The Former Lawyer Podcast

Sarah Cottrell
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Do you hate working as a lawyer? Are you an unhappy lawyer who wants to leave the law, but isn't sure what to do next? Do your family and friends think you're crazy for wanting to leave the law, or are you too afraid to tell them you don't want to be a lawyer? The Former Lawyer Podcast is for you! Each week, host Sarah Cottrell interviews a different former lawyer who has left the law behind. Hear inspiring stories about how these former lawyers are thriving and found their way to careers and lives they love.

  1. 2d ago

    The Artificial Power Structure and Feeling Helpless as a Lawyer with Annie Little

    In today’s episode, Sarah is back again with Annie Little discussing the book B******t Jobs by David Graeber. It’s part of a series of podcast discussions, so check out the others before and after this one. Graeber gives four reasons why having a b******t job feels so miserable. Last week’s discussion was all about the first reason—ambiguity and forced pretense—catch up on that one first. Then, let’s dive into the second reason. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/188 I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time.  Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

    The Artificial Power Structure and Feeling Helpless as a Lawyer with Annie Little

  2. Jul 13

    The Misery of Ambiguity and Forced Pretense in Law Firms

    This episode is part 2 of the series where Sarah is chatting with Annie Little about the book B******t Jobs by David Graeber. If you missed the first episode in this series, check that out first and learn the background of this series and more about Annie. This episode is about the misery of ambiguity and forced pretense, which is the first of four things Graeber identifies as an impact that having a b******t job can have on you. When it comes to ambiguity in law firms, the lack of transparency is the first thing that comes to mind for Annie. She points out that there should be a simple, straightforward path with clear instructions on each assignment and an obvious ladder to climb within the firm. In reality, there are so many hidden things that lawyers are left to just figure out on their own.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/187 I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time.  Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

    The Misery of Ambiguity and Forced Pretense in Law Firms

  3. Jul 6

    Is Being A Lawyer A B******t Job?

    Sarah revisits the B******t Job series on today's podcast with Annie Little, another lawyer career coach. Annie has been on the podcast a few times in the past, like the episode on ADHD. She founded her company, JD Nation, and helps lawyers find better jobs, both in and out of law.  In this new series, the two of them discuss the book B******t Jobs: A Theory by David Graeber and dive into some of the book's observations. This first episode covers why you should care about this book and answer, “Is being a lawyer a b******t job?” See show notes at formerlawyer.com/186 I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time.  Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

    Is Being A Lawyer A B******t Job?

  4. Jun 29

    How Lawyers Can Rethink Their Skills for Business with Alex Su

    In legal practice, it is easy to start measuring yourself by whether you can cover every detail, do everything perfectly, and keep grinding through whatever is in front of you. If that is not the way you are wired, it can feel like there is something wrong with you, instead of recognizing that the job is rewarding a narrow set of behaviors. Alex Su describes this as game selection. In business roles, especially sales, marketing, and business development, success often depends on trying things, learning what works, moving on from what does not, and prioritizing the things that actually move the needle. The question becomes less about whether you can fix yourself into a better lawyer and more about whether you are playing the right game for your strengths. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks with returning guest Alex Su about what lawyers need to understand when they move out of practice and into business roles. They talk about why legal training can make that shift feel uncomfortable, how performance-based work rewards a different kind of resilience, and why the right role can make strengths visible that law may have treated like problems. 1:43 - Alex’s move from practicing law into a business career in the legal space 3:55 - Why business roles reward a different skill set than legal practice 5:49 - The comfort of hours worked and why the shift to ROI can feel difficult 7:21 - What changes when the goal is producing outcomes instead of putting in more hours 9:15 - Why experimentation requires a different relationship with failure 10:28 - How perfectionism can become counterproductive in performance-based roles 13:05 - When traits that are treated like problems in law can work well elsewhere 14:54 - Alex’s idea of game selection and choosing the right role for your strengths 21:08 - What Latitude partners do after leaving the practice of law 24:22 - Why business roles require ruthless prioritization 27:10 - The kind of resilience that business roles require 30:33 - How legal practice moralizes failure in a way other roles often do not 33:56 - Why a successful pivot requires knowing yourself and staying a student 36:34 - Head intelligence, instinct, and emotional intelligence in non-practicing roles 39:39 - Alex’s advice for lawyers considering a pivot to sales, business development, or business Mentioned In How Lawyers Can Rethink Their Skills for Business with Alex Su From Biglaw to Legal Tech with Alex Su Alex Su’s Substack Alex Su on LinkedIn Latitude Legal | Legal Partner Job Posting First Steps to Leaving the Law Former Lawyer Collaborative I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time.  Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

    How Lawyers Can Rethink Their Skills for Business with Alex Su

  5. Jun 22

    How to Take A Mental Health Leave of Absence From Your Law Firm with Megan Nogasky

    Listen, it's the summer of 2026. Everything is a dumpster fire, and there are a lot of people who have been struggling a lot with their mental health, especially in the last two years. Sarah's seen a lot of clients take mental health leave or after taking mental health leave.  This episode serves as a reminder that even though it's not available to everyone, because it depends a lot on your particular employer, if it is something that your employer offers, and if you are struggling, it can be an incredibly helpful tool in your mental health toolkit. Sarah is joined by Megan Nogasky to discuss taking mental health leave, what it's like, what you can expect, and some of the things to think about when you're considering it. Show notes at https://formerlawyer.com/176 I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time.  Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

    How to Take A Mental Health Leave of Absence From Your Law Firm with Megan Nogasky

  6. Jun 15

    Leaving the Law When You’re Already Burned Out

    Leaving the law when you’re already burned out can feel impossible, because the job you need energy to escape is the same job draining all of your energy. You may understand that you need to figure out what comes next, but when you are scraping by energetically, even one more task can feel like too much. That is where a lot of burned out lawyers get stuck. They assume that if they do not have hours and hours each week, whole weekends, or a huge amount of bandwidth to put toward leaving the law, then they cannot make any real progress. But Sarah talks about why consistency matters more than massive amounts of time, especially when everything already feels hard. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about leaving the law when you are already burned out, why the process may require less weekly time than you think, how bridge jobs can create relief, and when mental health leave may be worth considering. 0:27 - Leaving the law when you are already burned out 1:09 - The question burned out lawyers ask when they know they need to figure out what comes next 3:14 - Why career change does not require five or ten hours a week 4:54 - How bridge jobs can help burned out lawyers get relief 6:51 - Why mental health leave exists and when lawyers should consider it 8:43 - What to remember if you are leaving the law while already burned out Mentioned In Leaving the Law When You’re Already Burned Out Take Mental Health Leave Of Absence From Your Law Firm Burnout In Lawyers With Ilona Salmons Signs Of Lawyer Burnout - What Lawyers Need To Know First Steps to Leaving the Law The Former Lawyer Collaborative I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time.  Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

    Leaving the Law When You’re Already Burned Out

  7. Jun 8

    Making a Career Change When You're Afraid of Getting It Wrong with Kelcey Baker

    Going to law school felt like the right call. For some lawyers it felt like the obvious call, backed up by experience, by personality, by everything they knew about themselves at the time. So when practicing law turns out to be a bad fit, the harder part is that the decision felt so right going in. If they were wrong about something they were that sure about, how can they trust themselves to choose anything else? That fear is what keeps so many lawyers where they are, even when staying is actively hurting them. For lawyers trained by a profession that treats every mistake like malpractice, it doesn't take much to go from "I might choose wrong" to "I should never choose at all." In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks with returning guest Kelcey Baker about what it actually looks like to make career moves that don't go as planned, how Kelcey navigated leaving two law firms and eventually launching a consulting business, why the idea that you only get one shot at a career change keeps lawyers stuck, and what changes when you stop trying to make the perfect decision and start making any decision at all. 1:28 - The fear of making a mistake and choosing something that's even worse than where you are now 2:59 - Kelcey's first "did I make a huge mistake" moment and why it wasn't law school 6:25 - How realizing law is a bad fit damages your ability to trust yourself to make career decisions 9:24 - Why lawyers who worked as paralegals before law school often feel an extra layer of self-blame 11:19 - The "I should have known" trap and why you couldn't have known what you didn't experience 14:35 - How the experience of a bad fit impacts the next career decision and the one after that 17:40 - Why most people who go to law school were too young to have done the inner work of knowing themselves 19:17 - Why punishing your younger self for not knowing what you know now keeps you stuck 20:57 - The pressure to find the capital-T Thing and how fear of judgment keeps lawyers in jobs that are hurting them 30:48 - The binary thinking that makes it feel like you're either a lawyer or you're nothing 33:33 - How Kelcey built a consulting business by combining what she was good at with what she actually liked 36:02 - Why perfectionist, eldest-daughter types forget they're resourceful enough to figure it out 41:03 - You will be okay, and if the next thing isn't right either, you can keep going 43:46 - Bridge jobs, lily pad jobs, and why it doesn't have to be forever to be worth doing Mentioned In Making a Career Change When You're Afraid of Getting It Wrong with Kelcey Baker Kelcey Baker on LinkedIn Validation: An Incredible Tool for Unhappy Lawyers with Kelcey Baker Startling Parallels Between Narcissism In Law Firms And Family Units How Law Firms Avoid All Responsibility for Toxic Environments with Kelcey Baker Lawyers - Hoping To Be Hit By A Bus Isn't Normal First Steps to Leaving the Law The Former Lawyer Collaborative I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time.  Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

    Making a Career Change When You're Afraid of Getting It Wrong with Kelcey Baker

  8. Jun 1

    The Shame Lawyers Feel About Wanting to Leave Law

    Somewhere along the way, most lawyers picked up the idea that once you commit to something, you follow through. No exceptions. So when the thought of leaving starts to surface, it doesn't feel like a career question. It feels like there's something shameful about admitting your original decision was wrong. But the decision to become a lawyer was made at a specific age, with a specific amount of information. The lived experience of actually practicing law is new information. And in almost any other context, no one would question whether you should update a decision when the information changes. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why so many lawyers feel ashamed of wanting to change their minds, where that "don't be a quitter" conditioning comes from, why it takes maturity to look at your decisions and choose something different, and why therapy is often the best place to start untangling all of it. 0:30 - The shame lawyers feel about changing their minds and where it comes from 1:04 - How the decision to leave becomes tangled with feeling "wrong" about the original choice 2:10 - The decision to become a lawyer was made with limited information at a specific age 3:14 - Why lawyers don't apply the "new information" standard to their own experience 4:00 - The "don't be a quitter" conditioning and how good-student types absorb it 7:55 - Holding your past self to a standard no human can be held to Mentioned In The Shame Lawyers Feel About Wanting to Leave Law First Steps to Leaving the Law The Former Lawyer Collaborative I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time.  Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

    The Shame Lawyers Feel About Wanting to Leave Law
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Do you hate working as a lawyer? Are you an unhappy lawyer who wants to leave the law, but isn't sure what to do next? Do your family and friends think you're crazy for wanting to leave the law, or are you too afraid to tell them you don't want to be a lawyer? The Former Lawyer Podcast is for you! Each week, host Sarah Cottrell interviews a different former lawyer who has left the law behind. Hear inspiring stories about how these former lawyers are thriving and found their way to careers and lives they love.

Information

  • Creator
    Sarah Cottrell
  • Years Active
    2019 - 2026
  • Episodes
    357
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Former Lawyer Podcast
  • Show Website
    The Former Lawyer Podcast

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