Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Vasco Duarte, Agile Coach, Certified Scrum Master, Certified Product Owner

Every week day, Certified Scrum Master, Agile Coach and business consultant Vasco Duarte interviews Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches from all over the world to get you actionable advice, new tips and tricks, improve your craft as a Scrum Master with daily doses of inspiring conversations with Scrum Masters from the all over the world. Stay tuned for BONUS episodes when we interview Agile gurus and other thought leaders in the business space to bring you the Agile Business perspective you need to succeed as a Scrum Master. Some of the topics we discuss include: Agile Business, Agile Strategy, Retrospectives, Team motivation, Sprint Planning, Daily Scrum, Sprint Review, Backlog Refinement, Scaling Scrum, Lean Startup, Test Driven Development (TDD), Behavior Driven Development (BDD), Paper Prototyping, QA in Scrum, the role of agile managers, servant leadership, agile coaching, and more!

  1. 9H AGO

    The Sprint Planning That Wouldn't End - A Timeboxing Failure | Alex Sloley

    Alex Sloley: The Sprint Planning That Wouldn't End - A Timeboxing Failure Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "Although I knew about the steps of sprint planning, what I didn't really understand was the box of time versus the box of scope." - Alex Sloley Alex shares a critical learning moment from his first team as a Scrum Master. After six months in the role, during an eight-hour sprint planning session for a four-week sprint, he successfully completed the "what" portion but ran out of time before addressing "how." Rather than respecting the timebox, Alex forced the team to continue planning for another four hours the next day—blowing the timebox by 50%. This experience taught him a fundamental lesson: the difference between scope-boxing and timeboxing. In waterfall, we try to control scope while time slips away. In Scrum, we fix time and let scope adjust. Alex emphasizes that timeboxing isn't just about keeping meetings short—it's about limiting work in process and maintaining focus. His practical tip: use visible timers to train yourself and your teams to respect timeboxes. This mindset shift from controlling scope to respecting time remains one of the most important lessons for Scrum Masters. Self-reflection Question: How often do you prioritize completing a planned agenda over respecting the timebox? What message does this send to your team about the values you're reinforcing? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Alex Sloley Alex believes that a great Scrum Master can have a long and lasting impact on people and teams. He is a global agile and product management evangelist, author of The Agile Community, and frequent international speaker. A former Microsoft leader with 15 years' experience, he now trains, coaches, and drives transformations worldwide. Certified across Scrum, ICAgile, and Kanban, Alex energizes communities, guides leaders, and—yes—enjoys good beer. You can link with Alex Sloley on LinkedIn.

    16 min
  2. 2D AGO

    BONUS: The Evolution of Agile - From Project Management to Adaptive Intelligence | Mario Aiello

    BONUS: The Evolution of Agile - From Project Management to Adaptive Intelligence, With Mario Aiello In this BONUS episode, we explore the remarkable journey of Mario Aiello, a veteran agility thinker who has witnessed and shaped the evolution of Agile from its earliest days. Now freshly retired, Mario shares decades of hard-won insights about what works, what doesn't, and where Agile is headed next. This conversation challenges conventional thinking about methodologies, certifications, and what it truly means to be an Agile coach in complex environments. The Early Days: Agilizing Before Agile Had a Name "I came from project management and project management was, for me, was not working. I used to be a wishful liar, basically, because I used to manipulate reports in such a way that would please the listener. I knew it was bullshit." Mario's journey into Agile began around 2001 at Sun Microsystems, where he was already experimenting with iterative approaches while the rest of the world was still firmly planted in traditional project management. Working in Palo Alto, he encountered early adopters discussing Extreme Programming and had an "aha moment" - realizing that concepts like short iterations, feedback loops, and learning could rescue him from the unsustainable madness of traditional project management. He began incorporating these ideas into his work with PRINCE2, calling stages "iterations" and making them as short as possible. His simple agile approach focused on: work on the most important thing first, finish it, then move to the next one, cooperate with each other, and continuously improve. The Trajectory of Agile: From Values to Mechanisms "When the craze of methodologies came about, I started questioning the commercialization and monetization of methodologies. That's where things started to get a little bit complicated because the general focus drifted from values and principles to mechanisms and metrics." Mario describes witnessing three distinct phases in Agile's evolution. The early days were authentic - software developers speaking from the heart about genuine needs for new ways of working. The Agile Manifesto put important truths in front of everyone. However, as methodologies became commercialized, the focus shifted dangerously away from the core values and principles toward prescriptive mechanisms, metrics, and ceremonies. Mario emphasizes that when you focus on values and principles, you discover the purpose behind changing your ways of working. When you focus only on mechanics, you end up just doing things without real purpose - and that's when Agile became a noun, with people trying to "be agile" instead of achieving agility. He's clear that he's not against methodologies like Scrum, XP, SAFe, or LeSS - but rather against their mindless application without understanding the essence behind them. Making Sense Before Methodology: The Four-Fit Framework "Agile for me has to be fit for purpose, fit for context, fit for practice, and I even include a fourth dimension - fit for improvement." Rather than jumping straight to methodology selection, Mario advocates for a sense-making approach. First, understand your purpose - why do you want Agile? Then examine your context - where do you live, how does your company work? Only after making sense of the gap between your current state and where the values and principles suggest you should be, should you choose a methodology. This might mean Scrum for complex environments, or perhaps a flow-based approach for more predictable work, or creating your own hybrid. The key insight is that anyone who understands Agile's principles and values is free to create their own approach - it's fundamentally about plan, do, inspect, and adapt. Learning Through Failure: Context is Paramount "I failed more often than I won. That teaches you - being brave enough to say I failed, I learned, I move on because I'm going to use it better next time." Mario shares pivotal learning moments from his career, including an early attempt to "agilize PRINCE2" in a command-and-control startup environment. While not an ultimate success, this battle taught him that context is paramount and cannot be ignored. You must start by understanding how things are done today - identifying what's good (keep doing it), what's bad (try to improve it), and what's ugly (eradicate it to the extent possible). This lesson shaped his next engagement at a 300-person organization, where he spent nearly five months preparing the organizational context before even introducing Scrum. He started with "simple agile" practices, then took a systems approach to the entire delivery system. A Systems Approach: From Idea to Cash "From the moment sales and marketing people get brilliant ideas they want built, until the team delivers them into production and supports them - all that is a system. You cannot have different parts finger-pointing." Mario challenges the common narrow view of software development systems. Rather than focusing only on prioritization, development, and testing, he advocates for considering everything that influences delivery - from conception through to cash. His approach involved reorganizing an entire office floor, moving away from functional silos (sales here, marketing there, development over there) to value stream-based organization around products. Everyone involved in making work happen, including security, sales, product design, and client understanding, is part of the system. In one transformation, he shifted security from being gatekeepers at the end of the line to strategic partners from day one, embedding security throughout the entire value stream. This comprehensive systems thinking happened before formal Scrum training began. Beyond the Job Description: What Can an Agile Coach Really Do? "I said to some people, I'm not a coach. I'm just somebody that happens to have experience. How can I give something that can help and maybe influence the system?" Mario admits he doesn't qualify as a coach by traditional standards - he has no formal coaching qualifications. His coaching approach comes from decades of Rugby experience and focuses on establishing relationships with teams, understanding where they're going, and helping them make sense of their path forward. He emphasizes adaptive intelligence - the probe, sense, respond cycle. Rather than trying to change everything at once and capsizing the boat, he advocates for challenging one behavior at a time, starting with the most important, encouraging adaptation, and probing quickly to check for impact of specific changes. His role became inviting people to think outside the box, beyond the rigidity of their training and certifications, helping individuals and teams who could then influence the broader system even when organizational change seemed impossible. The Future: Adaptive Intelligence and Making Room for Agile "I'm using a lot of adaptive intelligence these days - probe, sense, respond, learn and adapt. That sequence will take people places." Looking ahead, Mario believes the valuable core of Agile - its values and principles - will remain, but the way we apply them must evolve. He advocates for adaptive intelligence approaches that emphasize sense-making and continuous learning rather than rigid adherence to frameworks. As he enters retirement, Mario is determined to make room for Agile in his new life, seeking ways to give back to the community through his blog, his new Substack "Adaptive Ways," and by inviting others to think differently. He's exploring a "pay as you wish" approach to sharing his experience, recognizing that while he may not be a traditional coach or social media expert, his decades of real-world experience - with its failures and successes - holds value for those still navigating the complexity of organizational change. About Mario Aiello Retired from full-time work, Mario is an agility thinker shaped by real-world complexity, not dogma. With decades in VUCA environments, he blends strategic clarity, emotional intelligence, and creative resilience. He designs context-driven agility, guiding teams and leaders beyond frameworks toward genuine value, adaptive systems, and meaningful transformation. You can link with Mario Aiello on LinkedIn, visit his website at Agile Ways.

    44 min
  3. 3D AGO

    Analytics From Day One and Four Other Principles of Great POs | Renee Troughton

    Renee Troughton: Analytics From Day One and Four Other Principles of Great POs Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "Product owners who think about their products as just a backlog that I prioritize, and I get some detailed requirements from stakeholders, and I give that to the team... that's not empowering the team. And it's probably leading you to building the wrong thing, just faster." The Bad Product Owner: The Backlog Manager Without Vision Renee describes a pattern of Product Owners who don't understand product management—they lack roadmaps, strategy, and never speak to customers. These POs focus solely on backlogs, prioritizing detailed requirements from stakeholders without testing hypotheses or learning about their market. Taking an empathetic view, Renee notes these individuals may have fallen into the role without passion, never seeing what excellence looks like, and struggling with extreme time poverty. Product ownership is one of the hardest roles from a time perspective—dealing with legislative requirements, compliance, risk, fail-and-fix work, and constant incoming demands. Drowning in day-to-day urgency, they lack breathing space for strategic thinking.  These POs also struggle with vulnerability, feeling they should have all answers as leaders, making it difficult to admit knowledge gaps. Without organizational safety to fail, they can't demonstrate the confidence balanced with humility needed to test hypotheses and potentially be wrong. The result is building the wrong thing faster, without empowering teams or creating real value. Self-reflection Question: Are you managing your Product Owners' workload and supporting their strategic thinking time, or are you allowing them to drown in tactical work that prevents them from truly leading their products? The Great Product Owner: Analytics from Day One and Market Awareness "They really iterated, I think, 5 key principles quite consistently... the one thing that did really shape my thinking at that time was... Analytics from day one." Renee celebrates a Chief Product Owner who led 13 teams with extraordinary effectiveness. This PO consistently communicated five key principles, with "analytics from day one" being paramount—emphasizing the critical need to know immediately if new features work and understanding customer behavior from launch. This PO demonstrated deep market awareness, regularly spending time in Silicon Valley, understanding innovation trends and where the industry was heading. They maintained a clear product vision and could powerfully sell the dream to stakeholders.  Perhaps most impressively, they brought urgency during a competitive "space race" situation when a former leader left with intellectual property to build a competing product. Despite this pressure, they never allowed compromise on quality—rallying teams with mission and purpose while maintaining standards. This combination of strategic vision, market knowledge, data-driven decision-making, and balanced urgency created an environment where teams delivered excellence under competitive pressure. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee’s work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast.  You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.

    14 min
  4. 4D AGO

    How Vulnerability Creates Magic in Agile Leadership | Renee Troughton

    Renee Troughton: From Lower-Order to Higher-Order Values in Scrum Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "If you, as a senior leader, demonstrate vulnerability, it creates real magic in an organization where others can open up and be their authentic self." Renee defines success for Scrum Masters through deeply human values: integrity, holding her truth, being compassionately authentic, caring, open, honest, listening, and vulnerable. She emphasizes that vulnerability as a senior leader creates transformative magic in organizations, allowing others to bring their authentic selves to work. Drawing on Byron Katie's "Loving What Is" and Frederick Laloux's "Reinventing Organizations," Renee explains that many corporate organizations focus on lower-order values like results and performance, while more autonomous organizations prioritize higher-order values rooted in the heart. When having conversations with people, Renee connects with them as human beings first—not rushing to business if someone is struggling personally. Success means seeing people completely for who they are, not as resources to be changed or leveraged. The foundation for collaboration, empowerment, and autonomy is trust, respect, and safety. Renee emphasizes that without these fundamental values in place, everything else implodes. She demonstrates how vulnerability, active listening, and accepting people where they are creates the fertile ground for successful teams and organizations. Self-reflection Question: Do you demonstrate vulnerability as a leader, creating space for others to bring their authentic selves to work, or do you hide behind a professional facade that prevents genuine human connection? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Themed Retrospectives (Monopoly, Sports, Current Events) "It gave a freshness to it. And it gave almost like a livelihood or a joyfulness to it as an activity as well." Renee recommends themed retrospectives like the Monopoly Retro or sports-themed formats that use current events or cultural references (aka metaphor retrospectives). While working at a consultancy, they would theme retrospectives every week around different topics—football, news events, or various scenarios—using collages of pictures showing different emotions (upset, angry, happy). Team members would identify with feelings and reframe their week within the theme's context, such as "it was a rough game" or "we didn't score enough goals." The brilliance of this approach is covering the same retrospective questions while bringing freshness, creativity, and joyfulness to the activity. These metaphorical formats allow teams to verbalize things that aren't easily expressible in structured formats, triggering different perspectives and creative thinking. The format stays consistent while feeling completely new, maintaining engagement while avoiding retrospective fatigue. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee’s work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast.  You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.

    16 min
  5. 5D AGO

    Managing Dependencies and Downstream Bottlenecks in Scrum | Renee Troughton

    Renee Troughton: Managing Dependencies and Downstream Bottlenecks in Scrum Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "For the actual product teams, it's not a problem for them... It's more the downstream teams that aren't the product teams, that are still dependencies... They just don't see that work until, hey, we urgently need this." Renee brings a dual-edged challenge from her current work with dozens of teams across multiple business lines. While quarterly planning happens at a high level, small downstream teams—middleware, AI, data, and even non-technical teams like legal—are not considered in the planning process. These teams experience unexpected work floods with dramatic peaks and troughs throughout the quarter. The product teams are comfortable with ambiguity and incremental delivery, but downstream service teams don't see work coming until it arrives urgently. Through a coaching conversation, Renee and Vasco explore multiple experimental approaches: top-to-bottom stack ranking of initiatives, holding excess capacity based on historical patterns, shared code ownership where downstream teams advise rather than execute changes, and using Theory of Constraints to manage flow into bottleneck teams. They discuss how lack of discovery work compounds the problem, as teams "just start working" without identifying all players who need involvement. The solution requires balancing multiple strategies while maintaining an experimentation mindset, recognizing that complex systems require sensing our way toward solutions rather than predicting them. Self-reflection Question: Are you actively managing the flow of work to prevent downstream bottlenecks, or are you allowing your "downstream teams" to be repeatedly overwhelmed by last-minute urgent requests? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee’s work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast.  You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.

    17 min
  6. 6D AGO

    The Hidden Cost of Constant Restructuring in Agile Organizations | Renee Troughton

    Renee Troughton: The Hidden Cost of Constant Restructuring in Agile Organizations Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "Trust and safety are the most fundamental foundations of a team to perform. And so you are just breaking the core of teams when you're doing this." Renee challenges us to look beyond team dysfunction and examine the "dirty little secrets" in organizations—leadership-driven anti-patterns that destroy team performance. She reveals a cyclical pattern of constant restructuring that occurs every six months in many organizations, driven by leaders who avoid difficult performance management conversations and instead force people through redundancy rounds. This creates a cascade of fear, panic, and victim mindset throughout the organization. Beyond restructuring, Renee identifies other destructive patterns including the C-suite shuffle (where new CEOs bring in their own teams, cascading change throughout the organization) and the insourcing/outsourcing swings that create chaos over 5-8 year cycles. These high-level decisions drain productivity for months as teams storm and reform, losing critical knowledge and breaking the trust and safety that are fundamental for high performance. Renee emphasizes that as Agile coaches and Scrum Masters, we often don't feel empowered to challenge these decisions, yet they represent the biggest drain on organizational productivity. Self-reflection Question: Have you identified the cyclical organizational anti-patterns in your workplace, and do you have the courage to raise these systemic issues with senior leadership? Featured Book of the Week: Loving What Is by Byron Katie "It teaches you around how to reframe your thoughts in the day-to-day life, to assess them in a different light than you would normally perceive them to be." Renee recommends "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie as an essential tool for Scrum Master introspection. This book teaches practical techniques for reframing thoughts and recognizing that problems we perceive "out there" are often internal framing issues. Katie's method, called "The Work," provides a worksheet-based approach to introspection that helps identify when our perceptions create unnecessary suffering. Renee also highlights Marshall Rosenberg's "Nonviolent Communication" as a companion book, which uses language to tap into underlying emotions and needs. Both books offer practical, actionable techniques for self-knowledge—a critical skill for anyone in the Scrum Master role. The journey these books provide leads to inner peace through understanding that many challenges stem from how we internally frame situations rather than external reality. We have many episodes on NVC, Nonviolent Communication, which you can dive into and learn from experienced practitioners.  [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee’s work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast.  You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.

    16 min
  7. OCT 13

    When Leadership Says "Just Make It Work" in Agile | Renee Troughton

    Renee Troughton: How to Navigate Mandatory Deadlines in Scrum Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "I said to the CIO at the time, we're not going to hit this. In fact, we'll be... I can actually tell you, we're gonna be 3 weeks late... And he said: ‘Just make it work!’" Renee shares a powerful story from her work on a mandatory legislative compliance project where reality clashed with executive expectations. Working with a team new to Agile, she carefully established velocity over two sprints and projected the delivery timeline. The challenge intensified when sales continued promising bespoke features to clients while the deadline remained fixed. Despite transparently communicating the team would miss the mandatory date by three weeks, leadership demanded she "just make it work" without providing solutions. Renee found herself creating a misleading burn-up chart to satisfy executive confidence, while the organization played a dangerous game of chicken—waiting for another implementer to admit delays first. This experience taught her the critical importance of courage in conversations with leaders and the need to clearly separate business decisions from development team responsibilities. Sometimes the best we can do is provide transparency and let leaders own the consequences of their choices. In this episode, we refer to the seminal book on large projects: The Mythical Man Month, by Frederick Brooks. Self-reflection Question: When faced with unrealistic demands from leadership, do you have the courage to maintain transparency about your team's reality, even when it means refusing to create false artifacts of confidence? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee’s work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast.  You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.

    15 min
  8. OCT 10

    BONUS: Consulting is Different—How Consulting Contracts Work Against Agile Development | Jakob Wolman, Wilko Nienhaus

    BONUS: Consulting is Different—How Consulting Contracts Work Against Agile Development, With Jakob Wolman and Wilko Nienhaus  In this BONUS episode, we explore the critical differences between building software as a consultant versus inside a product company. Jakob Wolman contributed an insightful article to the Global Agile Summit book examining how third-party software development operates under entirely different constraints than in-house product development. Joined by Wilko Nienhaus, CTO of Vaimo, a consulting company in Estonia, we dive into ownership dynamics, misaligned incentives, contracting challenges, and the business pressures that shape consulting—along with practical stories from the field about what really works. The Cobbler's Shoes Problem "I come back to the office from this workshop, and suddenly, with these eyes on looking for improvements in process, I just suddenly am hit by this revelation of why things are so slow here? Why are we working so inefficiently?" Jakob describes the striking paradox many consultancies face: they excel at helping clients improve their processes while their own internal operations remain inefficient. This "shoemaker's children" phenomenon reflects a fundamental challenge in consulting—the difficulty of investing in your own improvements when all energy flows toward billable client work. Digital agencies often have outdated or poorly implemented websites despite building sophisticated solutions for others, illustrating how consultancies struggle to apply their own expertise internally. Misaligned Incentives Create Antagonistic Dynamics "It's almost as if the clients are actually paying us to be slow, because our incentive is to spend more time on achieving what the client wants, because we get paid by the hour." The incentive structures in consulting create inherent conflicts that don't exist in product companies. Consultants typically bill by the hour, creating a perverse incentive to spend more time rather than deliver efficiently. Meanwhile, clients pursue business outcomes and want results as quickly and cheaply as possible. This fundamental misalignment leads to: Clients adopting a procurement mindset, treating software development like ordering from a catalog A "wall" between stakeholders and development teams that's even stronger than in product companies Antagonistic relationships where scope changes feel like financial traps rather than necessary learning Contracting processes that reinforce waterfall thinking even when both parties claim to want agility Wilko emphasizes that contracting has a huge impact on these dynamics, and companies must deliberately change their engagement models to break free from these patterns. The Budgeting Trap and Specification Overload "Because of this budgeting process where you now need to motivate what this budget does, or you need to spend that budget, you essentially create this necessity to define everything." Consulting projects often suffer from the same problem that plagued waterfall development: annual budgeting cycles that force stakeholders to cram everything into a single specification. When there's only one chance per year to secure funding, everyone stuffs the requirements document with every conceivable feature, leading to: Massive specifications that attempt to predict all needs upfront Endless discovery meetings and documentation that add cost without improving outcomes Developers working from outdated assumptions with delayed feedback Clients who don't really know what they want but feel pressured to specify everything Jakob points out the frustration that "we've already fixed this problem" in product development through iterative approaches, yet it keeps reappearing in consulting because of the separation between entities. Ownership and Quality in Consulting Environments "Skilled engineers will be frustrated if they're not allowed to do a proper job. People that have spent a lot of time in an environment where they're never allowed to do a proper job, or maybe even punished for doing a proper job, they will have given up, and not care." The difference in ownership between product and consulting development profoundly affects how engineers think about quality, technical debt, and long-term design. In product companies, developers know they'll maintain their code, creating natural incentives for quality. In consulting, the transient nature of engagements can erode quality standards. Key challenges include: Engineers knowing they won't return to the codebase, reducing long-term thinking Clients who lack technical expertise dictating approaches they don't understand Pressure to complete fixed-scope contracts regardless of quality trade-offs The role of estimates in forcing teams to "just complete this thing" even when learning suggests changes Wilko notes that teams controlled by clients versus teams managed as stable units by the consultancy show markedly different levels of ownership and engagement. Engineers want to do great work, but without real-world feedback loops, they may either overengineer based on theoretical ideals or give up on quality entirely. Breaking the Cycle: Going Live in Two Weeks "We said to them, what if we try to actually go live in a single sprint, which in most companies is 2 weeks. And they were like, nah, we're not so sure. And we said, don't worry, you're going to get everything you want in your scope by the end. But just let's try these first 2 weeks." Wilko shares a transformative story about an e-commerce project where his team convinced a client to abandon their two-year roadmap and instead focus on going live with something—anything—in two weeks. The goal: enable one existing customer to place one order for one product they already knew. This constraint forced radical prioritization. The team didn't need images, extensive product catalogs, or elaborate descriptions. They delivered a minimal but functioning system, and the results were revelatory: The client's internal discussion shifted from "we need everything" to "what should we prioritize next?" Real customer interaction revealed unexpected problems, like internal incentive conflicts where salespeople wouldn't direct customers to the website because it threatened their commissions Senior leadership embraced the iterative approach more readily than middle management The faster feedback cycle enabled genuine agility even in a consulting context This story demonstrates that iterative approaches are more likely to lead to success in consulting, and that senior leadership is often more receptive to faster feedback cycles than people expect. The key is changing the dynamic from "deliver a complete spec" to "let's go live quickly and learn." AI as a Game-Changer for Consulting Dynamics "The groundbreaking thing that's happening right now is AI, and it really feeds into this direction. Because instead of speaking, you can actually be building, you can see things, you can do stuff that you can really test in a much more real way than you could just a few years ago." Both Jakob and Wilko see artificial intelligence as a potential solution to many consulting challenges. AI tools enable rapid prototyping and visualization, allowing teams to show rather than tell. This addresses the fundamental problem that clients don't know what they want until they see it, by dramatically reducing the cost of creating tangible demonstrations that generate meaningful feedback. If you want to know more about how AI is reshaping programming, check out our AI Assisted Coding series of episodes.  Quality and Testing Should Not Be Negotiable "I just simply think it shouldn't be a choice. We have to be very firm on this is how we work. We are the experts you are paying us." When clients ask to skip testing, reduce code reviews, or cut corners on infrastructure, Jakob argues consultancies must stand firm. Quality practices shouldn't be line items that clients can negotiate away. One consulting company that works strictly with Extreme Programming principles demonstrates this approach—they don't explain every detail to clients, but they clearly establish that "this is how we do all our projects. It's not a choice." Wilko adds that testing often saves time rather than adding cost, serving as a development tool that eliminates repetitive manual verification. The challenge comes during estimation, where padding for testing can make consultancies less competitive, creating pressure to compromise on quality. Jakob emphasizes that some responsibility lies with consultancies themselves, which sometimes over-promise and underbid to win business, then struggle to deliver quality within unrealistic constraints. This "race to the bottom" hurts the entire industry. The Path Forward: Deliberate Collaboration "It is fixable in a consultancy setting as well. I've seen it. I've been part of it. But you have to be very deliberate in your collaboration with the customer." Success in consulting requires deliberately designing the engagement model to support iterative development: Working backward from customer needs, not forward from specifications Establishing short feedback loops with both client stakeholders and end users Creating stable teams rather than assembling ad-hoc groups based on client requests Changing contracting models to align incentives (as explored in Sven Ditz's article in the Global Agile Summit book on delivering incrementally) Being firm about quality practices while remaining flexible about features Using AI and rapid prototyping to generate early, concrete feedback The consulting model doesn't have to default to waterfall, but it requires conscious effort to overcome the structural forces pushing in that direction. 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Every week day, Certified Scrum Master, Agile Coach and business consultant Vasco Duarte interviews Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches from all over the world to get you actionable advice, new tips and tricks, improve your craft as a Scrum Master with daily doses of inspiring conversations with Scrum Masters from the all over the world. Stay tuned for BONUS episodes when we interview Agile gurus and other thought leaders in the business space to bring you the Agile Business perspective you need to succeed as a Scrum Master. Some of the topics we discuss include: Agile Business, Agile Strategy, Retrospectives, Team motivation, Sprint Planning, Daily Scrum, Sprint Review, Backlog Refinement, Scaling Scrum, Lean Startup, Test Driven Development (TDD), Behavior Driven Development (BDD), Paper Prototyping, QA in Scrum, the role of agile managers, servant leadership, agile coaching, and more!

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