We Made This Political Podcast

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall
  • 5.0 (6)
  • Society & Culture
  • Updated Weekly

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum talk together and with guests about what political science, psychology, and parenting has taught them about making politics better for everyone. wemadethispolitical.substack.com

  1. Ep. 54: Nathan Smolensky on Independent Voters and Finding Common Ground

    1d ago

    Ep. 54: Nathan Smolensky on Independent Voters and Finding Common Ground

    On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Nate Smolensky, a strategist for independent candidates and author of Common Ground From the Ground Up, about why independent identification is rising (about 45% and growing) and what people want from politics: less pessimism, more authenticity, problem-solving, and respectful engagement. Smolensky distinguishes independents as candidates and voters not beholden to either major party and argues the parties optimize for base-driven, alienating messaging—accelerated since 1994 and amplified by social media—while blocking competition through spoiler narratives. He highlights several independent campaigns polling competitively and explains “second option” strategies in one-party strongholds. The conversation also explores existential fear politics, voter empowerment, and Smolensky’s “collaborative discourse” approach—moving from win-lose argument to learning, “yes-and” additive conversations, and policy discussions that incorporate multiple perspectives. 00:00 Independents Can Break Gridlock 00:19 Meet the Hosts and Nate 01:54 Why So Many Independents 02:20 Authenticity Over Policy 04:28 What Independent Really Means 07:17 Representation Gap and Median Voter 09:15 Parties Cater to the Base 11:28 Politics as Market Segmentation 14:15 How the Strategy Took Hold 17:09 Independent Candidates Rising 20:00 Spoiler Effect and Vote Shaming 28:08 Existential Threat Messaging 32:43 Independents as Fulcrum 34:27 Earn My Vote Messaging 37:20 Collaborative Discourse Explained 40:24 Stop Trying to Convert 45:20 Zero Sum vs Additive 51:42 Yes And Policy Thinking 55:48 Moral Beliefs vs Policy 58:06 Hope and Where to Find 01:00:22 Closing Thanks and Outro Resources * Nate’s book Finding Common Ground This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

    1h 2m
  2. Ep. 53: Ben Appel on Gender Heresy and Belonging

    Jun 1

    Ep. 53: Ben Appel on Gender Heresy and Belonging

    On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with writer Ben Appel about his memoir Cis White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic and how identity, group loyalty, and the need for belonging shape belief and punish dissent. Appel describes returning to school at Columbia at 33 after a career in hairdressing and personal struggles, and how campus culture, critical theory, and political sloganeering pushed him to question reductive binaries, self-censorship, and seeing government as good only when it serves “my side.” The conversation covers polarization, the lack of ideological viewpoint diversity in education, pressures to conform, debates within gay communities such as marriage equality, and concerns about medicalizing gender-nonconforming youth and the difficulties faced by detransitioners. Appel finds hope in stepping back from social media, connecting with people, and focusing on everyday respect and curiosity, including talking to Trump voters as fellow human beings. 00:00 Talk to Trump Voters 00:19 Meet Ben Appel 01:53 Why Write Cis White Gay 06:57 Parroting Politics 13:14 Life Experience at Columbia 19:23 Starved for Viewpoints 23:23 Critical Theory as Dogma 25:40 Binary Thinking and Trump 31:54 Language Policing in Academia 36:09 Identity Buckets Debate 37:40 Growing Up Effeminate 40:42 From Inclusion to Medicalization 44:15 Critical Theory Distraction 50:22 Performing Identity Wrong 52:40 Gay Marriage Clash 01:03:18 Detransitioners Aftercare Gap 01:07:09 Finding Hope Offline 01:15:05 Wrap Up and Credits Resources Ben’s Substack Ben Appel’s Newsletter Ben’s book, Cis White Gay This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

    1h 16m
  3. Ep. 52: Corey Nathan on Religion, Politics, and Living Together

    May 26

    Ep. 52: Corey Nathan on Religion, Politics, and Living Together

    Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political live with guest Corey Nathan, host of Talking Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other, to discuss how to disagree without dehumanizing. Corey shares his shifts from an observant Jewish upbringing to becoming a born-again Christian, how family and church conflicts shaped his commitment to healthier civic conversation, and his critique of American evangelicalism as tied to colonialism and power. Lauren describes her complex religious background and conversion to Catholicism, emphasizing perspective shifting, resisting silos, and distinguishing toleration from relativism. Lura, Lauren, and Corey explore curiosity as a practice, fear and existential framing as drivers of polarization, when firm boundaries and pushback are necessary (especially against leaders harming vulnerable groups), and why civic renewal efforts and everyday people still give them hope. 00:00 Meet the Hosts 00:56 Introducing Corey Nathan 02:30 Corey’s Faith and Politics Shift 06:43 Lauren’s Interfaith Upbringing 10:19 Why Lauren Became Catholic 13:03 Evangelicalism and Empire Critique 18:34 Earning Worth vs Grace 20:36 Repairing the World Together 23:51 Holding Tension Not Binaries 28:26 Weaponized Faith in Politics 30:37 Keep Reading the Scripture 34:20 No Neat Answers 35:13 Pets and Polarization 35:59 Jesus and the Pharisees 37:39 Curious Over Furious 40:30 Cultivating Curiosity 42:17 Grace and One Degree 45:06 When to Push Back 50:16 Fear Shuts Down Dialogue 55:03 Most People Are Nuanced 56:51 Hope and Civic Renewal 01:00:42 Where to Find Corey 01:01:34 Closing and Credits Resources Find Corey on Substack here. Find his podcast Talkin’ Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other here. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

    1h 3m
  4. Ep. 50: Leah Sargent on the Dignity of Dependence

    May 19

    Ep. 50: Leah Sargent on the Dignity of Dependence

    Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview writer and essayist Leah Sargent about her book The Dignity of Dependence, arguing that dependence is a normal, dignified part of human life rather than an interruption to flourishing, and that a false ideal of autonomy undermines a just society. They discuss how prosperity and medical buffering foster illusory control, American frontier individualism, and rights language that downplays duties, while emphasizing that people often fear depending on others more than being depended upon, citing suicide and euthanasia motivations. The conversation explores asymmetry in relationships, gratitude, and responding to help without denying burden, then connects dependence to Christian life and grace, Catholic conversion, and finitude. They examine motherhood, parenting, “the given,” and limits of agency, and consider birth and death as non-purely-medical events shaped by trust, home birth/hospice, and professionalization, extending to mental illness, disability, and reciprocal community accommodations. 00:00 Meet Leah Sargent 00:34 Why Dependence Has Dignity 02:04 Family and Life Cycles 03:29 Prosperity and Control Illusions 05:49 American Independence Myth 07:04 Rights Duties and Ownership 11:17 Fear of Being a Burden 14:30 Asymmetry and Gratitude 17:43 Faith Grace and Dependence 25:40 Agency Limits and Doomscrolling 28:25 Motherhood and Being Finite 32:30 Accepting the Given 34:35 Stoicism and Christian Suffering 35:15 Trust in Childbirth 38:20 Birth Plans and Support 40:50 Birth and Death as Dependence 44:02 Professionalizing Death 45:11 Regulation and Human Goodbyes 49:04 Hospital Noise and Dignity 50:17 Mental Illness and Asymmetry 53:30 Accommodation and Reciprocity 55:47 Dementia Cafes and Interdependence 58:04 Closing Thoughts and Where to Find Leah Resources Find Leah’s work at https://leahlibresco.com/ You can find links to her books, including The Dignity of Dependence, here. Articles mentioned in the podcast: Everyone is Eventually a Burden and Mothers Are Not Machines This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

    1h 1m
  5. Ep. 49: David Beckmeyer on Outrage Overload, Tech, Media, and Tribalism

    May 11

    Ep. 49: David Beckmeyer on Outrage Overload, Tech, Media, and Tribalism

    On the We Made This Political podcast, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview David Beckmeyer, creator of Outrage Overload, about how constant political conflict shapes emotions, behavior, and relationships. Beckmeyer explains he began the project after seeing post-2016 and COVID-era outrage break friendships and families, and after recognizing his own role in online pile-ons. They discuss how outrage can feel rewarding through shared social judgment, how misinformation and especially framing distort public understanding, and how social media enables people to form insulated bubbles at global scale—even without algorithms. The conversation emphasizes complexity, trade-offs, and opportunity costs in policy debates, urging curiosity, practical “scripts” like “tell me more,” boundaries when needed, and more local, relationship-based engagement to reduce polarization. 00:00 Online Bubbles Begin 00:28 Podcast And Guest Intro 01:54 Why Outrage Overload 04:17 The Reward Of Outrage 06:09 Lessons From 125 Experts 08:40 Tech Algorithms And Misinformation 13:20 Framing And Media Funnels 16:29 Local Community Reality Check 19:04 Landscape And Ecosystem Thinking 22:51 Tradeoffs Over Talking Points 23:48 COVID Debates Gone Wrong 30:20 Immigration As Outrage Bludgeon 34:35 Bridging Work Surprise 35:26 Why People Resist Bridging 37:49 Tribal Segregation Instincts 39:15 Outrage Versus Overload 40:14 Tradeoffs And Bandwidth 42:06 Relationships Breaking Apart 44:06 Stop Trying To Win 46:24 Curiosity Scripts That Work 53:48 Shared Projects Humanize 56:50 Parenting Lessons On Outrage 01:00:04 Tell Me More Mindset 01:02:24 Where To Find David 01:03:14 Reasons For Optimism 01:04:30 Final Thanks And Outro Resources: Find all of David’s work, including his podcast Outrage Overload, at outrageoverload.net This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

    1h 5m
  6. Ep. 48: Colleen Shogan on Public History, Polarization, and the Future of the National Archives

    May 4

    Ep. 48: Colleen Shogan on Public History, Polarization, and the Future of the National Archives

    Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Colleen Shogan, the 11th Archivist of the United States, about practicing public history in a polarized, low-trust environment. Shogan explains the Archivist’s nonpartisan, Senate-confirmed role overseeing a nationwide federal agency, and describes being fired by President Trump without the legally required explanation to Congress. She discusses the personal impact, support she received, and her quick return to work through More Perfect’s “In Pursuit” project. The conversation covers why politicizing institutions like the National Archives and Library of Congress fuels public suspicion, the need to hold complexity and nuance in American history, and how archives enable evolving interpretations. Shogan warns that inadequate funding threatens access to massive born-digital records and outlines plans for a costly “system of systems,” while noting archives’ future importance in verifying truth amid deepfakes. 00:00 Welcome and Introductions 01:05 What an Archivist Does 03:25 Nonpartisan Role Explained 06:03 Fired Without Explanation 08:28 Criticism From Both Sides 12:08 Coping and Moving Forward 17:19 New Platform After NARA 18:44 Polarization and Trust Crisis 23:42 Holding Complexity in History 26:39 Lincoln Douglass and Nuance 31:19 Revising History Temptation 32:13 Blimp View History 33:20 Critical Juncture Debate 34:11 Why Archives Matter 35:59 Reconstruction Records Lessons 38:32 Born Digital Crisis 43:01 Access Not Storage 44:14 Deepfakes Trust Proof 47:17 In Pursuit Project 55:51 Learning From Failures 01:01:01 Planning Next 250 Resources Check out the wonderful collection of essays celebrating our nation’s 250th at In Pursuit and the podcast In Pursuit with Colleen Shogan This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

    1h 4m
  7. Ep. 47: Joshua Bandoch on Persuasion, Emotional Intelligence and Positive Politics

    Apr 26

    Ep. 47: Joshua Bandoch on Persuasion, Emotional Intelligence and Positive Politics

    Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host “We Made This Political,” a podcast about making politics more about flourishing than power, and interview Joshua Bandoch, author of How to Get What You Want and VP of Policy at the Illinois Policy Institute. Bandoch explains he wrote the book after seeing good ideas fail without effective communication, arguing persuasion requires emotional intelligence because people feel before they reason and emotions support reasoning. The discussion connects persuasion to curiosity, pluralism, and polarization, criticizing “logic tsunamis,” tribal signaling, and viewing opponents as “crazy, stupid, or evil.” Drawing on moral foundations theory, Bandoch urges understanding others’ values rather than trying to change them, and emphasizes positive, “for something” leadership as more persuasive than fear-based negativity. He also applies persuasion to parenting by offering children off-ramps and modeling calm emotional regulation. The book releases tomorrow and Bandoch can be found on LinkedIn and joshuabandoch.com. 00:00 Meet the Hosts 00:57 Introducing Josh and His Book 01:38 Why Persuasion Matters 02:45 Feelings Before Reason 07:25 Positive Emotions Win People Over 10:37 Curiosity Over Crusading 12:40 Polarization and the Persuasive Mindset 16:16 Moral Foundations and Wired Values 18:18 Pluralism and Appealing to Values 23:01 Tribalism, Power, and Losing Persuasion 26:16 Fear Behind Being Right 27:16 Practicing Being Wrong 27:37 Fear Politics and Curiosity 31:44 Negativity Bias in Media 33:02 Why Positivity Persuades 36:39 Pope Leo vs Trump Messaging 39:23 Trump Empathy and Slogans 42:59 Right vs Making Difference 46:34 Off Ramps and Face Saving 48:29 Why Americans Polarize 51:44 Parenting as Persuasion 53:46 Book Plug and Farewell This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

    56 min
  8. Ep. 46: Sam Daley-Harris on Transformational Advocacy

    Apr 13

    Ep. 46: Sam Daley-Harris on Transformational Advocacy

    Laura Forcum and Lauren Hall host “We Made This Political,” a podcast about making politics more about flourishing and less about power, and interview civic entrepreneur Sam Daley-Harris, author of Reclaiming Our Democracy. Daley-Harris recounts his path from percussionist and former symphony musician to founding the anti-poverty lobby RESULTS after confronting world hunger and discovering most students couldn’t name their member of Congress. He contrasts “transactional” actions like petitions with “transformational advocacy” built on recruitment and community, training, practice, coaching, relationship-building, deep listening, and encouraging people to move beyond their comfort zones. The conversation explores how music-informed rehearsal and collective experience support advocacy, why cynicism can be paralyzing, and how sustained citizen engagement can influence outcomes, including efforts affecting proposed cuts to the EPA, maternal and child health, and the Global Fund. 00:00 Podcast Intro 00:51 Sam’s Music Past 06:28 From Music to Advocacy 10:48 Music Skills in Activism 18:30 Collective Effervescence 20:47 Beating Cynicism With Action 29:24 Transactional vs Transformational 31:35 Three Pillars of Advocacy 32:26 Breakthroughs Beyond Comfort 33:42 Amnesty Letters Perspective 35:55 Coaching Through Listening 40:34 Relationships Over Wins 42:04 Long Game Advocacy Wins 47:41 Protests Voting Missing Piece 56:59 Pseudo Politics Real Action 59:14 Bipartisanship For Durability 01:03:50 Optimism Resources Farewell Resources Check out Sam’s book Reclaiming Our Democracy and Sam’s website Reclaiming Our Democracy for more info on transformational advocacy and how to contact Sam. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

    1h 5m
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
6 Ratings

About

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum talk together and with guests about what political science, psychology, and parenting has taught them about making politics better for everyone. wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Information

  • Creator
    Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    55
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall
  • Show Website
    We Made This Political Podcast

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