Test. Optimize. Scale.

Digital Niche Agency
  • 4.6 (10)
  • Marketing
  • Updated Weekly

Listen as industry leaders and pioneers share their insights and experiences of growing their businesses to scale using marketing. Find out what to test, what to optimize, and when to scale as they speak with Jason Fishman, SVP Digital Strategy, DNA - Digital Niche Agency.

  1. 2d ago

    EP. 244: Loralyn Mears - Mastering AI for Brand Visibility

    If AI does not understand what you do, who you do it for, and the value you bring, it cannot recommend you. And if it cannot recommend you, you are invisible. Loralyn Mears, PhD, is the founder of STEERus and the author of Misinterpreted, a book about the hidden risk making brands and leaders invisible in the age of AI. Her career spans genetically engineering mosquitoes to fight malaria, the dot-com era in Silicon Valley, leadership roles at Fortune 100 companies, and more startups than she can count. The through line: taking complex concepts and making them simple enough to act on. In this episode, Loralyn breaks down why the game has changed from Google search to AI search, and what brands need to do right now to be understood, recommended, and chosen. What We Cover: Why the average American communicates at a fourth-grade reading level and what that means for your messaging The Microsoft study showing we get distracted 187 times per day The UDA framework: Understand, Decide, Act, and why buyers get trapped in the zone of chaos and confusion Why "invisible brands don't make money" in the age of AI search SEO vs. AEO vs. GEO: what each one actually does Signal distortion: the next evolution beyond generative engine optimization Why AI search interprets what it thinks you want while Google search just finds words Why pivots, rebrands, and category creators confuse AI the most The role of reviews, Google Business Profile, and third party validation in AI visibility Clarity, consistency, context, evidence, trust, and restraint as the pillars of being understood How to test, optimize, and scale your brand's interpretation over time Connect with Loralyn Mears: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/loralynmears/ Podcast: Small Business Stories

  2. Jul 18

    EP. 243: Hunter Harris - The 30-Minute Fix Most Engineering Teams Overlook

    A 30-minute fix increased one company's revenue by $25M ARR. Hunter Harris has exited four companies and now helps Series A B2B SaaS startups fix the system problems slowing their engineering teams down. Hunter led product engineering at Silverpop, IBM, SalesLoft, Calendly, and Sendoso before founding Hunter Software Consulting. In this episode, he shares the through line of his entire career: most teams do not have a talent problem, they have a system problem and a strategy problem. He walks through the small changes that create disproportionate business impact, and how AI, done right, is unlocking hidden revenue. What We Cover: - Hunter's path from mowing lawns to exiting four companies - The one-line code change that increased revenue by $25M ARR in 30 minutes - The dashboard fix that catastrophically dropped churn and support tickets - Why simple Continuous Integration changes let one team release 1200% faster - Why slow engineering is riskier engineering, and how fast feedback loops fix it - The XY problem: why teams solve the wrong problem and miss the real one - Communication as the foundation of both code and leadership - Niceness versus kindness and how to have the hard conversations - Why AI scales off what you already have, good and bad - Fighting AI's verbosity bias and the vicious cycle that degrades output - Why you should think about tokens in terms of time, not cost - Building a library of AI skills and composing them into workflows - How a self-referencing loop cut Hunter's token costs by more than 99% Connect with Hunter Harris: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhunterharris/ Website: huntersoftwareconsulting.com Podcast:  @BuildandBreakThroughPodcast   CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 1:00 - Hunter's background and the entrepreneurial streak 3:00 - Boy Scouts, Eagle Scout, and a foundational operating system 4:00 - Georgia Tech, the fiscal crisis, and a pivot to Japanese 5:30 - Teaching in South Korea and building for the Japanese government 8:00 - The crime tracking database that saved thousands of man hours 10:00 - Silverpop, Skunkworks, and the IBM acquisition 13:00 - Getting rocket-shipped through engineering roles 15:00 - SalesLoft: core values and the scalability of communication 16:00 - Calendly, commoditization, and seeing the writing on the wall 18:00 - Sendoso and the GDPR compliance sprint 20:30 - The self-service dashboard that crushed churn 22:00 - The one-line code change that added $25M in revenue 25:00 - Starting Hunter Software Consulting 26:00 - Why AI averages a 20% efficiency gain and how one client hit 1200% 27:00 - Why slow engineering is riskier and feedback loops are the key 30:00 - Who is your customer? Rethinking the definition 33:00 - What separates high-performing dev teams from stuck ones 36:00 - The high-horsepower, misaligned person problem 38:00 - Niceness versus kindness and the hard conversation 40:00 - Communication all the way down: from code to AI to leadership 42:00 - The misuses of AI and avoiding AI slop 44:30 - Verbosity bias and the vicious cycle that degrades AI output 47:00 - Tokens as time, not cost, and the Eisenhower matrix 49:30 - Test: just start using AI and get the reps 51:00 - Optimize: teaching your agent to build skills 55:00 - Scale: composing skills into workflows and self-improving loops 58:00 - Cutting token costs by more than 99% 1:00:00 - Where to find Hunter and the Build and Break Through podcast

  3. Jul 10

    EP. 242: Itay Golan - The Next Era of Investment Banking Is Agentic

    Itay Golan is the CEO of Deals Agent and a former bank executive with 15 years of experience across the deal lifecycle at firms such as DealLogic, S&P Capital IQ, and Bloomberg. In his second appearance on Test. Optimize. Scale: Itay breaks down how agentic AI is leveling the playing field in capital markets, allowing small banks and funds to compete with the bulge bracket for deal origination. This is a deep look at how AI is moving from a novelty layer atop financial data to a mission-critical, revenue-generating tool that tells bankers where their next deal will come from. What We Cover: - Why most deal origination today runs on Rolodexes and league tables instead of strategy - How Deals Agent uses a proprietary model, not a wrapper on Claude or ChatGPT - 15 years of banker interviews and workflows trained into a vertical AI model - Why data privacy matters: no data leakage, no training your competitors - A live demo: comparing your deals against peers and finding origination targets - How AI surfaces the hot sectors, geographies, and deal types worth your resources - Guardrails against hallucination and why every insight comes with sources and confidence levels - Why the ECM and IPO space was untapped white space for agentic AI - What this means for advisory fees, access, and who wins mandates in five years - Lessons on pivoting: from productivity tool to revenue-generating platform - Why every "no" from a customer is a signal to iterate, not quit - How to identify your ICP and scale strategically Connect with Itay: Email: info@dealsagent.ai LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/itaygolan/ Subscribe to Test. Optimize. Scale. for weekly conversations on growth marketing, business strategy, and what is actually working right now. CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 1:00 - Itay's second appearance and the through line from crowdfunding to AI 2:30 - Democratizing deal access for small banks and funds 4:00 - Why Deals Agent is a proprietary model, not a ChatGPT wrapper 6:00 - 15 years of banker workflows trained into the model 7:30 - The data privacy advantage: no leakage, no training competitors 10:00 - Turning behavioral data into origination insights 11:30 - Human vs. AI: productivity gains and a whole new capability 13:00 - Guardrails against hallucination, sources, and confidence levels 15:00 - Live demo: comparing your deals against peers 17:00 - Finding and qualifying origination targets in real time 18:00 - The competitive landscape and where Deals Agent fits 20:00 - Why M&A and ECM are ready for AI now 22:00 - What this means for funds, fees, and access in five years 25:00 - How long Deals Agent has been in development 26:00 - Advice for founders and banks: go for it and act now 28:00 - First mover advantage and the cost of waiting 29:00 - Pivots: from analyst tool to revenue-critical platform 31:00 - Why listening to the market beats being married to your idea 33:00 - Scaling strategically and identifying your ICP 36:00 - Where to find Deals Agent and final thoughts

  4. Jun 30

    EP. 241:Jeff Borschowa - Cloning Your Top Clients Creates a Powerful Referral Network

    Most founders chase cold leads while their strongest growth channel sits untouched, the clients they already love. Referral expert Jeff Borschowa shows how to turn your top clients into a referral network that brings you more of the same. On this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., Jeff Borschowa joins host Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency (DNA), to break down how real referral partnerships get built. Jeff grew his professional services firm by doubling it three years in a row with no ad spend, all from a handful of strong referral relationships. He shares how to find the right partners, how to ask without being pushy, why the most trusted networkers avoid referral fees, and a simple top-10-client exercise you can run this week. What you will learn: - Why referred clients stay longer, spend more, and trust you faster - How to spot a good referral partner with the lunch test - Where to find partners by looking upstream from your clients - How to clone your top three or four clients - How to network at a conference without a booth - Conversation starters that work even if you are an introvert - Whether to pay referral fees, and what they really cost you - The top-10-client call that restarts your referrals Chapters: 00:00 Why most founders ignore referrals 01:57 Doubling a business 3 years straight with no ad spend 05:30 Who makes a good referral partner, the lunch test 08:33 Upstream vs downstream, where to find partners 11:37 The shortcut, clone your best clients 13:00 Networking at a conference without a booth 15:46 Conversation starters for introverts 21:30 Getting partners to send you more referrals 32:23 Should you pay referral fees 37:55 The charity donation trick and your chamber 40:11 The first test, call your top 10 clients 45:42 How to scale referral partnerships 47:18 Where to find Jeff Mentioned in this episode: The Go-Giver and Endless Referrals by Bob Burg Connect with Jeff Borschowa: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-borschowa/ Pharos Business Services: https://pharosbusiness.com Podcast: The Lighthouse Sessions About the show: Test. Optimize. Scale. is hosted by Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency (DNA), an investor and customer acquisition agency. Each episode features operators and founders on what to test, what to optimize, and when to scale. Subscribe for new episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@DigitalNicheAgency/ New here? Start with this one: https://youtu.be/JTB2Nh3NMec?si=5oz4oX4k2W-WYZIY #ReferralMarketing #Networking #BusinessGrowth

  5. Jun 19

    EP. 240: Hiten Sonpal - The Playbook Behind the #1 Reg CF Campaign of 2025

    Hiten Sonpal is the CEO of RISE Robotics and a robotics industry veteran with over 20 years of experience. He helped generate $2B in revenue and ship 9M units at iRobot, and now leads the company behind the Beltdraulic system, a patented fluid-free alternative to traditional hydraulics that operates at 75% efficiency versus hydraulics' 25%. In this episode, Hiten covers the technology, the commercialization strategy, the defense contracts, and the crowdfunding playbook that made RISE Robotics the #1 Regulation Crowdfunding campaign of 2025 according to KingsCrowd. What We Cover: - How robots deployed at Ground Zero on 9/11 shaped Hiten's entire career - Why hydraulic systems are 75% inefficient and what that costs operators every day - How Beltdraulic enables drive-by-wire control and fully autonomous heavy machinery - Predictive maintenance: how RISE monitors belt health in real time to eliminate unplanned downtime - The MVP framework: desirability, feasibility, and viability for deep tech products - Why mid-market customers beat enterprise for early-stage startups - The Tesla stepping stone strategy: start niche, expand to adjacent markets - RISE's first commercial customer in oil and gas and the Air Force $3M contract extension - How RiISE raised $5M from over 2,500 investors and was named the #1 Reg CF campaign of 2025 by KingsCrowd - The three-channel marketing approach: retargeting, new investor acquisition, and earned media - Why crowdfunding investors are also becoming product customers - What founders need to know before launching a Reg CF campaign Connect with Hiten Sonpal: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hiten-sonpal/ RISE Robotics: https://www.riserobotics.com/ Invest: https://invest.riserobotics.com/ Subscribe to Test. Optimize. Scale. for weekly conversations on growth marketing, business strategy, and what is actually working right now. CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 1:30 - How Hiten got into robotics as a kid in India 4:00 - 9/11 and the robots deployed at Ground Zero 7:00 - iRobot: $2B in revenue and 9M units shipped 9:00 - Why robotics companies fail to make it from research to commercialization 11:00 - The MVP framework: desirability, feasibility, and viability 15:00 - Why mid-market beats enterprise for deep tech startups 18:00 - The hydraulics problem: 25% efficiency and unpredictable failures 22:00 - How Beltdraulic works and why it enables machine autonomy 25:30 - Fluid-free: predictive maintenance and the end of unplanned downtime 28:00 - Rise's first commercial customer in oil and gas 31:00 - Scaling strategy: the Tesla stepping stone approach 34:00 - The Air Force $3M contract extension for munitions handling 36:30 - Why Rise chose Reg CF over traditional VC 40:00 - Testing the waters: $800K in interest in Q4 2024 42:00 - The $5M raise: what worked and what surprised them 45:00 - The three marketing channels behind the campaign 49:00 - 20x ROAS and how they think about spend efficiency 52:00 - What founders should do before launching a crowdfunding campaign 55:00 - Where to find Rise Robotics and how to invest

  6. May 29

    EP. 239: Jeff Coleman - How One Messaging Change Lifted Conversion Rates by 7%

    -Jeff Coleman has been running Google Ads campaigns since 2004, back when clicks cost 25 cents and keywords were king. In this episode, Jeff breaks down exactly how search advertising has changed, what most campaigns are getting wrong right now, and the proven approach his team uses to build consistent lead engines for service businesses. If you are spending money on Google Ads or thinking about it, this one will save you a lot of wasted budget. What We Cover: - Why persona research matters more than keyword research before you ever launch - How to use AI to pull out what your existing customers actually value about your business - The messaging shift that lifted one client's click-through rate by 2-3% and conversion rate by 6-7% - Why Google's "exact match" is not what it used to be and how to protect your budget Negative keywords: why top campaigns have 1,000+ and what happens when you skip this step - The conversion tracking mistake that trains Google to send you the wrong leads - A/B testing timelines, how many ad variants to run, and when you have enough data - Landing page fundamentals that move conversion rates - How to scale Google Ads spend without destroying your cost per lead - Google vs. Microsoft Ads and when each makes sense - Real benchmarks: click-through rates, cost per lead, and landing page conversion rates for 2026 Connect with Jeff Coleman: Website: factorfour.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffcoleman21/ Connect with Digital Niche Agency: Website: www.digitalnicheagency.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digital-niche-agency/ Subscribe to Test. Optimize. Scale. for weekly conversations on growth marketing, business strategy, and what is actually working right now.

  7. May 22

    EP. 238: Jack Hoss - How Real Estate Investors Are Using AI to Flip Houses

    Jack Hoss is the owner of RealDealCrew and host of the RealDealCast podcast, with over 850 episodes recorded. In this episode, Jack breaks down how he flips houses in the Fargo/Moorhead market, how he uses AI to underwrite multifamily deals, and the local SEO strategy that keeps his business visible and competitive online. If you're a real estate investor, operator, or entrepreneur looking to put AI to work in your business, this one is packed with practical takeaways you can use right now. What We Cover: - Jack's house flipping approach in Fargo/Moorhead targeting 250-300k ARV properties - How he builds every deal around a 20% return target - Using AI to underwrite multifamily properties faster and smarter - The AI phone receptionist setup that handles inbound calls automatically - Google Business Profile and Bing Business Profile as a local SEO foundation - How Jack uses Claude Projects to get consistent outputs and avoid AI slop - Why he recommends Claude's Cowork feature and OpenAI Codex - Lessons from 850+ podcast episodes on what actually moves the needle Connect with Jack Hoss: RealDealCast Podcast:  @RealDealCast   RealDealCrew: https://realdealcrew.com/ Connect with Jason Fishman: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jafishman/ Connect with Digital Niche Agency: Website: www.digitalnicheagency.com Subscribe to Test. Optimize. Scale. for weekly conversations on growth marketing, business strategy, and what is actually working right now. CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 1:30 - Meet Jack Hoss and Real Deal Crew 4:00 - House flipping in the Fargo/Moorhead market 8:30 - Targeting 250-300k ARV and why 20% returns is the number 13:00 - Using AI to underwrite multifamily properties 18:00 - The AI phone receptionist setup 22:30 - Local SEO: Google Business Profile and Bing Business Profile strategy 27:00 - Claude Projects and how to avoid AI slop 32:30 - Claude Cowork and OpenAI Codex recommendations 37:00 - Lessons from 850 podcast episodes 41:00 - Where to find Jack

  8. May 15

    EP. 237: Kevin Cahill - Daily Actions to Grow Your Real Estate Business

    Most real estate agents are grinding for now buyers and now sellers. The agents who actually build wealth are doing something completely different every single day. Kevin Cahill has been a managing broker since 1999, recruited and trained thousands of agents across multiple states, co-founded REALean Real Estate (saving sellers over $4 million in commissions), merged into eXp Realty, and built Realty Funnels, a SaaS marketing and automation platform designed to help agents attract sellers and scale with intelligent systems. In this episode: The 6-12-18-6 daily action framework every agent (and entrepreneur) should follow Why top-of-funnel awareness is your insurance policy for future years of success How to position yourself so clients think of you the moment a real estate need arises The automated 2-year follow-up campaign inside Realty Funnels and how it works Why niche down to grow rich applies to every service business How to do a mindset and environment audit that actually moves the needle Time blocking, calendar discipline, and the rule: if you must erase you must replace How to scale through time leverage and geographic reach Why direct response marketing changed everything for Kevin early in his career Connect with Kevin: Website: realtyfunnels.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/realestatebrokerstrategist/ YouTube: youtube.com/@realtyfunnels About Kevin Cahill: Kevin Cahill brings nearly three decades of experience across every layer of residential real estate. Beginning his career in 1999, he has built a track record spanning top-tier home sales, multi-office brokerage leadership, and proptech innovation. He has recruited, trained, and managed thousands of agents across multiple states and co-founded REALean Real Estate alongside his wife Lisa Cahill, CPA. In 2023 they merged their brokerage operations into eXp Realty. Kevin also co-founded Realty Funnels, a SaaS platform helping agents attract home sellers and scale with smart marketing systems. About Test. Optimize. Scale.: Hosted by Jason Fishman, Test. Optimize. Scale. is the podcast for entrepreneurs, marketers, and founders who want to grow smarter. Every episode breaks down the strategies, frameworks, and real-world lessons behind successful brands, campaigns, and capital raises. CHAPTERS 0:00 Introduction 1:14 Kevin's background: from food service to real estate since 1999 2:56 What good customer service actually looks like in 2026 5:28 How to become top of mind before clients are ready to buy or sell 8:14 "My success is in direct proportion to the number of people who think of me" 9:51 The full marketing funnel in real estate: awareness through advocacy 11:34 Why top-of-funnel awareness eliminates the lead roller coaster 12:57 Branding versus direct response and why you need both 15:08 Showing up every day and putting in the reps 17:43 Why now is the best time to grow a business with digital tools 19:24 The 6-12-18-6 daily action framework explained 23:17 What happens when agents commit to the 6-12-18-6 28:07 Realty Funnels and the automated 2-year follow-up campaign 31:14 Four emails a month: seasonal and educational messaging 32:12 Why 90% of salespeople never follow up (and where the deal actually happens) 33:15 Niche down to grow rich: picking your ideal client avatar 37:25 Test, optimize, scale applied to real estate 40:17 Mindset and environment audit 41:55 Time blocking and calendar discipline 43:44 If you must erase you must replace 44:02 Auditing energy drains and staying in your strength zone 47:35 How to find mentors and coaches who are a few steps ahead 51:09 Scaling through time leverage and geographic reach 54:06 Where to find Kevin and final thoughts 55:30 Why direct response marketing changed everything early in Kevin's career

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Listen as industry leaders and pioneers share their insights and experiences of growing their businesses to scale using marketing. Find out what to test, what to optimize, and when to scale as they speak with Jason Fishman, SVP Digital Strategy, DNA - Digital Niche Agency.

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