It's a Numbers Game

Daniel Welling
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The MSP Finance Team Podcast "It's a Numbers Game" from the only financial management solution for MSPs in the UK, founded by former MSP-owners.

  1. 13h ago

    EP140 - Why MSP Security Needs to Be Simpler with Shaun Farrow of Arctic Wolf

    Dan speaks with Sean Farrow of Arctic Wolf about the fast-changing MSP cybersecurity landscape and Sean's move from a 15-year MSP career, most recently as security practice lead, to the vendor side. Sean explains how gaps in an MSP's Microsoft-based SOC portfolio led him to Arctic Wolf for vendor-agnostic coverage, and discusses the pressure of keeping pace with shifting best-of-breed tools and integrations. They explore MSP commercial realities such as packaging, pricing, margin predictability, and the need to reduce operational friction by delivering outcome-driven, true-positive tickets. Sean outlines Arctic Wolf's vendor-neutral approach and security concierge service, and previews a streamlined MSP-only offering expected around September that aims to simplify scoping, improve price competitiveness, reduce requirements like a mandated network sensor, and introduce more on-demand digital concierge capabilities, while still pulling data across the attack surface.   00:00 Welcome and Setup 02:03 Sean MSP Background 03:41 Keeping Up With Security 05:07 Why Move Vendor Side 06:19 Pricing Sponsor Break 08:33 Life at Arctic Wolf MSP 11:22 Arctic Wolf MSP Model 12:55 Streamlined Offering Changes 16:10 Posture Improvement Examples 19:52 Launch Plans and Wrap   Connect with Shaun Farrow on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaunfarrow/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    EP140 - Why MSP Security Needs to Be Simpler with Shaun Farrow of Arctic Wolf

  2. Aug 9

    EP139 – The MSP Joiner-Leaver Problem Nobody Talks About with Cristian Bogdan from CooperBox

    Cristian discusses how his MSP experience provisioning thousands of pandemic-era laptops exposed frequent mis-provisioned user accounts, often caused by clients submitting incomplete joiner requests (missing departments, licenses, and permissions). He highlights the larger risk on off-boarding, citing studies in the UK and USA where 50% of businesses reported former employees not being fully off-boarded, leaving residual access and ongoing licensing costs. Cristian describes a self-serve joiner/leaver platform designed to replace fragile ticket-based workflows with guided forms, integrations with HR platforms via APIs, a governance engine that validates requests against policies, an approval queue for final review, and tracking of what was provisioned to ensure consistent deprovisioning, including manual notes for non-SSO legacy apps. He explains MSP commercialisation options (embedded, add-on, hybrid), benefits for compliance evidence (e.g., ISO 2701), applicability to internal IT/co-managed environments, and notes the product was largely built using OpenAI Codex.   00:00 Welcome and Setup 00:24 MSP Origin Story 01:26 Joiner Provisioning Pain 02:36 Leavers and Residual Access 04:45 Automation and HR Integrations 08:03 Self-Serve Governance Workflow 09:41 Compliance Value and ROI 10:54 Pricing and Target Users 16:34 Governance Engine vs Scripts 18:18 AI Future and Readiness 20:19 Building with Codex 22:08 Wrap Up and Contact   Connect with Cristian Bogdan on LinkedIn by clicking here –https://www.linkedin.com/in/c-bogdan/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/   Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/     MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team   We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    EP139 – The MSP Joiner-Leaver Problem Nobody Talks About with Cristian Bogdan from CooperBox

  3. Jul 28

    EP138 – Can MSPs Really Buy and Sell Individual Clients with Matt Yesbeck from MSPX

    Matt discusses MSPX, a marketplace for MSPs to buy and sell individual managed services contracts as an alternative to acquiring entire businesses. The platform helps MSPs divest non-profitable or non-strategic clients and enables buyers to shorten sales cycles by targeting specific verticals or geographies, with typical pricing around 6–8x MRR (sometimes higher with negotiation and longer remaining terms). MSPX uses escrow, a structured 30-day transition dashboard, a legally drafted customer notification email with a novation agreement requiring the buyer to honour the existing MSA, and protections if a customer declines the transfer. Sellers complete a detailed intake form; buyers can ask questions via in-platform chat. Pricing includes $149/year membership, 7% seller commission, 1–2% escrow fee for buyers, and an optional $599/year "first look" tier. The main challenge is limited awareness due to bootstrapped marketing.   00:00 Welcome and Setup 00:36 MSPX Marketplace Explained 02:06 Why Sell Contracts 03:39 Pricing Multiples and Examples 06:22 Valuation and Risk Controls 09:19 End Client Consent and Escrow 13:48 Communication and Transition Playbook 18:34 Contract Intake and Buyer Due Diligence 20:32 Growth Challenges and Pricing Plans 25:00 Global Expansion Use Cases 28:26 Wrap Up and How to Join   Connect with Matt Yesbeck on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattyesbeck/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    EP138 – Can MSPs Really Buy and Sell Individual Clients with Matt Yesbeck from MSPX

  4. Jul 19

    EP137 - Why MSP Sales Decisions Aren't as Rational as You Think with Marino Vigliotti

    Marino joins the podcast to discuss decision-making psychology for MSPs, emphasising that B2B buying differs from B2C because decisions require justification to others and are shaped by different goals. He describes common friction caused by misalignment between what MSPs pitch as "gains" and what business owners perceive as "losses," highlighting loss aversion, status quo bias, and sunk cost effects (including attachment to existing tools and the implied threat of admitting past mistakes). Using a probability-and-reward example, he explains biases in cognitive decision-making and how statistics can be misread without context. The conversation covers how asking too many questions increases cognitive load, why multi-quote requests often signal weak differentiation of the MSP (not just price), and why prescriptive sales scripts can feel inauthentic; trust, fit, and practice through more conversations are stressed. Marino recommends Kahneman's "Thinking, Fast and Slow" and Phil Agnew's "Nudge"   00:00 Welcome and Topic Setup 01:13 B2B vs B2C Decisions 02:26 Client Utility and Friction 06:11 Cognitive Biases Explained 10:39 Loss Aversion and Framing 14:26 Status Quo and Sunk Costs 17:47 Winning Quotes and Differentiation 20:31 Qualification and Buyer Psychology 23:38 Cognitive Load in Sales 25:44 Authenticity and Bounded Rationality 29:21 Resources and Closing   Connect with Marino Vigliotti on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinovigliotti/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    EP137 - Why MSP Sales Decisions Aren't as Rational as You Think with Marino Vigliotti

  5. Jun 28

    EP136 – How I F'd Up Three Acquisitions: Lessons From Apple MSP M&A with Justin Esgar

    Justin returns to the podcast and discusses the challenges and lessons from acquiring three Apple-focused businesses since 2020 amid consolidation in the Apple consultant community and difficulty targeting Mac-using clients. He describes buying a small Iowa Apple consultancy with the seller kept on for business development, only to learn ownership doesn't equal sales skill and that ex-owners often clash as employees; the owner left after disputes, but clients were retained and served remotely. He then explains acquiring a Colorado Apple training company to build a B2C training channel, but it failed due to lack of focus, content upkeep, staff turnover, and the effort required to produce non-evergreen training. A larger Missouri consultancy/Apple authorised service provider acquisition brought clients and a strong team but also personality conflict and a payment-structure mistake that strained cash flow. Despite stress and missed pay-checks, Justin says the acquisitions ultimately improved finances, team quality, and growth, stressing the need for stronger financial position and deal-specific negotiation.   00:00 Welcome Back 01:15 M&A Episode Setup 02:06 Why Apple MSPs Consolidate 07:43 Three Acquisitions Overview 10:03 Deal One Iowa Lessons 12:02 Owner Clashes After Buyout 16:21 Deal Three Missouri Personality 18:25 Deal Two Training Misfire 27:37 Deal Structures Cash Flow Traps 32:50 Big Takeaways And Closing   Connect with Justin Esgar on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinesgar/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team

  6. Jun 14

    EP135 – How MSPs Can Get Paid Faster with Tom Pope

    Tom discusses Adfin as a "new, better GoCardless," arguing it offers stronger support, more competitive pricing, and a broader product: direct debits, cards (including Apple Pay/Google Pay), open banking, and bank transfers in one platform with integrated chasing and reconciliation via Xero. He says the market has lacked innovation for 15–20 years and positions Adfin's goal as getting businesses paid faster at lower cost through automation and AI-driven personalization (e.g., mandates and chasing from a user's own email domain). Adfin is UK-focused, accepts international card payments, and plans euro and USD bank transfers within six months. A key differentiator is an automated direct debit migration process that moves mandates from other providers in about five weeks without customer action beyond notification. The episode also covers VRP skepticism, configurable payment limits/rules, virtual accounts for automated bank transfer reconciliation, and optional surcharging for expensive business cards.   00:00 Are We The New GoCardless 00:42 Why Adfin Wins 02:03 Why Challenge The Incumbent 03:56 Startup Speed Vs Scale 05:16 Payments Platform Explained 05:58 International Payments Roadmap 07:07 Switching Without Risk 09:26 VRP And Open Banking Reality 13:14 MSP Workflow Examples In Xero 15:43 Chasing Emails And Payment Limits 17:47 High Value Bank Transfers 18:52 Apple Pay Fees And Surcharging 22:33 Wrap Up And How To Reach Adfin   Connect with Tom Pope on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-pope-979a4940/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

  7. May 31

    EP134 – The MSP M&A Landscape in 2026 with Paul Vanstone

    Paul joins the podcast to discuss MSP M&A trends and what 2026 may look like after years of consolidation driven by PE-backed platforms, self-funded acquirers, listed buyers, and newer permanent capital vehicles. He explains why the market has been attractive (fragmentation, cloud migration, cyber demand, COVID-driven working changes, inflation-led price increases) but notes the bar is rising for sellers amid economic headwinds, lower price rises, and AI-driven efficiency that may pressure support rates while also creating advisory opportunities and margin protection. Paul breaks down five buyer types, including Evergreen-style permanent capital that buys without heavy integration and offers supplier and group benefits. He advises sellers to plan early, clarify personal and business goals, avoid approaching everyone, optimise operations, and choose experienced M&A advisors and lawyers, with up-to-date financial and tax records.   00:00 Welcome and Setup 00:33 2026 MSP M&A Outlook 02:18 Market Drivers and Headwinds 06:01 Who the Buyers Are 09:26 Choosing the Right Exit Partner 12:42 Why Exit Planning Matters 14:49 Optimising for a Future Sale 18:14 Money Goals and Life Purpose 23:14 Building the Right Team 23:53 Picking Advisors and Process Timeline 28:57 Wrap Up and Contact Details   Connect with Paul Vanstone on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/cls946167290/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

  8. May 25

    EP133 – The Compliance Revenue You're Missing with Dom Haughton and Alastair Goodwin

    Adam Morris and Daniel Welling discuss how MSPs can offer compliance as a service to differentiate and create recurring, high-margin revenue, joined by Dom Haughton (Brigantia Partners) and Alastair Goodwin (Adoptech).  They explain that MSPs are increasingly asked by customers for certifications such as Cyber Essentials, ISO 27001, ISO 9001 and ISO 42001, but often avoid selling them due to perceived documentation burden and lack of in-house compliance expertise. Adoptech's guided, automated platform and "done-for-you" delivery model aim to shorten ISO 27001 delivery to 8–12 weeks and reduce costs versus traditional consultants, while enabling MSPs to wrap professional services around technical remediation identified through gap analysis. Partners report adding roughly 25–30% margin, with growing demand in regulated sectors and supply chains (e.g., legal, finance, automotive).   00:00 Compliance as a Service Intro                                                              01:32 Why MSPs Should Care 02:36 How MSPs Get Started 04:01 Market Awareness Today 05:37 Productising Compliance 07:09 Automation Removes Friction 08:20 Pricing Mindset Interlude 09:25 Delivery Models and Partnering 13:33 Margins and Upsell Opportunities 18:04 Selling Value and Positioning 23:22 Target Sectors and Demand 28:16 Is It Worth It at Small Scale 31:08 Wrap Up and Contact Details Connect with Dom Houghton on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/domhaughton/ Connect with Alastair Goodwin on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/alastair-goodwin-b165894/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    EP133 – The Compliance Revenue You're Missing with Dom Haughton and Alastair Goodwin
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About

The MSP Finance Team Podcast "It's a Numbers Game" from the only financial management solution for MSPs in the UK, founded by former MSP-owners.

Information

  • Creator
    Daniel Welling
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    140
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2022
  • Show Website
    It's a Numbers Game

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