The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

Vox Media Podcast Network
  • 4.7 (309)
  • NEWS COMMENTARY
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

The Long Game is a weekly national security podcast hosted by Jake Sullivan, President Biden’s National Security Advisor, and Jon Finer, his Principal Deputy—senior aides who sat in on the classified Presidential Daily Brief each morning and translated raw intelligence into policy advice. Each week, Jake and Jon will pull back the curtain on how power really works helping you make sense of the national security stories unfolding today. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

  1. America’s Cybersecurity Crisis Starts With Software (w/Jen Easterly)

    12H AGO

    America’s Cybersecurity Crisis Starts With Software (w/Jen Easterly)

    President Trump is preparing to sign a major executive order on AI and cybersecurity at a moment of growing concern over cyber threats from China, Russia, Iran, and criminal ransomware gangs. Jen Easterly, former Director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency and now CEO of RSAC, the world's largest cybersecurity community, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss: Why America has a software security problem, not just a cybersecurity problem How insecure software shifted risk from tech companies onto consumers Why AI tools like Mythos and GPT-5.5 Cyber could fundamentally change cyber defense What China’s Volt Typhoon campaign revealed about U.S. infrastructure vulnerabilities How cyber warfare has shaped conflicts in Ukraine and Iran Jake and Jon close the episode with a discussion of the latest developments in the Iran war, rising tensions around Cuba, the Ebola outbreak in the Congo, and President Trump’s summit with Xi Jinping in Beijing. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube. Show notes are available here. Transcript coming soon. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 8m
  2. China’s Strategy for Trump (w/Kurt Campbell)

    MAY 13

    China’s Strategy for Trump (w/Kurt Campbell)

    President Trump heads to Beijing for a high-stakes summit with Xi Jinping at a moment of growing instability in the Middle East and rising anxiety across Asia. In this episode, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to preview the summit and discuss: Why China increasingly believes the United States is in decline Xi Jinping’s read of Donald Trump Whether Trump might shift U.S. policy on Taiwan or semiconductor export controls How the Iran war is factoring into  China’s strategy  What comes next in the U.S.-China competition Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube. Transcript here. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. REFERENCES & SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIALS: “How China hopes to win from the war,” The Economist, April 1, 2026. "The Stakes of Trump vs. Xi," Kurt Campbell, Foreign Affairs, May 2026. “Xi Is Planning for China’s Final Victory Over the U.S.,” The New York Times, Julian Gerwirtz, May 13, 2026.  “What a former CIA analyst reveals about a potential China fight,” Max Book Interview with John Culver, The Washington Post, May 11, 2026 “U.S. Intelligence Shows Iran Retains Substantial Missile Capabilities,” Adam Entous, Maggie Haberman, and Jonathan Swan, The New York Times, May 12, 2026. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 10m
  3. Iran War & Trump’s Europe Troop Drawdown: What Comes Next?

    MAY 7

    Iran War & Trump’s Europe Troop Drawdown: What Comes Next?

    Iran war developments, including new signs of a potential deal, UAE’s withdrawal from OPEC, and what weeks of conflict have revealed about U.S. leverage. In this episode, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer discuss: - Why a deal with Iran may be inevitable but harder to reach now - How markets, military risks, and politics are shaping Trump’s strategy - Warnings about depleted U.S. munitions  - Why the UAE is leaving OPEC and what it says about tensions with Saudi Arabia - A Red Team/Blue Team debate on in U.S. reducing troops in Europe Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. Show notes are available here. Transcript available here. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 11m
  4. China’s Engineering State vs. America’s Lawyerly Society (w/Dan Wang)

    APR 29

    China’s Engineering State vs. America’s Lawyerly Society (w/Dan Wang)

    Dan Wang, author of Breakneck, breaks down the divide between China’s “engineering state” and America’s “lawyerly society” and what that means for the future of U.S.-China competition. Wang joined Jake and Jon before a live audience at the Endless Frontiers conference in Austin, Texas. In this episode: - Why China builds at scale and why the U.S. often struggles to keep up - The strengths and limits of China’s model, from manufacturing to social policy - A closer look at Xi Jinping’s leadership and decision-making - Why “process knowledge” is key to rebuilding American capacity Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. Show notes are available here. Transcript coming soon. Join us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 10m
  5. Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)

    APR 22

    Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)

    H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger, former National Security Adviser and Deputy National Security Adviser to President Trump in his first administration, join Jake and Jon for a wide-ranging conversation on Iran, China, and how national security decisions get made at the highest level. Drawing on their time in the White House, they debate the decision to go to war with Iran, the nature of Iran’s nuclear program, and what a successful outcome would even look like. As McMaster puts it, “a lot of times you’re looking at the least bad option.” Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode.  New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. Show notes are available here. Transcript coming soon. Join us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 18m
  6. John Kerry on Iran, Israel, and Diplomacy

    APR 16

    John Kerry on Iran, Israel, and Diplomacy

    Former Secretary of State John Kerry, who has spent more time negotiating with Iranian leaders than anyone, joins Jake and Jon to discuss the marathon diplomacy efforts that resulted in the JCPOA, Trump’s decision to strike Iran, the likelihood of a deal, the prospects for a two state solution between Israel and Palestinians, and the future of the U.S.-Israel relationship. Then, Jake and Jon discuss Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s surprising defeat in Hungary’s election and what his loss means for the MAGA movement, Trump’s relationship to Europe’s far right, and Ukraine.   Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. For show notes and transcripts, find and follow us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo credit: Thomas Imo/Photothek via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 15m
  7. Iran Ceasefire Explained: Winners, Losers, and What Comes Next

    APR 9

    Iran Ceasefire Explained: Winners, Losers, and What Comes Next

    Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer break down the ceasefire between the United States and Iran, announced Tuesday evening.  They walk through how the deal came together from President Trump’s escalating rhetoric to Pakistan’s role as an unlikely intermediary and assess what the ceasefire actually is, and what it isn’t. They also break down the deeper questions about what the U.S. achieved, what Iran gained, and how this reshapes the strategic balance going forward. Topics discussed: What the ceasefire includes and address the major gaps that remain Why Iran’s control over the Strait of Hormuz may be the most important outcome of the war What could come out of the upcoming negotiations, including the future of Iran’s nuclear stockpile The impact of the war on U.S. deterrence, military readiness, and global credibility The broader implications for Russia, China, NATO, and the U.S.-Israel relationship At the end of the episode, Jake and Jon open up the Long Game mailbag for the first time, answering listener questions on targeted assassinations, Russia’s status as a great power, what’s next for Cuba, and why they started the podcast after leaving the government. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. Show notes are available here. Transcript available here. Join us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 13m
  8. Trump's Iran Speech & Debating the Deal

    APR 2

    Trump's Iran Speech & Debating the Deal

    One month into the war with Iran, President Trump addressed the nation in prime time — but instead of clarity, the same big questions remain about how this war ends. This week, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer break down what the president said, what he didn’t say, and what it reveals about where this war is heading. They then take on a Red Team / Blue Team exercise: Jon argues to Iran’s leadership that it should take the deal; Jake makes the hardline case that Iran should stand firm and let America suffer. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. For show notes and transcripts, find and follow us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo credit: Photographer: Alex Brandon/AP Photo/Bloomberg via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 14m
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4.7
out of 5
309 Ratings

About

The Long Game is a weekly national security podcast hosted by Jake Sullivan, President Biden’s National Security Advisor, and Jon Finer, his Principal Deputy—senior aides who sat in on the classified Presidential Daily Brief each morning and translated raw intelligence into policy advice. Each week, Jake and Jon will pull back the curtain on how power really works helping you make sense of the national security stories unfolding today. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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