My apologies for not getting this podcast out sooner. I found it hiding in my drafts. Thank you LC - Silence is Complicity, Laura A. Drury, ArleneMach, Honey Badger, Karma, and many others for tuning into my live video with Lisa Gonzalez! Join me for my next live video in the app. Transcript: Lisa: Hi, friends. How are you? I appreciate it. Yeah, I know. So we weren’t sure how many people were interested in jumping on, but we wanted to get together and kind of do a little bit of an impromptu ICE conversation because Jenn, thankfully, has been all over the place. She has talked to so many different people about a lot of the same things. And my dear friend frequently will say to me, I’ve been talking about the same thing for how many years? Five? Jenn: Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I’ve been doing this work for probably a decade now. But I mean, as far as like the talking points in this mass deportation and what I’ve been warning about, I would say since 2017, 2018. Lisa: Yeah. So, and you’re like, I don’t understand. I’ve been saying this over and over, but I’ve had the good fortune of being able to chat with Jenn Budd offline about a lot of different topics. And we kind of get into some additional topics that she has, I’ve noticed that she has not talked about. So I wanted to kind of pick her brain about that and For those of you that follow her, for those of you that don’t, she’s a rock star. She is the author of Against the Wall and ICE, What everyone needs to know. She is a former senior Border Patrol officer and now immigrants rights advocate, huge immigrants rights advocate, and also has been on the... The Emmy award-winning show, HBO Critical Incident, Death at the Border, in which her work was just an enormous part of being able to uncover what’s going on with some of these, what is the name of the department again, Jenn? Jenn: Critical Incident Teams, the cover-up teams. Lisa: Critical Incident Teams, yes. We’re just going to go ahead and get into it. One of the things I wanted to make sure people are aware of, I live in the state of Ohio. And so, TPS stands for Temporary Protected Status. TPS status has been revoked. Jenn, could you chat a bit about what that is? Tell people what that actually means. Jenn: TPS stands for Temporary Protected Status, and it’s a status that essentially allows the president at any given time. So when there’s an emergency, like the Ukrainian war started and stuff, you know, then they can issue a TPS and say, you know, those people, obviously, they can’t wait. So we’re going to get them in. And so it’s essentially like, They’re a pre-authorization, not necessarily asylum, but just temporary protective status, meaning you come through and they do still do the record checks and the vetting, but because of the situation that’s going on in your country, you don’t have to make a case for that. We understand what’s going on and then we’ll help you get to where you need to go. A lot of times there’s a little bit of refugee resettlement compensation that can help them and they’ll also place them in communities that will help them. Lisa: So to put it in perspective, we, the United States, granted that status to Haitians, however many, how that was four, five, what? Jenn: We’ve taken it off and on throughout the years. I don’t know how many it applied to and as far as the Haitians. Lisa: There were several hundred thousand that came through from my recollection. Well, so there’s an enormous, so I live in this stupid state where they were talking about, they’re eating the cats, they’re eating the dogs. That was my, yeah, that was my state. Nobody was eating cats and dogs, friends. Nobody was eating cats and dogs. They were lying. I’ve actually been to Springfield. One of my dear friends had a child that was going to a college in Springfield. And because they were such jerks about the way that they put that out there, they actually had to shut down school for over a week while the students went home because there was so much media that descended upon there so that they could see all the cats and dogs that people were not eating. So, there were roughly 15,000 Haitian immigrants that ended up in Springfield. And my understanding from some of the organizations that I’ve been in touch with in Ohio is also that kind of compounds the issue. There are 1,200 children over the last five years or so since they have this enormous population in Springfield that have been born in the United States. So they are American citizens. Can you, first of all, well, first let me say this. So I want everyone to know what’s happening. What’s happening is all of those people are now receiving letters from the government that says report to the ICE office in Cincinnati. So we don’t have the enormous, like we don’t have Camp East Montana in Ohio. But they said they want them to report to the ICE place, I believe in Cincinnati. Jenn: It’s probably the regional office. Lisa: Yeah. OK. And if they could be detained or they will be given ankle monitors like criminals and be monitored in that way. These are people who came here legally, came here the right way, were granted status. And they have the people of Springfield will tell you there’s all kinds of information out there about how they have contributed to the community. And it was kind of like on the downward spiral, but they have like infused the community with, you know, all kinds of commerce and they are working and doing great things there. And now they’re all going to be rolling around with ankle monitors. So, and 1200 children that are American citizens whose parents are apparently expected to just go back to Haiti. I have a friend who recently actually became an American citizen who is actually from Haiti and shared with me still just how absolutely incredibly dangerous it is over there and in Port-au-Prince because everything’s been overtaken by gangs and how dangerous, how terribly dangerous it is. Jenn, can you walk us through what, what is that? So what happens when you had, when you were an ICE officer for, or I’m sorry, it’s different. You were Border Patrol. Jenn: I was a Border Patrol agent. You were Border Patrol. I never met a Haitian as an agent. Lisa: Correct. Okay. You only dealt with predominantly Latin Americans. Jenn: Right. People crossing the border, down on the southern border. Lisa: Okay. So, however, either way, when you have a child that is born in the United States and the parent is allegedly no longer welcome here for whatever reason, have you ever dealt with TPS? When somebody’s status has been revoked and their child was here but they were expected to go back? Has that ever happened to you? Jenn: Well, I’ve dealt with people who were here and were undocumented, and maybe I apprehended them at a checkpoint - the interstate 8 checkpoint and their children were United States citizens. I talked about this in my book, because I would have told you that I never separated families. But then I remembered that one woman I took off a bus, and she begged me to not return her. And she said, you know, “I have a thirteen year old child. She was born here. She’s a United States citizen.” And I still send her back. And so the issue with TPS and if you have a United States citizen child, in the past when I was an agent in the 90s and early 2000s, they typically tried to work with the person and maintain their status because you could not legally deport a United States citizen. Right? Lisa: Okay. Talk about that. So if they had a child here, they tried to work with them back in the past. That was your experience. Jenn: That was my experience. I’m not saying that it was for everybody, certainly. If you were somebody who, if the parent had committed a very serious, egregious crime, they would be separated from their child anyhow and be put in prison for a certain amount of time. And then that child would end up in the custody of other relatives and so forth. So that sort of took care of it. Then if they got out of jail, then... and they were deported, likely the child stayed with… Get full access to Borderland Talk with Jenn Budd at jennbudd.substack.com/subscribe