The Westminster Tradition

The Westminster Tradition

Unpacking lessons for the public service, starting with the Robodebt Royal Commission. In 2019, after three years, Robodebt was found to be unlawful. The Royal Commission process found it was also immoral and wildly inaccurate.  Ultimately the Australian Government was forced to pay $1.8bn back to more than 470,000 Australians.  In this podcast we dive deep into public policy failures like Robodebt and the British Post Office scandal - how they start, why they're hard to stop, and the public service lessons we shouldn't forget.

  1. 1d ago

    🔥🤫 “A deal is a deal is a deal”: Operation Richmond, Part 2 🤫🔥

    In Part 1, a secret deal was struck in a hotel room and walked into Cabinet as a “UFU proposal”. In Part 2, the deal has to survive contact with everyone who wasn’t in the room. We start at the Fair Work Commission, where the “independent umpire” turns out to have far less power than everyone claimed, and where keeping Peter Marshall on side means 381 text messages in four months. We follow the secret through a minister’s resignation, a sacked CFA Board, a federal law change that kills the CFA agreement anyway, and two more years of pressure on the MFB Board, which is never told where the agreement came from. Along the way: what happens when a government caught between a union and its own statutory boards pushes on the side it can push, a letter of comfort that comforted nobody, and a lawyer dropped because “Peter was like literally losing his mind”. Then we land on IBAC’s verdict on Tony Bates and Chris Eccles, Danielle’s closing argument for the defence, and a genuine disagreement among us about whether IBAC was too harsh. Our conclusion: the most damaging thing wasn’t the original deal. It was a secret nobody went back to retest, which handed leverage to the one person outside government who knew the truth. As IBAC notes, some senior members of government even suspected Marshall had something over the Premier. Several of you asked what happened to the CFA agreement. It never went to a vote. CFA career firefighters stayed on their expired 2010 agreement until 1 July 2020, when they moved to the new Fire Rescue Victoria. It appears FRV still runs former CFA and MFB staff under different terms within a single interim agreement. 📄 IBAC, Operation Richmond special report, August 2026 Corrections: The federal government that amended the Fair Work Act to protect volunteers in August 2016 was the Turnbull government, not the Morrison government. Marshall’s April 2018 “the truth will come out” radio interview was about the MFB appointing a UK candidate as CEO, whom he called a union-buster. Fire Rescue Victoria didn’t exist until 2020, and the Canadian candidate was Marshall’s preferred pick. And Bates called the CFA “clowns” in three texts, not two. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.  'Til next time!

  2. Oct 12

    🔥🤝 “Handshake has occurred”: Operation Richmond, Part 1 🤝🔥

    In 2016, the Andrews government settled a bitter, years-long dispute with the firefighters’ union in a hotel room, then spent the next two years pretending it hadn’t. In August, Victoria’s anti-corruption commission IBAC tabled its special report on Operation Richmond. It made no findings of corrupt conduct and found no evidence for the blackmail allegation that started the investigation. But most of its 120 pages are about something else: what happens to public servants when a Premier wants a problem fixed, and fixed quietly. In Part 1 we follow Tony Bates, nine weeks into a Deputy Secretary job at DPC, as he’s told to keep it “very tight”. We cover the secret negotiations, the champagne photo, the staged handover of a “UFU proposal” that wasn’t really a union proposal, and the Cabinet submission written by the people who negotiated the deal. Along the way: why Victoria’s fire services had a governance problem before any of this startedwhat a 400-page log of claims looks likeTreasury being told to “facilitate agreement today not spear it”,and IBAC’s answer to the squish between serving the Premier and the Code of Conduct (“comply with both”). Is that answer any use in the room?Next time: the Fair Work Commission, the long tail, and who ends up holding the secret. 📄 IBAC, Operation Richmond special report, August 2026. Corrections: Women made up 2.9% of the CFA’s career firefighters (31 of 1,082), not 3.7% as we said on air. And Peter Marshall handed the “UFU proposal” to an advisor from the Premier’s office during his meeting with the Premier, not to the Premier himself. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.  'Til next time!

  3. Sep 28

    **Revisit** ☎️ The Hon Amanda Vanstone AO - Inside the Westminster Machine

    We are reliably informed that when this episode dropped a current Cabinet minister rang The Hon Amanda Vanstone and congratulated her. That’s a good enough reason for us to republish this during our hiatus! Note there’s also a follow up episode where we all chat about our takeaways from this episode.  **** Former Senator Amanda Vanstone offers a masterclass in ministerial leadership, delivering sharp insights from her 21-year political career that are as relevant today as they were during her time in Prime Minister Howard's Cabinet. Cutting through bureaucratic excuses with remarkable clarity, she reveals how effective ministers must take full responsibility while developing practical strategies to uncover what's really happening within their departments. Vanstone's approach to ministerial oversight was refreshingly direct—phoning junior staff who prepared briefs rather than accepting sanitized information from senior executives, making unannounced visits to government-funded programs, and consistently asking "how does that work?" until satisfied with the answers. "You get what you inspect, not what you expect," she notes, emphasizing that accountability requires hands-on leadership. Her frank discussion of major reforms like the creation of Centrelink highlights how structural change requires both political courage and practical problem-solving. When departments maintained separate offices but required them to be within walking distance, she asked the obvious question: "Why not put them together?" This common-sense approach characterized her leadership across Employment, Education, Justice and Immigration portfolios. What stands out most powerfully is Vanstone's perspective on ministerial responsibility. "That's why ministers sign on the bottom line. That's why you get paid," she asserts, rejecting excuses about inherited problems or departmental advice. Her experiences with Immigration Department failures—including the wrongful deportation of Australian citizen Vivian Alvarez—taught her that when you find one serious problem, you must look deeper: "When a mouse runs out of your fridge, you think that's a mouse. When the second one comes a week later, you bring the fridge out and clean it out." Ready for straight talk about how government really works? Listen now to learn why Amanda Vanstone believes we urgently need another National Commission of Audit and how effective ministers must balance scrutiny with support to get the best from public servants. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.  'Til next time!

    **Revisit** ☎️ The Hon Amanda Vanstone AO - Inside the Westminster Machine

  4. Sep 14

    **Revisit** 🏉 The Royal Commission we should have? The 2013 Essendon Football Club supplements scandal

    You might like to get in the mood for AFL footy finals by revisiting this first episode of our three part series on the Essendon Footy club drug scandal! Meanwhile we will keep enjoying our late winter / early spring hiatus 😇 **** “Lack of good governance is why good people did bad things at Essendon Football Club”. So says Lindsay Tanner, former Minister for Finance, and President of the Essendon Football Club from 2015. In this mini-series, Caroline tries to convince us there are lessons for public servants from the Essendon Football Club supplement scandal in 2013. In this episode, we talk about what happened at Essendon itself., including the dangers of charismatic new leaders, new brooms through an organisation, and a failure to take controls and risk management seriously. Referenced in this episode Ziggy Switkowski report into failures of governance at Essendon Football Club (May 2013)Dr Bruce Reid letter to Essendon Football Club about his concerns about the supplement regime (Jan 2012)Lindsay Tanner ‘Governance lessons from the Essendon scandal’The Long Haul podcast, Episode Two: Inside the Blackest DayIntro grab is Lindsay Tanner, Governance lessons from the Essendon scandal. Outro grab is Nathan Lovett-Murray and Emma Murray, The Long Haul podcast, Episode Two: Inside the Blackest Day. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.  'Til next time!

  5. Aug 31

    **Revisit** 🗳️ Election special 🗳️ Caretaker conventions, IGBs and some 🥳 vox pops 🥳

    In honour of forthcoming Victorian and NSW elections, we are republishing this episode during our late winter hiatus. Enjoy!! **** The starter's gun has gone on Australia's national elections for 2025 and Parliament has been prorogued. In this episode, former head of Cabinet Office and keeper of the Caretaker Conventions, Alison answers Caroline and Danielle's increasingly pointed questions, and we end with arguing about the importance of formatting. Stay tuned to the end for some fabulous insider advice for managing caretaker period and elections as a public servant.  This episode is dedicated to the significant birthday of Sandy Pitcher, a public service legend (read more about her here). Intro grab courtesy of the Hon Nat Cook MP, Minister for Human Services (SA). This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.  'Til next time!

  6. Aug 17

    🐊When the rains come: the gap between policy and delivery in remote Australia with Georgia Heath 🐊

    Danielle talks with Georgia Heath from Yup Yup Labs about what becomes obvious when you design services from far away, and why remote communities expose the hidden assumptions baked into policy, technology and “digital by default”. We also dig into who gets excluded when the public service recruits narrowly, and what changes when we treat people with lived experience as genuine partners with real power. Other topics include: • what remoteness reveals about telecommunications, emergencies and climate impacts • where telehealth helps and where it breaks, including dental care and wet season realities • what strong outreach models look like, including the Deadly Ears ear health approach • why older non-university pathways created real mobility and better service design • how class, schooling and workplace norms shape who gets into decision-making rooms • what happens when job services misread capability and drain confidence • how trauma-informed management, explicit rules and timely feedback lift performance • why plain English writing improves access, trust and policy outcomes. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.  'Til next time!

  7. Aug 3

    🧪🧮 We CAN test big policy ideas without slowing government down: Eleanor Williams from the Australian Centre for Evaluation 🧮🧪

    We talk with Eleanor Williams from the Australian Centre for Evaluation about making evaluation fast, rigorous, and genuinely useful for public service decisions. We move from a 40,000-person employment services RCT to the practical steps that make testing possible, then unpack why transparency and mixed methods matter when the stakes are high. Along the way we discuss: turning a mutual obligation debate into a 'fact question'  through a large three-arm randomised controlled trialwhy a null result can be a powerful policy signalthe enablers that make responsive RCTs feasible, from systems to leadership to ethics and consenthow ACE partners with departments through a hub-and-spoke model, secondments, and capability buildingplanning evaluation from day one using program logic and theory of changeseparating program cost from evaluation cost to make smarter investment decisionspublishing and normalising evidence through the ACE Evaluation Libraryusing developmental evaluation and test-and-learn without getting stuck refining measures foreverwhat decision makers value under time pressure, including “killer stats” plus narrative and qualitative insightimproving services with small, fast trials like pre-call SMS nudges at Services AustraliaMentioned in this episode: Australian Centre for EvaluationACE Evaluation Library, hosted on the Australian Policy ObservatoryThe Magenta BookAnthony Costello, The Social EdgeThis podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.  'Til next time!

  8. Jul 20

    The moment of maximum ignorance: evaluation in public policy part 2

    Three-quarters of government evaluations are commissioned to improve implementation. Two-thirds are commissioned for accountability. They're not the same thing, and building a system that serves both turns out to be harder than it looks. This episode is about the structural tension between backward-looking accountability — did we deliver what we promised? — and the forward-looking question of whether we're actually learning anything useful. Caroline argues the current measurement architecture is structurally bad at three things: it locks in categories at the moment of maximum ignorance, it treats evidence as binary when almost everything useful lives in the middle, and it has no way of capturing what you found out that you didn't know you were looking for. There's also a detour through lifts, chin hairs, tattoo-level decisions, and Marie-Antoinette's diningware. Referenced in the pod: The APS State of Evaluation report (2026) — the list of why government commissions evaluationsAndrew Greenway's article on Sir Olly Robbins and The Accountability ActAdam Kucharski's article Do we need more 'aluminium-standard' evidence?Inside the Box: How Constraints Make Us Better by David EpsteinTom Loosemore Universal Credit TWT episode This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.  'Til next time!

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About

Unpacking lessons for the public service, starting with the Robodebt Royal Commission. In 2019, after three years, Robodebt was found to be unlawful. The Royal Commission process found it was also immoral and wildly inaccurate.  Ultimately the Australian Government was forced to pay $1.8bn back to more than 470,000 Australians.  In this podcast we dive deep into public policy failures like Robodebt and the British Post Office scandal - how they start, why they're hard to stop, and the public service lessons we shouldn't forget.

Information

  • Creator
    The Westminster Tradition
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    86
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Westminster Tradition
  • Show Website
    The Westminster Tradition

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