Tertiary

Heaven-Leigh and Justin
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  • UPDATED BIWEEKLY

Neither your primary nor secondary source for news, culture, and critical thinking: Meet Tertiary, a podcast from two people you’ve never heard of—Heaven-Leigh and Justin—who went to grad school together and can’t shake the feeling that talking it out is better than doomscrolling. Join us every other week to laugh, cry, and digest whatever we’re watching, reading, and thinking about. No degree necessary.

Episodes

  1. EP5: Intersectionality, Privilege, Identity

    APR 7

    EP5: Intersectionality, Privilege, Identity

    Identity politics are more contentious, today, than ever. As the cultural tug-o-war wages on, your Tertiary hosts Heaven-Leigh and Justin take a step back to examine the ways race, gender, and sex politics overlap and interact. Leaning on Kimberlé Crenshaw’s pivotal text defining “Intersectionality,” we touch on everything from white fragility and representation in media to current events like BLM and ICE protests, for your listening pleasure.    Want to be a part of the Tertiary community? Follow us on Instagram, send us an email at tertpod@gmail.com or fill out our Google Form to submit a question that we’ll answer in a future episode. We want to hear from you!    Our intro and outro music comes from “Cloud Dancer” by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0.   Assigned Reading: “Demarginalizing the Intersection of Race and Sex: A Black Feminist Critique of Antidiscrimination Doctrine, Feminist Theory and Antiracist Politics,” (University of Chicago Legal Form) by Kimberlé Crenshaw (read it here) “Kimberlé Crenshaw on Intersectionality More Than Two Decades Later,” (Columbia Law School) interview (read it here) “‘2020 Never Ended:’ How Black Lives Matter Organizers Taught Minneapolis to Handle ICE Surge,” (The Guardian) by Alyssa Oursler (read it here)

    1 hr
  2. EP4: Adoption, Utopia, the Welfare State

    MAR 24

    EP4: Adoption, Utopia, the Welfare State

    In one of Tertiary’s rowdiest episodes yet, co-hosts Heaven-Leigh and Justin explore the politics of the American family unit—namely, the complicated culture of adoption in the United States. Beginning with Heaven-Leigh’s personal experience as an adoptee, we touch on everything from America’s hazy history of cultural anesthetization (both vis-à-vis transracial adoption and American Indian boarding schools) to Plato’s orgiastic vision for communal child rearing. In the outtakes, Heaven-Leigh and Justin rehash the reality T.V. debate for a third and final time (I swear we’re done) and broach the subject of Hello Kitty’s perplexing biography… apparently, she’s not a cat? So says the internet? Jury’s still out.  In typical Tertiary fashion, we ask more questions than we answer, but the team is eager to hear your feedback, so send us an email at tertpod@gmail.com or fill out our Google Form and let us know what you think. We want to hear from you!   Assigned Reading: Choosing Ethnicity, Negotiating Race: Korean Adoptees in America (Russell Sage Foundation, 2012), by Mia Tuan and Jiannbin Lee Shiao (find it here) Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Bold Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Life (Simon & Shuster, 2024), by Kristen R. Ghodsee (find it here), chapter 3 (“Kids as Public Goods”) and chapter 7 (“You and Me and Baby Makes Misery”) “Interesting Times with Ross Douthat” (NY Times) (listen here)   Further Reading / Watching  The Player of Games by Iain M. Banks; What do Women Want by Daniel Bergner; Hello Kitty is a Little Girl?? (watch here)    Our intro and outro music comes from “Cloud Dancer” by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0.

    52 min
  3. EP3: Ursula K Le Guin, Science Fiction, the End of the World

    MAR 10

    EP3: Ursula K Le Guin, Science Fiction, the End of the World

    It’s dreary out there, folks. Not just because Punxsutawney Phil cursed us with six more weeks of winter, either—the world has become a particularly dark place over the past few weeks.    With that in mind, this week Tertiary hosts Heaven-Leigh and Justin crack a window to let in a little fresh air and tackle questions like: How can art be a survival tool? What does speculative fiction have to teach us, not only about enduring difficult times but imagining better worlds? Winding their way through examples of dystopian action thrillers, post-apocalyptic survival films and bingeable zombie series, this episode considers the open question of humanity’s survival from a bird’s eye view.    Speaking of birds, Justin and Heaven-Leigh also find time to settle the Pigeon versus Crow debate, speculate whether the Last Supper was the first murder mystery, and—as appears to be a recurring topic—discuss the importance of reality TV, “white noise” television, and other forms of mindless entertainment.    Want to be a part of the Tertiary community? Follow us on Instagram, send us an email at tertpod@gmail.com or fill out our Google Form to submit a question that we’ll answer in a future episode. We want to hear from you!    Assigned Reading The Left Hand of Darkness, 50th Anniversary Edition (Ace, 1987), by Ursula K Le Guin, “Author’s Note” (find the edition referenced here) The Road (Vintage, 2007), by Cormac McCarthy (find it here) “Doomsday Preppers and the Architecture of Dread” (Geoforum, December 2021), by Bradley Garrett (read it here)   Further Reading / Watching The Once and Future King by T. H. White; Octavia’s Brood: Science Fiction Stories from Social Justice Movements edited by Adrienne Maree Brown and Walidah Imarisha; The Road, narrated by Tom Stechschulte, and the film; Tales from Earthsea by Ursula K Le Guin; Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents by Octavia E. Butler; Solaris by Stanisław Lem.   And as promised, ”A Bird Hit My Window and Now I’m a Lesbian.”   Our intro and outro music comes from “Cloud Dancer” by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0.

    53 min
  4. EP2: “Wake Up Dead Man,” William James, Religion

    FEB 24

    EP2: “Wake Up Dead Man,” William James, Religion

    You just know a podcast is going to be good when it begins with the words: “I’ve been thinking about God, lately.”    This week, Tertiary co-hosts Heaven-Leigh and Justin discuss the latest installment in Rian Johnson’s “Knives Out” series of films, Wake Up Dead Man (2025). Along the way, they break down their personal experiences with religion through the lens of William James’ theory that if a religion produces positive “fruits” (i.e., if a religion makes an individual more courageous, charitable, and better functioning in life) then it is both valuable and true.    What is true? What does it mean to believe in something? What value does religion offer society? Big questions guide the conversation this week—Christian nationalism, religious extremism, fear mongering alike—and, while we don’t pretend to have any of the answers, we’re excited to dive into the grey area with you.   Want to be a part of the Tertiary community? Follow us on Instagram, send us an email at tertpod@gmail.com or fill out our Google Form to submit a question that we’ll answer in a future episode. We want to hear from you!    Our intro and outro music comes from “Cloud Dancer” by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0.   Assigned Reading: Find William James’ The Varieties of Religious Experience (Penguin Classics, 1982) here or on Project Gutenberg Read Richard Brody’s “The Best Movies of 2025” here

    48 min
  5. SQ1: Dumbledore v. Gandalf, Cancel Culture, Nostalgia

    FEB 23 ·  BONUS

    SQ1: Dumbledore v. Gandalf, Cancel Culture, Nostalgia

    I know what you’re thinking: Tertiary posts new episodes on Tuesdays, right?   Well, our first episode (“Decolonization is Not a Metaphor”) sparked so much debate, we decided to introduce an entirely new series to respond to listener feedback, circle back to particularly hot topics, and reserve for other special occasions.    We’re calling them “Side Quests.” (Don’t worry, Episode 2 is still coming out tomorrow!)   To kick things off, we revisit the timeless “Dumbledore versus Gandalf” debate, featuring a surprise guest … who shall not be named. Then we spiral into a conversation about cancel culture and censorship, inspired by the controversy surrounding HBO’s revived Harry Potter series. We consider the ways nostalgia and wishful thinking can conflict with where we “draw the line,” á la Amazon, Trump, and J.K. Rowling. We also started bleeping occasional profanity so Justin’s mom will finally listen.    Want to be a part of the Tertiary community? Follow us on Instagram, send us an email at tertpod@gmail.com or fill out our Google Form to submit a question that we’ll answer in a future episode. We want to hear from you!    If you noticed a brief clip of Bennett Wyler (@bennettwyler) on guitar, riffing the LOTR theme song, you heard right. Don’t miss his brand new album, “More Human,” wherever you listen to music.    Assigned Reading: Read J.K. Rowling’s article, “J.K. Rowling Writes about Her Reasons for Speaking out on Sex and Gender Issues,” here Read u/Nestramutat-’s Reddit rant here Watch Stephen Colbert’s interview with James Talarico here Our intro and outro music comes from “Cloud Dancer” by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0.

    30 min
  6. EP1: ”Decolonization is not a Metaphor,” Theory, Action

    FEB 10

    EP1: ”Decolonization is not a Metaphor,” Theory, Action

    What does it look like to put your money where your mouth is? Beyond voting, protesting, and donating to grassroots movements, what can people TODAY do to help solve the problems they see in the world?    This week, Tertiary hosts Heaven-Leigh and Justin break down the shortcomings of left wing rhetoric, through the lens of Eve Tuck and K. Wayne Yang’s essay, “Decolonization is not a metaphor” (link below). Buckle up, because we leapfrog from hot topics like performative activism and white fragility to unpacking the MAGA critique of anti-racism and the Democrat’s half-steps toward actionable solutions.    If you’ve ever wrestled with the question, “What can I do?” this is definitely a podcast for you.   If you’re just here for the hot takes (no shame in that), Heaven-Leigh and Justin tackle questions like: Is Timothee Chalamet a frat guy or a sexy thespian? Who would win in a fight between Gandalf and Dumbledore? Should an American Ratatouille (i.e., Glock-atouille) exist?    Assigned Reading: Check out Brett’s Letterboxd (here) “Decolonization is not a metaphor” (Decolonization: Indigeneity, Education & Society, 2012) by Eve Tuck and K. Wayne Yang (read the PDF here) Orientalism (Vintage, 1979) by Edward Said (buy the book here) Unwhite: Appalachia, Race, and Film (University of Georgia Press, 2018) by Meredith McCarroll (buy the book here) (Incorrectly named as “Whiteish”, sorry) Our intro and outro music comes from "Cloud Dancer" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0.

    47 min
  7. TRAILER

    FEB 5

    TRAILER

    Get to know your hosts, Heaven-Leigh and Justin, and the inner workings of their brains through a quick Q&A session. What starts with covering the who, what, when, where and why behind Tertiary concludes with imagining life as Patient Zero in the apocalypse and creating solutions for all the bicycle training wheels we leave behind.    Our intro and outro music comes from "Cloud Dancer" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0.

    13 min

Trailer

About

Neither your primary nor secondary source for news, culture, and critical thinking: Meet Tertiary, a podcast from two people you’ve never heard of—Heaven-Leigh and Justin—who went to grad school together and can’t shake the feeling that talking it out is better than doomscrolling. Join us every other week to laugh, cry, and digest whatever we’re watching, reading, and thinking about. No degree necessary.

Information

  • Creator
    Heaven-Leigh and Justin
  • Years Active
    2K
  • Episodes
    7
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    Tertiary