Clean Countertops with Sara Petersen & Emily J. Smith

Sara Petersen

A podcast about all the ways ideals of Good Womanhood™ are bad. Hosted by Sara Petersen & Emily J. Smith.

Episodes

  1. What does VACATION even mean?

    2h ago

    What does VACATION even mean?

    Summer is officially here and vacations are being scheduled and planned and enjoyed—or at least endured!—en masse. While the word alone may put some people’s entire body at ease, others may freeze up at the thought of endless decision making, managing children on the road, and a grab bag of unexpected costs. So this week on the pod, we’re discussing all things vacation! In fact, Sara is on a vacation at this very moment! And so it’s Emily here, while Sara (according to all she revealed in this ep) is hopefully laying comfortably in Cape Cod with a book right now and hopefully not managing a crew of small children bickering over sand toys.  In this ep, we discuss our ideal vacations and why, only to realize how devastatingly limited our imaginations have become. And yet, isn’t the acceptance of limitation our only real shot of happiness? We talk about the trade-offs of adventure vs. comfort, the impacts of age on our desire for the unknown, and whether it’s possible to bring the concept of “vacation” into our everyday life. An hour went by in a blink unpacking the heft of decisions and preferences and implications behind this single, innocent-seeming word.

    37 min
  2. Daring To Desire

    Jun 12

    Daring To Desire

    Both Emily and I are huge fans of Amil Niazi. She writes about middle age, motherhood, womanhood, and most recently ambition. You might be familiar with her excellent column at The Cut, where she always manages to write about the exact thing I've been fruitlessly ruminating on with clarity, humor, and insight. She's a delight. And so is her new, bestselling book, My Life After Ambition: A Good Enough Memoir. A few weeks ago, I interviewed Stefanie O'Connell about ambition, and it feels like a topic that can be endlessly excavated. Especially for women. Amil's book is the book I needed to read when I was 25 and depressed that I hadn't "succeeded at life as an adult" yet. And it's the book I still need now that my definitions of success have changed. We had the absolute best conversation, delved deep into our personal histories of ambition, and came out on the other side ready to f**k up with abandon.

    48 min
  3. Lena Dunham's FAMESICK And The Price Of Redemption

    May 29

    Lena Dunham's FAMESICK And The Price Of Redemption

    In which Emily and I discuss the many revelations of Famesick, a book positively brimming with Hollywood gossip (Adam Driver! Jenni Konner! Nora Ephron! F*****g Bruce Springsteen!) and themes near and dear to our hearts (feminism! bodies! performance of self! people-pleasing as women!) We also review our personal histories with Girls and whether or not we were on the right side of history as it pertains to the gleeful misogyny of Lena Dunham Hating in the mid-aughts. We top everything off by playing a little game of compare and contrast with Famesick and Lindy West's Adult Braces.

    54 min
  4. WE Feel Bad About Our Hair

    May 15

    WE Feel Bad About Our Hair

    As mentioned in Wednesday's newsletter, which was a self-indulgent rant about my hair woes and from whence they sprang, Emily and I spent an hour talking about why hair haunts us. And listen, while much of the episode is us bitching like BFFs at a slumber party, I legitimately think we landed on some actual insights as to why HAIR is such a fraught f*****g thing for so many of us. Plus, a lot of you got in touch to say you liked us ranting about DINNER so perhaps we make this a regular thing? Chime in in the comments to let us know what very basic everyday thing we should bitch about cover next! HAPPY WEEKEND AND HAPPY HAIR!

    47 min
  5. Starving To Be Good

    May 1

    Starving To Be Good

    This week, Emily and I talked to Anna Rollins about her beautiful memoir, Famished: On Food, Sex, and Growing Up as a Good Girl Anna grew up in an Evangelical Christian community in Appalachia and was taught from a very young age that gender, sexuality, appetite, and thinness were toxically intertwined. Eating disorders were very much normalized in her community, and girls were taught to fear their desires. It's an incredible book, which both Emily and I tore through. Emily has written before about her history with disordered eating, and listening to both Anna and Emily exchange their personal insights was such a privilege. I got so much from both Anna's book and our conversation, which TRULY covers the gamut of why ideals of womanhood are Very, Very Bad.

    47 min
  6. "Do you want kids?" is the wrong question

    Apr 17

    "Do you want kids?" is the wrong question

    Today, Emily and I discuss something we've been discussing since the day we became friends. What does it mean to bring children into the world? What does it mean to want to become a mother? And is that the same things as wanting to raise kids? There are just as many reasons not to have kids are there are reasons to have them, but so often cultural conversations about maternal ambivalence, pronatalism, and the climate crisis coagulate into a sticky abstract. Ultimately, the question of motherhood is intensely personal. So we get into it, and bring our individual baggage along for the ride! Related Reading:Why Having A Third Baby Felt Like The Safe Choice (by Sara) Reclaiming Maternal Dread (by Sara) I Don't Cherish Every Moment (by Sara) Is Having A Child Worth It? (by Emily) The Choice of Childlessness (by Emily) I Need More Time: Weighing The Option of Egg Freezing (by Emily)

    41 min
  7. Lindy West Wrote A BOOK

    Apr 3

    Lindy West Wrote A BOOK

    I occupy a certain corner of the internet that's been closely following all things Lindy West. My group chats have been ABLAZE. In today's episode, we talk to author Leigh Stein about her viral newsletter post about reading Adult Braces through the lens of gothic literature and domestic abuse. We also (BRAVELY) talk about Adult Braces as a memoir, rather than merely an asterisk to a million think pieces about the death of feminism blah blah blah. This was such a rich conversation, and even if you're burned out on Lindy West discourse (fair!), if you're at all curious about Adult Braces (road trips, personal insecurities, fatness, self-image, embodiment, Shrill the TV show, the connection between the perception of desirability and selfhood) this one's for you.

    42 min
  8. The Tyranny of Dinner

    Mar 20

    The Tyranny of Dinner

    This week, Emily and I bravely unpack the perennial problem of dinner. We have to think about it, we have to cook it, we have to clean it up, and most of all, we need to eat it otherwise we die. Let's get into it. ALSO DISCUSSED 🍿🥘🥬 Stir-fry being THE college girl dinner of our day Ina Garten as ultimate comfort watch The unlimited joys of popcorn Big Kale Dawson's Creek and the passing of James Van Der Beek Sara's fear of the grocery store Emily's fear of sauce The un-fun but very real fact of eating disorders impacting the conception of dinner PASTA TV as bliss Emily's breakfast reveal . . . which causes Sara to melt down

    41 min
  9. How The Perfect Woman Cheats

    Mar 6

    How The Perfect Woman Cheats

    This week, Emily and I had the juiciest conversation with Emily Adrian, author of The Seduction Theory, which Emily and I both obsessively read in tandem. It's a delicious novel about the stories we tell ourselves and each other, the nature of infidelity, and how desirable women are both embodied and objectivized. Other Topics Covered: Sara's questionable notion of aspirational womanhood The novel concept of married people who are still in love The duality of hot moms and sad moms The luxury of time when you're an academic without kids Physical cheating vs. emotional cheating "Can straight men revere their partners?" The balance between power and vulnerability Is seduction simply another form of challenge? Sometimes Sara doesn't want to read about motherhood! Are kids insurance against a cheating partner (lol lol lol)? Emily's hilarious "good thing" for the week. Tween-approved.

    35 min
  10. We're 44 And We're FINE

    Feb 20

    We're 44 And We're FINE

    In which Emily and I discuss an article from The Cut about 44 as a milestone age and whether or not our journey over the alleged bridge of 44 has changed us. ALSO! Emily and I sort of disagree about Pluribus but get equally enraged about one particular scene Plantar fasciitis The disappearance of "mom" clothes Tracking our cycles Aspirational healthcare Not wanting MORE DATA jfc Age as the "great equalizer" Age as a "problem" to solve "Leading with anger"

    39 min
  11. The Erotics of Tradwives and Girlbosses

    Feb 6

    The Erotics of Tradwives and Girlbosses

    EEEEE! I'm so beyond excited to share the first episode of Clean Countertops! Topics covered: My past tradwife aspirations Emily's past girlboss aspirations Behind-the-scenes podcast LEARNING MOMENTS Elizabeth Holmes' hair, lipstick, and black turtleneck Men wanting to f**k themselves? Youth as integral to both tradwife and girlboss branding Emily's shocking lack of countertop agita Our meet-cute at a writing conference Tradwife fatigue AYN RAND YIKES STRIPES The girls' girl vs. the guys' girl Family influence Thank you all so much for listening, and PLEASE let us know what sort of topics you'd like us to cover in future eps! We're very very very open to your feedback (for example: are transcripts something you'd like in the future?) so please be in touch!

    43 min
  12. THE PODCAST!

    Jan 29

    THE PODCAST!

    I'm so excited to share a little taste of my podcast, Clean Countertops, the first episode of which comes out NEXT WEEK! Here's a bit about the pod. Clean Countertops examines the endless examples of ideal womanhood pulsing through every aspect of our culture. Hosted by me (obv) and feminist writer Emily J. Smith, each episode examines a different cultural touchpoint that pushes on expectations of the “ideal” woman. I'm a married mom of 3 in rural NH, and Emily is a child-free, unmarried Brooklynite. We come from very different backgrounds, but we've spent the past decade bonding over the ways our pursuit of particular feminine ideals–and the subsequent dismantling of that pursuit–has shaped the core of our identities. Whether we're talking about tradwives, girl bosses, or pronatalist goddesses, we're always talking about why Good Woman™ ideals are bad.  Join me, Emily, and the occasional guest to untangle, dissect, and most importantly laugh at the inescapable expectations of womanhood today.

    4 min

Trailer

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
9 Ratings

About

A podcast about all the ways ideals of Good Womanhood™ are bad. Hosted by Sara Petersen & Emily J. Smith.

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