Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

Richard Ostler

Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. I am the author of three books: “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566) “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280) The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations. Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️ I am the author of two Ensign articles: ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use. This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children. Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books. With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5 E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

  1. 15h ago

    Episode 899: Steven Mark Trier, Excommunicated Gay Former Mormon

    ** Why would I have an excommunicated gay former Mormon on the podcast? Well, I’ve learned that my excommunicated friends are usually good people—often doing the best they can with complex circumstances—children of the same Heavenly Parents and my spirit brother/sister. I learned a lot from Steven. Steven is not in the space “of burn it all down” and “everyone should leave the church”. He gives grace to me for being in the Church and I’m returning that grace. His story is powerful and helps me consider what I can do to better love and support my LGBTQ friends. When we know better, we do better. ** My friend Steven Mark Trier (age 58, adopted, excommunicated in 1992) joins us to share his story. Steven (a talented pianist, composer, and producer), takes us back to a time when there were few resources and limited understanding for gay Latter-day Saints. Steven talks about being gay and doing all he could to not be gay including service a mission “to be straight” and considering castration. Steven talks about accepting himself as God made me. Steven talks about how hard it was to leave the Mormon church—all the community that he enjoyed—and the chance to share his musical talents. Steven talks about how that was all necessary as he felt he needed to be “in-charge of his own destiny” and be authentic. Steven talks about “why would a God who made me as I am send me to hell for being me” Steven talks about navigating his relationship with a narcissist father and a supportive mother and eventually reuniting with his biological mother. Steven talks about complex mental health challenges and how he now has found stability, peace, and love in his life (including being with his parter for the last 8 years). Thank you Steven for being on the podcast. You are a survivor and a remarkable man. I wish we could have better loved and supported you as a young gay Mormon. I’m sorry for all the needless pain. You are a good man. You story give other hope. Links: Steven’s book: https://aureusmediadesign.com/excommunication/

    1h 22m

  2. 3d ago

    Episode 898: Amie Steele, LDS Mother Supporting Her Two Gay Sons

    My friend Amie Steele talks about her powerful new Substack (see show notes) sharing their journey (along with her husband Randy) to love and support their gay son Hunter, his decision to date men, and falling in love with Jake, and their wedding in 2025. Amie talks about walking this road with Hunter and her personal revelation to love and support Hunter and Jake. She talks about the beauty of their marriage and “by the fruits you shall know them”—and how this outcome brings them and the Steele family joy, peace, and love. Amie talks about her work as a high school special education teacher and the need for “Individual Education Plan” for her students—and how the Church’s one-size-fits-all approach to marriage doesn’t have a plan/place for our gay/lesbian members (unless they feel called to be celibate or in a mixed-orientation marriage)—and is super painful for their family. She also talks about how she “can’t put this on a shelf” and wait for more understanding—as Hunter needed to get on with his life—and their family needed to love/support him. Amie then talks about her son Presley who is gay and their conversation leading up to the podcast giving Amie permission to share about Presley. She talks about how much easier it is to accept that Presley is gay and know how to love and support him because of the road she has walked with Hunter. This podcast and Amie’s Substack are super powerful. If you want to learn how to better love/support the queer people in your lives (or may come into your lives), please read/share Amie’s Substack and this podcast. Thank you Amie for being on the podcast. You and Randy have a beautiful family. Your two gay sons Hunter and Presley are good men with a wonderful future. Thanks for all you are doing to help us building Zion. Links: Substack: https://amiesteele.substack.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amie.j.steele Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amie_steele_/ Episode 626: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-626-hunter-steele-gay-byu-student-and-amie-steele-supportive-lds-mother

    1h 15m

  3. May 28

    Episode 897: Greg Prince Book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church”, Episode Three

    My friend Greg Prince (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019. In this episode, Greg talks about the future—and what might be possible for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Greg talks about the process for other significant changes in our church and also shares thoughts on doctrine vs policy vs teachings. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families. Links: Greg’s Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZB

    1h 23m

  4. May 24

    Episode 896: Jeff and Michael McLean, New Book “Stay in the Room”

    My friends, Jeff McLean (same-sex marriage, nationally known performer, vocal coach, author), Michael McLean (famous LDS songwriter, composer, playwright) and Jeff’s friend Dr. Brad Reedy (Co-Founder and Chief Clinical Officer) join us to talk about their new book: “Stay in the Room: How a Gay Son and A Mormon Father Found Themselves and Each Other” In the podcast, they talk about how “Stay in the Room” tells the true story of a boy raised in Heber City, Utah, in the shadow of Mormonism and the rising AIDS crisis of the 1980s. The son of Michael McLean-Mormonism's answer to Billy Joel, Jeff sang his father's songs on stages nationwide. But behind the curtain, he struggled to reconcile his faith with his identity. After serving a Mormon mission, entering a brief marriage to his husband, and battling an addiction to crystal meth, Jeff finally found solid ground-and the courage to come home. But before healing could begin, he had to confront the two people he feared had lost him for good: his parents. Told through three voices, “Stay in the Room” is a moving, multi-perspective memoir. Jeff shares how he discovered a life where he could be fully himself and still feel the love of God. Michael recounts how the Spirit led him to stay present through his son's pain, refusing to let go. And therapist Dr. Brad Reedy offers powerful insight for families navigating the tension between faith, identity, and unconditional love. This is one of the best episodes we’ve ever recorded.. Please listen and share this episode and buy their book. Great insights on how to love and support people we love in our lives. Thank you Jeff, Michael, and Brad for being on the podcast. Links: Stay in the Room Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1969935057

    1h 33m

  5. May 22

    Episode 895: Kelsey Wells, Gay Latter-day Saint, Upcoming Same-Sex Marriage

    My friend Kelsey Well (who was on Episode 815) joins us to update her story. Kelsey (former EFY counselor and seminary teacher, active Latter-day Saint)—who broke off an engagement to a man realizing it wasn’t right which she talked about in her prior episode—talks about falling in love with Christina and their upcoming marriage. Kelsey also shares their desire to remain active members of their ward. In this episode Kelsey talks about: Her relationship with God and the Church What her relationship with her fiancé has shaped the way she sees faith, love, and her future. Navigating the pressure she sometimes feels from either side to “pick a line”—either leave the Church or deny part of herself How being an active LGBTQ Latter-day Saint looks like. What she wishes church members better understood about LGBTQ people who choose to stay active in the Church. What she says to someone who feels they have to choose between being loved by God and being fully themselves. Kelsey talks about how they plan to stay connect to the Temple that they love. Once married—and no longer having recommends—they talk about to being in the temple waiting room and doing family history. Thank you Kelsey for your courage to move forward in the path that you feel is right for you. I honor your personal revelation, will walk with you, and leave judgement to our Savior as His perfect understanding. I hope and pray you and Christina are warmly received in your ward—and you feel a deep sense of belonging as you worship. Links: Instagram: @kelswayan Episode 815: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-815-kelsey-wells-mid-20s-child-of-god-gay/id1347971725?i=1000698209691 Email: behappi208@gmail.com

    1h 6m

  6. May 19

    Episode 894: Rod Gardner, Drug Addiction (Lost Dental Practice, Excommunicated, Prison), New Book “Second Chance Again”

    In one of our bravest, raw, and most vulnerable episodes, my friend Rod Gardner (married father of 5, lives in Northern Utah, dentist, age 60) shares his story/new book called “Second Change Again: A Dentist’s Journey from Professional Success to Prison, Addiction, and Ultimate Redemption”. Rod shares how drugs became a coping mechanism to deal/escape with the anxiety/scrupulosity he experiences as a teenager. He talks about putting this all behind him for his mission and the first part of his marriage—and then how the cycle came back to escape/deal with the stress of dental school. Rod talks about how that cycle repeated itself—getting worse and worse—until almost all hope was lost. Rod talks about kneeling in prayer in the 5-person jail cell—at the end of his rope—and how that was the beginning of hope/peace which led to sustained recovery (back with his wife Jill, family, regained his dental license and practice, rebaptized). I will never forget Rod talking about praying in the jail cell (and the inmates that ended up joining him). Rod concludes the podcast talking about his love and support for his queer son Kaden and his partner—the first time they came to the home—and his how his heart was full of love, a big hug, and support for both of them. Rod talks about his mighty change of heart from his earlier years to where is his now to love all of God’s children. Super powerful podcast. I encourage everyone to listen/share this episode and read Rod’s book. If you are in a tough spot—feeling alone and losing hope—please listen and share Rod’s podcast/book. Thank you Rod for your courage to share your story. You give all of us more hope and help us better understand God’s love for each of us. You are a good man. Links: Rod’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rod.gardner.509 Rod’s IG: @ rodneyg21 Rod’s E-mail: rodneytgardner@yahoo.com

    1h 19m

  7. May 17

    Episode 893: Wilson Privado, BYU Master Graduate, RM, Queer, From El Salvador

    My friend Wilson Privado (BYU Master’s Degree in school psychology, BYU-Idaho undergrad, RM Salt Lake City Mission, Queer, Age 29) joins us to share his story. Wilson talks about pushing down his same-sex attraction before his mission, during his mission and after his mission—and trying to make it work with a girl. Wilson eventually concluded—as he couldn’t make it work with a woman—“no happy ending for me” with led to sadness and depression. Wilson talks about a powerful experience in the Temple seeing a rainbow on his hand—and the personal revelation that his Heavenly Parents love him including his queer identity—and how that brought him so much peace and removed shame. Wilson then talks about “teach me with I need to know about myself” and how having “the test isn’t having same-sex attraction, but will you stay with the Savior”. Wilson talks about the UVU LGBTQ Institute class and associated activities (around 100) and how helpful that is to Wilson to feel belonging, support, and staying close to Jesus. Wilson concludes with a personal message to closeted LGBTQ youth. Thank you Wilson for being on the podcast. You are a good man—with many gifts to life and help others. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Links: Instagram @wilsonprvado

    1 hr

  8. May 15

    Episode 892: Greg Prince Book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church”, Episode Two

    My friend Greg Prince (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019. In this episode, Greg talks the legal efforts of the Church to stop same-sex marriage starting in Hawaii (1990), Proposition 22 (2000) and Proposition 8 (2008) in California, and other efforts—and the “Unintended Consequences” along the way. Greg takes us behind the screens to understand the Church role in and arguments against same-sex marriage—arguments that end up not being empirically defendable. Stung and surprised by the backlash against the Church for its role in Proposition 8, Greg shares the stories of reconciliation between both groups—and how that led to the Church’s support for LGBTQ+ non-discrimination protections in Utah regarding housing and employment (SB296 in 2015). Greg talks about the Church support in 2023 for the Respect for Marriage Act—sending a General Authority Seventy for the signing of the bill at the White House. I believe it is important to understand the church’s efforts against same sex marriage—and its ultimate support 32 years later for the Respect for Marriage Act. It helps me understand the needless pain for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families largely driven by the culture and fearmongering of the day—and to also open our hearts and minds to future efforts to better support them. It also causes me to consider targeted groups today—like our LDS transgender friends—and not wanting to fall in the same pattern. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families. Links: Greg’s Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZB Church’s support for Respect for Marriage Act: https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2022/12/13/23508214/church-releases-statement-amended-u-s-respect-for-marriage-act-signing/

    1h 18m
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About

Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. I am the author of three books: “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566) “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280) The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations. Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️ I am the author of two Ensign articles: ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use. This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children. Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books. With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5 E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

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