The Non-Billable Podcast

Non-Billable

The Non-Billable Podcast takes UK legal professionals beyond the billable hour, bringing you interviews with top lawyers, law firm leaders, industry experts and legal tech innovators to uncover actionable insights on the business of law, career growth and the future of the industry. Hosted by Oliver Attinger, a former finance lawyer at a leading City law firm, and brought to you by Non-Billable, the legal media platform for City lawyers, in-house counsel, and legal professionals.

  1. Inside Lawfront: The PE-backed law firm group betting big on consolidation

    5D AGO

    Inside Lawfront: The PE-backed law firm group betting big on consolidation

    Axel Koelsch, COO of private equity-backed legal group Lawfront, joins the podcast to discuss how outside investment is reshaping the UK legal market and why he believes consolidation is still in its early stages. Koelsch explains how Lawfront’s model works in practice, why the group allows firms to retain their brands and leadership teams, and how central investment in areas like technology, operations and business services is becoming increasingly important as law firms face growing competitive pressure. The conversation also explores what lawyers often misunderstand about private equity, the operational lessons Koelsch brought from senior roles at firms including Freshfields and Addleshaw Goddard, and why the traditional partnership model can struggle to move quickly enough in a rapidly changing market. Finally, Koelsch discusses the future of the sector, including AI, scale, talent and why he expects further consolidation across both the regional and commercial law firm markets in the years ahead. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters 00:01 Introduction 01:30 Axel’s journey from lawyer to law firm COO 03:25 Applying consultant-style strategy inside major law firms 07:18 Why Axel joined Lawfront 10:38 Inside Lawfront’s “national scale for regional leaders” model 14:31 How Lawfront integrates firms without losing culture 20:08 The Lawfront growth playbook: recruitment, pricing and EBITDA 22:25 Why equity partnership is becoming less attractive to lawyers 27:46 Why Axel believes consolidation in UK law is inevitable About Non-Billable Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech. Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

    35 min
  2. How private equity is changing the legal market in Sweden

    MAY 12

    How private equity is changing the legal market in Sweden

    In this episode, Maria-Pia Hope - former managing partner of top Swedish law firm Vinge and now CEO of private equity-backed legal group AGRD - explains why she believes the legal market is entering a “paradigm shift” driven by AI, technology and changing client expectations. Backed by Nordic PE firm Axcel, AGRD has already brought together eight Swedish commercial firms and is now one of the country’s largest legal groups. Maria-Pia discusses how the model works in practice, with firms retaining their own brands, clients and day-to-day independence while pooling resources around AI, technology and central functions. The aim, she says, is to help entrepreneurial firms embrace industry change without losing their culture or identity, while also benefiting from faster decision-making and longer-term investment horizons. The conversation also explores how private equity’s role in legal is evolving, with Maria-Pia arguing that modern investors bring expertise, operational support and strategic thinking rather than simply focusing on cost-cutting. She also discusses AGRD’s plans to expand further across the Nordics and eventually into the UK market, where the group sees significant opportunity. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters 00:01 Introduction 01:30 Leading Sweden’s top law firm Vinge 03:50 Why Maria-Pia joined private equity-backed AGRD 06:07 Building a group of entrepreneurial commercial law firms 08:38 The “Nordic governance model” and preserving firm independence 11:15 AGRD’s AI and technology strategy 13:00 How private equity-backed law firms operate day-to-day 18:00 Leaving the Swedish Bar Association to take PE investment 19:50 AGRD’s UK expansion plans and the future of legal consolidation About Non-Billable Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech. Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

    29 min
  3. The private wealth opportunity behind Taylor Wessing’s US merger

    MAY 6

    The private wealth opportunity behind Taylor Wessing’s US merger

    Today, we unpack the private wealth angle of Taylor Wessing’s merger with Winston & Strawn. Partners Gabriel Estevez and Nick Warr explain how the firm defines private wealth as a holistic, multi-service offering built around high net worth individuals and families, rather than a narrow private client practice. They discuss how the market has evolved, with clients becoming more international and more sophisticated in how they structure and invest their wealth. Today, the vast majority of clients operate across multiple jurisdictions, and the rise of second and third-generation wealth is driving a more institutional approach to decision-making. The conversation also touches on the migration of wealth out of the UK, with hubs like Milan and Dubai gaining traction. While recent tax changes have accelerated the trend, the shift has been underway for years - and for globally positioned firms, it often creates more complex, cross-border work. Finally, they look ahead to the Winston Taylor combination, with private wealth set to be a core pillar of the new firm. The ambition is to build a genuinely integrated US-UK offering - something the market has so far struggled to deliver at scale. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters 00:01 Introduction 01:30 Private wealth vs private client: what’s the difference? 02:54 How the private wealth market has evolved 04:37 The rise of international, mobile wealth 06:27 Are high net worth individuals really leaving the UK? 09:32 What private wealth lawyers actually do day-to-day 14:10 How Taylor Wessing positions its private wealth practice 20:10 Winning clients in a relationship-driven market 23:48 What the Winston Taylor merger means for private wealth About Non-Billable Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech. Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

    30 min
  4. A psychologist on why lawyers burn out

    APR 28

    A psychologist on why lawyers burn out

    In this episode, Dr Catherine Sykes, a psychologist and coach who works with City lawyers, explains why burnout is so common among high-performing professionals, and why it’s often misunderstood. Drawing on decades of experience, she argues burnout is not simply about long hours, but “constant effort without psychological returns with no end in sight,” where meaning, satisfaction and growth are missing from the work. The conversation explores the psychology of lawyers, particularly the role of perfectionism. Sykes also breaks down the early warning signs of burnout and why the instinctive response to “work harder” can make things worse. Instead, she argues that recovery often requires stepping back and in some cases seeking out new challenges to break out of unfulfilling work patterns. The episode also dives into imposter syndrome. Her core message is that sustainable performance comes from shifting away from perfectionism towards high standards, building self-trust and ensuring work delivers meaningful psychological returns. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters 00:01 Introduction 02:35 From academia to coaching: specialising in burnout 04:37 The psychology of high-performing lawyers 07:12 What burnout actually is (and isn’t) 10:44 Early warning signs and what to do first 13:48 Breaking the burnout cycle and finding balance 16:28 Imposter syndrome explained 21:19 Perfectionism vs high performance 24:30 What peak performance really looks like About Non-Billable Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech. Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

    27 min
  5. The rise of the $30m law firm partner: Inside the US Big Law market

    APR 14

    The rise of the $30m law firm partner: Inside the US Big Law market

    In this episode, David Nicol, headhunter and co-head of Marsden’s US practice, breaks down the structure of the US legal market and how it has evolved over the past decade. From the dominance of New York as the global dealmaking hub to the distinct identities of markets like California, Texas and Chicago, he explains why the US is far more complex and fragmented than many outside it assume. The conversation explores the rise of firms like Kirkland & Ellis and Latham & Watkins, and how they have reshaped the traditional hierarchy once dominated by Wall Street white shoe firms. We also get into the economics of the top end of the market, including partner pay, the realities of the lateral market and what it takes to attract and retain elite rainmakers. Nicol explains why compensation structures, client demands and platform capabilities all play a role in driving partner moves. Finally, the discussion looks ahead to what could shape the next phase of the US legal market, from the continued growth of private capital and restructuring work to the potential impact of AI on law firm economics and structure. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters 00:01 Introduction 02:40 Understanding the US legal market structure 04:39 Why New York still dominates global Big Law 07:07 California, Texas and the rise of regional powerhouses 12:30 Boston, Chicago and DC: key secondary markets 16:33 Magic Circle firms in the US: what’s working and what’s not 23:07 Partner pay and the $30M rainmaker reality 28:19 Lateral moves, Wachtell and shifting firm models 32:02 Kirkland, AI and what comes next for Big Law About Non-Billable Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech. Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

    38 min
  6. How to drive change inside a global law firm: White & Case innovation chief Isabel Parker

    APR 7

    How to drive change inside a global law firm: White & Case innovation chief Isabel Parker

    Isabel Parker, chief innovation officer at White & Case, joins the podcast to talk about what it takes to drive innovation inside a global law firm. A former Freshfields lawyer and Deloitte partner, she shares how her career evolved from practice into leading transformation at one of the world’s largest firms. She explains why innovation isn’t just about technology, even in the age of AI. The real challenge, she says, is time and mindset - getting lawyers to see tools like AI as part of their core role, not something delivered by a separate team. Her goal is to shift ownership of innovation to lawyers themselves. We also get into White & Case’s AI strategy, including the build of its in-house platform Atlas and its broader approach. Parker makes the case for developing internal capability alongside adopting best-in-class tools, particularly in such a fast-moving market. Finally, she shares her views on what will actually differentiate firms going forward - not the tools themselves, but how quickly firms can upskill their people and make better use of their data. And for individual lawyers, the key skill is simple: disciplined curiosity. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters 00:01 Introduction 02:30 From Freshfields lawyer to innovation leader 04:37 Lessons from Deloitte and working closer to clients 06:39 What a Chief Innovation Officer actually does 08:59 Why time and mindset are the biggest barriers to innovation 11:56 Culture, experimentation and the lawyer mindset 14:59 White & Case’s AI strategy and building Atlas 17:56 Build vs buy vs partner: making the right AI bets 23:51 What will differentiate law firms in the AI era About Non-Billable Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech. Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

    28 min
  7. How Broadfield is rethinking the mid-market law firm model

    MAR 31

    How Broadfield is rethinking the mid-market law firm model

    John Hutchinson, managing partner of top 100 law firm Broadfield, joins the podcast to discuss the firm’s transformation from BDB Pitmans into a tech-enabled, internationally focused mid-market player. He explains the thinking behind the rebrand and the partnership with SHP, a subsidiary of Alvarez & Marsal, designed to support investment in technology, talent and global expansion. He outlines how that relationship works in practice, with Broadfield remaining independent but gaining access to infrastructure, strategic insight and tools like Harvey. The goal is to build a more integrated, end-to-end platform for delivering legal services, while improving efficiency and client value. Hutchinson also shares his perspective on private equity in law, arguing it works for some firms but isn’t the only model. Broadfield is instead focused on long-term growth, international reach and more "sensible pricing", moving beyond simply increasing hourly rates. Looking ahead, the firm is targeting expansion across Europe and the the Middle East, with a focus on private capital and cross-border work. Hutchinson says success in today’s market will come down to combining technology, talent and a clear value proposition for clients. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters 00:01 Introduction 02:40 From BDB Pitmans to Broadfield: the rebrand and strategy shift 06:18 The Alvarez & Marsal connection and tech-driven model 09:55 Private equity in law firms: opportunity and limits 14:12 Building an international platform: US, Hong Kong and beyond 17:43 The mid-market squeeze and rethinking pricing models 22:09 AI, Harvey and the impact on law firm economics 24:21 Leadership, culture and managing rapid change 27:25 Hiring strategy and attracting the next generation of partners About Non-Billable Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech. Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

    29 min
  8. How AI-powered Lawhive plans to build a global consumer law firm

    MAR 24

    How AI-powered Lawhive plans to build a global consumer law firm

    Pierre Proner is the CEO and co-founder of Lawhive. He joins the podcast to explain how his company is combining AI with a regulated law firm model to rethink consumer legal services. He shares how Lawhive pivoted from initially offering software to law firms, driven by a mission to improve access to legal help and reduce the inefficiencies in how consumer law is delivered. He discusses why selling software to traditional firms only went so far, with resistance tied to billable hours and legacy models. That led Lawhive to become a law firm itself, building an end-to-end AI operating system that supports everything from client intake to drafting and back-office work, with lawyers staying firmly “in the loop”. The episode also breaks down how the model works across markets. In the UK, Lawhive uses a consultancy-style platform, while in the US it operates through an Arizona ABS and a co-counsel network. Proner says the tech can significantly increase lawyer productivity and earnings by reducing non-billable work. Finally, he talks about growth. With over $100 million raised, Lawhive is now focused on scaling in the US through expansion and acquisitions, aiming to build a global consumer law firm powered by AI. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters 00:01 Introduction 01:20 From fintech to legal tech: the origin of Lawhive 03:41 Building an AI operating system for consumer law 06:19 Why selling software to law firms wasn’t enough 07:47 Becoming a regulated law firm and changing the model 10:03 Inside the Lawhive platform: AI across the full workflow 13:05 Productivity gains, margins and lawyer economics 17:05 UK vs US: consultancy model and co-counsel expansion 21:06 Funding, US growth and the ambition to build a global consumer law firm About Non-Billable Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech. Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

    32 min
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About

The Non-Billable Podcast takes UK legal professionals beyond the billable hour, bringing you interviews with top lawyers, law firm leaders, industry experts and legal tech innovators to uncover actionable insights on the business of law, career growth and the future of the industry. Hosted by Oliver Attinger, a former finance lawyer at a leading City law firm, and brought to you by Non-Billable, the legal media platform for City lawyers, in-house counsel, and legal professionals.

Information

  • Creator
    Non-Billable
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    50
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Non-Billable
  • Show Website
    The Non-Billable Podcast

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