You can listen wherever you get your podcasts or check out the fully edited transcript of our interview at the bottom of this post. I am so excited I was able to interview a parenting thought leader I greatly admire. Lenore did not disappoint! So much wisdom, and so much fun! I think you’ll love this podcast episode.In this episode of The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, I interview Lenore Skenazy, author of “Free-Range Kids,” which grew into the Free-Range Kids movement. Now she is president of Let Grow, the national nonprofit that is making it easy, normal, and legal to give kids back independence. We talk about screens, anxiety, free play, and why childhood independence matters more than ever. 👉 Also- just announced- I’m teaching a workshop next week: “Parenting Strong-Willed Kids: Tools to Reduce Power Struggles without Crushing Their Spirit.” All the details HERE. Know someone who might appreciate this episode? Share it with them! 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We talk about: * 00:00 — Introduction to Lenore Skenazy * 03:00 — The disappearance of unstructured childhood and why kids need risk, boredom, and problem-solving * 06:00 — How independence builds confidence * 08:00 — The social pressure parents feel * 09:00 — How communities can bring back free play * 15:00 — What kids learn through unsupervised play * 19:00 — Why kids prefer real-world play to screens * 24:00 — How fear reshaped parenting * 29:00 — The rise of tracking and constant surveillance * 34:00 — Independence and mental health * 37:00 — The Let Grow Experience * 41:00 — Kids are not actually addicted to screens * 42:00 — Bringing back the teenage babysitter * 46:00 — How giving kids independence reduces the pressure of intensive parenting * 49:00 — The value of “kid world” * 50:00 — Lenore’s advice to her younger parent self Resources mentioned in this episode: * Lenore’s Book Free Range Kids * Two free independence-building programs for schools * The free “Four Weeks to a Let Grow Kid” program * Yoto Screen Free Audio Book Player * The Peaceful Parenting Membership * Evelyn & Bobbie bras * Strong-Willed Kids Workshop Connect with Sarah Rosensweet: * Instagram * Facebook Group * YouTube * Website * Join us on Substack * Newsletter * Book a short consult or coaching session call xx Sarah and Corey Your peaceful parenting team- click here for a free short consult or a coaching session Visit our website for free resources, podcast, coaching, membership and more! >> Please support us!!! Please consider becoming a supporter to help support our free content, including The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, our free parenting support Facebook group, and our weekly parenting emails, “Weekend Reflections” and “Weekend Support” - plus our Flourish With Your Complex Child Summit (coming back in the summer for the 3rd year!) All of this free support for you takes a lot of time and energy from me and my team. If it has been helpful or meaningful for you, your support would help us to continue to provide support for free, for you and for others. In addition to knowing you are supporting our mission to support parents and children, you get the podcast ad free and access to a monthly ‘ask me anything’ session. Our sponsors: YOTO: YOTO is a screen free audio book player that lets your kids listen to audiobooks, music, podcasts and more without screens, and without being connected to the internet. No one listening or watching and they can’t go where you don’t want them to go and they aren’t watching screens. BUT they are being entertained or kept company with audio that you can buy from YOTO or create yourself on one of their blank cards. Check them out HERE Evelyn & Bobbie bras: If underwires make you want to rip your bra off by noon, Evelyn & Bobbie is for you. These bras are wire-free, ultra-soft, and seriously supportive—designed to hold you comfortably all day without pinching, poking, or constant adjusting. Check them out HERE Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Peaceful Parenting Podcast. Today’s guest is Lenore Skenazy. You might know her as the author of the book Free-Range Kids and the founder of the movement of the same name. Now she’s president of Let Grow, the national nonprofit she co-founded with Peter Gray, Daniel Shuchman, and Jonathan Haidt. Their mission: making it easy, normal, and legal to give kids back some old-fashioned independence. Lenore says our kids are smarter, safer, and stronger than our culture gives them credit for. If you’re worried about the ubiquitousness of screens in your child’s life and/or about the rise of childhood anxiety, you’re going to want to have a listen to this episode. Lenore and I discussed the importance of unstructured, unsupervised time in childhood, why it disappeared, how to bring it back, and what happens when we do or don’t. She was so much fun to speak with, and her message is one that all parents need to hear and that all kids want them to hear. I just loved this conversation with Lenore, and I know you will too. Okay. Let’s meet Lenore. Sarah: Hi, Lenore. Welcome to the podcast. Lenore: Thank you, Sarah. I am happy to be here, wherever here is. Sarah: Well, I’m so excited to talk to you. I’ve followed your work since you were called the Worst Mom in America, back in the beginning of your Free-Range Kids days. I’m so excited about your new project that you’ve been working on. So maybe, if you could just introduce yourself and tell us who you are and what you do. Lenore: Sure. I am Lenore Skenazy. I live in New York City. I have two grown kids—growing, grown, whatever you want to say. When are they done? I don’t know. But I wrote the book Free-Range Kids, and I am now president of Let Grow, which is the nonprofit that’s promoting childhood independence. Sarah: I love it. I was recently—this, I promise, is going to make sense when I get back to it—but I recently listened to the memoir of Patti Smith, the artist and musician, and she talked a lot about her childhood growing up in the fifties, and how unsupervised and unstructured it was, and all of that. She had really great memories of playing in the woods, and the games that she would make up with her brothers and all of the neighborhood kids and the things that they would do. And I really wondered: is that kind of childhood why she became such a creative person and, you know, a successful person in that way? And it made me feel sad for that kind of childhood that’s lost to kids today. So why don’t kids have that sort of unstructured, unsupervised play, like maybe you and I even grew up with? Because I know I did, for sure. Lenore: I did, for sure, too. And everybody did. Some people ended up being Patti Smith, and most of us didn’t. Nonetheless, I’m sorry to see it evaporating too. One of my recent analogies is that the rainforest was sort of disappearing, but we didn’t notice until we looked at pictures from before and after, from 1970 till now, and it’s like, oh my God, that’s the earth’s lungs, and look how small they’ve gotten. And I feel that same way about unsupervised time in childhood. It’s this natural resource. It’s something that all kids thrive on having, and we just keep shrinking it and replacing it with organized and supervised activities that we think are better, that we think, oh, now they’re learning chess, or they’ve made it to the travel lacrosse team—that has to be good. You’re up in Canada: made it to the travel hockey team. That’s gotta be good. More time in the luge—that’s wonderful, right? But in fact, what kids really need, and what their whole innards are programmed to expect, is all sorts of time when they’re making up their own games, when they’re dealing with some fears and some squabbles with their friends as they figure out, what are we gonna do today? And, you know, is that tree gonna be too hard to climb? Let me try. Without those everyday experiences of a little bit of fear, a little bit of risk, some exhilaration that nobody is there to give you credit for or a trophy for or a grade for, there’s something called the internal locus of control. Internal locus of control is when you feel you can handle things. Things will come at you and you’ll deal, because you are confident and competent enough. An external locus of control is when you feel others are both manipulating you and taking care of you, that your fate is in someone else’s hands. We’ve sort of swapped the internal locus of control of Patti Smith’s childhood and our childhoods for this external locus of control where somebody’s saying, okay, it’s three o’clock, I’m gonna pick you up, and then we get you to dance, and then we got Kumon, and then there’s homework, and then there’s dinnertime, and 20 minutes exactly of reading, because that’s how you’re gonna turn into a kid who loves reading. “Okay, start. Stop. I really love that. Really fell into that book.” What I’m trying to say is that Mother Nature expected kids to get all of this give and take and excitement and confusion, and when we take it out, kids end up drooping because it’s like they haven’t gotten something very necessary for their development, sort of like food, except it’s independence and it’s free play. And we keep looking around saying, oh, it must be COVID that’s making kids so depressed. It must be phones that are making kids so anxious. And I think it’s just the fact that they have this very strange childhood, unlike what the system expects. And when you’re missing something foundational, you droop. Sarah: Our mutual friend Ned Johnson, who’s a co-author of The Self-Driven Child— Lenore: Love it
