What Do You Mean By That?

Sara and Misasha

Join multi-ethnic co-hosts Sara + Misasha - two wickedly smart, heart-led, long-distance best friends - as they help folks talk smarter and think deeper about the world around us. Whether it's about science, history, current events, social justice, or more, their community consists of people who want to be better humans, to benefit all of us. We won't let the fire hose of information overwhelm us. Whether you're a seasoned expert or new to the work, you'll find yourself listening, learning, and feeling inspired to do something new after each episode. If you can never get enough knowledge but also don't want to feel overwhelmed… Congratulations, you've found your people. Follow to join a community of curious folks who constantly wonder: what do you mean by that?

  1. 26: Still Not a Monolith: How We're Thinking About AANHPI Heritage Month This Year

    May 19

    26: Still Not a Monolith: How We're Thinking About AANHPI Heritage Month This Year

    What does it mean to be American? What does it mean to be Asian American — and why, in 2026, are so many of us still leading with worry? Today, in honor of AANHPI Heritage Month, we're diving into the TAAF STAATUS Index 2026 by unpacking some stats that are eye-opening, some that are infuriating, and some that are deeply familiar. We'll talk about how Asian Americans are seen - and how we see ourselves - from the food on our plates to the question of whether you even have to be born here to belong here. It's AANHPI Heritage Month, and we have some thoughts (unsurprising to all of our regular listeners, we're sure!). If this episode resonates with you, please share widely - and let us know what action step you decided to take after listening. What to listen for:  The latest data shows that Asian Americans in 2026 feel predominantly worried right now (compared to other groups who feel more "hopeful") - here's why we think that might be, and it may not be the why that's most common What does it mean to be American? Do you have to be born in the US? And why do so many folks of Asian descent feel you don't have to be born here to be American?  How Asian culture shows up in our homes.  Some ideas for what you can do this month: Watch an Asian film (made by Asians, featuring Asians), have some Asian food, research a significant moment in Asian American history, speak with your Asian friends to learn something new about their lives.

    23 min
  2. 25: From Almost High School Dropout to Stanford Law to Fighting for All Of Us: Using Legal Skills as a Force for Good, with Luke Liss

    May 5

    25: From Almost High School Dropout to Stanford Law to Fighting for All Of Us: Using Legal Skills as a Force for Good, with Luke Liss

    What if the thing holding back justice isn't lack of will — it's lack of access?  Today's guest is doing something about that after coming up from a really rough time in high school, a near-fatal car crash, a parent who believed in him endlessly, and ending up not only at Stanford Law but also with one of the most powerful mentors in the field of law. For those of you who - like Sara - have liked to tease lawyers for being miserable people with secret languages, this episode brings the absolute best in the field to rehabilitate that image, infuse us with hope and humanity, and remind us that, even if we're not lawyers, there is a LOT we can each do to make the world a better place.   What to listen for: Transformation is rarely linear — and patience is the secret ingredient. And a message for parents of struggling teens: believe in them relentlessly, even when they make it hard, because knowing someone is in your corner can be the difference that keeps a young person from going over the edge. Mentorship is a two-way street. Luke describes his decades-long relationship with trailblazing attorney Harry Bremond, who shaped him both professionally and personally — but he's clear that great mentorship requires great mentees. Showing up, being reliable, and genuinely investing in the relationship is what transforms a professional connection into a lasting legacy. You don't have to be a lawyer to fight for justice in your community. There is so much we can each do in our communities to create tangible change, even volunteering for a few hours. And mentally? Luke says it's important to be good to yourself and allow yourself and others grace. Go on and find the joy in life while we're living it!   About our guest: Luke Liss is the Pro Bono Partner of Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati. He manages the firm's global Community Impact program. Luke also actively leads multiple pro bono impact litigation and immigration teams.  Luke has also played a key leadership role in high-profile pro bono litigation, including a trial win on behalf of one of the largest classes of Medicare patients in history, a historic win on summary judgment against a former Colombian paramilitary war lord on behalf of family members of a murdered community activist, and the settlement of a civil rights lawsuit alleging constitutional violations in Louisiana. Luke remains active in the leadership of multiple ongoing impact litigation matters.

    34 min
  3. 24: Are White Men Smarter Than Everyone Else? With Steve Phillips

    Apr 21

    24: Are White Men Smarter Than Everyone Else? With Steve Phillips

    The choice before us in 2026 is similar to the choice before Americans in the latter half of the 19th century, and the way we're framing it today is this:  Which straight White male President's line of thinking do you want to get behind? Choice #1 is Abraham Lincoln, who not only signed the Emancipation Proclamation, but was a firm believer in human rights for all, or Choice #2, the President who followed him, Andrew Johnson, who was perhaps the biggest Confederate sympathizer that we've had as President (minus, perhaps, our current one)? In other words, the choice is between believing in equal rights for all of us, or believing in rights only for rich, landowning, straight White men. Ultimately, this was the question before us in America 150+ years ago. It's the same question we're facing today.  To unpack this, we're having a conversation with a political leader, lawyer, and author who thinks deeply, systematically, and convincingly to capture your attention with boldness and walk you through some great ways to take action. We hope you listen, share widely, and be bold in how you envision 2026. What to listen for:  The clear stat that White men make up 29% of the American population. Yet if you look at leadership positions across the board, they make up a disproportionately large share. Do we think White men are smarter than everyone else? Is that why this percentage is so much higher? Or, is there a more systemic thing going on?  There are only two ways to answer this question, according to Steve. "One is that there is, in fact, something wrong with the communities of color and women, or in that white men are therefore smarter, more talented, more driven, and more deserving of being in these positions… The other is that there's actually a preference being shown to white men….But we don't have the conversation. We don't ask the question, and that's what I'm trying to remedy." On his spicy book title: "Pointing out inequality should not be more controversial than perpetuating the actual inequality."  Why Steve thinks the Democratic Party is bad at math.  About our guest: Steve Phillips is a bestselling author, columnist, and national political thought leader. He is the author of The New York Times and Washington Post bestsellers Brown Is the New White and How We Win the Civil War. His newest book is Are White Men Smarter Than Everybody Else?  He is also the founder of Democracy in Color, a political media organization dedicated to race, politics, and the progressive New American Majority. Phillips is the host of Democracy in Color with Steve Phillips, a color-conscious podcast on politics. He is a regular columnist for The Nation and The Guardian.

    46 min
  4. 22: Where Do You Belong? Multi-Ethnic Identity and Citizenship with Megumi Nishikura

    Mar 24

    22: Where Do You Belong? Multi-Ethnic Identity and Citizenship with Megumi Nishikura

    Sara. Misasha. Megumi. All three of us are the daughter of one Japanese parent and one White parent each. All three of us had dual citizenship with the United States and Japan at one point. But the trajectories of our citizenship are distinctly different, and only one of us holds a Japanese passport now. Are we all still Japanese?   Today, we speak with Megumi Nishikura, a documentary filmmaker who focuses on stories not often told in our history books, despite their themes impacting so many of us, Japanese or not. We explore belonging, identity, citizenship, and what history teaches us about where we are now - and the stories we want to carry forward with us. If you've ever wondered if you've belonged, or if you've ever been told you're not ____ enough, we hope you listen, and join our conversation.   What to listen for: The small things people - sometimes unintentionally - say that make others feel like they don't belong. What it's like to live in the grey zone between the law and reality when it comes to citizenship and membership in communities. One word: anxiety.  How observed demographic changes don't necessarily mean that lived experiences change too much…yet.  About Our Guest:  Megumi Nishikura is a documentary filmmaker whose work explores identity, belonging, and the cultural intersections between Japan and the world. Her feature documentary film "Hafu - the mixed race experience" screened theatrically throughout Japan and aired on PBS and NipponTV. She produced "Fall Seven Times, Get Up Eight: The Japanese War Brides," which aired globally on BBC World News. In 2019, Megumi directed and produced "Minidoka," a short film about the Japanese American internment experience during WWII, which was published by TIME magazine. She is currently making a film about Japan's Nationality Law and the dual citizenship issue in Japan.  When she's not making her own films, Megumi works as a producer on docuseries for major streaming platforms. A few photos from HAFU and her latest film:  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JK8VEHfq9dhog5ZSindMVccurZQXcYDj   Trailer links: Hafu - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_wQQZY-OE&t=1s War Brides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc0cpMPmMeU Minidoka - https://vimeo.com/384081882?fl=pl&fe=sh

    32 min
  5. Mar 10

    21: Fixing Fairness: The Future of DEI, Workplace Equity, and Organizational Change, with Lily Zheng

    What if the very programs designed to make workplaces fairer are actually making the problem worse? In this episode, we begin with the famous "Cobra Effect"—a colonial-era policy that unintentionally increased the problem it was meant to solve—and explore how the same dynamic shows up in modern diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts. Our guest, Lily Zhang, argues that many corporate DEI initiatives fail not because the goals are wrong, but because the strategies are. Drawing on decades of research, Lily breaks down why performative programs, surface-level solutions, and "band-aid" workplace initiatives rarely create real change—and what leaders, employees, and communities can do instead to build truly fair organizations for human beings who deserve better. What to listen for:  The fabulous cobra story, helping set the stage for unintended consequences that can enable or even worsen the original problem  The best condensed explanation of the history of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion that we've heard The contrasting stats about how many people want DEI, but say they don't see any perceived benefits – and why that is problematic.  So how do we build more humane workplaces? Enter the FAIR framework of outcomes we want to see in the workplace - fairness, access, inclusion, representation - and what it takes to transform the diversity backlash into real change: outcomes, systems, coalitions, and win-win. How Lily guards against burnout, personally About Lily:    LILY ZHENG (they/them) is a no-nonsense strategist, consultant, and author who helps leaders and practitioners build workplaces that work for everyone. They are the creator of the FAIR Framework, an evidence-based approach giving guidance to those driving the next evolution of workplace diversity, equity, and inclusion. Lily's work has been featured in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and NPR, and their bestselling books, DEI Deconstructed, Reconstructing DEI, and Fixing Fairness, lay out the practical skills and knowledge anyone can use to create the healthy workplaces we all deserve. They live with their wife in the San Francisco Bay Area and can frequently be found indoor rock climbing and putting together yet another all-black outfit. Buy Fixing Fairness here.

    45 min
  6. 20: Where the Girls Were, with Kate Schatz

    Feb 24

    20: Where the Girls Were, with Kate Schatz

    Today's conversation is one about history — but also about now. About 1968 and about 2026. About who gets control over their own body — and who never truly has. About the quiet, complicated ways parents try to protect their children, and the unintended harm that can hide inside "what's best." About the tension between safety and freedom. Between acceptance and autonomy. Between love and control. We're so excited to talk with a podcast favorite, Kate Schatz, about her new book Where The Girls Were, in today's episode, and we REALLY dive into everything we mentioned above, and more. If this resonates, please share - we think this is a book and conversation that everyone should be having and reading right now.  What to listen for:  How personal this topic is for Kate, and the return to her creative storytelling roots That each parent wants what's best for their children – and the ways that show up differently for each set of circumstances Zooming into a tiny nugget of a topic (birds) and out to a tremendously wide topic (abortion rights) What to do differently:  Grab this novel and discuss it with your book club Share this idea with your elders to see if they have any stories from their generation Talk with the younger generation about pregnancy, how the body works, different experiences people have accessing healthcare – anything to normalize these conversations so they don't feel as alone as the main character does in the novel!  About the author:  Kate Schatz is a feminist author from California. She's the New York Times bestselling author of Do the Work: An Anti-Racist Activity Book, with W. Kamau Bell, and the "Rad Women" book series (including Rad American Women A-Z, Rad Women Worldwide, and Rad American History A-Z). Her book of fiction, Rid of Me: A Story, was published as part of the cult-favorite 33 1/3 series.

    31 min
4.7
out of 5
140 Ratings

About

Join multi-ethnic co-hosts Sara + Misasha - two wickedly smart, heart-led, long-distance best friends - as they help folks talk smarter and think deeper about the world around us. Whether it's about science, history, current events, social justice, or more, their community consists of people who want to be better humans, to benefit all of us. We won't let the fire hose of information overwhelm us. Whether you're a seasoned expert or new to the work, you'll find yourself listening, learning, and feeling inspired to do something new after each episode. If you can never get enough knowledge but also don't want to feel overwhelmed… Congratulations, you've found your people. Follow to join a community of curious folks who constantly wonder: what do you mean by that?

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