The Driverless Digest Podcast

Harry Campbell
  • 4.8 (9)
  • TECHNOLOGY

Covering the intersection of autonomy x rideshare, and the business of AVs. www.thedriverlessdigest.com

  1. JAN 19

    A Deep Dive into Waymo’s CPUC Data with Dr. Matthew Raifman

    This week’s podcast is brought to you by Terawatt – purpose-built charging for autonomous vehicle fleets. Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them). In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Dr. Matthew Raifman, Research Lead for policy and automated vehicles at UC Berkeley’s SafeTREC Center, who has researched on the safety and societal impacts of automated vehicles. We dive into Matt’s work at SafeTREC and how the group collaborates with state agencies and funding bodies on transportation safety and policy. We discuss what drew Matt to the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) data from Waymo that he recently analyzed in The Driverless Digest, and whether cities and autonomous vehicle companies are truly aligned in their goals. We unpack the current state of AV data reporting, including how vehicle miles traveled (VMT) are defined across different periods for rideshare and autonomous vehicles, what trends are beginning to emerge, and where there may be opportunities for better alignment between cities and AV operators. Matt explains the concept of deadheading in both AV and human-driven rideshare fleets, methods for reducing it, and why distinctions like P1 versus P2 VMT periods matter—both for cities trying to manage congestion and for AV companies optimizing their operations. We also explore the environmental implications of autonomous vehicles, what CPUC data reveals about Waymo’s time between trips and passenger wait times, and the open question of whether AVs should idle or drive around between trips. Drawing lessons from early rideshare pick-up and drop-off zones, we discuss potential approaches to reducing congestion as AV fleets scale, examine the limitations of currently available AV data, and the key questions that remain unanswered. Chapters * (00:00) Introduction to Dr. Matthew Raifman * (02:15) Matt’s work at UC Berkeley’s SafeTrec Center * (03:17) How does SafeTrec collaborate with state agencies and funding bodies? * (04:41) What got Matt interested in the Waymo California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) data he wrote about in TDD? * (7:00) Do cities and AV companies have aligned goals? * (09:20) The current state of AV data reporting * (11:00) Definitions of Vehicle Miles Travelled (VMT) periods for rideshare and AVs * (12:30) Trends in the (VMT) periods, and synergies between AV companies and cities * (16:20) AV vs human driven rideshare deadheading, methods of reducing it * (20:45) The P1 vs P2 VMT periods theory, and benefits of P1 to AV companies * (27:35) How AVs impact the environment * (29:30) Matt’s post in TDD, and what it says about Waymo’s time between trips, and waiting time * (34:40) Should AVs stop or drive around between trips? * (38:44) Lessons from pick-up and drop-off zones in early rideshare, and potential solutions to congestion * (45:00) The limitations of the currently available AV data, and some questions that still remain unanswered. * (43:39) Conclusion and final thoughts Designing Charging Hubs for Autonomous Fleets We are excited to partner with Terawatt, one of the leading providers of charging infrastructure. To learn more about Terawatt’s network of AV charging hubs and track record of 99%+ uptime, reach out to Logan Szidik at lszidik@terawattinfrastructure.com Notes/Links: * The views expressed by Dr. Matthew Raifman in this episode are his own, and do not reflect the views of the Regents of the University of California or UC Berkeley. * You can find Matt on Linkedin and Twitter/X. * Link to Matt’s article on The Driverless Digest about Waymo’s time between trips, mentioned at the 29:30 timestamp (link). * Link to Matt’s Linkedin post/chart on Waymo’s deadheading, mentioned at the 21:14 timestamp (link). * Link to my Waymo deadheading article, mentioned at the 49:45 timestamp (link). * SafeTREC at UC Berkeley, where you can find Matt’s articles and other ones from his colleagues (link). -Harry This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thedriverlessdigest.com

    50 min
  2. Autonomous Delivery Robots with Coco CEO Zach Rash

    JAN 12

    Autonomous Delivery Robots with Coco CEO Zach Rash

    This episode was recorded live in person at Coco’s office in Venice, CA, so is a great one to watch on YouTube. Otherwise, you can listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them). In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Zach Rash, Co-founder and CEO of Coco, the autonomous delivery robotics company transforming last-mile delivery in cities around the world. Zach catches us up on Coco’s progress and explains what’s fuelling this wave of sidewalk delivery robots. He breaks down how Coco’s robots fit into the broader robotics ecosystem, how their form and capabilities have evolved over time, and what autonomy really looks like in practice, including the role teleoperation still plays today. We also cover Coco’s delivery volume, fleet size, and teleoperation model, as well as industry sentiment around human-in-the-loop systems and how Zach thinks about them. Zach also shares his perspective on autonomous delivery versus robotaxis, and how merchants interact with Coco’s robots during real-world deliveries. We explore the customer experience around pricing, no tipping, and delivery costs, along with Coco’s unit economics, operating costs, and utilization. The episode also looks at where Coco fits within the on-demand delivery ecosystem, how autonomous delivery can support local economies while lowering costs for AV companies, and the importance of partnerships with platforms like Uber and DoorDash. Zach closes by sharing what excites him most about Coco’s future and where he sees the company heading next. Chapters (00:00) Introduction to Zach Rash and Coco (02:10) Catching up on Coco, and their progress so far (03:56) The second wave of sidewalk delivery robots, and what’s fuelling it (05:40) How Coco’s robots fit into the robotics ecosystem (07:10) How has Coco’s autonomous robots have evolved over time in form and function? (09:29) How autonomous are Coco’s autonomous delivery robots? and their teleoperation (10:30) Coco’s delivery volume by numbers, and fleet size (11:30) How Coco’s teleoperation works (13:14) Industry sentiments around teleoperation, and how Zach looks at it (16:15) How Coco sources their teleoperators (17:50) What Zach thinks about autonomous delivery vs robotaxis (21:48) How restaurants/merchants interact with Coco’s robots during delivery (22:50) How Coco’s customer experience works with no tipping, and delivery costs (25:49) The unit economics of Coco’s robots, operating costs, and utilization (33:15) Where Coco fits in the on-demand and delivery ecosystem (34:40) How autonomous delivery benefits the local economies, and reduces costs for AV companies (36:25) Coco’s partnership ecosystem overview (37:31) How significant are Uber and DoorDash in the delivery ecosystem, and how independent are merchants? (38:53) What are you most excited about in the future of Coco? (41:30) Conclusion and final thoughts Notes/Links: * You can find Zach on LinkedIn (link), and Twitter/X (link). * Coco’s website (link). * Coco’s last fundraising announcement, mentioned at the 00:55 timestamp (link, no paywall). -Harry Thanks for being a subscriber to The Driverless Digest! If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with someone who might like it too. And if this email was forwarded to you, why not subscribe and stick around :) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thedriverlessdigest.com

    42 min
  3. Lessons from the Great Waymo Outage of 2025 (Brad Templeton)

    JAN 6

    Lessons from the Great Waymo Outage of 2025 (Brad Templeton)

    Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them). In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Brad Templeton, a longtime speaker and consultant in the autonomy space, who has advised companies including Waymo, Zoox, Cruise, and Starship since their early days. He also runs Robocars.com and writes about self-driving technology for Forbes. We talk through the recent Waymo outage in San Francisco that left robotaxis stuck across the city, what actually happened, and how the situation unfolded. We break down the timeline of the incident, the root cause of the incident, and why remote operators became such a bottleneck during the outage. We also discuss how transparent AV companies should be when things go wrong, what Waymo can learn from past incidents at Cruise, and whether systems like Waymo are ready to handle ‘edge cases’ such as dead intersections. Brad explains how remote assistance works in practice, how Waymo uses it today, and where its limits start to show. The conversation then zooms out to compare Waymo’s performance to human drivers, how outages like this shape public perception, and what role regulators could play in improving robotaxi safety going forward. We finish up with Brad’s thoughts on what this incident means for Waymo, and what it says about the current state of autonomy more broadly. Chapters (00:00) Introduction to Brad Templeton (01:01) The great Waymo outage of 2025, and facts (06:05) Transparency with AV companies and lessons from Cruise (07:06) Can Waymo handle dead intersections? (09:25) Timeline of the Waymo outage (10:30) The main cause of the Waymo blackout, and teleoperation (13:30) How remote operation works with robotaxis (15:50) Remote operation at Waymo (18:50) How Waymo could improve for future occurrences, and lessons from the past/present (39:24) Waymo vs human drivers, and public perception (42:50) How regulators could help improve robotaxi safety (54:00) Conclusion and final thoughts Notes/Links: * You can find Brad on LinkedIn (link), and Twitter/X (link). * Brad’s Forbes article on the Waymo outage, mentioned at the 03:00 timestamp (link, no paywall). * You can also find Brad’s articles on Forbes (link). * Waymo’s article explaining the outage, mentioned at the 10:04 timestamp (link). -Harry Thanks for being a subscriber to The Driverless Digest! If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with someone who might like it too. And if this email was forwarded to you, why not subscribe and stick around :) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thedriverlessdigest.com

    55 min

  4. 12/29/2025

    Why Waymo Replaces Nannies and Parents, Not Uber Drivers (Sam Lessin)

    Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them). In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Sam Lessin, an early VP of Product at Facebook and currently co-founder and GP at Slow Ventures, a generalist early-stage VC firm with offices in San Francisco and Boston. We explore how autonomous vehicles—particularly Waymo—are already changing everyday life in San Francisco, and why Sam believes their biggest impact may be on families. Sam shares what he’s observed about Waymo’s progress over the past few years, why kids and childcare could be the real unlock for autonomy, and how AVs might reduce the financial and career tradeoffs that come with parenting. We also dig into practical questions, including what age it could make sense for a child to ride alone in a robotaxi, how autonomous vehicles could make suburban living more appealing, and what that shift could mean for housing and real estate. We compare autonomous rides to human-driven services like Uber, discuss Waymo’s pricing and cost structure, and examine how widespread AV adoption could expand the overall ridesharing market. The conversation also covers the short and long term effects of autonomy and automation, from job displacement and birth rates to investment opportunities in AVs. Chapters (00:00) Introduction to Sam Lessin (03:20) What Sam has noticed about Waymo in San Francisco over the last few years (05:10) Why Waymo’s biggest impact will be with kids and childcare (08:00) The financial and career cost of having kids, and how Waymo can help (09:50) What age does Sam think is appropriate for a kid to use a Waymo? (10:50) How Waymo makes the suburbs more appealing, and it’s impact on real estate (14:10) How AVs compare to human driven rideshare like Uber (16:30) Short and long term effects of AV proliferation: Job loss, ridesharing Total Addressible Market (TAM), birth rates (18:19) Insights on Waymo pricing and cost vs rideshare (19:58) How AVs and automation could make parenting easier (22:03) Investment opportunities in the advent of AVs and AI (25:27) Conclusion and final thoughts Notes/Links: * You can find Sam on Linkedin (link). * You can also find him on Twitter/X (link). * Sam’s personal website (link). * Slow Ventures’ website (link). * Sam’s post about Waymo replacing nanny and parent chauffeur jobs, mentioned at the 05:12 timestamp (link). * My previous podcast episode with Brad Hargreaves explaining the effect of robotaxis on real estate, mentioned at the 22:11 timestamp (link). Designing Charging Hubs for Autonomous Fleets We are excited to partner with Terawatt, one of the leading providers of charging infrastructure. To learn more about Terawatt’s network of AV charging hubs and track record of 99%+ uptime, reach out to Logan Szidik at lszidik@terawattinfrastructure.com -Harry This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thedriverlessdigest.com

    26 min
  5. Robotaxi Lessons From San Francisco With Jeffrey Tumlin

    12/15/2025

    Robotaxi Lessons From San Francisco With Jeffrey Tumlin

    Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them). In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Jeffrey Tumlin, a 30-year transportation leader and former executive director of the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency (SFMTA). Jeffrey shares how robotaxis first came onto his radar, what the SFMTA is responsible for, and why San Francisco has long been a proving ground for new transportation technologies. The conversation centers on autonomous vehicles in San Francisco, including the city’s turning point with AV deployment, how traffic incidents are tracked, and the ongoing challenges around data transparency. Jeffrey explains what AV companies could do better when working with cities, the cultural friction between public agencies and private operators, and practical ways to make early AV rollouts less chaotic. We also explore congestion, safety, and the broader impacts of autonomy — drawing lessons from rideshare, discussing how AVs could affect traffic, and reflecting on the collapse of Cruise. Jeffrey closes with his perspective on whether cities should embrace AVs, how edge cases requiring human intervention might be addressed, and the most meaningful upsides autonomous vehicles can bring if deployed thoughtfully. Editor’s Note: Jeffrey’s video unfortunately did not record (I blame Zoom) so that’s why there’s no video of him speaking in this episode. Audio is still great though! Chapters (00:00) Introduction to Jeffrey Tumlin (01:08) When did Robotaxis first come to your radar while at the SFMTA? (02:08) What is the SFMTA responsible for? (02:45) San Francisco’s history with transportation technology (03:50) San Francisco’s turning point with AV technology (05:19) How San Francisco tracks traffic incidents, and data transparency problems (08:06) What AV companies could do better on data transparency (10:07) The cultural clash between cities and AV companies (11:49) What solutions exist to make these early days of AV introduction smoother for AV companies and cities? (14:48) The main adverse effects of AV proliferation (17:36) How did rideshare affect traffic congestion, and lessons learnt (20:58) How AVs would affect congestion, and solutions that exist (22:30) Jeffrey’s take on the safety argument for AVs (27:05) Should cities embrace AVs, and how? (30:07) The demise of Cruise and lessons learnt (37:29) How do we solve AV edge cases that require human intervention (40:26) The main upsides of AV introduction (44:20) Conclusion and final thoughts Notes/Links: * You can find Jeffrey on Linkedin (link). * You can also find Jeffrey on BlueSky (link). * Jeffrey’s interview with David Zipper on Bloomberg about robotaxis in San Francisco, mentioned at the 13:49 timestamp (link, no paywall). * RSG article on how Uber and Lyft affect congestion, mentioned at the 18:10 timestamp (link). * New York Times op-ed by Dr. Jonathan Slotkin about robotaxi safety, mentioned at the 22:31 timestamp (link, no paywall). -Harry Thanks for being a subscriber to The Driverless Digest! If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with someone who might like it too. And if this email was forwarded to you, why not subscribe and stick around :) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thedriverlessdigest.com

    45 min
  6. Inside Tesla’s Autonomy Strategy with Farzad Mesbahi

    12/01/2025

    Inside Tesla’s Autonomy Strategy with Farzad Mesbahi

    Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them). In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Farzad Mesbahi, a former Tesla employee, a longtime Tesla investor and popular Tesla YouTuber. We get into why Farzad has become such a well-regarded voice in the Tesla community, how he thinks about the broader Tesla ecosystem, and how public perception has shifted over time. He also walks through a few interesting Tesla stats and facts, along with some of the more common criticisms the company faces. We then dive into the latest on Tesla’s Robotaxi efforts — what we know, what’s still unclear, and how the rider experience differs from what companies like Waymo offer today. Farzad breaks down where Tesla’s autonomy approach may have advantages, how he thinks about Tesla’s safety profile, and whether Waymo is still ahead. We also compare both companies’ deployment strategies and discuss whether pricing even matters at this stage of the robotaxi rollout. We wrap up with Farzad’s thoughts on the rest of the AV landscape beyond Tesla and Waymo, how he sees competition evolving, and his final outlook on where autonomy is headed. Chapters (00:00) Introduction to Farzad Mesbahi (04:10) Why is Farzad considered knowledgeable about Tesla? (05:25) The larger Tesla ecosystem and public perception (07:35) Interesting Tesla stats/facts (13:00) Some criticisms of Tesla (14:40) The latest on Tesla’s Robotaxi (18:00) The Tesla Robotaxi rider experience vs Waymo’s (19:13) Advantages of Tesla’s autonomy approach over Waymo’s (20:46) Quantifying Tesla’s safety profile (24:03) Is Waymo ahead of Tesla? (26:15) Thoughts on Tesla’s Robotaxi deployment approach vs Waymo’s (32:25) Is pricing important at this stage of robotaxi rollout? (35:05) Thoughts on other AV players apart from Tesla and Zoox (40:30) Conclusion and final thoughts Notes/Links: * Farzad’s YouTube Channel (link). * Farzad’s Website (link). -Harry Thanks for being a subscriber to The Driverless Digest! If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with someone who might like it too. And if this email was forwarded to you, why not subscribe and stick around :) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thedriverlessdigest.com

    42 min
  7. Uber, Taxis, and the Shift to AVs (Hansu Kim - Flywheel CEO)

    11/24/2025

    Uber, Taxis, and the Shift to AVs (Hansu Kim - Flywheel CEO)

    Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them). In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Hansu Kim, longtime San Francisco political consultant with 20+ years of experience in transportation policy and legislation, and Chairman of Flywheel Technologies, one of Uber’s taxi fleet partners, and taxi booking platform. We get into how the Flywheel–Uber partnership actually works, what the customer experience looks like, and how the taxi industry is responding to this model. Hansu breaks down how Flywheel balances traditional taxi demand with Uber-induced trips, and how their approach boosts utilization while reducing congestion and emissions. We also talk about the benefits this model brings to drivers and TNCs, plus why taxi drivers still have a few meaningful advantages over regular rideshare drivers. We then shift into the AV world, from how Uber uses similar fleet-partnership frameworks to onboard autonomous vehicle companies, to how robotaxis in San Francisco are affecting demand. Hansu shares where taxis could fill important gaps for AV operators, his take on Waymo’s challenges, how driver income might change as AVs scale, and how Flywheel is preparing for that future, including their work with Nexar on next-gen AI cameras. Chapters (00:00) Introduction to Hansu Kim (01:25) Current state of the Flywheel-Uber partnership and the taxi industry (03:20) Mechanics of the partnership, and the customer experience (05:00) Is the Flywheel-Uber partnership model being embraced by the taxi industry? (08:32) Flywheel’s demand distribution — Traditional taxi demand vs Uber induced demand (09:21) How Flywheel maximizes vehicle utilization, and reduces congestion/pollution (10:13) Benefits of the Flywheel-Uber partnership model to drivers and TNCs (13:00) Flywheel’s business structure (19:58) Advantages of taxi drivers over regular rideshare drivers (23:30) How Uber uses the same fleet partnership model for autonomous vehicle companies (25:10) How AV companies benefit from TNC/taxi partnerships (26:15) Waymo’s challenges in SF, and how Flywheel could help (Disabled customers etc) (29:39) How have robotaxis in SF impacted taxi/rideshare demand? (32:20) How would taxi driver income change with the advent of AVs (34:18) Would AVs eventually compete with Taxis? (36:07) How Flywheel is preparing for the AV future (40:15) How Flywheel is partnering with Nexar for their new generation AI cameras (42:34) Hansu’s overall assessment of Waymo (45:12) Conclusion and final notes Notes/Links: * Hansu’s previous appearance on The Rideshare Guy podcast: Order An Uber Get A Taxi?! Uber X Taxis | RSG 207 (link). * RSG contributor Jay Cradeur tried out taxi driving with Flywheel: What’s It Like To Be A Taxi Driver vs an Uber Driver? (link). -Harry Thanks for being a subscriber to The Driverless Digest! If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with someone who might like it too. And if this email was forwarded to you, why not subscribe and stick around :) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thedriverlessdigest.com

    46 min
  8. What It Would Take for Waymo to Launch in New York City (Podcast)

    11/03/2025

    What It Would Take for Waymo to Launch in New York City (Podcast)

    Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them). In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Dawood Mian, a long time NYC fleet owner, and founder of AutoMarketplace, the largest content platform focused exclusively on New York city’s TLC market. We get into what makes the NYC TLC ecosystem unlike any other market in the country — from the regulatory framework and driver pay rules to the insurance realities. And why it’s such an important market for ridehail players like Uber and Waymo. Dawood breaks down how the market has evolved over the past years, the origin of lockouts, and how the economics of operating a rideshare fleet in New York differ dramatically from the rest of the U.S. Dawood also walks through the details of running a rideshare fleet in NYC: managing insurance costs, sourcing and maintaining vehicles, plate values, and the operational challenges for future AV fleets, like finding real estate for parking, staging, and maintenance. We also explore what it would take for a robotaxi operator like Waymo to launch in NYC — the regulatory steps, business barriers, and technical constraints that make New York one of the toughest markets for AV deployment. Dawood shares what he sees coming next for mobility in the city, and how both human-driven and future autonomous fleets may coexist in such a dense, tightly managed market. Chapters (00:00) Introduction to Dawood Mian (01:30) What makes the NYC TLC market unique (04:40) Why is insurance different for rideshare in NYC? (07:20) How the NYC rideshare/taxi market has evolved (09:50) NYC’s driver pay model, and the origin of lockouts (13:19) How the rideshare rental business works in NYC (16:30) Dawood’s fleet and business strategy (19:51) Insurance in NYC’s rideshare fleet business (22:57) Cost of an NYC TLC plate, and transferability (24:47) The mechanics of Waymo’s entry into the NYC ridehail market (30:00) Business and regulatory barriers to Waymo’s entry into New York city (36:35) The future of AVs in NYC (37:07) Are there technical/additional constraints to the operation of AVs in NYC? (39:50) Real estate challenges for fleet operators in NYC (43:55) Key NYC mobility issues to watch (46:26) Conclusion and final thoughts Notes/Links: Check out Dawood’s website (AutoMarketplace), and you can follow his newsletter for the latest in NYC’s TLC market (link). - Harry Thanks for being a subscriber to The Driverless Digest! If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with someone who might like it too. And if this email was forwarded to you, why not subscribe and stick around :) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thedriverlessdigest.com

    48 min
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Covering the intersection of autonomy x rideshare, and the business of AVs. www.thedriverlessdigest.com

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