdoor safety for all - 40 years of RECCO Rescue Systems

    In this episode of the HeroInside Ingredient Branding Podcast, we welcome Magnus Granhed, founder of RECCO Rescue Systems, the pioneering Ingredient Brand in search and rescue technology. This conversation uncovers how a tragic avalanche accident led Granhed to develop a breakthrough radar system now used by nearly 1,000 ski resorts and mountain rescue organizations worldwide. Magnus shares the journey of building RECCO into an industry standard, collaborating with leading outdoor brands, and expanding beyond winter sports into year-round rescue applications. He also emphasizes the power of collaboration, industry partnerships, and the story of collaboratively crafting their powerful brand promise: Be Searchable. This episode is a must-listen for Ingredient Brand experts, brand managers, entrepreneurs, and innovators looking to understand how strategic branding and real-world impact go hand in hand.   Themes and Timestamps: 01:04 – Introducing Magnus Granhed and the RECCO story 03:27 – How a tragic avalanche inspired a breakthroughinnovation 05:28  – Developmentof RECCO’s technology 06:29 – Inventing something completely new alongside techadvancements 07:30 – First successful RECCO rescue 08:46 – Air Zermatt and Degré 7 as first partnerships 10:16 – The role of collaborative development inpartnerships in industry adoption 10:35 – Unknowingly using Ingredient Branding model 11:36 – Behind the Be Searchable mission statement 13:37 – Scaling and maintaining a global network 15:21 – From winter rescue to all-year-round rescue system 18:01 – Direct-to-consumer business 19:37 –  RECCO’s futureinnovation 21:13 – Magnus’ views on optimism and entrepreneurship ________________________________________ Keep following the journey of our guests RECCO Website RECCO LinkedIn________________________________________ Subscribe Elsewhere YouTube Apple Podcasts Castbox ________________________________________ Questions, Collaborations, and Sponsorships If you have any questions or ideas, reach out! We're also open to collaborations and sponsorships. Want to be featured on HeroInside? Contact us through podcast@braindery.com, and we'll get back to you. ________________________________________ BRAINDERY is the education and community platform of BRAIND®. It offers tools like the first Ingredient Branding MasterClass and the HeroInside podcast to support the Ingredient Branding community. ________________________________________ About the Host Tomas Vucurevic is the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND® and one of the leading global experts in Ingredient Branding. Tomas has over 40,000 hours of experience as a global Ingredient Branding expert. Half of his career was as Global Brand Manager for Gore-Tex. The other half was as the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND, a brand strategy consultancy focused exclusively on Ingredient Branding. He has guided more than 70 projects helping companies to get more value out of their innovations by transforming from the ZERO position as a supplier into the HERO position as an Ingredient Brand that consumers seek. ⁠⁠⁠Follow Tomas on LinkedIn⁠⁠

    25 min

  5. JAN 28

    #10 Marcus Hoenig, Alex Yellowley (RE ZRO): Serial entrepreneurship in Ingredient Branding - from D3O to RE ZRO

    In Episode 10, we welcome Marcus Hernig and Alex Yellowly, co-founders of RE ZRO®, an Ingredient Brand that is revolutionizing impact protection with sustainable and innovative materials. This episode explores the critical factors behind their success in the sports tech industry and Ingredient Branding. Together, they provide insight into RE ZRO's rapid evolution and underscore the importance of sustainable practices and strategic partnerships in building a successful brand. From overcoming industry challenges to leading sustainability efforts, Marcus and Alex provide invaluable insights for Ingredient Brand experts, brand managers, entrepreneurs, and innovators alike. Subscribe, like, rate, and share the HeroInside Ingredient Branding podcast to learn how to create more value through innovation. After listening, share your thoughts and questions!   Themes and Timestamps:   00:57 – Introducing Marcus Hernig and Alex Yellowly 02:12 – Living and working with multiple sclerosis and motor neurone disease 06:44 – Overview of impact technologies D3O and RE ZRO 08:01 – Key takeaways from their experiences at D3O 10:23 – Evolution of Ingredient Branding 13:44 – Importance of sustainability in product development 15:53 – Rapid market entry and growth strategies 18:30 – Establishing supply chain for new materials 20:16 – The impact of strategic brand partnerships 23:35 – Achieving a cross-market pull effect for a component 26:10 – Future plans, innovation and new technologies at RE ZRO 31:40  – Guests’ Ingredient Brand challenge 33:55 – Guest recommendations ________________________________________   Keep following the journey of our guests •      Marcus Hoenig on LinkedIn •      Alex Yellowley on LinkedIn •      RE ZRO Website •      RE ZRO LinkedIn ________________________________________ Subscribe Elsewhere Spotify Apple Podcasts Castbox Youtube ________________________________________ Questions, Collaborations, and Sponsorships If you have any questions or ideas, reach out! We're also open to collaborations and sponsorships. Want to be featured on HeroInside? Contact us through podcast@braindery.com, and we'll get back to you. ________________________________________ BRAINDERY is the education and community platform of BRAIND®. It offers tools like the first Ingredient Branding MasterClass and the HeroInside podcast to support the Ingredient Branding community. ________________________________________ About the Host Tomas Vucurevic is the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND® and one of the leading global experts in Ingredient Branding. Tomas has over 40,000 hours of experience as a global Ingredient Branding expert. Half of his career was as Global Brand Manager for Gore-Tex. The other half was as the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND, a brand strategy consultancy focused exclusively on Ingredient Branding. He has guided more than 70 projects helping companies to get more value out of their innovations by transforming from the ZERO position as a supplier into the HERO position as an Ingredient Brand that consumers seek. ⁠⁠⁠Follow Tomas on LinkedIn⁠⁠

    38 min

  6. 12/02/2024

    #9 Florian Miguet (Clim8): Heating up innovation - how Clim8 is creating wearable tech

    The guest of Episode 9 is Florian Miguet, CEO and co-founder of Clim8, a pioneering Ingredient Brand in smart wearable technology. This episode delves into the essential factors behind success in wearable technology and Ingredient Branding. Florian highlights the significance of a seamless user experience, ensuring technology integrates effortlessly into daily life. He shares firsthand insights on building a business with persistence and navigating the challenging "valley of death" between prototyping and commercialization—a journey that demands adaptability, collaboration, hiring the right talent, embracing risk, flexibility, and precise timing. From tackling challenges to driving innovation and leading the way with new tools for transparency and comfort, Florian offers invaluable lessons for Ingredient Brand experts, brand managers, entrepreneurs, and innovators alike. ________________________________________ Subscribe, Like, Rate, and Share the HeroInside Ingredient Branding Podcast to Learn How to Create More Value Through Innovation. After listening, share your thoughts and questions! ________________________________________ Themes and Timestamps 02:45 – Florian’s origin story 04:49 – How Clim8 technology works 06:14 – Prioritizing user experience and technical difficulties 09:15 – First brand partnership with Odlo and Ingredient Branding’s role 12:07 – Success in the US vs. EU markets 15:00 – Balancing growth and innovation 16:32 – The importance of the team 18:01 – Navigating the 'valley of death,’ learning from other industries and partners 22:57 – Tsunami of sustainability regulations and legislations 26:40 – Introducing DIGITAG 28:39 – What’s next for Clim8? 31:22 – Ingredient branding challenge 33:52 – Guest recommendation ________________________________________ Enjoy and subscribe to keep up with new episodes! ________________________________________ Keep Following the Journey of Our Guests Florian Miguet on LinkedIn Clim8 Website DIGITAG Website Clim8 LinkedIn ________________________________________ Subscribe Elsewhere ⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Google Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Castbox⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ________________________________________ Questions, Collaborations, and Sponsorships If you have any questions or ideas, reach out! We're also open to collaborations and sponsorships. Want to be featured on HeroInside? Contact us through podcast@braindery.com, and we'll get back to you. ________________________________________ ⁠⁠⁠⁠BRAIND website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The BRAINDERY⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ BRAINDERY is the education and community platform of BRAIND®. It offers tools like the first Ingredient Branding MasterClass and the HeroInside podcast to support the Ingredient Branding community. ________________________________________ About the Host Tomas Vucurevic is the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND® and one of the leading global experts in Ingredient Branding. Tomas has over 40,000 hours of experience as a global Ingredient Branding expert. Half of his career was as Global Brand Manager for Gore-Tex. The other half was as the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND, a brand strategy consultancy focused exclusively on Ingredient Branding. He has guided more than 70 projects helping companies to get more value out of their innovations by transforming from the ZERO position as a supplier into the HERO position as an Ingredient Brand that consumers seek. ⁠⁠⁠Follow Tomas on LinkedIn⁠⁠

    39 min

  7. 10/23/2024

    #8 Prof. Dr. med. Alexander Muacevic (ERC Munich): Ingredient Branding in medicine - high precision tumor treatment with advanced radiosurgery

    Tomas Vucurevic sits down with Professor Dr. Alexander Muacevic, Director of the European Radiosurgery Center Munich (ERCM), to explore the pioneering world of advanced radiosurgery. Professor Muacevic shares how ERCM has become a global leader in high-precision, non-invasive tumor treatments, utilizing technologies like Cyberknife and ZAP-X. Throughout the conversation, they discuss the challenges of rebranding a technology-based medical center, integrating AI and robotics into patient care, working with patients holistically, and how ERCM’s holistic approach offers much more than just cutting-edge technology. Key topics include ERCM’s role as a promoter of medical technologies, the center's unique patient experience design, and its journey to becoming a leading reference for modern radiosurgical treatments. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in medtech, healthcare innovation, and the intersection of branding and technology. ________________________________________ Subscribe, Like, Rate, and Share the HeroInside Ingredient Branding Podcast to Learn How to Create More Value Through Innovation. After listening, share your thoughts and questions! ________________________________________ Themes and Timestamps 00:00 - Introduction to the episode and guest 02:34 - What is ERCM and how does radiosurgery differ from traditional treatments? 05:27 - The challenge of defining a new medical field 06:22 - Rebranding ERCM and integrating new technology 10:20 - What makes ERCM different from other Cyberknife centers? 15:55 - Importance of using branded technologies and ERCM’s holistic approach to patient care 18:35 - Designing a holistic patient experience 23:08 - How has rebranding and Ingredient Branding influenced ERCM’s growth? 25:53 - Relationship with the manufacturers 27:41 - Future technologies and AI in radiosurgery 32:29 - The challenges of raising awareness in the medical field 36:07 – Guest recommendation ________________________________________ Enjoy and subscribe to keep up with new episodes! ________________________________________ Keep Following the Journey of Our Guests ERC Munich website⁠⁠ Alexander Muacevic on LinkedIn ________________________________________ Subscribe Elsewhere ⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Google Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Castbox⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ________________________________________ Questions, Collaborations, and Sponsorships If you have any questions or ideas, reach out! We're also open to collaborations and sponsorships. Want to be featured on HeroInside? Contact us, and we'll get back to you. ________________________________________ ⁠⁠⁠⁠BRAIND website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The BRAINDERY⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ BRAINDERY is the education and community platform of BRAIND®. It offers tools like the first Ingredient Branding MasterClass and the HeroInside podcast to support the Ingredient Branding community. ________________________________________ About the Host Tomas Vucurevic is the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND® and one of the leading global experts in Ingredient Branding. Tomas has over 40,000 hours of experience as a global Ingredient Branding expert. Half of his career was as Global Brand Manager for Gore-Tex. The other half was as the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND, a brand strategy consultancy focused exclusively on Ingredient Branding. He has guided more than 70 projects helping companies to get more value out of their innovations by transforming from the ZERO position as a supplier into the HERO position as an Ingredient Brand that consumers seek. ⁠⁠⁠Follow Tomas on LinkedIn⁠⁠

    40 min

  8. 09/26/2024

    #7 Liz Bui, Jeff Martin (Yulex): Harnessing Nature - The Yulex Mission to Replace Petroleum-Based Products

    In this episode, BRAIND Founder Tomas Vucurevic sits down with Liz Bui, CEO of Yulex LLC, and Jeff Martin, Founder of Yulex, to discuss their game-changing approach to sustainability by creating high-performance, plant-based alternatives to synthetic materials like neoprene and elastane, while actively supporting smallholder farmers in Vietnam and Thailand. Liz and Jeff share their journey of building a transparent, ethical supply chain and how they’re helping world-known brands, such as Patagonia, Finisterre, and Decathlon, transition to more sustainable solutions. ________________________________________ Subscribe, Like, Rate, and Share the HeroInside Ingredient Branding Podcast to Learn How to Create More Value Through Innovation. After listening, share your thoughts and questions! ________________________________________ Themes and Timestamps 02:57 – Founding Story: The vision behind Yulex’s plant-based alternatives 04:48 – The Yulex Mission and Sustainability 06:19 – Sustainability in Action: On working with smallholder farmers and building ethical supply chains 10:47 – Ingredient Branding Journey: How Patagonia’s partnership helped establish Yulex as a leading brand 13:43 – Balancing Premium and Mass Market Brands: Collaborating with Patagonia, Decathlon, and Finisterre 18:00 – YULEX 2.0 Supply Chain Launch: Building a fully traceable, deforestation-free supply chain 21:43 – The Future of Sustainable Products: Introduction of elastane alternative, YULASTIC 23:41 – Ingredient Branding Challenge: The complexities of multi-Ingredient Branding collaborations 29:13 – Guest Recommendations ________________________________________ Enjoy and subscribe to keep up with new episodes! ________________________________________ Keep Following the Journey of Our Guests Dr. Liz Bui on LinkedIn Jeff Martin on LinkedIn Yulex Website Yulex LLC on LinkedIn ________________________________________ Subscribe Elsewhere YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Google Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Castbox⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ________________________________________ Questions, Collaborations, and Sponsorships If you have any questions or ideas, reach out! We're also open to collaborations and sponsorships. Want to be featured on HeroInside? Contact us, and we'll get back to you. ________________________________________ ⁠⁠⁠BRAIND website⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠The BRAINDERY⁠⁠⁠⁠ BRAINDERY is the education and community platform of BRAIND®. It offers tools like the first Ingredient Branding MasterClass and the HeroInside podcast to support the Ingredient Branding community. ________________________________________ About the Host Tomas Vucurevic is the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND® and one of the leading global experts in Ingredient Branding. Tomas has over 40,000 hours of experience as a global Ingredient Branding expert. Half of his career was as Global Brand Manager for Gore-Tex. The other half was as the Founder and Managing Director of BRAIND, a brand strategy consultancy focused exclusively on Ingredient Branding. He has guided more than 70 projects helping companies to get more value out of their innovations by transforming from the ZERO position as a supplier into the HERO position as an Ingredient Brand that consumers seek. ⁠⁠Follow Tomas on LinkedIn⁠

    35 min
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About

Welcome to HeroInside, the first and only Ingredient Branding podcast, hosted by Tomas Vucurevic. With over 30,000 hours of experience as the global Ingredient Branding Specialist, Tomas has been instrumental in guiding suppliers and manufacturers to get more value out of their innovation by transforming from the ZERO position of a supplier into the HERO position of an Ingredient Brand. Join us as we delve into the captivating stories and insights from the visionaries and pioneers. Discover their journey to success and the invaluable lessons they've gained along the way.

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