Startups For the Rest of Us

Rob Walling
  • 4.9 (701)
  • Entrepreneurship
  • Updated Weekly

The original podcast for bootstrapped and mostly bootstrapped startups, this show follow the stories of founders as they start, acquire, and grow SaaS companies. Hear when they fail, struggle, succeed, and take you with them through the tumultuous life of a SaaS founder. If you like Mixergy, This Week in Startups, or SaaStr, you’ll enjoy Startup for the Rest of Us.

  1. 1d ago

    Episode 838 | 6 Key Takeaways From a TinySeed Batch Kick-Off

    What do 15 brand-new TinySeed founders have in common?  In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares six key takeaways from the most recent TinySeed batch kickoff in New York City. He covers why asking "why" is the most underrated founder habit, why pricing is still the biggest lever in SaaS and positioning might be the second biggest, why AI SEO is already a real channel and more. He also makes the case for why being around other founders doing what you're doing is one of the most underrated advantages in bootstrapping. Episode Sponsors: What if you could go from idea to your first real user in 30 days? Not a prototype, not a promise, but an actual working app. Designli will put that in writing. Their TractionLab is a 90-day plan that takes you from idea to first paying customers. By Day 30, v1 of your app is in your users' hands, guaranteed. Miss that deadline and your next month is free. It starts with a free 30-minute call where you share your idea and they tell you exactly what they'll build and what it costs. No surprises. You get a full senior team: product owner, engineering lead, full-stack developer, senior UX designer, and solutions architect. They use AI to ship faster, but senior engineers own every architecture decision and review every line of code. The result is yours, and it's built to last. Go from idea to revenue in 90 days: designli.co/gettraction Topics we cover: (5:59) – Takeaway #1: Always ask why (8:42) – Takeaway #2: New revenue fixes everything (except bad pricing) (10:29) – Takeaway #3: Positioning is the second biggest lever in SaaS (16:32) – Takeaway #4: Quick test for your lowest pricing tier (18:23) – Takeaway #5: AI SEO is a real channel (21:20) – Takeaway #6: Be around people doing what you're doing Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute TinySeed Mentors TinySeed Apply SignWell SavvyCal Senior Place  How to Perfectly Position Your B2B Brand in 34 Minutes | Microconf Talk by Anthony Pierri Episode 772 | A Highly Effective Framework for SaaS Positioning The SaaS Playbook Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

    26 min

  2. Jun 16

    Episode 837 | How Do You Learn Product? and Optimizing Your Trial Funnel (with Ruben Gamez)

    How does a founder actually learn the skill of product? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Ruben Gamez of SignWell and Bidsketch to answer listener questions that turned into a much deeper conversation than expected. They cover why friction works well for one of Ruben's products and kills conversions on the other, how to think about trial length and onboarding when users need more time, and what it actually takes to develop product instincts as a bootstrapped founder.  Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Topics we cover: (4:00) – Friction in trial funnels: Bidsketch vs. SignWell (8:26) – When to test friction vs. trust your gut (10:44) – Testing with low volume (16:56) – Trial length for project management SaaS (18:47) – How do you learn product? (21:39) – How Ruben developed product sense on the job (23:21) – The two core product skills bootstrappers actually need (29:42) – Product management vs. UX (31:46) – Why product sense doesn't transfer between products (34:07) – How fast you can build product sense Links from the show: SaaS Institute Cancun Retreat – Dec 5-7, 2026, exclusively for 7 & 8 figure SaaS founders | Waitlist: tracy@tinyseed.com  Sponsorship inquiries: sponsors@tinyseed.com   TinySeed SaaS Institute Shreyas Doshi Product Sense Course  Shreyas Doshi on YouTube  Ep 15 - Strategy Session | The Offsite Podcast  The Panel Podcast  SignWell Bidsketch  Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

    43 min

  3. Jun 9

    Episode 836 | The 5 A.I. Moats Acquirers Value Most

    Is your SaaS actually protected from AI disruption, or are acquirers walking away without even looking? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Einar Vollset of Discretion Capital for a front-lines SaaS M&A market report, covering how the acquisition climate has shifted since 2021, why some PE firms now require at least one AI moat before they'll even look at a deal, and a breakdown of all five moats: hardware-software coupling, two-sided network effects, communication graph embeds, proprietary data with closed feedback loops, and operational switching costs.  Topics we cover: (2:05) – State of SaaS M&A from 2020 to today (5:49) – Why 2021 was the best time to sell (7:38) – How the 2022 downturn raised the acquisition bar (8:59) – The SaaS apocalypse narrative and AI FUD (12:26) – Why bootstrappers should care about exit markets (15:52) – AI moat #1: Hardware-software coupling (17:38) – AI moat #2: Marketplace scale and two-sided network effects  (20:05) – AI moat #3: Communication graph and relationship embed (21:27) – AI moat #4: Proprietary data with closed feedback loops (23:20) – AI moat #5: Operational embed and switching costs (27:28) – Some PE firms now require at least one moat (29:23) – AI-native SaaS faces even higher hurdles Links from the show: MicroConf Connect Next Live Session: Jim Zarkadas on User-Friendly Onboarding (June 17)  TinySeed MicroConf YouTube The SaaS Playbook Discretion Capital M&A Guide Fiscal.ai  DealForma BuiltWith ZyraTalk EverCommerce  Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

    34 min

  4. Jun 2

    Episode 835 | The Right Way to Use AI in Your Startup Marketing

    Are you using AI in your marketing because it's actually good, or just because it's fast? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Taylor Hendricksen, a performance marketer who has managed tens of millions of dollars in ad spend across Meta and Google, to talk about where AI is genuinely useful and where it produces flat, mediocre output that makes you look like everyone else. They also dig into unconventional distribution channels, offer design, and why some of the best SaaS niches are the least exciting ones.  Episode Sponsor: Your AI-generated code got you to V1. Now it's holding you back. Vibe coding is incredible for speed. But the codebase it leaves behind? Hidden security gaps, duct-tape architecture, features that break every time you ship. At a certain point you need professional engineering discipline, not more prompting. That’s where Designli's Engineering Intensive comes in. In two weeks, senior engineers audit your code, stress-test your infrastructure, surface vulnerabilities, and deliver a prioritized roadmap to get scale-ready. Total clarity on your product's health, with a money-back guarantee. Schedule your Engineering Intensive at designli.co/fortherestofus. Podcast listeners can also redeem a free Designli Impact Week. Topics we cover: (5:04) – AI as boogeyman: proving value to customers (6:59) – Human-first content vs. AI-generated content (9:38) – Why AI produces average work by default (13:05) – AI is the average of the internet (16:18) – Overcoming artificial growth ceilings (20:26) – Finding your avatar and positioning around real problems (22:52) – Unconventional distribution: direct mail and video mailers (25:52) – Crafting offers people feel stupid saying no to (28:42) – Using AI for ops, research, and thought partnership Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute Rob Walling Email List The SaaS Playbook MicroConf | Community for Bootstrapped SaaS Founders Alex Hormozi YouTube Channel Incorruptible by Eric Ries  Taylor Hendricksen | LinkedIn If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

    32 min

  5. May 26

    Episode 834 | Eric Ries Revisits The Lean Startup and Discusses How to Become Incorruptible

    Is AI actually making your build-measure-learn cycle faster, or just making your work more average?  In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Eric Ries, author of The Lean Startup, to revisit what's held up in Lean Startup thinking 15 years on, why AI speeds up building but can't replace human learning, and what drove Eric to write his new book, Incorruptible. Eric also shares the story of how the Long-Term Stock Exchange nearly died before it ever launched, and why Costco is the rare example of a company that figured out how to stay incorruptible.  Topics we cover: (3:48) – Lean Startup: 15 years later (8:33) – How countercultural MVPs and pivots were (11:02) – How AI changes build-measure-learn (13:36) – Learning is still a human job (15:43) – AI makes everyone's work more average (17:39) – The Long-Term Stock Exchange story (21:03) – How LTSE was nearly destroyed (25:00) – A better definition of profit (31:45) – Companies already living this way (32:33) – The legend of Sol Price and Costco (37:36) – Incorruptible: ethos plus integrity Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute The SaaS Playbook Incorruptible by Eric Ries  The Lean Startup by Eric Ries Long-Term Stock Exchange (LTSE)  Eric Ries | LinkedIn Eric Ries (@ericries) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

    40 min

  6. May 19

    Episode 833 | Success Patterns of Nobel Laureates, Developing Expertise, and From Zero to $10k (A Rob Solo Adventure)

    What do Nobel Prize winners and successful bootstrappers have in common?  In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares the story of how a TinySeed company went from near-zero revenue to $10,000-$20,000 a month almost overnight, breaks down Claude Shannon's research on the habits that separated Nobel laureates from forgotten scientists, and explores why deep expertise looks like magic from the outside. Episode Sponsor: You're about to close a massive deal, and then your customer's legal team asks what happens if you get hacked.  That's the nightmare YSecurity solves. They're 40 security engineers who've worked at Apple, Uber, Microsoft, Robinhood, Brex, and more. You don't hire them, you rent them by the hour, no massive salary, no expensive consultants. Just real experts helping you get SOC 2, ISO, and more. Set a monthly cap, know exactly what you're spending, and close the deal.  Head to ysecurity.io/startups to book your free strategy call. Your first 8 hours are completely free. Topics we cover: (2:46) – BlinkMetrics: from no product-market fit to $10-20K/month (8:31) – 104 coffee chats, 24 sales calls  (10:25) – AI changes custom dashboard economics  (12:53) – What separates Nobel winners from the forgotten  (14:40) – Knowledge compounds like interest  (18:28) – Taking bigger swings vs. staying in your comfort zone (19:36) – Going deep on one idea for years  (21:21) – Expertise that looks like magic  Links from the show: MicroConf Europe ┃Reykjavik, Iceland · Sept 21–23, 2026 MicroConf Connect BlinkMetrics Claude Shannon Bell Labs lecture Why most indie hackers aren't succeeding┃Baretto (tiiny.com)  Stephen Curry got that sixth sense when it comes to the rim The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling TinySeed SaaS Accelerator Rob Walling on YouTube Rob Walling (@robwalling)┃X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes |Spotify

    29 min

  7. May 12

    Episode 832 | Going Full-time, When to Pivot, Building With Young Kids, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

    How do you leave a $400K salary to go all in on your business? In this solo episode, Rob Walling cranks through a backlog of listener questions on reducing risk with your startup to go full-time, when to register as a business, how to price a SaaS with seat ambiguity, when to pivot, and how to keep building when you have four kids under eight.  Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Episode Sponsor: Your AI-generated code got you to V1. Now it's holding you back. Vibe coding is incredible for speed. But the codebase it leaves behind? Hidden security gaps, duct-tape architecture, features that break every time you ship. At a certain point you need professional engineering discipline, not more prompting. That’s where Designli's Engineering Intensive comes in. In two weeks, senior engineers audit your code, stress-test your infrastructure, surface vulnerabilities, and deliver a prioritized roadmap to get scale-ready. Total clarity on your product's health, with a money-back guarantee. Schedule your Engineering Intensive at designli.co/fortherestofus. Podcast listeners can also redeem a free Designli Impact Week. Topics we cover: (2:15) – Leaving a $400K salary to go full-time (7:43) – When to officially register your business (10:51) – Seat-based pricing with shared branding (12:40) – When to get a design audit (15:05) – How to calculate TAM for a Shopify app (18:29) – Can a step one app break free of its marketplace? (20:22) – How to know when it's time to pivot (22:31) – Building a startup with four young kids (25:30) – How to find ICP conversations without a network Links from the show: MicroConf Connect Join by May 20th to attend a Live AMA with Rob Walling The SaaS Playbook Start Small, Stay Small  Reddit Thread: $30K to $440K in 7 Years (AMA) Stripe Atlas  I Grew This SaaS by 13% Every Month for 13 Months  Episode 589 | Finding a SaaS Idea Through 70 Cold Calls Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

    34 min

  8. May 5

    Episode 831 | Written vs. Verbal Ad Copy, Selling Into a Low-Awareness Market, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

    Should your first customer pay you, or get your product for free?  In this episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions on charging customer zero, what metrics to track for a seasonal transaction fee-based SaaS, what it really means to sell into a low-awareness market, and when freelancers help vs. hurt your bootstrapped business. He also calls in Producer Ron to break down exactly how he thinks about writing copy for a podcast ads. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Topics we cover: (2:42) – Six years to overnight success (4:55) – Should customer zero pay or get it free? (8:42) – Writing ad copy for podcast ads (15:14) – Metrics for a transaction fee-based SaaS (18:40) – Moving from GMV-only to subscription plus fees (20:38) – Selling into a low-awareness market (23:53) – When bootstrappers struggle without problem awareness (27:09) – Podcast music history editor Josh (31:44) – How to find and work with freelancers Links from the show: SaaS Launchpad TinySeed SaaS Accelerator MicroConf The SaaS Playbook Zell Wave by Josh Young - SoundCloud Dynamite Jobs New Rob’s VideoAsk  Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

    44 min
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4.9
out of 5
701 Ratings

About

The original podcast for bootstrapped and mostly bootstrapped startups, this show follow the stories of founders as they start, acquire, and grow SaaS companies. Hear when they fail, struggle, succeed, and take you with them through the tumultuous life of a SaaS founder. If you like Mixergy, This Week in Startups, or SaaStr, you’ll enjoy Startup for the Rest of Us.

Information

  • Creator
    Rob Walling
  • Years Active
    2010 - 2026
  • Episodes
    329
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Startups For the Rest of Us
  • Show Website
    Startups For the Rest of Us

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