The Third Thing

Michelle Koffler & Danyelle Caruthers
  • 5.0 (14)
  • Relationships

A podcast Hosted by Michelle & Danyelle: a coach and a therapist, an interracial and queer best friend pair of 26 years. The Third Thing is where we are naming and confronting the topics that challenge us in platonic relationships. On friendship and race, money, sobriety, politics, when we drift or breakup, and the jealousy nobody admits to. Each week we spill the tea from our hurdles, and offer up the tools we’ve learned along the way. 

  1. 1d ago ·  Video

    S2E17: What to Do When You Don't Like Your Friend's Partner

    Every relationship or friend group has had this moment: your favorite person is dating someone you can't stand. Maybe it's just a values mismatch, or maybe it's something heavier from controlling behavior to verbal abuse, or worse. Either way, the question is the same: what's actually your job here, and where's the line between being a good friend and trying to run someone else's relationship? This week Danyelle and Michelle share the times they got this wrong, one who stayed quiet, one who rallied a full "intervention" campaign, and spoiler alert - neither ended up well. From there, they map out what actually helps: leading with curiosity instead of judgment, naming impact instead of verdicts, and knowing when "I don't love your partner" needs to become a real safety conversation. In This Episode Why "I don't click with your partner" usually isn't yours to fix or fully voiceThe therapist line, "They're the unit now", that uno-reversed Michelle's planLeading with impact on you ("I feel uncomfortable when...") instead of judgment of themWhy you're allowed to set limits on time together without trying to end the relationshipThe psychology of why we're drawn to familiar, sometimes unhealthy, relationship patternsHow to name concerning behavior without ultimatums or forcing a choiceSetting up a code word or safety check-inNational Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233, text START to 88788, or chat at thehotline.orgReflection Questions Is my discomfort about their safety, or about my own values and preferences?Am I trying to help my friend, or trying to be right?Have I made it safe for my friend to come to me if things get worse?Where's a boundary I could set for myself instead of trying to change their relationship?Resources Mentioned Our Boundaries workbook — available at thethirdthingpod.comNational Domestic Violence Hotline — 1-800-799-7233 / text START to 88788 / thehotline.orgConnect With Us 📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com 🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation about friendship, growth, and what it means to show up for each other going. Support the show

  2. Sep 17 ·  Video

    S2E16: Are You a Good Friend to Yourself? On Self-Abandonment and People-Pleasing

    You already know how to show up for a friend: feed them a home cooked meal, celebrate their wins or birthdays, meet their tears with grace. Now flip it around and look at how you treat yourself when no one's watching. This episode moves from the external work of friendship into the internal: what's actually happening in your nervous system when you people-please, fawn, or go quiet to keep the peace. Danyelle and Michelle break down people-pleasing as a form of self-abandonment, trace it back to IFS "parts" and protector instincts, and get honest about where they still do it from bridesmaid budgets to bracing for a partner walking through the door. In This Episode Why people-pleasing in friendship is often self-abandonment in disguiseIFS parts work: how protective parts formed to keep you safe, and why they can outlive their usefulnessFight, flight, freeze, and fawn: naming fawning as a nervous system response, not a personality traitReal stories: avoidance as a people-pleasing pattern, the maid-of-honor budget squeeze, and the "jolt off the couch" reflexChoosing a restaurant as a low-stakes place to practice saying what you actually wantThe pause-and-reframe tool for catching yourself mid-patternHow secure, "I got you" friendship still leaves room to say what isn't workingTarot pull: Knight of Wands — charging forward while staying in communication with yourselfReflection Questions Where in your life does people-pleasing show up as avoidance rather than agreement?What's one relationship where you'd benefit from naming a feeling out loud instead of letting it build?If your best friend heard your internal dialogue about yourself, would they recognize it as kind?Where do you already have a boundary you haven't set yet?Resources Mentioned "No Bad Parts" by Richard C. SchwartzTTT workbooks on attachment style, non-violent communication, and boundaries — available at thethirdthingpod.comConnect With Us 📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com 🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation about friendship, growth, and what it means to show up for each other going. Support the show

  3. Sep 10 ·  Video

    S2E15: "I Give More Than I Get" - On One Sided Friendship

    Everybody has that friend who remembers the birthdays, plans the trips, sends the text first or the friendship where they're the one always reaching out (which one are you?). Naming that out loud feels uncomfortable no matter which side you're on. But what if the imbalance you're keeping score of isn't actually about being cared for less? Michelle and Danyelle get into one-sided friendships and offer up a unique framework: over-functioning invites under-functioning, and neither role is good or bad. Rather, they're often trauma responses playing out in real time. Danyelle traces her under-functioning back to staying small and not taking up space; Michelle traces her over-functioning back to her mom's constant giving and a lifelong need to prove she's worthy of love. They connect this to attachment styles from Season 1, talk honestly about a friend who went quiet on Michelle for two months, and dig into capacity...how illness, parenthood, and life stage all shape what each person can actually show up with, and why that's not the same as how much they care. They close on delegation, love languages (and why Michelle can't stand that term), and a Tower-and-Sun pull about what has to fall apart before things get lighter. In This Episode: The framework: over-functioning invites under-functioning, and both are often nervous system responsesTracing over/under-functioning back to childhood and family patternsConnecting this to attachment styles — anxious and over-functioning, avoidant and under-functioningA real-time story: reaching out to a friend six times over two months with no response, and choosing not to take it personallyCapacity as a spectrum, and why it's not a measure of loveChronic illness, capacity, and living in a world that assumes able-bodiednessLearning to ask for what you need instead of resenting what isn't givenClosing tarot pull: The Tower and The SunReflection Questions: Are you the over-functioner or the under-functioner in most of your friendships and does that shift depending on who you're with?Is there a friendship where you've been keeping score without saying so out loud?Where in your life is capacity, not love, the real limiting factor?Resources Mentioned: Lena Dunham's Fame SickThe Third Thing workbooks: thethirdthingpod.comConnect With Us: 📍 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website + workbooks: thethirdthingpod.com 💛 Join the community on Patreon Support the show

  4. Sep 3 ·  Video

    S2E14: Why Making Friends as an Adult Feels So Hard (And What Actually Helps)

    You haven't had to walk into a room and introduce yourself in years, and then suddenly you do, and every old insecurity shows up at once. Making friends as an adult isn't just logistically harder than it was in middle school or college. It's a different game entirely, and most of us are playing it without ever being taught the rules. In this episode, Michelle and Danyelle break from their usual format to turn the lens outward: why does adult friendship take so much more intention than the friendships we made growing up? They trace the structures that used to make connection automatic, school, dorms, shared schedules, and what happens once those structures disappear. Danyelle tells the full story of her friendship with Bex, from a "let's hang out" that almost got written off as small talk to a bond that's now a business partnership and chosen family. Michelle gets honest about seeing herself as the sidekick instead of the main character, and how that story quietly shaped who she let close. Together, they get into the parts of us that show up to protect us in new rooms, the real fear underneath rejection, and how to actually shift the narrative before you walk in. In This Episode: Why the structures that made childhood friendship easy don't exist in adulthoodDanyelle's story of meeting Bex and the moment she realized "let's hang out" was realThe "sidekick vs. main character" narrative and how it shapes who you let inParts work: understanding the protector parts that show up when you enter new roomsReframing the fear of rejection — and giving yourself permission to leaveClosing tarot pull: the Six of Pentacles, reversedReflection Questions: What's the story you tell yourself walking into a room full of strangers?Where in your life are you still waiting for someone else to reach out first?Six of Pentacles, reversed, is about resistance to receiving — where might that show up for you in friendship?Resources Mentioned: The Third Thing workbooks: thethirdthingpod.comConnect With Us: 📍 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website + workbooks: thethirdthingpod.com 💛 Join the community on Patreon Support the show

  5. Aug 27 ·  Video

    S2E13: Chosen Family 101 - What Queer Culture Gets Right About Friendship

    Season Two opens with the episode we've been wanting to make since day one. Queerness has been a thread running under every conversation on this show, and this time Michelle and Danyelle pull it into the center. Danyelle grew up with two moms who fought on the front lines for marriage equality, and never had a coming out story of her own, queerness was just always an option. Michelle didn't have a close queer relationship until she met Danyelle, and spent longer finding her way there. Together they trace how queerness shaped their friendship, what it means to build a chosen family, and why queerness might be less about who you're attracted to and more about how you move through the world, your relationships, your rules, your sense of what's possible. In this episode: Danyelle's origin story: two moms, a politically active household, and growing up around the fight for marriage equalityThe Kinsey scale and what a peer sex-ed program taught them about the spectrum of sexualityMichelle's slower, more shame-shrouded relationship to her own sexuality growing upQueerness as culture, not just who you sleep withWhat it looked like to build a blended, chosen family across two moms and a dad living next doorThe 40% statistic: LGBTQ+ homeless youth, and why representation and chosen family matter so muchA Knight of Cups tarot pull to open the season, using The Crow Tarot deckReflection questions: Who is in your chosen family, and how did that family get built?Where in your life have you felt like you had to create your own roadmap instead of following one that was already laid out for you?Resources mentioned: Families We Choose by Kath Weston It Gets Better Project: itgetsbetter.org Connect with us: 📍 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website + workbooks: thethirdthingpod.com 💛 Join the community on Patreon Support the show

  6. Aug 20 ·  Video

    S1E12: Bonus Episode: Tarot Reading on Money, Scarcity, and Rest

    Ever wondered what actually happens in a tarot reading? Not the vague, Instagram-caption version, but a real one, with real questions, real doubt, and cards that don't let you off easy. In this bonus episode, Danyelle gives Michelle a live reading using the Crow Tarot deck, right as Michelle is heading into a trip during a stretch of financial uncertainty. What comes up is the Five of Pentacles, King of Wands reversed, and the Hierophant, plus a Saturn retrograde transit landing directly on Michelle's natal moon. Together they work through the difference between real scarcity and inherited scarcity, why this moment is asking for stillness instead of action, and what it looks like to finally give an old protective part of yourself permission to rest. In This Episode: How the Crow became part of TTT loreSetting intentions for a reading: focusing on the question, not the outcome The pull: Five of Pentacles, King of Wands (reversed), the HierophantFive of Pentacles and reframing scarcity as a moment, not an identityKing of Wands reversed and why rest can be its own kind of unwaveringThe infinity symbol and tarot's take on cyclical lessonsThe Hierophant and questioning inherited beliefs about safetySaturn retrograde on the natal moon and what the next six months are askingReassigning the scarcity part a new job...Reflection Questions: Where in your life are you focused on what's missing instead of what's already there?What old story about money or safety are you still carrying that no longer matches your reality?If your scarcity or fear had a new job, what would you want it to protect instead?Resources Mentioned: Book a reading with Danyelle: hello @ thethirdthingpod.com The Crow Tarot deck by MJ Cullinane Support the show

  7. Aug 13 ·  Video

    S1E11: Bonus Episode: On Becoming Podcasters and Going Viral

    We finished Season 1. Ten episodes, recorded and released, exactly the way we said we would. In this bonus episode, we're pulling back the curtain on what that actually took to pull it off. This isn't our typical episode, it's a real-time check-in between two best friends navigating what it means to build something new together. We talk about the shadow work that recording a podcast together has surfaced in our friendship, the wild ride of going viral (and what it was like to face that kind of attention together), the perfectionism and fear that come with being visible on social media for the first time, and what we've learned about taking care of each other in the middle of it all. In This Episode: What it's really been like recording Season 1 together as best friendsThe shadow work our friendship has surfaced through this processGoing viral: the numbers, the backlash, and how we got through itFacing perfectionism and fear around building a public platform from scratchWhat's coming in Season 2 — starting August 27Reflection Questions: Where in your own friendships do you avoid the harder conversations by putting distance between you instead?What would it look like to let yourself be new at something, without needing to be great at it right away?Who in your life makes you feel safe enough to grow, even when it's uncomfortable?FYI: Season 2 launches August 27Got a friendship story or dilemma? Send it to hello@thethirdthingpod.comConnect With Us: Follow along @thethirdthingpod on Instagram, and join us on Patreon for early access, community tarot readings, and more. Support the show

  8. Aug 6 ·  Video

    S1E10: On Friendship and the Grief of Drifting

    You know that friend you keep meaning to text back? The one where you scroll up in the thread and realize it's been six months, then a year, then you've lost track? There was no fight or blowup, just the silence that crept in until one day you looked up and they weren't in your circle anymore. That's drifting. This week, Michelle and Danyelle unpack the quiet ending nobody talks about: friendships that fade without a villain, a fight, or closure. They walk through the difference between structural drift (geography, life stages) and relational drift (just growing apart), and Michelle reads a real, unsent letter she wrote to a friend she's drifted from, a decade-plus friendship that dissolved into unanswered texts. They get into what it means to take accountability for your part in a drift without turning it into self-blame, and close out Season One with a two-card tarot pull on new beginnings and the foundation they've built together. In This Episode The difference between structural drift and relational driftWhy drifting can hurt more than a breakup because there's no closureDanyelle's story of a friendship that quietly faded over yearsMichelle reads the unsent letter she wrote to a drifted friendUsing letter-writing as a grief tool, and how to decide whether to send itTaking accountability for your part in a drift without self-blameA Season One wrap-up and a two-card pull: Page of Swords and Page of PentaclesResources Sign up for our guides: The Letter You'll Never Send and A Guide to Your Cut & Clear Ceremony Reflection Questions Which of your friendships has quietly faded without a clear reason why?Have you ever grieved a friendship you never officially "lost"?What would it take to reach back out, or to finally let it go?Connect With Us 📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com 🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation going about friendship, growth, and what it means to show up for each other. Support the show

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5
out of 5
14 Ratings

About

A podcast Hosted by Michelle & Danyelle: a coach and a therapist, an interracial and queer best friend pair of 26 years. The Third Thing is where we are naming and confronting the topics that challenge us in platonic relationships. On friendship and race, money, sobriety, politics, when we drift or breakup, and the jealousy nobody admits to. Each week we spill the tea from our hurdles, and offer up the tools we’ve learned along the way. 

Information

  • Creator
    Michelle Koffler & Danyelle Caruthers
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    18
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Third Thing
  • Show Website
    The Third Thing

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