Life After Ministry

Matt Davis
  • 5.0 (18)
  • Non-Profit
  • Updated Semiweekly

Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a Christian nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines. It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What now? What’s next? How do I redefine myself outside the ministry? How do I maintain my faith amidst this transition?” Welcome to the Life After Ministry Podcast. We’ve been there, navigating the complex journey from vocational ministry to a new chapter in our lives. We’ll explore stories of transformation, hear from those who’ve walked this path before, and provide practical strategies to turn your transition into transformation.

  1. 4d ago

    Leaving a Gift Or a Legacy? (featuring Anthony Barton)

    Anthony Barton was a successful business owner when a trust attorney asked what his family mission statement was - not his business one. That question pushed him beyond leaving a gift toward building a legacy, and within 90 days he and his family were serving in Swaziland. Cancer later clarified the shift. Anthony sold his company, entered seminary, and now coaches Christian entrepreneurs through Convene. In this conversation he shares frameworks for pausing and pivoting, caring for people as image-bearers, and looking for God's providence in disruption. 6. KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. A gift and a legacy aren't the same thing. Anthony's trajectory changed when he began thinking about what his family could build together for God rather than simply what he could someday leave behind. 2. God can use disruption to clarify calling. Anthony describes cancer as brutal, but also as a season that brought unusual clarity about where his life needed to go next. 3. You cannot pivot well if you never pause. Healthy leaders and organizations stop long enough to evaluate what is happening before they change direction. 4. People are not resources. Christian leadership should see people as individuals made in the image of God, not simply inputs for organizational productivity. 5. Providence may be the most important P. In business, ministry, transition, and suffering, Anthony keeps returning to one question: Where is God's providence in all that we do? 7. CHAPTER MARKERS 00:00 - Welcome Anthony Barton Matt introduces Anthony and begins with the major turning point in 2013. 00:47 - Gift or Legacy? A trust attorney asks Anthony a question that changes how he thinks about what he will leave his family. 07:59 - The Next Disruption: Cancer A cancer diagnosis reshapes Anthony's understanding of life, calling, and what he wants to build. 13:15 - Protect, Pause, and Pivot Anthony shares leadership priorities beyond profit and productivity, including pause and pivot. 23:17 - The Eight F's Diagnostic Anthony introduces a simple framework for understanding the people you lead beyond what they produce. 8. RESOURCES If you’re navigating a ministry transition, visit Ministry Transitions to explore resources or start a confidential conversation. To learn more about Anthony Barton and his work with Christian business leaders, visit Anthony Barton at Convene. You can also explore Convene. Resources: Ministry Transitions Anthony Barton at Convene Convene

    Leaving a Gift Or a Legacy? (featuring Anthony Barton)

  2. Sep 22

    Leading Through the Trust Jungle (featuring Rob McKenna)

    What happens when trust breaks inside a church, nonprofit, or leadership team? Dr. Rob McKenna explains why trust is more than a feeling, how leaders can rebuild it after failure, and why succession is really the transfer of trust. This conversation explores emotional maturity, candor, vulnerability, blind spots, competence, reliability, and the three questions every team member is asking: Do I matter? Are you telling me the truth? Do I belong here? Key TakeawaysTrust has identifiable drivers, including candor, competence, reliability, emotional maturity, and concern for others.Nearly half of employees experience their workplace as a “jungle of trust.”Competence matters, but competence alone does not make someone a trusted leader.Rebuilding trust requires responsibility, self-awareness, grace, and continual repair.Succession is more than transferring a role; it is transferring trust into a team and organizational culture.Leaders must create conditions where people can tell the truth and receive difficult feedback.Every team member is asking: Do I matter? Are you telling me the truth? Do I belong here?Chapter Markers00:00 – Succession as the transfer of trust 01:23 – Introducing Dr. Rob McKenna 02:15 – Why trust is difficult in ministry and nonprofit organizations 06:04 – The State of Trust at Work 08:34 – Signs that trust is missing 10:25 – Why competence alone is not enough 14:19 – What it means to be a whole leader 18:00 – Handling difficult conversations during transition 20:00 – Succession and the transfer of trust 24:51 – How leaders rebuild trust after failure 28:34 – Blind spots and meaningful change 32:44 – What individuals can do in a jungle of trust 35:57 – How organizations can begin rebuilding trust 39:00 – Closing thoughts and resources Visit MinistryTransitions.com if a leadership transition is exposing cracks in trust. To learn more about Dr. Rob McKenna’s work, Whole Leaders, Wild Trust, and WiLD Leaders’ tools, visit wildleaders.org.

    Leading Through the Trust Jungle (featuring Rob McKenna)

  3. Jul 21

    Holding Gratitude & Grief (featuring Dennis Atwood)

    Most ministry leaders expect to decide when they step away. Dennis Atwood never had that opportunity. After serving churches for nearly three decades, Dennis was diagnosed with early-onset Parkinson's disease. He quietly carried the diagnosis for years before the progression of the disease forced him to step away from the pastorate he loved.  In this deeply honest conversation, Dennis reflects on grief, identity, suffering, and why choosing gratitude isn't about denying pain but discovering God's faithfulness in the middle of it. Key TakeawaysUnexpected health challenges can reshape both ministry and identity.Grief is a natural part of leaving a calling you deeply love.Gratitude isn't the absence of suffering but a response to God's faithfulness within it.Ministry leaders need purpose beyond the title they hold.God often brings deep spiritual formation through seasons we would never choose.Chapter Markers00:00 Dennis' pastoral journey and ministry background 01:45 An early Parkinson's diagnosis changes everything 03:30 Why Dennis kept his diagnosis private for years 07:45 Telling the church and preparing for transition 11:00 Missing ministry more than expected 13:15 Becoming a caregiver and navigating family transition 14:30 Holy discontent and living with purpose 16:20 Choosing gratitude through suffering 20:00 The dark night of the soul and spiritual formation 25:30 Encouragement for leaders whose ministry ended unexpectedly If you're facing a ministry transition or unexpected life change, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Dennis and his book Choosing Gratitude at Market Square Books.

    Holding Gratitude & Grief (featuring Dennis Atwood)

  4. Jul 14

    When Home Becomes the Mission Field (featuring Nate & Brittany Bruns)

    Missionaries spend years preparing to go to the field, but few are prepared for what it feels like to come home. After serving six years in Germany, Nate and Brittany Bruns share the unexpected challenges of returning to the United States, navigating reverse culture shock, raising third-culture kids, and rebuilding community. Ultimately, they discovered God was calling them to live as missionaries in their own country.  Their story offers practical encouragement for missionaries, churches, and anyone walking through an unexpected ministry transition. Key TakeawaysReverse culture shock can be more difficult than moving overseas.Missionary transitions affect spouses, children, and the entire family.God often prepares leaders for future seasons long before they understand why.Returning missionaries bring valuable wisdom that can strengthen the local church.Waiting on God is an active posture of trust, not passive inactivity.Chapter Markers00:00 Job loss, the desert season, and God's unexpected call to Germany 04:30 Reaching a post-Christian culture through relationships 07:15 When God said it was time to come home 11:15 Reverse culture shock and becoming strangers in your own country 16:00 Helping third-culture kids navigate transition 20:15 How churches can better care for returning missionaries 23:30 What America can learn from post-Christian Europe 26:45 Financial transitions and rebuilding support 30:00 Waiting on God and discerning what's next 34:00 The Bruns Tribe and engaging the spiritually disengaged 36:30 Encouragement for missionaries in transition If you're navigating a ministry transition, we'd love to help. Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Nate and Brittany's ministry at The Bruns Tribe.

    When Home Becomes the Mission Field (featuring Nate & Brittany Bruns)

  5. Jul 7

    Ministry, Mercy & Moving Forward (featuring Scott Sauls)

    Few ministry leaders expect the end of their pastoral chapter to unfold differently than they imagined. Yet for many, transition arrives carrying both grief and unexpected opportunity. In this honest conversation, Scott Sauls reflects on stepping away after more than 30 years of pastoral ministry, processing the loss of a role he loved, recovering from work addiction, and discovering a new calling shepherding high-capacity leaders.  Along the way, he offers wisdom about identity, friendship, reconciliation, and trusting God when the future feels uncertain. Key Takeaways Ministry transitions often bring grief and relief at the same time. Work addiction can quietly shape a leader's identity and relationships. Healthy transitions begin with embracing who you are apart from your role. Every leader needs authentic friendships, not just professional relationships. The gospel calls us to love across differences, especially when it's difficult. Chapter Markers 00:00 Scott's ministry journey and pastoral background 02:20 An unexpected transition from pastoral ministry 05:00 Grief, relief, and leaving a church you love 07:00 Confronting work addiction through recovery 09:30 Is Scott still a pastor? 11:00 The birth of the Sycamore Community 16:30 Shepherding leaders outside the local church 18:30 The impact of ministry transitions on spouses and families 21:00 Loving across the lines of difference 27:00 The Mercy King and God's relentless love If you're navigating a ministry transition, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Scott's work at Scott Sauls.

  6. Jun 30

    Healthy Pastors Plan Healthy Exits (featuring Keith Spurgin)

    Founder transitions are some of the most difficult moments in ministry leadership, but they don't have to end poorly. After leading the church he planted for 27 years, Keith Spurgin shares the lessons he learned about succession, feedback, sabbaticals, and letting go with confidence.  He also reflects on the leadership mistakes he nearly made during COVID and how stepping away for a year ultimately prepared both him and his church for a healthy transition. Key Takeaways Healthy succession planning begins years before the transition. Founder transitions often succeed when leadership is shared rather than concentrated in one successor. Sabbaticals create space for leaders to rediscover who they are apart from their role. Feedback reveals blind spots that leaders cannot see on their own. Legacy is built by preparing others to succeed after you're gone. Chapter Markers 00:00 Introduction and Keith's ministry journey 00:45 Nearly derailing a succession plan during COVID 01:45 Why handing leadership to a team changed everything 06:45 Building trust before succession 07:45 Why Keith stayed away for six months after stepping down 09:00 Lessons from an unexpected year-long sabbatical 15:20 Why every leader needs honest feedback 18:15 Processing life after ministry 24:00 The Growth Resourcing Group 26:00 Unknown: Finding Connection in a Disconnected World 27:30 Why Keith's next book is about finishing well Preparing for a leadership transition? Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Keith's leadership resources at Keith Spurgin.

  7. Jun 23

    Finding Ministry at Home Depot (featuring Steve Cummings)

    Many leaders secretly believe their value comes from what they do. But what happens when the title disappears, the ministry ends, or life takes a turn you never expected? In this deeply personal conversation, Steve Cummings shares his journey through ministry leadership, addiction recovery, job loss, financial uncertainty, and ultimately discovering a deeper identity as a beloved son of God.  From sitting in rehab at age 55 to working at Home Depot and eventually launching Bringing Kingdom, Steve offers hope for anyone learning to trust God in a season they never planned for. Key Takeaways Your identity is not determined by your title, income, or position. Hidden struggles become more dangerous when they remain isolated. Recovery begins when honesty replaces shame. God often uses seasons of transition to reveal deeper truths about who we are. Ministry is not confined to a church building or nonprofit organization. Chapter Markers 00:00 Friendship, ministry history, and Steve's background 01:30 Seminary, missed opportunities, and unexpected career turns 03:45 Building a career in nonprofit ministry 06:00 Hidden struggles, addiction, and personal collapse 08:00 Rehab, recovery, and discovering the deeper issues 11:00 Losing a ministry position and starting over 12:30 Working at Home Depot and confronting identity 16:00 Launching Bringing Kingdom 21:30 The Father Eclipse and understanding father wounds 28:00 Helping men discover their identity 31:30 Financial uncertainty, faith, and trusting God's provision 40:30 Is there life after ministry? If you're navigating a leadership transition or difficult season, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Steve's ministry at Bringing Kingdom.

  8. Jun 16

    Hope Is Within Reach (featuring Gary Blackard)

    Most leaders know succession planning matters. Far fewer know how to start the conversation. In this episode, Gary Blackard, President and CEO of Adult & Teen Challenge USA, shares lessons from leading a national ministry, navigating leadership transitions, and helping people find hope in the midst of life's most difficult challenges. From succession planning and organizational stewardship to addiction recovery and spiritual formation, Gary offers practical wisdom for leaders who want their influence to outlast their tenure. Key Takeaways Succession planning is an act of stewardship, not a signal that leadership is ending. Leaders often avoid succession conversations because of fear, identity, or lack of self-awareness. Hope is a critical ingredient in personal transformation and lasting change. Healthy leadership begins with a strong private relationship with God. Legacy is protected when leaders intentionally prepare others to carry the mission forward. Chapter Markers 00:00 Introduction and Gary's leadership journey 01:30 Transitioning into Adult & Teen Challenge leadership 04:20 The history and mission of Adult & Teen Challenge 09:40 Ministry leaders, addiction, and the importance of the private altar 12:00 Spiritual disciplines that sustain healthy leadership 15:20 Why hope matters during seasons of change 18:30 Facing the succession elephant 21:30 Why leaders avoid succession planning 27:00 Building a lasting leadership legacy 33:40 The Hope Within Reach podcast and helping families navigate addiction 37:00 Final thoughts and encouragement Navigating a leadership transition or preparing for succession? Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Listen to Hope Within Reach and learn more about Adult & Teen Challenge at Adult & Teen Challenge USA

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About

Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a Christian nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines. It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What now? What’s next? How do I redefine myself outside the ministry? How do I maintain my faith amidst this transition?” Welcome to the Life After Ministry Podcast. We’ve been there, navigating the complex journey from vocational ministry to a new chapter in our lives. We’ll explore stories of transformation, hear from those who’ve walked this path before, and provide practical strategies to turn your transition into transformation.

Information

  • Creator
    Matt Davis
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    99
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Matt Davis
  • Show Website
    Life After Ministry

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