Church is Messy

Rick Henderson and Svea Merry
  • 4.6 (19)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Weekly

Church is messy podcast recorded at Autumn Ridge Church in Rochester, MN

  1. 2d ago

    Church Is Messy: The End? - Heaven Is Not Enough

    What if heaven is not somewhere we escape to, but the place where God finally makes all things new? In the final conversation of The End? series, Rick and Svea unpack the biblical picture of heaven as a renewed creation—heaven coming to earth when Jesus returns. They talk about what happens when a follower of Jesus dies, why Scripture points toward resurrection and restoration rather than an eternal disembodied existence, and how that changes the way we imagine eternity. They also explore why so many Christians have inherited a picture of heaven that feels disconnected from the physical world, and why a more complete biblical vision gives greater meaning to the ordinary things we do now. Relationships, work, creativity, beauty, justice, care for creation, and service all matter because God cares about His creation and intends to restore it. Rick and Svea close by asking what this hope means for life today. We can grieve honestly without grieving hopelessly. We can trust that the work we do matters. And we can take eternity seriously—not by trying to predict when Jesus will return, but by trusting Him, following Him, and living now as citizens of the kingdom He promises to fully restore. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 Intro02:36 What happens when we die before Jesus returns — different views on the intermediate state ("soul sleep" vs. being with Christ immediately)05:25 Heaven isn't clouds and harps — debunking childhood misconceptions about eternity as endless choir practice07:01 The earth will be renewed, not discarded — the biblical case that heaven comes here, restoring the best of creation11:05 Four views of eschatology — Rick recaps historic premillennialism, amillennialism, postmillennialism, and dispensationalism14:22 Historical roots of a distorted view — how chattel slavery, Gnosticism, and the dispensationalist emphasis on destruction shaped the American church's "just go off to heaven" mindset18:21 What will we actually do in heaven? — feasting, work, creativity, building cities, gardening, and even hunting (plus whether we'll look like ourselves)22:25 Living now as citizens of heaven — why restoring creation matters now, not because we can bring heaven to earth, but because the love of Christ compels us24:58 The "now and not yet" — Rick's sports car analogy for why God prioritizes restoring people first, then creation28:55 Three practical takeaways — grieve honestly but not hopelessly, what you do matters, and take eternity seriously (choose Jesus)

  2. Sep 9

    Church Is Messy: The End? - What the Heaven?

    What are we really looking forward to when we think about heaven? Rick and Svea continue the conversation around The End? by focusing on heaven—not as an escape from this life, but as the fulfillment of our deepest longing to be with Jesus. They talk about why even the best things in this life eventually come to an end, why heaven is ultimately about who is there more than what the place is like, and how growing in our relationship with Jesus now can deepen our capacity to enjoy Him forever. The conversation also turns toward suffering and hope. The gospel doesn’t ask us to minimize pain, tidy up grief, or pretend difficult circumstances aren’t real. Instead, it allows us to face suffering honestly while remembering that suffering is not the final chapter. Sometimes Christian community means sitting with someone in the mess—and helping them see the shore when the fog is too thick for them to see it themselves. Rick and Svea close by exploring how we grow our delight in Jesus through knowing Him more deeply, practicing His presence, and living in meaningful relationships with others. In the process, they discover that the conversation naturally lands on Autumn Ridge’s framework for spiritual formation: knowledge, practices, and relationships. Topics discussed in this episode: 01:40 — Book recommendation: Revelation for the Rest of Us by Scott McKnight02:45 — What are you looking forward to? (Rick & Svea share personal answers)04:21 — Vacation grief and the weight of hope in temporary things06:36 — Sabbath rest, Joel Lawrence, and the rest we were made for07:41 — Jesus is the answer, not the place (heaven as being with Him)12:00 — Imagining a day with Jesus physically present13:57 — Will heaven be boring? Meaningful responsibility without toil17:07 — Suffering, escapism, and the gospel's honest approach to pain27:05 — How to grow your capacity for enjoying Jesus (spiritual practices, community, and the formation framework)

  3. Sep 2

    Church is Messy: The End? - Yeah, But When?

    Trying to figure out exactly when Jesus will return can be fascinating—but it can also distract us from the kind of people Jesus is calling us to become right now. In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea continue the conversation from Autumn Ridge’s series on the end times. They reflect on church cultures that emphasized decoding prophecy, predicting the rapture, and connecting current events to biblical timelines—and contrast that approach with a simpler question: What does it look like to live faithfully if we really believe Jesus is coming back? Rick and Svea discuss why people are drawn to certainty and secret knowledge, the recurring biblical pattern of self-rule, power, and control, and the danger of combining faith with pursuits of military, economic, cultural, national, or ethnic dominance. Instead, followers of Jesus are called to a very different way of life: motivated by the love of Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit, and lived out within the local church. They also explore how Christian community helps us face fear, suffering, and uncertainty. When life becomes difficult—or even when our worst-case scenario happens—we need people who can remind us what is true, encourage us, and sometimes even “loan” us their courage and faith. Ultimately, the church most prepared for Jesus’ return isn’t the church that has the timeline figured out. It’s the church that looks most like Jesus before he returns. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 — Intro and personal updates (Svea recording with strep throat)01:00 — Growing up in end-times prediction culture and family members trying to predict the rapture02:03 — Rick's youth group experiences: "rapture practice" and decoding Revelation as Apache helicopters03:25 — The human desire to predict the end: Gnosticism, secret knowledge, and conspiracy theories05:00 — Don't fight about end times — land wherever you land, but the result should be faithfulness, love, and encouragement08:25 — The wisdom of not knowing when Jesus returns (the "just-in-time husband" analogy with his wife's trip)10:52 — Recognizing patterns: the "golden circle" of self-rule, power/control, and military/economic/cultural might — with religion, nationalism, and ethnicity as superchargers15:11 — The church's golden circle: Christ's love (why), Spirit-filled life (how), local church community (what)18:32 — Perfect love casting out fear: how community diffuses fear, shame, and dread around end-times topics25:50 — "What if the worst happens?" — trusting Jesus remains King, and borrowing courage from church community

  4. Aug 26

    Church Is Messy: Returning King

    Church Is Messy is back for a new season! Rick and Svea begin with a few summer updates before turning to Autumn Ridge’s new message series, The End?—and why conversations about the return of Jesus should lead to preparation, not prediction. They explore several Christian perspectives on the end times, why fear and speculation have shaped so much modern thinking about the subject, and what Scripture actually calls followers of Jesus to do while we wait. Rather than obsessing over charts, dates, and decoding current events, Paul points Christians toward character, community, faith, love, encouragement, and readiness. Rick and Svea also discuss what genuine Christian community looks like when we move beyond convenience and programmed relationships. If our bonds as brothers and sisters in Christ are eternal, how might that change the way we invest in one another now? And what does it mean to “loan our strength” to someone who is weak simply by showing up and reminding them they aren’t alone? Ultimately, thinking seriously about the return of Jesus should help us become more like Jesus today. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 — Intro03:11 — Introduction to "The End?" series on end times and the church's approach04:10 — People's anxiety about end times teaching and the ominous series graphic05:15 — John Steer's quote: the return of Christ is for application, not speculation06:01 — Why Rick focused on community and character instead of predictions and charts07:11 — Paul's pastoral approach to the Thessalonians' fear of being left behind08:02 — "Nobody flies standby with Jesus" — living awake, clear-minded, and faithful15:16 — Community and convenience: how churches default to programming for the easiest demographics16:34 — The calorie-counting analogy: individuals and churches both battle the gravitational pull of convenience17:35 — Church bonds as more enduring than family bonds: brothers and sisters in Christ is forever19:50 — The story of a gay friend trying to follow Jesus and the lack of a vision for better community21:58 — What community looks like for singles, widows, and people in the pit — beyond scheduled programs23:18 — Practical steps: turning down convenience and turning up commitment to build each other up25:24 — The armor of faith and love: Paul's twist on military imagery in 1 Thessalonians 528:00 — Your biggest enemy is you: being at war with your own temptations and moral fragility29:20 — Rick's personal story of a fractured friendship and failing to put the other person's needs first31:32 — The lion that is a slain lamb: God flipping our expectations upside down32:24 — Flipping the church upside down: adults investing in kids week after week34:09 — Warning the idle, encouraging the disheartened, helping the weak — giving each person what they need35:32 — Closing vision: fostering beautiful, godly community that lasts for eternity

  5. Jun 10

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Leader Abuse

    In this season finale of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea reflect on the close of both the podcast season and Autumn Ridge’s long journey through 1 Corinthians. The conversation centers on 1 Corinthians 16 and Rick’s message about how churches relate to leaders—not as a grievance or self-serving topic, but as a willingness to talk honestly about what the text actually says.  Rick revisits four unhealthy mindsets that can shape how people respond to leaders: strongman Christianity, scoreboard Christianity, pep rally Christianity, and consumerism Christianity. He explains how these mindsets often grow out of fear, insecurity, tribalism, comparison, or the subtle desire to place ourselves at the center. A significant part of the episode focuses on the difference between looking to strong leaders for certainty and learning to trust Jesus with our circumstances. Rick and Svea also spend time unpacking consumerism in the church, especially how easy it is to recognize in others and how difficult it can be to see in ourselves. The conversation then turns toward practical ways to return to a grounded identity in Christ: being honest with ourselves, naming what is true out loud, bringing it to Jesus in prayer, and walking honestly with trusted people who love us and love Jesus. Rick and Svea also touch on submission, leadership, and trust—especially what it means to follow leaders in a broken world while keeping our ultimate allegiance to Jesus. The episode closes with a look ahead. Church Is Messy will take a short summer break and return in August alongside a new series called The End?, which will explore end times questions, where history is headed from a biblical perspective, and what Christians can expect about heaven. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 — Intro01:37 — Why Rick Chose to Preach on 1 Corinthians 1607:50 — The Four Dysfunctional Mindsets (Recap) 10:01 — Which Mindsets Are Most Dangerous Today15:58 — Deep Dive: Consumerism Christianity21:41 — Consumerism in Marriage & Relationships23:28 — The Antidotes: Grounding Identity in Christ27:37 — Submission to Leaders (Healthy & Unhealthy34:36 — Upcoming Break & Preview of Next Series

  6. Jun 3

    Church Is Messy: Psalm 58 - Wisdom in Wicked Psalms

    In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea reflect on Svea’s recent message from Psalm 58—one of the imprecatory psalms, where God’s people cry out for divine justice against evil and oppression. They talk about why passages like this can feel uncomfortable, violent, or hard to reconcile with Jesus’ command to love our enemies. Svea shares how studying Psalm 58 helped her recover a deeper appreciation for parts of Scripture many people tend to skip over. Rather than seeing these psalms as permission to seek revenge, Rick and Svea explore how they teach us to bring even our darkest, most honest thoughts and emotions to God. The conversation also touches on the difference between honesty and endorsement. The psalms give language for pain, anger, fear, and longing for justice—not so we can nurture revenge, but so we can surrender those desires to God. Rick and Svea discuss how Jesus fulfills these psalms through the cross, where mercy and justice meet, and how followers of Jesus are called to pursue what is right without taking vengeance into their own hands. Ultimately, this episode invites listeners to read difficult parts of the Bible with curiosity, humility, and trust—looking for Jesus even in passages that feel prickly, dark, or unsettling. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 — Intro01:58 — Backstory: How Svea Chose This Psalm05:29 — How to Read Difficult / "Prickly" Passages of Scripture13:49 — Honesty With God & the Value of Dark Psalms23:19 — Listener Question: How Are Imprecatory Psalms Fulfilled in Jesus?27:02 — Peter's Story Arc as a Picture of Transformation

  7. May 27

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Don't Flirt

    In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea continue the 1 Corinthians series by unpacking Paul’s teaching on idolatry, allegiance, wisdom, and life with people who do not share our faith. The conversation begins with a look at how modern idolatry often shows up less through statues and temples and more through the things we rely on for security, significance, and satisfaction. Rick and Svea discuss what it means to give Jesus our full allegiance—not as an accessory we reach for when life gets hard, but as Lord over every part of life. They also explore Paul’s practical instructions about eating food sacrificed to idols and what those instructions teach us today. Rather than living in fear of guilt by association, followers of Jesus are called to love people well, remain clear about their allegiance to Christ, and pursue wisdom in messy relational situations. Along the way, Rick and Svea talk about learning from the lives of others, the importance of wise counsel, the difference between avoiding compromise and avoiding people, and how Jesus was never afraid to be present with people others misunderstood or rejected. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 — Intro01:37 — Overview of the sermon's two parts04:07 — Learning from others' experiences (Paul's use of Israel's stories)08:01 — "Imitate me as I imitate Christ"09:57 — Total allegiance to Jesus vs. treating Him as an accessory11:43 — Modern idolatry: security, significance, and satisfaction14:32 — Meat sacrificed to idols — navigating the flowchart17:34 — Relational application: being with people in messy situations19:18 — "Avoid the appearance of evil" — does it apply here?22:39 — Guilt by association — Jesus as the model25:06 — A real-world question about what to do when a friend of another faith prays before a meal

  8. May 20

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Run to Win

    Rick and Svea reflect on Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 9 about running “in such a way as to get the prize,” exploring what it means to live with courage, focus, and love. They talk about how sharing faith doesn’t have to be driven by pressure, guilt, or argument, but can flow naturally from love for people and a desire to share what Jesus has done in our lives. Through stories about hunting, cross-cultural mission, ordinary acts of kindness, and the impact of kids ministry, they reframe “witness” as something deeply relational: noticing people, honoring them, moving at their pace, and sharing what we’ve experienced. They also offer a practical path forward: pray for someone by name, prepare by growing in confidence and skill, and participate with your church family in ways that help others see the love of God. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 – Intro03:17 – Self-awareness, introspection, and knowing your mission04:21 – Developing habits of courage and dealing with fatigue06:51 – Harvard study on love and human flourishing08:52 – Evangelism through invitation & relationship (1 Corinthians 9)13:13 – Overcoming anxiety and guilt around evangelism16:00 – What it means to be a "witness"18:14 – Story of Pastor Matthew Matai22:22 – Practical everyday evangelism — "there you are" vs. "here I am"24:17 – Pray, Prepare, Participate framework28:42 – Serving in kids ministry as a form of witness30:17 – Closing — "God's love often has human fingerprints"

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4.6
out of 5
19 Ratings

About

Church is messy podcast recorded at Autumn Ridge Church in Rochester, MN

Information

  • Creator
    Rick Henderson and Svea Merry
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    151
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2024 Rick Henderson
  • Show Website
    Church is Messy

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