The Vermont Conversation with David Goodman

VTDigger

The Vermont Conversation is a VTDigger podcast hosted by award-winning journalist David Goodman. It features in-depth interviews about local and national topics with politicians, activists, artists, changemakers and ordinary citizens. The Vermont Conversation is also an hour-long weekly radio program that can be heard on Wednesdays at 1 p.m. on WDEV/Radio Vermont.

  1. 10h ago

    Alternative media pioneer Nat Winthrop on a half-century of covering Vermont

    Journalist Nat Winthrop has been covering Vermont for a half-century, reporting stories that have surprised, infuriated and enlightened readers. From 1978 to 1990, Winthrop was publisher of the pioneering alternative weekly the Vanguard Press, and later the Vermont Times. These publications were launching pads for many journalists and were forerunners to Seven Days, the Vermont weekly that is celebrating its 30th anniversary this year. He was also executive producer of “Freedom & Unity,” a six-part documentary film about Vermont that was led by Nora Jacobson. In 1987, he co-founded the online alternative news service AlterNet. Winthrop explained the niche filled by Vermont’s early alternative weeklies. “There's the myth of objectivity in the media,” he told me. But “the Vanguard, in particular, wore our opinions on our sleeves or on the editorial page.” The weeklies differ from newspapers with their “narrative style of storytelling, so that all of the important information isn't necessarily right up at the top of the article.” Winthrop, 74, has a new book, “On the Record,” a collection of 17 of his cover stories. The topics vary widely, from his reporting on a controversial physician at Gifford Hospital in Randolph who championed in vitro fertilization in the 1970s, to his coverage of Iranian cadets at Norwich University just after the 1979 Iranian revolution, to his stories about Bernie Sanders and ice cream icons Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield as they rose from obscurity to national fame. The book has many contemporary echoes and includes updates on what has happened with the subjects of each story. Filmmaker Jay Craven wrote in a foreword, “A newspaper in tune with its readers creates common ground and lets us know where we live in ways that are specific to ourselves, our towns, and our neighbors. Nat’s work strengthened our links to each other and helped move our state forward.” Winthrop earned a bachelor’s degree from Harvard and came to Vermont to attend Goddard College, where he received a master’s degree in media education in 1977. He lives in Montpelier.  “Print media across most of the country are a lot smaller in numbers and some say a dying breed,” conceded Vermont’s alternative media pioneer. But he pointed to VTDigger, Seven Days and Vermont Public as indications that media “are actually doing quite a bit better in Vermont than in most states.”

  2. Aug 19

    Grace Potter on how she achieved musical stardom by trespassing

    Vermont-born rock star Grace Potter releases her seventh studio album on Aug. 21. “Trespasser” is the latest offering from the four-time Grammy nominee. Potter burst onto the music scene in 2002 with Grace Potter and the Nocturnals. Since that group disbanded in 2015, Potter has gone on to tour with some of the country’s top musical acts, including the Rolling Stones, Kenny Chesney and country star Chris Stapleton, with whom she is touring this fall. Potter will bring her act to Burlington on Sept. 18 when her annual Grand Point North festival kicks off. Profits will go toward Potter’s Grand Point Foundation, a nonprofit organization dedicated to supporting the arts in Vermont. Potter, 43, divides her time between homes in the Mad River Valley of Vermont, where she grew up and attended high school, and Topanga Canyon, California. “Trespasser” was produced by her husband and frequent collaborator Eric Valentine. The two have a son together. “Trespasser” was partly inspired by a line from the Woody Guthrie song “This Land Is Your Land.” Potter sang it: “As I was walking that ribbon of highway, there was a wall that said private property, but on the other side it didn't say nothing. That side is made for you and me.” That idea of crossing boundaries “was the engine that was running all of my lyrical landscaping at that point.” The title song includes a refrain, “As I hurried home … I heard an icy refrain … bow to the master.” What did she mean? Potter said she wrote the lyrics “in an early round of rounding up immigrants, and it wasn't called ICE at the time. … Little did I know that a few years later there would really be this icy refrain.” Potter — who says she got kicked out of band at Harwood Union High School when it was discovered that she could not read music — said she feels she has been trespassing her whole career. “I will often get off stage and look at my bandmates or look at whoever is there side-stage and go: I just got away with it again, like I'm robbing a bank,” she said. “My passion and my commitment to basically all forms of art is mostly based on my fascination with how I'm able to get away with this over and over again. I don't think I've ever said that out loud.”  “If you want a scoop,” she told me, “it's just that I continue to be rewarded for something that comes extremely naturally to me, and I'm lucky enough to have been kind of cattle prodded into it by really encouraging, inspired, wonderful family members and friends and cohorts who saw what I had better than I— better than I did.”

  3. Aug 12

    ‘What can I do?’ Ami Fields-Meyer on what global dissidents can teach Americans

    As President Donald Trump intensifies his campaign of retribution against his political opponents and unleashes masked federal agents on immigrant communities, many American citizens are asking: What can I do? For answers, we can look to dissidents who have stood up to authoritarianism. “Authoritarianism is about stealing your rights and stealing your money,” said Ami Fields-Meyer, co-author with journalist Julia Angwin of “On Courage: How to Be a Dissident in an Age of Fear.” The authors spoke with over 100 dissidents in their research. These include a 73-year-old abortion escort in Virginia, young activists in Egypt who have challenged a dictator, students in Hong Kong defending democracy, and a civil rights lawyer who lost his job in the Trump administration while fighting for fair housing. Together, they offer a modern roadmap for resisting authoritarianism. Authoritarians start by targeting vulnerable groups, then extending to political opponents and the broader population. They say, “It's not me who's taking your money or your rights. This is happening because of somebody else. It's happening because of the trans people. It's happening because of the undocumented people,” Fields-Meyer told me. “The response has to be to expand the circle of who we are committed to.” Fields-Meyer has been a senior policy adviser to then-Vice President Kamala Harris, a senior fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School’s Allen Lab for Democracy Renovation and a strategist to national civil rights organizations and political candidates. His articles on democracy and public policy have appeared in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, The New York Times and other outlets. The authors share lessons from global dissidents. Fields-Meyer described how dissidents “repurposed their communities into extraordinarily powerful political forces. The dissident movement that helped bring down communism in Czechoslovakia was a group of theater actors (who) repurposed their theaters into organizing hubs. They stopped printing playbills on their printers and started printing protest leaflets. This is something that we see all over the world.” This includes Fields-Meyer’s home community of Brooklyn, where mutual aid groups formed during the Covid-19 pandemic are now using the same texting groups “to protect people from the federal agents who are waiting outside their doors.” Fields-Meyer said that strengthening community helps counter the ways that autocrats seek to divide people. “Authoritarianism is all about saying, ‘Don't believe your lying eyes. You thought that you saw Renee Good shot in the street? No, you didn't. You thought that you saw Alex Pretti shot in the street? No, you didn't,’” said Fields-Meyer. “What we learned from Soviet dissidents is that when lies abound, you can work with other people and be with other people and be emboldened to say, ‘I do see what I see.’” “We need to be able to hold hope and hopelessness at the same time,” said Fields-Meyer. “If we do, history tells us that we're going to win.”

  4. Aug 5

    ‘You have a choice on how you respond.’ Kelly Brush on thriving after a life-altering accident

    Few people have turned adversity into opportunity as dramatically as Kelly Brush. Brush was on the Middlebury College ski team when she was paralyzed in a ski racing accident in 2006. Twenty years later, Brush is a leader of a national movement to empower people with spinal cord injuries. “I'm so glad that I'm able to do that and support … thousands of other people that I don't even know and their families and create things that just feel a little bit better,” Brush told me. I asked Brush what enabled her to stay positive following her accident. “Whenever something happens in life, you have a choice on how you respond,” she replied. “Even when there's things that are really hard or really sad, you feel that, and then you make the choice to move you forward in a good direction.” Brush has mixed feelings about people calling her an inspiration. If “an understanding of who I am and what I've done creates inspiration, that's great. But not the inspiration that comes just because I exist and I'm in a wheelchair.” Brush is concerned about how people with disabilities are especially vulnerable to delays or cutbacks in health care. She has personal experience of this: she recently had to undergo major back surgery and had to seek care in an emergency room when her primary care provider couldn’t see her for several weeks. “People with disabilities have greater health care needs,” she said. “When the health care system isn't set up well, we are then paying more for those greater needs. I see it time and again with complications that come from spinal cord injuries.” Brush, who recently turned 40, is the founder and spokesperson for the Kelly Brush Foundation, which grants about $1 million per year to people with spinal cord injuries to purchase adaptive sports equipment and maintain an active lifestyle. Its best known fundraiser is the annual Kelly Brush Ride, which draws nearly 1,000 bike riders and will take place this year on Sept. 12 in Middlebury. There are also Kelly Brush Rides in Park City, Utah, and the Bay Area. Brush is especially proud of the community that she and her foundation have helped build. “When I got hurt, I didn't know anybody else with a spinal cord injury,” she said. Now her foundation connects people with spinal cord injuries with one another.  “There's something really different about being able to build community with people who are doing things similarly to you, as well as just the ability to feel seen and be seen by other people who are living a similar life to you outside of adaptive sports.” Brush lives in Charlotte with her two young daughters. She worked for 10 years as a pediatric nurse practitioner, but is taking a break from that to lead her foundation and look after her children. I asked Brush what she hopes people take away from her story. “To be excited about the fact that I've been able to live such a full life and continue to have all the same highs and lows that so many people have and I do it from my wheelchair,” she replied. “I definitely have some more struggles than others. But my life is awesome and really fun. I hope people can see that and see the beauty in life, no matter what comes up and what happens, and find and follow that.”

  5. Jul 29

    Author Chris Bohjalian on writing, activism and challenging the language of genocide

    A teen golf prodigy launches a powerful drive that kills a golf caddy at a tony New York country club. Investigations and hidden scandals soon follow. So begins best-selling Vermont author Chris Bohjalian’s spellbinding new book, “The Amateur.” His 26th novel is classic Bohjalian: a riveting tale told by a female protagonist that weaves together mystery, intrigue, romance, betrayal and secrets that had me frantically turning the page to find out what happens next. Bohjalian is among Vermont’s most beloved and prolific authors of literary and historical fiction. His work has been translated into more than 35 languages, and three of his novels — “Secrets of Eden,” “Midwives” and “Past the Bleachers” — have been made into movies. “The Flight Attendant” is an Emmy-nominated series on HBO Max. He has also written three plays. The New York Times Book Review named “The Amateur” one of “The Novels Everyone Will Be Talking About in 2026.” Bohjalian often writes from the perspective of a female protagonist. “I do it because I think a woman is more likely than a man to go on the emotional odyssey that the tale demands,” he told me. He said he considers it high praise when a reader tells him, “I thought you were a woman.” Bohjalian, who lives in Weybridge, has won numerous literary awards. He wrote the “Idyll Banter” column for the Burlington Free Press for nearly 25 years, has written for The New York Times and The Washington Post, and writes periodic essays on his Substack. He is a graduate of Amherst College. Bohjalian has also been recognized for his efforts to educate Americans about the Armenian genocide. He has family who survived the genocide, which was launched in the Ottoman Empire in 1915 and resulted in the deaths of as many as 1.2 million Armenians. He has written regularly on the topic, including his 2012 book, “The Sandcastle Girls,” which is a love story with the genocide as its backdrop. He is keenly aware that history often repeats itself. “Genocide begins with language, by demonizing the minority, by reducing them to something less than human, something like an insect, a vermin, a parasite, a germ,” he told me. “Just as the Ottoman Empire used that language about the Armenians, or the Nazis used that sort of language about the Jewish citizens of Europe, increasingly in the United States we see immigrants or people from other countries demonized in much the same way.” He cited the example of President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance “demonizing Ohio Haitian citizens, claiming that they were so animalistic they ate dogs and cats.” “I vacillate wildly between whether I believe that democracy in America is really in jeopardy or simply believing that we are in a cycle right now where there is a stupidity, a cruelty and a savagery that is cyclical, and eventually we will swing back,” he said. Bohjalian kicks off a national book tour for “The Amateur” with an event at the South Burlington Public Library on Saturday. He has another novel due out in 2028 and is at work on a play. His advice to aspiring writers?  “Write because you love it. Write in the genre you love to read. Write every day.”

  6. Jul 22

    ‘I’m sorry that this isn’t what we promised.’ Immigration attorney Jill Martin Diaz on fear and hope in Vermont’s immigrant community

    President Donald Trump’s immigration crackdown is intensifying. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents detained over 10,000 people just in the last week of June. This month, ICE agents killed two men in less than a week, including a young Columbian father in Maine who reportedly had legal status. Despite the Trump administration’s insistence that it is only arresting “the worst of the worst,” most of the people arrested by ICE have no criminal convictions. Fear is now a constant in immigrant communities. “It's like watching a slow car crash every day,” said Jill Martin Diaz, an immigration attorney and executive director of the Vermont Asylum Assistance Project. VAAP is a rapidly growing legal services and technical assistance organization for immigrants. Since becoming VAAP’s first paid staff member in January 2024, Martin Diaz now oversees a paid staff of 10, a network of 28 volunteer attorneys and over two dozen volunteer interpreters, among others. VAAP is also the hub of a newly formed network that now offers coordinated immigration legal services throughout the state. The network includes the Association of Africans Living in Vermont, the Center for Justice Reform Clinic at Vermont Law and Graduate School, Vermont Afghan Alliance, and Vermont Legal Aid.  “We've seen a really steady stream of people being arrested in Vermont,” said Martin Diaz. VAAP attorneys make weekly visits to Northwest State Correctional Facility and report encountering an average of 12 to 18 immigrants in detention. Martin Diaz warned that “rights and protections are being stripped away every day in mundane-seeming memos and orders from courts. And we're just watching the system slip between our fingers as we're trying to support Vermonters to access their needs.” Anxiety has been compounded by a Supreme Court decision that allows the Trump administration to end temporary protected status. The decision may result in the loss of legal protection for over a million immigrants who have fled war or environmental disasters in their home countries. Martin Diaz said this Supreme Court decision will impact several dozen Haitians, some of whom have lived in Vermont for decades and “find themselves now without temporary protected status, vulnerable to being arrested by ICE and prosecuted for removal proceedings, and most acutely unauthorized to work.” Martin Diaz formerly taught immigration law at Vermont Law and Graduate School, directed its Center for Justice Reform Clinic and practiced at Vermont Legal Aid, and was a lecturer in the department of social work at the University of Vermont. In 2023, Martin Diaz was named by the LGBTQ+ Bar Association as one of the 40 best LGBTQ+ lawyers under 40 and has received awards from the Vermont Bar Association and American Civil Liberties Union of Vermont.  Martin Diaz said “that for every terrifying story about ICE hurting people, killing people in the streets, the stories about unfair things happening in courts of law, there are also stories of hope, of the system working as it should, of things going well, that doesn't make the news.” The attorney and activist concluded with a message for immigrants who are fearful: “I'm just so sorry that this is happening. I'm sorry that this isn't what we promised.”

  7. Jul 15

    Some joy, some tragedy. 2 Vermont authors on the struggles of rural living

    Summer reading is often about traveling to far-away places and meeting fascinating people. But for two Vermont authors, the exotic destination for their new books is their home state. Hardwick author Brett Ann Stanciu’s latest book is “Call It Madness.” It features a young protagonist, Avah Lavoie, who journeys to a remote village in northern Vermont to salvage an old farmhouse that offers answers to mysteries about her family. The book’s title is taken from a David Budbill poem and “reflects the sorrow and stubbornness of family life,” says the author.  Stanciu told me she “wanted to write about a small Vermont village that has people who are very wealthy … people who are in the middle and people who are really scrambling in the bottom.” If her fictional village sounds suspiciously like the real town of Greensboro, there is a reason: Stanciu is the treasurer and zoning administrator for the Northeast Kingdom town. The Marlboro College graduate is the recipient of two Vermont Arts Council grants and was a 2025 nominee for the Pushcart Prize, the prestigious literary award. She is editor-at-large for Vermont Almanac. Stanciu was a guest on Vermont Conversation in 2021 to discuss her nonfiction book “Unstitched: My Journey to Understand Opioid Addiction and How People and Communities Can Heal.” For Corinth author Catherine Tudish, the title of her latest book, “A Thousand Souls,” refers to the population of the fictional village of Neptune, Vermont. The characters include a boy who travels to South Carolina to meet his father for the first and only time, a shy girl who loses her stutter when she befriends a black bear, and a beloved sheriff who breaks up a drug operation only to get arrested himself for helping undocumented workers evade immigration enforcement. Tudish is the author of three books and has taught writing and literature at George Washington University, Harvard, Dartmouth and the Bread Loaf School of English. Tudish said she is drawn to writing about Vermont because of “the qualities of observation of the people who live here, a very particular kind of sense of humor, and a great interest in people who come from away and what we're like and how we behave. We can sometimes be objects of humor, but I think that there's also a great kindness inherent in people in Vermont.” Tudish said her fictional town of Neptune is based loosely on Strafford, which is enjoying a moment of fame for its illustrious son, musician Noah Kahan. It turns out that Tudish knew Kahan as a child. Kahan “was a very interesting 3-year-old. He seemed very curious and focused and asked a lot of questions in a way that I think other 3-year-olds didn't. So I'm not surprised that he's ended up doing something sort of extraordinary.” Stanciu said a common thread between the main characters that she and Tudish write about is that “Vermont is a place of multiplicity, that people come from all kinds of walks of life, they do all kinds of different things, have many different skills, lots of different experiences, some joyous, some tragedy. But between that, there's this sense of respect for the individual for what they're doing.” “It doesn't always mean that the characters in these books are behaving well,” said Stanciu. “But they're struggling in one way or another to try to figure out their lives within this complicated network of the people around them, the village, the rural communities and the influence of the landscape.”

  8. Jul 8

    ‘How the Democrats Screwed Bernie.’ Former Sanders chief campaign strategist Tad Devine on the 2016 presidential race

    In 2016, U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., was an insurgent candidate taking on Hillary Clinton, the heavily favored pick of the Democratic establishment for the presidential primary. As Sanders barnstormed the country and brought out millions of people to hear his message, the Clinton machine’s operatives and super-PACs swung into action to stop him by any means necessary. Tad Devine was deep in the trenches of this fight. He is a veteran Democratic political consultant and was chief strategist for Sanders’ 2016 presidential campaign. Prior to that he had been a senior adviser in the presidential campaigns of Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004. Devine has written an explosive new book about the 2016 Democratic primary campaign, “How the Democrats Screwed Bernie.” His inside account comes as a new generation of populist Democrats, including New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani and Maine Senate candidate Graham Platner, is once again challenging the Democratic establishment and receiving fierce pushback from the old guard. Devine writes that “the entrenched leadership of the Democratic Party seems determined to forget the mistakes it made during the primary season of 2016.” He blames the Democratic elite for “two catastrophic defeats in the recent past and who knows how many more to come in the future.” Devine insists, “The Democratic Party must stop impeding voters from determining the outcome of primaries.” Could Bernie have beaten Donald Trump in 2016? “Donald Trump's own pollster showed up at Harvard for the post-election review, and when asked what would have happened if Sanders was the nominee, he said he would have won,” Devine told me. “He understood that those white working-class voters who fled Hillary Clinton would have gone back to Bernie Sanders.” Devine said the reason the Democratic Party is “completely out of touch with the American people” is because it participates in “a rigged system” in which the richest donors can buy elections. He said that in other countries, “if they threw money into campaigns anonymously, they would go to jail.” “We have to break from that stranglehold of money in politics and establish ourselves as a party that is willing to seek funding through people at the grassroots level.” There are two ways to fix the corrupt campaign financing system, Devine said. “One is elections, and the second is the Constitution and overriding the Supreme Court. That is the only way home right now for America.” Devine said that “overwhelming majorities of Democrats, Republicans, independents support changing the system of campaign finance.” What they need is “a visionary leader or leaders to come out and to move the nation in that direction.”  Is there any particular leader who he thinks has promise? Devine suggested Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro or California Gov. Gavin Newsom might emerge. But he noted that Barack Obama was an Illinois state senator until 2004 when he was elected a U.S. senator, and then won the presidency four years later.  “People can come up very quickly in this day of instant communication.”  When that leader emerges, he predicted, “I think politics will change in America and will give it back its soul.”

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About

The Vermont Conversation is a VTDigger podcast hosted by award-winning journalist David Goodman. It features in-depth interviews about local and national topics with politicians, activists, artists, changemakers and ordinary citizens. The Vermont Conversation is also an hour-long weekly radio program that can be heard on Wednesdays at 1 p.m. on WDEV/Radio Vermont.

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