XChateau Wine Podcast

Robert Vernick, Peter Yeung
  • 4.9 (105)
  • FOOD
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

A podcast delivering wine perspectives ex-chateau. Insights, analysis, and perspectives on news and trends in the wine industry beyond winemaking, such as marketing, finance, and consumer trends. From noted wine blogger Robert Vernick (@wineterroir) and leading wine business consultant and author of Luxury Wine Marketing Peter Yeung (@winebizguy), this podcast navigates the business of wine with unique perspectives and insights. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. 1D AGO

    US Wholesale Masterclass w/ Pete Przybylinski, The Duckhorn Portfolio (Part 2)

    Having helped grow Duckhorn from $5M to $500M in revenue and the sales team from 1 to >100 people, Pete Przbylinksi, former Chief Sales Officer of The Duckhorn Portfolio for nearly 30 years, has a deep understanding of managing US wholesale markets.  In part two, Pete discusses selling into on- and off-premise chains, pricing, marketing, and more. Detailed Show Notes:  Selling on-premise takes more time, need to present the wine, sell 1 case at a time, but more marketing value ROI skews towards off-premise if you ignore brand equity Calera / Kosta Browne targeted 65-70% on-premise, but hard to enforce Can’t tell distributor where to sell since they own the productIf retailer asks for it, some states legally require it be offeredSelling off-premise chains Rely very little on distributor, need to build relationship on your ownIf brand is small, can use agents/brokers or distributors to get initial discussionsTakes patience and perseverance, and need a compelling storyBig retailers don’t care about the winemaking process, they care that customers will buy the wineIn-store displays Retail product managers fight with each other for displaysIf displays don’t deliver value, they will lose floor space to othersConstellation research: most product pulled from shelf, not displays; displays act as powerful billboard for shoppersShelf placement Cold box similar to displays - limited real estate, hard to get in and get the desirable locationsNeed to communicate to wholesaler merchandising teams where you’d like to be (e.g. - x shelf next to y competitor); need to keep message simple Stick w/ message for ~2 years, takes a long time to see impact, needs patienceLarge on-premise accounts Look at ACV (volume) to identify top targetsSimilar to off-premise with limited real estate (wine list slots) and they need the wine to sellCan take fewer wines vs off-premise (2-4 max)Longer lead times, programs can be 1-2 years, need to be ready when windows openBTG great, but creates some pricing complicationsNeed to show up where buyers are, e.g. - major events like Pebble Beach or Aspen Food & WineDecoy’s success driven by off-premise Safeway in CA launched brand, then went to other regions and retailers and grew from thereDuckhorn brand equity gave Decoy a springboard to launch, but was able to stand alone and now most Decoy drinkers don’t know the tie to DuckhornPrice increases Get all the data you can (competitor, consumer behavior, demand elasticity)The nuances of consumers and differences in brand equity are impactfulAny decisions take time, may not affect retailers for ~120 days, could take 6-12 months before you see an impactDiscounting Key for the grocery channelDiscounting should be done after all other options exhaustedThe more it happens, customers think that’s the price of the product, erodes brand equityImpact of marketing on sales Duckhorn did very little traditional marketing, mostly sales support (spent ~1.5-2% of revenue)LVMH spends ~30% on marketing, CPG average is ~10% of revenueDid some testing of advertising in 1 market for 1 year and measured impact to determine if it should be expandedPartnerships w/ other products good for grocery channel, can often secure displaysAdvice for a tough wine market Set up production to align w/ honest and believable sales planLong-term impacts of cutting opex will hurt growing the top-line Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    35 min

  2. DEC 10

    US Wholesale Masterclass w/ Pete Przybylinski, The Duckhorn Portfolio (Part 1)

    Having helped grow Duckhorn from $5M to $500M in revenue and the sales team from 1 to >100 people, Pete Przbylinksi, former Chief Sales Officer of The Duckhorn Portfolio for nearly 30 years, has a deep understanding of managing US wholesale markets.  In this two-part episode, Pete dives into every aspect of managing a wholesale sales team, including incentive structures and collaborating with distributors. Detailed Show Notes:  Duckhorn went from 50k cases / ~$5M in revenue / 14-15 employees (1995) to ~$500M revenue (2024) The Duckhorn Portfolio Duck themed: Duckhorn Vineyards (1978), Decoy (2nd label originally), Paraduxx (1994), Goldeneye, Migration, CanvasbackAcquisitions: Calera (2017), Kosta Browne (2018), Sonoma Cutrer (2024)Keys to Duckhorn’s success Brand equity - focused on Merlot, which was hot in 1980s-1990s and catapulted wineryKey assets - #1 people, #2 brand equityThe French Paradox (1991) created big demand for red wineTable stakes are good scores, showing up in the market, hosting guestsSales team grew from 1 person to >100 (~85 in the field) No perfect way to calculate ROI for sales people1st method: too many cases & distributors to manage, needed more people2nd method: quantified expected incremental sales from more people (data was full of holes)Final method: managed to target of 8-10% sales opex / revenue, because a KPI for SLT and BoardSales team roles Regional Managers, over a series of states (50-60% of time working w/ distributors, the rest out in the market or internal analysis and reporting)District Managers, geographically concentrated, go into accounts you want to be inNational Accounts, on and off-premise; a challenge to determine which accounts are national vs regional, ended up doing it case by case and assigning accountsDistributor consolidation led to wineries needed to do the work they cannot do E.g. - identifying underrepresented accounts and coming up with action plan by regionIdentifying top salespeople Look at overall contribution margin for the regionShare of business in market (using IRI, distributor reports, account base)Gross Profit%, identifies amount of trade spend usedHow responsive they are, their handle on the market, their decision making#1 method: do they bring new ideas to the tableIncentivizing salespeople Bonuses must be meaningful (25-35% is meaningful), higher for higher levelsLook at contribution margin relative to budgetUsed a curve (90% budget - no bonus, above budget - scale increased, which helps end of year motivation)District Managers may have market specific goals (e.g. - increasing depletions, PODs for particular products) that are short term (3-6 months)Overall, incentives are difficult to manage, data can lag; make it objectiveRecognition is helpful, e.g. - unexpected gifts like a signed 3L from the CEODistributor collaboration best practices Show them a plan and explain why it makes sense (e.g. - buyers are lined up) and get mutual agreementKeep it simple, the info needs to be passed on to othersIdentify what you’re prepared to do in the marketplace (e.g. - market visits, funding BTG programs, incentives, etc…)Do monthly check-ins and more formal quarterly reviews to see progress against plan and to adjust tactics and strategiesOptimal size of sales territories Depends on # of distributors in region (e.g. - TN had 8 distributors = 8 days/mo of meetings)Try to align with target sales opex / revenue ratios (~8-12%) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    43 min

  3. NOV 25

    Believing in your wine w/ Luisa Amorim, Mirabilis

    Building a new wine category is not something that is easy to plan.  It often is more like a startup, where belief in the product and market is just as critical as a defined strategy.  That's how Luisa Amorim, CEO of Amorim Family Estates, launched Mirabilis into being an iconic still white wine of the Douro Valley.  She outlines priority markets, views on scores and social media, and her belief in word of mouth marketing.   Detailed Show Notes:  Luisa’s background: hospitality, marketing; started in the family business at 23; spent 3 years in a global rotation program Amorim Family Estates 3 regions in Portugal (Douro, Dao, Alentejo)Each property has its own winery and team and does hospitality with a culture and food componentDivision of bigger Amorim cork company and family Mirabilis (part of Quinta Nova) Produced white wine from the beginning (2000)First an unoaked white, then a reserve, then Mirabilis (Latin for “marvelous”)White was not popular in Portugal at the time, production processes were not set up for whitesTook 2 years of experimentation, 1st vintage 2011 (2,000 bottles) Whites still have pricing barriers vs reds Douro white differentiation: close to Atlantic, schist soils, native grapes, and blending Introducing Douro whites: older people were harder to get on board, younger were more open to exploration Need to have belief in product and its viability over having a detailed marketing plan Marketing focus has been on teaching Portuguese wines (including culture and traditions) Geographic focus for Mirabilis Portugal 1st - need to be well respected in the home countrySwitzerland, Benelux (lots of Michelin Star restaurants)Not Scandinavia (targeting higher end of the market)Brazil (speak Portuguese)USA, Canada 5 people, based in Portugal, work internationally; travel 3-5x/year to each market While design and packaging, price positioning are important, the sales team and their relationships are critical in the wine industry Having a good wine is more important than press or reviews, people are paying less attention to reviews Consumers now look at peers and friends for recommendations and they need to trust the wine producer Social media - “should be doing more” - hiring younger people into marketing Wine marketing needs to capture the “soul” of the wine Make things simpler, less technical talkMore provocative, “sexy” vs saying the same thing all wineries say Has not done any paid advertising Relies on word of mouth (people taste, buy, and talk) and partnerships Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    43 min

  4. NOV 12

    The Long View to a Global Icon w/ Lamberto Frescobaldi, Ornellaia

    With 30 generations in the wine business, the Frescobaldis have a long-term view of the wine business.  This mindset has enabled Ornellaia to become a global icon.  Lamberto Frescobaldi, President of Frescobaldi, discusses how Ornellaia established and maintained its status as a global icon.  Detailed Show Notes:  Background: grew up in the Italian countryside, studied at UC Davis, learned the wines of the world working at Corti Bros in Sacramento Frescobaldi family 30 generations in wineNow in Tuscany, Northern Italy, Oregon, & SicilyFocused only on wine Ornellaia overview Cabernet Sauvignon, Petit Verdot, Merlot basedBolgheri not historically known as a wine region, not good for SangioveseSassicaia, Orenellaia, & Masseto put Bolgheri on the mapFrom year 1, quality was consistently goodFounded by Antinoris, Mondavis invited Frescobaldis to partner (Feb 2002), when Mondavi sold to Constellation (2004), Frescobaldi bought out Ornellaia (April 1, 2005)Frescolbaldis have long-term view, have owned Castiglioni since 1052 Distribution is mostly allocated due to limited quantities Consistent in giving allocations to people who bought the year beforeGrew distribution globally to maintain scarcityFocused on top restaurants first, get in the right accounts 3rd party validation (wine critics, famous artists, top restaurants) key to building reputation Vendemmia d’Artista Great artists interpret the wineEach vintage given a name (e.g. - power, elegance)Partnership w/ the Guggenheim globally introduces wine to art collectorsArtist label on large formats and 1 bottle of each 6 bottle case Ornellaia Blanco 1st planting by Antinori was Sauvignon BlancCooler, north facing site, small amount producedAged same amount of time as red, not aromatic, but complexMonitors secondary market to help learn about wine’s age ability, if prices dropping, implies inability to age Not sure if people buy Ornellaia from seeing it on social media, but allows winery to connect directly to customers Negative macro market conditions and trade wars not impacting Ornellaia much, 3rd wine (Le Volte) more susceptible, but haven’t seen impact yet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    53 min

  5. NOV 5

    The Blocking & Tackling of Building a Global Icon w/ David Pearson, Joseph Phelps

    With over 40 years of managing some of the top names in wine (Opus One, Mondavi, Baron Philippe de Rothschild), David Pearson, President of Joseph Phelps, has developed a distinct point of view on how to build a globally iconic brand. Ultimately, it comes down to relationships and the effort required to maintain them. From focus and prioritization to spending upwards of 65% of time on the road, David hopes more wineries will follow in his footsteps to build the category of Napa and American wines globally.   Detailed Show Notes:  David’s background: started as a winemaker (Europe, SoCal), sensory evaluation for Hublein (now Diageo), post-MBA marketing job with Baron Philippe de Rothschild, Mondavi in France (see Mondovino movie), managed Byron, then CEO of Opus One, now President of Joseph Phelps The goal is to create personal relationships and care about mutual success and partnership with accounts “Focus is the hard part” - at Opus, initially London, Hong Kong, Japan; then emerging markets, Mainland China, Dubai; Phelps also prioritized Korea Singapore distributor told him, “We’ll see you in 5 years, the French come every year.”Track people who buy wine and meet w/ them - 80/20 rule, focus on the top 20% of trade accountsAfter the top 20%, do second tier of accounts, then collectorsTravelled ~65% at Opus OneBudgets ~20-30% of marketing expenses for building relationshipsOpus One 1st 10 years - went to Asia, Canada, Europe every year, then put someone in Tokyo and Hong KongSends ~400-500 handwritten holiday cards to partners with specifics about their last visitTravel team includes a winemaker if they like it and are good at communicating, and a marketing team to better understand the marketPlease don’t make it feel anonymous, but give the meetings and message personalityAt Phelps, focused on Insignia and current vintage, show older wines to show aging potentialThe goal is to expand export to ~30-40% in 10 years vs. 12-13% of Insignia today Brands need to think deeper about what’s unique and also where they are going Get alignment between the story, the wine in the market, and where you’re goingThe winery owner had three objections to export: sell all the wine to US customers, don’t want to take any away from them don’t know who to sell to don’t want to spend the time and money to go thereLarger volume wines have different commercial relationships, same elements (knowing your partners, need to build), but margins tend to get squeezed Believes that if the category is successful (e.g., Napa), everyone will be more successful Negociants (La Place) respond to existing market demand well and are efficient distributors, but it is not in their DNA to build brands Phelps uses the LVMH distribution network to build the brand and deliver directly to the core accounts Measures quality of relationships w/ initial feeling, but then seeing the wines go to the market, need to see forward momentum Tracks Liv-ex pricing a lot, seen upticks in Insignia Other marketing elements: relationships happen over multiple channels now, need to do more social media, and be part of the discussion The pricing goal is to have trade and consumer connect the innate value of the wine to the price The current neo-prohibitionist environment recalls the 80s and the “Mondavi defense” of wine as a potential solution Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    52 min

  6. OCT 18

    Flexibility, not Sobriety w/ Maggie & Rodolphe Frerejean-Taittinger, French Bloom

    Pairing their need for a complex substitute for wine, for both pregnancy and professional network, Maggie Frerejean-Taittinger and friend Constance Jablonski enlisted Maggie’s husband, Champagne and Cognac winemaker Rodolphe to found French Bloom.  With four years of R&D prior to launch and constant refinement since, French Bloom aims to redefine the alcohol free premium sparkling wine space.  Maggie & Rodolphe delve into the creation of French Bloom, exploring its core markets, target customers, and the factors that have drawn them in.   Detailed Show Notes:  French Bloom overview 500k bottles (2024)Created a premium NA sparkling categoryFocused on sparkling to create complexity, can play with layersLVMH minority investor4 years of R&D to get the desired quality De-alc process loses 60% aroma (was 90% in 2021), removes the backbone of the wineBuilt NA wine like Cognac, needs an undrinkable base wineFocused on the South of France (warmer, higher alcohol and body) for stronger wines, more body, Languedoc (more organic 40% vs 3-4% in Champagne)Limoux is the best place for NA sparkling, 300m high, Chardonnay and Pinot Noir, a temple of natural wineBase wine is a bit oxidative, very acidified (used to add lemon juice, now naturally from wine), oaky (new oak, foudre), no sulfites, more tanninCreate blends of different reserve winesExtra Brut (0% abv, 0 sugar) has a base of 30% reserve wine from 2 years, aged in new oak barrels to give more structure Better to make adjustments before de-alc vs after Use voile to protect wine from oxidation (like Jura) Flash pasteurization is used b/c no abv, sulfites to protect the wine NA market Wine, beer, spirits - $10B (2020), $20B (2025), believes $30B (2030)Premium NA sparkling - $0.5B (2025), could double next 5 yearsHoly grail is quality NA still wine, not there yetBest distributors are wine / Champagne distributors, Thailand/Belgium have NA-focused distributorsFrench Bloom customers Biggest markets are Champagne markets (France, US #2, UK, Japan, Australia, Belgium, Germany)Younger (25-45), skew female, appreciates both alc and NA sparkling wineSells 20% DTC globally 2024 NielsenIQ study on NA purchase behavior - #1 driver - for conscious hosting (aligns w/ French Bloom’s ethos of not excluding anybody); #2 health & wellness; #3 driving Marketing is digital first, leveraging Constance as a tastemaker and key opinion leader More partnerships - Coachella, French Open, just signed F1 (10-year partnership, 1st ever official NA sparkling wine, Moet Chandon on podium; F1 new fans are 75% female, 50% Gen Z from Netflix series) Most effective marketing has been the founding story and authentic storytelling (i.e., Maggie’s pregnancy, Constance’s need for moderation while networking) Marketing through top-tier restaurants, hotels, and shops (e.g., Michelin-starred; became the #1 wine sold at Erewhon in 1 week) Michelin-starred restaurants have 50% non-drinkers at lunch, 20% at dinner No sugar, no additives, organic messaging plays well in California, less on the East Coast Uses the term “alcohol free” vs. “non-alcoholic” NA trends around NA wine & food pairing, including “moderate pairing” (wine & NA wine/drinks as part of pairing); mirrored cocktails (3 versions ofthe same cocktail - NA, low, full) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    47 min

  7. OCT 3

    The Tip of the Spear, Global Wine Auctions w/ Adam Bilbey, Christie’s

    Selling the very rare, collectible wines of the world, Adam Bilbey, SVP, Global Head of Wine & Spirits for Christie’s, has a unique view into the state of the wine collector. Adam maps the thought processes and changes in attitude of buyers and sellers of rare wine globally, and he is seeing “green shoots” in the market by mid-2025.   Detailed Show Notes:  Adam’s background - started w/ Berry Bros out of high school (2000) at Heathrow Airport shop, moved to Hong Kong in 2010 w/ Berry Bros, Sotheby’s in 2015, Christie’s in 2021 Christie’s is known for fine art, and wine is part of the luxury group (jewelry, handbags, cars), which is 20% of sales, and wine is 10-20% of luxury sales 2025 wine auction market Christie’s up 2x YOY Aug YTD, big single-owner sales (e.g., Bill Koch)Challenging market mid 2022-2024, newer vintage prices dropping more, more supply availableIn a downturn, buyers’ price expectations fall faster than sellers’“Green shoots” in 2025, pricing bottoming outBurgundy has taken share from Bordeaux last 5-6 years, Champagne came up and leveled off, Italy is strong in the US but not in Asia, Burgundy is strong in Asia, but leveled off Interest in more mature vintages, particularly Bordeaux, is still valued there Focus on provenance, people won’t bid on poor provenance anymore 2-tier pricing, people paying for a premium for a great collection, single-owner sales, they like the story of who owned the winesWith a more global market than ever, people buy from anywhere The US has a broader selectionEveryone buys from the UKAsia tends to need more focus (e.g., Burgundy)Liv-ex shows -10% pricing last year, -20% last 2 years; auction prices move gradually, often lots don’t sell More Millennials and Gen Z customers (45% 2025 from 30% 2022) Female customers have been consistent last 4-5 years, a slight dip in the US, and growing in Asia Younger generations are drinking younger wines, they like the security of younger wines, have a fear of disappointment in older bottles Online auctions require ease of use Christie’s does 2x online auctions vs liveLive auctions for key moments, key collectionsVarious owner sales in online auctionsProvenance is improving with more communication (e.g., purchase & storage records), people working together (merchants, auction houses), and technology (digital microscopes, UV light, carbon dating) Provenance is critical, as people remember the bad bottles sold to them over the good ones Believes China will make a comeback in the next 2-4 years Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    35 min

  8. SEP 20

    Breaking down the cost of sparkling wine w/ Weston Eidson, Westborn

    Making wine is capital-intensive. Making traditional method sparkling wine is even more so. From less juice from the grapes to double fermentation to more expensive bottles and taxes, Weston Eidson of recently launched Westborn Wine describes the differences in sparkling production.   Detailed Show Notes:  Weston’s background: >10 years winemaking in Napa (Silver Ghost), family are wine collectors, interned w/ Jason Moore at Modus Operandi (2012), and acquired extra Chardonnay from Steve Matthiasson Westborn was founded in 2018, taking “Grand Cru” or single vineyard level fruit for sparkling wine (e.g., Heintz, Ritchie, Durell vineyards) Partnered w/ Russell Bevan (mentor) and Nathan Reeves (made sparkling in Margaret River) The goal is to start with high-quality wines and layer on complexity with traditional method aging Took 4-5 years to find a stride & hone the winemaking process Initially thought it would be 3 years aging vs 6 for 1st release (2019 1st release; 2018 1st vintage just disgorged mid 2025) SKUs: vintage, Blanc de Blanc, Rose, Non-vintage Luxury priced - $100+ Solera method perpetual reserve program, late disgorged release, lead to a lot of capital in inventory 2018: 500 cases; 2025 ~1,000 cases; target ~2,000 cases Sparkling production costs vs. still wine Fruit costs the same (growers love it: less shrivel, gets fruit off earlier - less pest/disease pressure; spreads out the work)Press cuts important, ~25% less gallons/ton vs still wine, as they don’t take tailleNeed to make the wine twice: initial fermentation (vin clair), secondary fermentation (bottled with yeast and sugar)Custom crush costs are slightly more expensive due to double fermentationBottles are more costly and need to be bought earlier (~$0.15-20 for a standard bottle; ~$1 for sparkling)Taxes higher: $2.40/gallon for sparkling wine, $0.07/gallon for still wine 16% abvStorage and financing costs are higherFinancing is combined with other brands, which may make it hard to start a sparkling brand as a stand-alone entity Look at the business plan over 20 20-year time horizon, projecting cash flow positive in 2027 (9 years from founding) Trends underpinning Westborn strategy: following Michael Cruse w/ grower CA sparkling wine, premiumization, sparkling doing relatively well, sparkling being used beyond celebrations Take inspiration from Bereche, De Souza (lees stirring in bottle to amp up umami), and Selosse People looking for experiences have a tasting at The Art Collective Napa Valley Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    38 min
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4.9
out of 5
105 Ratings

About

A podcast delivering wine perspectives ex-chateau. Insights, analysis, and perspectives on news and trends in the wine industry beyond winemaking, such as marketing, finance, and consumer trends. From noted wine blogger Robert Vernick (@wineterroir) and leading wine business consultant and author of Luxury Wine Marketing Peter Yeung (@winebizguy), this podcast navigates the business of wine with unique perspectives and insights. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Information

  • Creator
    Robert Vernick, Peter Yeung
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2025
  • Episodes
    208
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2020 - 2021 XChateau
  • Show Website
    XChateau Wine Podcast

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