The Passage

The Passage

The Passage is a literary podcast where authors read a passage from their own work and break down exactly how they wrote it, from the first spark of inspiration and the early drafts to the sentence-level decisions and the moment they knew it was finished. Guests span fiction, nonfiction, essays, and more, from novelists to memoirists to food and travel writers. Your hosts are Jon and Cory, two former book editors who love getting into the weeds of how writing actually gets made.

  1. 3d ago

    Max Lury | No Ghosts | Weird Fiction | Ep. 22

    Max Lury reads from No Ghosts, his unsettling debut novel about grief, friendship in the modern era of technology, and (just maybe) the afterlife. In his passage, a woman is anonymously emailed a strange, possibly AI-generated video of her missing best friend, or something close to her. Max chats with Jon and Cory about: The trickiness of writing about a character watching a videoThe creepypasta story that has stuck with him since he was a teenager, and the elements that might have seeped into his novelHis first stab at the idea that became No Ghosts: a George Saunders–inspired short story about a bouncer who joins a séance communityNot shying away from texting and the outsized role smartphones play in our modern livesWatching AI technology catch up to his fiction over the five years he spent writing the bookTyping out Don DeLillo passages in his own font and printing them out to demystify them Max’s passage from No Ghosts, available from Peninsula Press: There were two files, which took less than a minute to download. In that time she tried to work out who might have sent them. They’d been sent the day of Annie’s memorial, which could mean something, although she wasn’t sure what. It could be spam, too. There were bots that could scrape for your name, find your details: this kind of thing wasn’t uncommon. A dozen reasons for it, which she was sure would come to light when the download was finished. The small circle became one colour. Harlow opened the first file with VLC media player, and clicked play. The film was shot from just inside a hallway, an open door framing a woman alone in a room. Harlow paused it and exhaled. She said, f**k, out loud. The woman on the screen looked like Annie. Although, not exactly. The image had her red hair, the same eye bags, the same freckles which clumped to make formless blotches – but it was still somehow an approximation. Compiled from disparate elements. It was how Annie’s face would look if she wore it as a mask. Harlow closed her eyes for a moment and pressed the tips of her fingers against her eyelids. She took a deep breath and opened her eyes. It was still Annie. At least, a version of her. Almost her. Harlow pressed play again. The woman sat alone on a sofa, in a wooden cabin. There was a fur throw under her and the window behind was whited out. She folded small clothes, presumably a child’s, in her lap, rocking ever so slightly as she did so. Her hands were half-rendered, only meant to be visible in motion. The figure stopped what she was doing, her face going slack, and her fingers tapped one by one against her thumb. She looked up and as she did, the scene ended. It cut and started again. The shot was in the same position, peering into the same room. Harlow took a closer look, trying to see if the woman really was Annie, or if she was just projecting. It was the same figure again: red hair; that big, ungainly mouth. But this time the woman on screen seemed distressed, her lips were moving as if she was saying a word or a name over and over, running her hands through her hair, eyes wide, something upsetting to it, that same mad panic Harlow had seen so many times with Annie in hospital waiting rooms and on bedroom floors. But it was, Harlow felt, undeniably Annie. Alone, and afraid. Annie, or almost-Annie, looked up. Her eyes came to rest above the camera, widening just a fraction in what could have been recognition or panic. There was no way of telling. In the last scene the cabin was empty, and the throw was gone. The window had been smashed but there were no shards of glass on the floor. Something like a shadow fell across the shot, coming from the hallway behind, and then the video was over.

  2. Oct 15

    Lydia Millet | Fair Ones: A Double Novel | Fiction | Ep. 21

    Lydia Millet reads from Fair Ones: A Double Novel, her experimentally-structured story of two women navigating the sudden and unexpected death of their best friend. During our conversation, the Pulitzer- and National Book Award-nominated author reflects on her evolution as a writer and chats with Jon and Cory about: How she and her publisher decided on "A Double Novel" (and the many alternatives they considered)Her love of dialogue (and how much she hates reading it outloud)The increasing influence of pop culture on her writingHer obsession with fontsWriting exclusively outdoors Lydia's passage, from Fair Ones: “Let yourself go,” said Jen. “It’s your turn to be a leaf. Or, like, the plastic bag in that egregiously overrated movie from the nineties. The pedophile fantasy dressed up as cinematic art? With the rose motif? You can just float there, like the bag. Swirling in an updraft. In a super-obvious yet oh-so-gritty metaphor.” We headed to the men’s room with Jase and Patrice, where, as always, there was no line. Locked ourselves in and consumed. [...] Just don’t be rude, I warned myself. [...] But my own potential rudeness sat on my shoulder like a gremlin. At the same time, I did feel like a floating plastic bag. I was a floating plastic bag, indifferent to the breeze that carried me. The bag was thin, and sometimes full of air, but had the imperviousness of plastic—it would last, it would go on and on, though it tumbled and soared. It might snag on a tree or bush, but there it was. I was several metaphors at once, and it wasn’t a problem for me. The gremlin was only a figment. On Jase’s coke I wasn’t bothered by any of the conversations. When Elise touched on the event, I gave the appearance of listening. Though, in reality, I felt apart from it and supernatural. A superhero. The plastic bag was a miracle! Who had made it? Who had made me? If Claire had been a bag she’d be floating there too. Or we might be snagged together in a tree. A green tree, I thought, with squirrels and nuts and birds . . . slowly shedding our plastic bodies, shedding and shredding. Filmy tatters we’d be, across the bare winters. But there, perhaps, for all eternity. Or at least, till someone cut down the tree.

  3. Oct 1

    Isaac Fitzgerald | American Rambler | Memoir | Ep. 20

    Isaac Fitzgerald reads from American Rambler: Walking the Trail of Johnny Appleseed, his memoir about following in the footsteps of one of America’s great folk heroes. In this episode, we discuss the book’s opening passage, learning how to write, and how walking became a way to write about family, loneliness, and home. Isaac also talks to Jon and Cory about: Putting “tension" in the bank to keep readers turning pagesPolishing first lines to a high shineThe benefits of writing an entire manuscript longhandUsing voice memos and photos as notesStorytelling and the art of stand-up comedyCutting the “throat clearing” from early draftsIsaac’s passage, from American Rambler: I’ve been drinking a bit less and praying a lot more than I used to. Now, that’s not to say I’m drinking less than most people—I’m not—nor that a doctor would sign off on my lifestyle as a healthy one—they wouldn’t—but self-betterment has to start somewhere, and for me that means choosing sobriety occasionally. More often than I’m used to, which is to say more often than any sane person living in these modern times would want to. As for the praying? It’s not that I’m praying some saintly amount, but it’s another habit I’m developing, a healthier one. Like most of my habits, I picked this one up from my parents—only to abandon it for decades—taking prayer out on semi-rare occasions like car accidents, late rent payments, or particularly bad hangovers. But over the past few years I’ve found myself doing it more and more, and not only when I’m in trouble. Sometimes in moments of happiness. Other times, contentment. Every once in a rare while, during a moment of peace, I find myself with my knees in the dirt reciting the Lord’s Prayer. Which is what I’m doing right now—though it should be noted that I’m on my knees because I’m hiding behind a bush, and that this is very much one of those vintage “Oh shit, I’m in trouble” prayers, not one of contentment or peace. On top of all that, yes, I’m sober at the moment, though I’d rather not be, as I’m trying to avoid a railway police officer—known as a bull—who is slowly but steadily heading my way, and the stress of the situation is getting to me. In my mind, I put an emphasis on “And forgive us our trespasses . . .”

  4. Sep 22

    Scott Hawkins | Blacktail | Fantasy | Ep. 19

    Scott Hawkins reads from Blacktail, a dark fantasy in which a wolf seeks revenge on humanity for the death of his house dog mate. In this episode, we unpack a passage from the opening chapter, told from the perspective of a lynx, that sets up our introduction to the book’s titular character. Scott chats with Jon and Cory about: Writing from the perspective of animalsThe multiple scrapped projects he wrote between his debut novel, The Library at Mount Char, and BlacktailHis wife as his trusted first readerThe checklist he created and reviews drafts againstThe 80,000 words he spent trying to crack the first chapter of Mount Char that ended up on the cutting room floorThe storyline Mount Char borrows from The Godfather (as well as King Lear)His time at the Taos Toolbox writing workshop with Nancy Kress and Walter Jon Williams Scott's passage, from Blacktail (sorry, the whole passage wouldn't fit so it was edited slightly for length): The snow stopped shortly after dawn. The sky remained gray, though. A faint disk of white sun glowed behind towering clouds. Hate didn’t mind. He liked things gloomy. He hadn’t gone far before he encountered the first of the scent poems that marked the boundary of the wolf lands. He sniffed it idly, sighed. When marking his own lands he would usually keep it simple, something like “Mine. Leave or die.” The damn wolves, though . . . they always had to make a production of everything. It was even worse than their singing. This one said: White-Eye forgotten daughter alone and childless mate of none claims these lands. None other may hunt here. Yup, Hate thought. That’s wolves for you. Why just get to the point if you can whine first? He sniffed closer. This mark was old—last winter or thereabouts. Last he’d heard, White-Eye was still mateless. But she had borne a litter in the spring, a male and three females. That, in no small part, was why Hate had not been sleeping well, why he had been looking up the mountain when the gunshots rang out. White-Eye alone was bad enough. But with a pack behind her . . . a young pack . . . [...] When Hate first came to this patch of forest, he was young, cocky. Not content to take his share of the rabbits and leave well enough alone, he challenged White-Eye for the mountain one fine spring day. White-Eye subjugated him, leaving a shredded right ear that flopped when he walked. For a while he thought he might lose an eye as well, but in the end it healed. Sometimes, on cold nights when he couldn’t sleep he lay and wondered about that day. Why had she not killed him? He didn’t know. At any rate, he had not tried her again. Instead, he comforted himself with the knowledge that White-Eye was the last of her kind around here and, for all he knew, everywhere else. She would not live forever. He could afford to be patient. He had guile, and Guile as well. Eventually the mountain would belong to them, to their kittens. But now . . . it seemed he had miscalculated the degree of White-Eye’s desperation. The rumor was that she had lowered herself to mate with a house dog, some mongrel slave who’d been drawn to the wild lands by the scent of her estrus. As far as he knew, though, no one had ever caught scent of the father. [...] Alone, White-Eye could live well enough off the meat that dwelled on her hill. She had no reason to challenge him. But with four more mouths to feed it was inevitable that she invade Hate’s valley. He remembered her tooth shredding his right ear, the sting of it. Hot murder boiled up from his belly. His claws thrummed.

  5. Sep 11

    Bathsheba Demuth | Floating Coast: An Environmental History of the Bering Strait | History | Ep. 18

    Bathsheba Demuth reads from Floating Coast: An Environmental History of the Bering Strait, billed as the first comprehensive history of Beringia, the Arctic lands and waters that stretch from Russia to Canada. In this episode, we discuss a passage about walruses and the challenges of writing about nontraditional history subjects. Bathsheba talks to Jon and Cory about:  Turning an academic dissertation paper into a trade history bookResearching the history of commercial whaling in the 1840sTaking inspiration from poetsThe luxury of writing as a graduate studentCreative nonfiction writing exercisesWriting while running Bathsheba’s passage, from Floating Coast: Walruses are coastline embodied. They cannot eat without the sea, feeding a hundred or more feet underwater, where they root beds of clams and benthic worms from the mud. But they must breed and birth in the air. So the herds slide and wallow between, riding the edge of the sea ice south in autumn, then north through the Bering Strait in summer, sometimes leaving the ice to flop onto patches of sandy earth. Like whales, they concentrate rich seas in their bodies—over a ton for females, more than two tons for males. Walruses are not as fat as bowheads; the mussels they eat take their cut of the sunlight. But beneath inches of furrowed skin, a third of a walrus’s body weight is blubber. They do labor no person can, transforming submarine muck into useful tissue and hauling it to shore, drawing a line of energy from the sea onto the solid world.

  6. Sep 1

    Joshua Kendall | Trudeau & Doonesbury | Biography | Ep. 17

    Joshua Kendall reads from Trudeau & Doonesbury, his new biography of Garry Trudeau, the famously press-shy Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist. In this episode, we discuss a passage outlining the sexism found in strips Trudeau created during his undergraduate years as well as his evolution into more progressive, feminist politics as he reached the national stage. Josh talks to Jon and Cory about: Mining the two hundred boxes of papers that Trudeau had donated to YaleFinding Trudeau's crude early strips on his first day in the archives, and the doubts it raised about taking on the projectThe value of a good paper trail, and how phones, email, and texting have made biographers' jobs harderHis first biography of a living person, and why dead subjects are easier to write aboutApproaching his biography as if he were writing a nineteenth century novel, with his subject’s story as a bildungsromanHis membership in the Biographers International Organization and why biography is a relational problem before it's a writing problemRobert Caro's Working, and copying Caro's trick of standing in a place at the exact hour his subject would have been there Josh's passage: Trudeau himself would soon be shocked and disgusted by the blatant misogyny of his earliest strips. And within a few years of finishing Yale, he would be open about his own boorishness as an undergraduate. As he told journalist Katie Leishman in 1975, “I was singled out as the number one male chauvinist pig on campus. The woman had documented proof—you know, they'd print something about me and then submit a cartoon I'd drawn as People's Exhibit A. Of course, they were right. If you read those strips now, they'd turn your stomach. I did a lot of soul-searching and reading.” In September 72, Trudeau created the character of Joanie Caucus, who, he added, enabled him to address “women's problems in the context of real women.” But the sexism of Trudeau's earliest strips would eventually be mostly forgotten. In 1989, Emily Bazelon—the scribe for The New York Times Magazine was then a first year student at Yale— worked on a book of essays commemorating the twentieth anniversary of coeducation. “I stuck in a bunch of strips from Doonesbury,” she tells me. “It was a relief and very exciting to see his feminist sensibility,” she adds. When I allude to the earlier crude strips in bull tales about Mike's dating woes, Bazelon admits, “Well, I never knew about those!”

  7. Aug 11

    Dan Fesperman | Pariah | Spy Fiction | Ep. 15

    Bestselling spy novelist Dan Fesperman joins Cory and Jon to discuss Pariah, a satirical thriller about a disgraced comedian recruited by the CIA to spy on an authoritarian Eastern European regime. The passage he reads is a masterclass in building suspense through, let's say... unconventional narrative choices, balancing tension with humor, and crafting dialogue that feels anything but crafted.  We also discuss journalism as preparation for fiction, the beauty of the spy novel, the tradeoffs between creating fictional worlds and deeply researched real ones, and the disciplined writing routine that has produced more than a dozen novels over the past two decades. Dan’s passage, from Pariah:  The Passage: Pavel excused himself into the hallway, where he ducked into the door for the washroom. He was halfway to the urinals when he heard the door open behind him, followed by footsteps. A sidelong glance showed that it was Sarić, who stooped to pick up one of those rubber wedges that janitors use to hold open the door during cleaning. But Sarić jammed it beneath the door to hold it shut. They were locked in. Pavel, who felt as if he didn’t dare move, much less unzip his trousers, watched as Sarić quickly checked all three stalls to make sure they were empty. Then, still without a word, Sarić stepped over to a sink, where he unscrewed the cap of his orange water bottle, pulled out some sort of filter attachment with a plunger, and refilled the bottle. Pavel, who needed badly to pee, fidgeted as he watched this odd ritual. After filling the bottle, Sarić reinserted the filter plunger and pushed it to the bottom, the same way you made coffee with a French press. Sarić screwed the top back on and eyed Pavel carefully. “I suppose you think this is a foolish indulgence. I know that’s what others say.” “No. Not at all.” “They have the same attitude toward a lot of security precautions. ‘Oh, that’s harmless, why bother.’ Of course, they said that about Kelenić as well.” Sarić set the bottle onto the rim of the sink and faced Pavel from ten feet away, like a sheriff in an American western. Pavel crossed his feet and tried to hold it in, his bladder feeling like a water balloon that might burst at any moment. “So, what do you think?” Sarić asked. Pavel cleared his throat. “About what?” “The evening. And our American guest. The way he comported himself.” “I think it went as well as could be expected. The president seemed to enjoy his company.” “Yes, I think that is correct. In that sense, it was a success.” “I’m glad to know that.” “I don’t like him.” “Mr. Knight?” “He’s an actor. They’re paid to fool us.” “He’s really more of a comedian.” “Even worse. Watch. By the end of the week, he’ll have us laughing at ourselves. When people start doing that, they miss things. Important things.” “Yes, well… maybe we could use a few laughs.” “Fine, then. Laugh your way through the entire week. But don’t lose your focus, because you have a role to play, a job to do. For me.” Sarić closed the distance between them and clamped a hand on Pavel’s shoulder, the grip uncomfortably firm. Pavel had to shift his feet to hold his balance, even as he continued to concentrate on not peeing in his pants....

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About

The Passage is a literary podcast where authors read a passage from their own work and break down exactly how they wrote it, from the first spark of inspiration and the early drafts to the sentence-level decisions and the moment they knew it was finished. Guests span fiction, nonfiction, essays, and more, from novelists to memoirists to food and travel writers. Your hosts are Jon and Cory, two former book editors who love getting into the weeds of how writing actually gets made.

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