An anti-fascist spy handed American officials evidence of murderous intent from a Nazi planning server — and they declined to act.About the Guest Christopher Mathias is a journalist covering the far right, formerly a senior reporter at HuffPost, with work appearing in The Guardian, The Nation, MSNBC, Zeteo, and WNYC. His reporting has helped unmask white supremacist cops, soldiers, teachers, and politicians, and he was a Deadline Awards finalist for feature writing. He is originally from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania and lives in New York. His new book, To Catch a Fascist: The Fight to Expose the Radical Right (Atria Books), is out now. About the EpisodeDays after Jonathan Rauch’s influential Atlantic essay announced he’d moved from fascism skeptic to fascism believer, Christopher Mathias joins the show to discuss his new book — a deeply reported investigation into the decentralized network of anti-fascist activists who infiltrate, monitor, and expose neo-Nazis and white supremacists operating in positions of power across America. The conversation quickly moves beyond whether Trump is a fascist to the harder questions his book raises: Who gets to decide who is exposed? What rights to privacy do members of extremist groups retain? Is unmasking community self-defense or vigilantism? And does the same logic that justifies exposing a neo-Nazi EMT extend to the tens of thousands of ICE agents now conducting raids on American streets? Timeline 00:00 Introduction Jonathan Rauch’s Atlantic essay and the renewed fascism debate 01:10 Meet Christopher Mathias Introducing the book and the journalist behind it 01:45 The Greenville Moment When Mathias first used “fascist” in a headline after watching Trump whip a crowd into chanting “Send her back” 02:40 Defining the F-Word Fascism as a right-wing politics of domination; Langston Hughes recognizing it in the 1930s before the word arrived 04:15 The Hard Question If MAGA is a fascist movement, are the 70-plus million who voted for Trump fascists too? 05:55 The Worst of the Worst Why the book targets explicit neo-Nazis in positions of power, not ordinary Trump supporters 08:15 Who Decides? Privacy, accountability, and whether everyone at Charlottesville deserves exposure 10:45 Antifascist Amnesty Leave the movement and we leave you alone; return and we publish 12:30 The Equivalence Trap Why Mathias rejects the idea that this is just radicals exposing radicals 14:05 From Neo-Nazis to ICE How anti-fascist tactics are now used to identify masked federal agents 17:15 Where Does It End? Drawing lines between violent enforcement and bureaucratic participation 19:40 “Just Following Orders” Why some orders shouldn’t be followed, and the occupation of Minneapolis 21:30 The Battle Over Shame Competing databases, surveillance, and what America should be ashamed of 23:15 The Spy Who Warned Charlottesville An infiltrator uncovers plans for violence that officials ignore 26:00 Minneapolis as Model “We protect us” and a blueprint for grassroots resistance 28:45 The Underground War Intelligence, counterintelligence, and the personal cost of exposure 30:30 Closing Fascism as a snake eating its own tail and the urgent task of limiting the damage Links & References Mentioned in this episode: Jonathan Rauch, “Yes, It’s Fascism” — The Atlantic (January 2026) To Catch a Fascist: The Fight to Expose the Radical Right by Christopher Mathias (Atria Books, February 2026) Christopher Mathias reporting archive Follow Christopher Mathias: BlueSky | X About Keen On America Keen On America is a daily podcast hosted by Andrew Keen, the Anglo-American writer and Silicon Valley insider named by GQ magazine as one of the world’s “100 Most Connected Men.” Every day, Andrew brings his sharp Transatlantic wit to the forces reshaping the United States — interviewing leading thinkers and writers about American history, politics, technology, culture, and business. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show’s founding on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting. Website | Substack | YouTube