Rad N Bad Podcast

Sean Yocum and Michael Carrero from Hickory Learning Group
  • 5.0 (7)
  • Social Sciences
  • Updated Weekly

The Rad N' Bad Podcast by Sean Yocum and Michael Carrero isn’t your average ABA podcast, it’s a full-blown wake-up call. These two BCBAs from Hickory Learning Group are smashing through outdated norms and calling out the BS in the field. No fluff, no sugar-coating, just raw, unfiltered truth about what ABA should be. They challenge you to think, question the “why,” and push past complacency. If you're ready to disrupt the status quo and make this field better for clients and practitioners alike, buckle up, Rad N' Bad is here to raise hell and raise standards.

  1. 2d ago

    Episode 48: The Billable Hour, Driver’s Ed Ethics, and Making Therapy Unnecessary with Dr. Jon Bailey & Zachary Stevens

    Filing an ethics complaint against us would require actually citing the ethics code—and honestly, we’d appreciate the peer review. On this episode of Rad N Bad, Sean Yocum and Mike Carrero sit down with ethics heavy-hitters Dr. Jon Bailey (founder of the ABA Ethics Hotline) and Zachary Stevens (co-authors alongside Dr. Mary Burch of The Ethical Behavior Analyst) for an unfiltered examination of modern behavioral healthcare. We move past checklist compliance and memorize-the-code ethics to ask the hard questions: What happens when ethical practice collides with corporate private equity and billable hour quotas? Why are we teaching supervisees like they’re taking driver’s ed instead of preparing them for the clinical highway? And why is the true goal of ABA not great therapy, but making therapy completely unnecessary? Key Discussion Points: Driver’s Ed Ethics vs. Ethical Judgment: Why memorizing the BACB ethics code doesn’t prepare clinicians for real-world clinical pressure. The Conflict of Interest Trap: How tying compensation to billable quotas, 25-to-40-hour minimums, and "drive-by supervision" undermines client care. Outcome-Based vs. Dosage-Based Models: Why the field must shift from billing hours to measuring functional, real-world skill acquisition. The Supervision Reality: Moving beyond checking off 2,000 fieldwork hours to modeling how to handle denials, mistakes, and true client advocacy. The Mirror Moment: Why behavior analysts must embrace feedback, kick out private equity exploitation, and never lose sight of the human being across the table. You can pick up a copy of the Ethical Behavior Analyst right here! https://www.routledge.com/The-Ethical-Behavior-Analyst/Stevens-Bailey-Burch/p/book/9781032988849?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23976946742&gbraid=0AAAAACWuhHWAw1T6SJ5lQNVEYoky-9B4T&gclid=CjwKCAjwtKrUBhAhEiwAr77Zol_NkaYtUw4k7TMT4rxYZUP2YiRttF1P7SXqJ_LyNZ6yf2Y28qkO7BoCzsAQAvD_BwE

  2. Aug 21

    Episode 47: Facing the Anti-ABA Contingency with B.F. Middleton

    Why is our field so terrified of its own critics? When people critique Applied Behavior Analysis, the knee-jerk reaction across clinics, message boards, and leadership panels is almost always defense: "They just misunderstand the science," "They're talking about old ABA," or "That's not real ABA." On this episode of Rad N Bad, Mike Carrero and Sean Yocum sit down with B.F. Middleton (Oh Behave! Podcast / The Bearded Behaviorist) to stop playing defense attorney for our discipline and start applying behavior analysis to our own institutional practices. Instead of dismissing the Anti-ABA movement as irrational or misinformed, we analyze it for what it actually is: textbook Skinnerian counter-control. Anti-ABA Opposition as Environmental Data: Why public critique isn't an attack to be shut down—it’s critical environmental feedback signaling where our controlling practices have become coercive. The "Today's ABA" Trap: Why rebranding our methods as "compassionate" or "trauma-informed" fails if we don't alter the underlying corporate contingencies (billables, compliance, authorization metrics) driving clinician behavior. Albert Bandura & Moral Disengagement: How clinicians use verbal mechanisms—like comparing current practice to historical aversives—to insulate themselves from legitimate feedback about client distress. Rights Holders vs. Stakeholders: Re-centering Montrose Wolf's concept of Social Validity around client autonomy, assent, and human rights rather than insurance compliance or parent convenience. Beyond the Echo Chamber: How behavior analysis can transition from defending a static identity to creating a self-correcting science that continuously responds to neurodivergent self-advocates. Where to find BF Middleton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beardedbehaviorist/

  3. Aug 12

    Episode 46: Hover Before You Land: Building Cross-Disciplinary Standards in Autism Care with Dr. Robin McLeod from NSAP

    There is no shortage of organizations in autism—we have associations, credentialing bodies, coalitions, and advocacy groups. Yet, the field remains completely fragmented. Behavior analysts talk to behavior analysts, speech therapists talk to speech therapists, and physicians talk to physicians. While clinicians protect their turf, insurance companies write policy, legislators write laws, and private equity reshapes service delivery. In this episode of Rad N Bad, Sean Yocum and Mike Carrero sit down with Dr. Robin McLeod, founding CEO of the National Society of Autism Professionals (NSAP), to address the missing element in autism care: cross-disciplinary leadership and standardized accountability. Dr. McLeod breaks down NSAP’s massive mission to unite clinical healthcare, education, policy, research, technology, and advocacy around meaningful, lifelong outcomes for autistic individuals and their families. Key Topics Covered in This Episode: The Fragmented Field: Why operating in professional silos leaves clinicians reactive to payer policies instead of driving care standards. The Two Engines of NSAP: How the Standards Engine (building a cross-disciplinary competency framework) powers the Influence Engine (advocating with payers and legislators). "Hover Before You Land": Dr. McLeod’s framework for cross-disciplinary perspective-taking and facilitating productive, respectful disagreement among experts. Compliance vs. Outcomes: Why an audit-proof treatment plan and high session attendance do not automatically equal clinically significant change. Value-Based Care & Reinforcement: How shifting away from volume-based hourly billing incentivizes true generalization, caregiver competence, and functional independence across the lifespan. If you are ready to stop performing leadership and help build an industry standard that holds providers and payers accountable, this episode is a must-listen. Learn More & Join NSAP: NSAP.org

  4. Aug 3

    Episode 45: Beyond Clinic Walls: 1,300 Sessions & a 1% Cancellation Rate with Melissa Kozak

    Most BCBAs are taught that high-integrity care requires a toddler sitting in a clinic 40 hours a week, locked into a screen, and managed by burned-out middle management. Melissa Kozak is here to prove that model completely wrong. As the founder of Kozak Consulting and Going Independent, Melissa has conducted over 1,300 direct caregiver sessions with an astounding 1% cancellation rate. The secret? She ditched the corporate assembly line, threw out the blanket hour prescriptions, and built a pure, caregiver-led practice that prioritizes human connection, Behavior Skills Training (BST), and soft skills over billable unit metrics. In this episode, Sean Yocum and Mike Carrero sit down with Melissa to tackle the uncomfortable truths holding the ABA field back: The Soft-Skills Deficit: Why so many clinicians struggle to talk to parents without hiding behind an iPad or a checklist—and how to build genuine, rapport-first relationships. The Caregiver-Led Blueprint: How targeting real-life family priorities (like a 3-second photo or a mealtime routine) leads to lower cancellations and faster, sustainable progress. Ditching the 40-Hour Prescription: Why massive, blanket hour authorizations are often driving burnout and revenue—not actual clinical necessity. Tech That Works for You: How tools like HiRasmus can be leveraged to streamline clinical workflows without losing the human element. Taking Control of Your Science: How burnt-out BCBAs can step off the corporate hamster wheel, cut out the middleman, and launch their own high-impact, independent practices. If you are ready to stop checking corporate boxes and start engineering real-world outcomes, hit play.

  5. Jul 24

    Episode 44: Who the Hell Built the BCBA Industrial Complex? with Dr. Han-Leong Goh

    The BCBA credential has never been more valuable. So why do so many new clinicians feel completely unprepared? Sean Yocum and Mike Carrero welcome Dr. Han-Leong Goh for an unapologetic conversation about the systems shaping modern behavior analysis. From graduate education and supervision to insurance reform, billable hours, leadership, and mentorship, they examine how good intentions created incentives that don't always produce great clinicians. The conversation isn't about blaming universities, employers, or behavior analysts. It's about asking whether the profession has accidentally built a system that rewards the wrong behaviors—and what it would take to rebuild it.

  6. Jul 15

    Episode 43: Who The Hell Is Steering This Profession? (With The ABA Accountability Project)

    The multi-billion-dollar corporate takeover of autism services has officially reached its breaking point. Over the last decade, we have watched private equity firms dump massive capital into the industry, swallowing up small community providers and mass-producing cookie-cutter clinic networks. Somewhere along the line, trade associations and self-appointed accreditation programs stepped behind closed doors and declared themselves the official voice of our science. But nobody asked the practitioners on the ground for a vote. In this explosive episode of Rad N Bad, Sean and Mike strip away the corporate marketing jargon to answer a simple, glaring question: Who the hell is actually driving this field? Joining the studio are Kirsten Hall and Aaron Gold, founders of the ABA Accountability Project, an organization dedicating itself to tracking power, governance, and transparency inside Applied Behavior Analysis. Together, they drop the ultimate "Umpire Analogy"—dissecting the massive conflict of interest where the same entities creating clinical standards are financially tied to the monopolies inspecting them, all while lobbying insurance payers to make those very inspections mandatory. They take a hard, behavior-analytic lens to the dangerous reality of corporate lobbying groups fighting against mandatory frontline RBT credentials under the guise of "improving access to care." This isn't a simple personal vendetta; it's a structural evaluation of an industry that treats kids like products and clinical decision-making like an asset portfolio. If you are an independent provider, a clinician drowning under corporate caseload targets, or a parent fighting for quality over volume, this episode is a blueprint for grassroots reform. Buckle up. Strong sciences don't fear questions—they invite them.

  7. Jul 6

    Episode 42: Who The Hell Is That Again, with Lou Sandler: The Illusion of Progress: Flashcards, Seismograph Graphs, and Real Industry Reform

    The Titanic has officially struck the iceberg, and the music is starting to stop behind closed doors. Following the explosive New York Times investigation exposing fraud, seven-minute nap billings, and hyper-inflated center-based hours across the autism therapy sector, the industry is entering its ultimate "prove it" era. But how did a pure, data-driven behavioral science transform into an industrialized, multi-billion-dollar corporate machine virtually overnight? In this massive, unfiltered, two-and-a-half-hour episode of Rad N Bad, Sean and Mike strip away the corporate marketing language, the toxic positivity, and the social media binaries to perform a brutal behavioral analysis of the contingencies that broke the field. Joining the conversation is an industry icon, Dr. Lou Sandler, who brings 45 years of clinical history from the trenches of Kennedy Krieger to pull back the curtain on what went wrong. Together, the guys dissect the concept of "Medical School Envy"—the dangerous structural delusion that behavior analysis can function as a standalone, isolated medical discipline rather than an integrated, instructional resource. Dr. Lou drops a nuclear take on why Discrete Trial Training (DTT) needs to die, exposes the total lack of clinical oversight in the mass-produced BCBA pipeline, and calls out the absolute corporate absurdity of offering financial bonuses to supervisors for hitting billing percentage targets. This isn't an attack on clinicians, and it's not a blind defense of a broken system. It’s a raw, battle-tested manifesto detailing how we pivot away from a service maintenance dependency model and go "back to the future" by prioritizing homes over centers, treating the family structure as the ultimate clinical environment, and measuring success solely by our ability to work ourselves out of a job. Buckle up. The filters are completely off, the labels are being torn down, and it's time to get radical.

  8. Jun 26

    Episode 41: DTT is Not a Permanent Residence: Mapping the Real Middle Ground of Structure vs. Autonomy

    Are we using clinical structure to build real-world independence, or are we just using it as an excuse for corporate and intellectual laziness? This week, Sean and Mike step right into the crossfire of the industry’s loudest, most polarizing argument to map out the definitive middle ground on Discrete Trial Training (DTT). Depending on who you ask on social media, DTT is either the only way to successfully teach complex skills or it’s the absolute poster child for everything wrong with modern, compliance-driven therapy. Both sides are completely right about the execution failures, but they are completely wrong about the science. Sean and Mike strip away the corporate marketing crap, toxic positivity, and traditionalist dogma to expose the reality of engineering behavior that actually leaves the clinical room. They break down: The Illusion of the Table: Why high acquisition numbers on a tablet can be a clinical lie if the behavior doesn't survive when the theatrical props, cards, and contrived rewards go away. The Workflow Over Science Trap: Tearing down why clinics stay stubbornly codependent on tabletop drills—not because the science demands it, but because it’s cheap to train, easy to score, and simple to audit for insurance funders. The True Middle Ground: How to ruthlessly apply intense structural repetition to build prerequisite skills in isolation, while simultaneously programming for prompt fading and Natural Environment Teaching (NET) from day one. The Generalization Mandate: Why if you cannot describe exactly how a target response transfers across new settings, novel materials, and organic contingencies, you are fundamentally not done designing the clinical program. Stop hiding behind rigid procedural brands or superficial, positive-only marketing labels to avoid the messy, complex work of real-world generalization. DTT should serve as a powerful clinical ladder—but a ladder is meant to be climbed off of, not lived on. Tune in, audit your current setups, and help us reclaim the true spirit of radical behaviorism. Stay bold. Stay contrarian. Stay Rad N Bad.

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5
out of 5
7 Ratings

About

The Rad N' Bad Podcast by Sean Yocum and Michael Carrero isn’t your average ABA podcast, it’s a full-blown wake-up call. These two BCBAs from Hickory Learning Group are smashing through outdated norms and calling out the BS in the field. No fluff, no sugar-coating, just raw, unfiltered truth about what ABA should be. They challenge you to think, question the “why,” and push past complacency. If you're ready to disrupt the status quo and make this field better for clients and practitioners alike, buckle up, Rad N' Bad is here to raise hell and raise standards.

Information

  • Creator
    Sean Yocum and Michael Carrero from Hickory Learning Group
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    61
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Sean Yocum and Michael Carrero from Hickory Learning Group
  • Show Website
    Rad N Bad Podcast

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