Thinking With Mitch Joel

Mitch Joel
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Six Pixels of Separation - Mitch Joel's weekly conversation with business leaders, thinkers, innovators and cultural icons. The show is about insights and provocations on brands, consumers, technology, business and how connected we've all become.

  1. Real Transformations With Phil Gilbert - TWMJ #1022

    4D AGO

    Real Transformations With Phil Gilbert - TWMJ #1022

    Welcome to episode #1022 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a moment when organizational change is too often treated as a mandate rather than an experience people choose to embrace, Phil Gilbert has spent his career proving that transformation only sticks when it earns genuine buy-in. Phil is a design executive, transformation leader and former General Manager of Design at IBM, where he architected one of the largest cultural and operational shifts in corporate history, helping nearly 400,000 employees across 180 countries become more entrepreneurial, agile and customer-centered. Trained as both a designer and systems thinker, Phil brought design thinking out of studios and into the core of enterprise decision-making, reshaping how teams collaborated, how products were built, and how leaders understood their customers. His work at IBM addressed hard truths, including the company's struggles with usability and missed opportunities in the early cloud era, by treating change itself as a product worthy of rigor, investment, and care. That experience became the foundation for his book Irresistible Change - A Blueprint For Earning Buy-In And Breakout Success, which blends narrative and field guide to show how large organizations can scale transformation by focusing on people, practices, and environments rather than slogans or top-down directives. Phil's approach reframes culture as an outcome, not an initiative, arguing that lasting change emerges when employees see themselves in the future being designed. Beyond IBM, his work as an executive coach and advisor continues to focus on how leaders navigate complexity, align teams, and thoughtfully integrate technologies like AI into human systems without eroding trust or creativity. Grounded in real-world execution rather than theory, Phil's perspective challenges organizations to stop forcing change and start making it irresistible. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:02:49. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Phil Gilbert. Irresistible Change - A Blueprint For Earning Buy-In And Breakout Success. Follow Phil on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Phil Gilbert and His Journey. (01:26) - IBM's Transformation and Challenges. (04:17) - The Shift from Technology to Product. (10:55) - Implementing Design Thinking at IBM. (16:30) - Cultural Change and Its Impact on Outcomes. (22:53) - The Role of Teams in Transformation. (26:40) - Branding the Change: Hallmark Program. (32:22) - The Importance of Team Selection in Transformation. (34:59) - Creating Demand for Change. (37:23) - Agency and Team Resilience. (38:06) - IBM's Market Position and Transformation. (41:14) - The Shift in Work Dynamics. (44:46) - Rethinking Office Spaces. (48:58) - Irresistible Change and Transformation Failures. (53:51) - AI Integration and Market Forces. (59:38) - The Impact of Design Thinking on Business.

    1h 3m
  2. Navigating Strategy In The Age Of AI With Roger Martin - TWMJ #1021

    FEB 1

    Navigating Strategy In The Age Of AI With Roger Martin - TWMJ #1021

    Welcome to episode #1021 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when strategy is often confused with forecasting and certainty is mistaken for rigor, the work of Roger Martininsists on a more demanding discipline: making clear, integrated choices under uncertainty. Named the world's #1 management thinker by Thinkers50 in 2017, Roger is a writer, strategy advisor, and the former Dean at the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto, where he served for fifteen years and reshaped how management education engages with real-world complexity. Over decades, he has advised CEOs at companies including Procter & Gamble, Lego, Ford, American Express, Verizon, and Steelcase, helping leaders move beyond abstract ambition toward actionable, coherent strategies. His thinking has long been a personal touchstone for navigating difficult, high-stakes business problems, and he remains my go-to guide when confronting complexity that resists easy answers… a familiarity reinforced by his return here after previous appearances. Before academia, he spent thirteen years at Monitor, serving as co-head of the firm and grounding his thinking in the realities of corporate decision-making. His newly updated book, Playing To Win, Expanded With Bonus HBR Articles - How Strategy Really Works co-authored with A.G. Lafley, remains one of the most influential strategy texts of the modern era, distilling strategy into a set of five integrated choices about where to play and how to win, supported by capabilities and systems that reinforce those decisions. Across thirteen books and more than thirty Harvard Business Review articles, Roger has explored integrative thinking, democratic capitalism, governance and the design of business itself, consistently challenging leaders to resist false tradeoffs and simplistic answers. His work confronts contemporary issues head-on: the misuse of AI as an answer machine rather than a thinking partner, the hollowing out of education into ideological extremes, the erosion of institutional trust and the persistent illusion that the future must resemble the past. Through it all, his argument is steady and clear: strategy fundamentals endure, and superior managerial effectiveness begins with disciplined thinking, principled choice, and the courage to commit. If you're not following his free Substack, you reall should. It's always an honor to spend tie with Roger. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 58:39. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Roger Martin. His free Substack. Playing To Win, Expanded With Bonus HBR Articles - How Strategy Really Works. Follow Roger on X.  Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Roger Martin. (02:53) - The Evolution of AI in Strategy. (06:05) - AI as a Thought Partner vs. Answer Provider. (09:02) - The Role of Diversity in Decision Making. (11:49) - The Impact of Education on Polarization. (15:15) - The Misapplication of Science in Society. (18:09) - Navigating Truth in Business. (21:08) - The Experimentation Mindset in Business. (31:55) - The Flaws in Business Education. (34:37) - Philosophical Perspectives on Decision Making. (40:21) - The Impact of Macro Factors on Business. (49:20) - The Shift in Global Economic Power. (55:23) - Skepticism Towards Economic Predictions. (58:01) - Trust in the Health Profession.

    59 min
  3. Boundless Creativity And Design Mastery With David "Shingy" Shing - TWMJ #1020

    JAN 25

    Boundless Creativity And Design Mastery With David "Shingy" Shing - TWMJ #1020

    Welcome to episode #1020 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when technology listens more closely than people realize and advertising feels less predictive than presumptive, understanding how culture, data and human behavior collide has become essential. David "Shingy" Shing has spent his career at that intersection, shaping how global brands think about creativity, relevance and the emotional consequences of digital systems. Know as the Digital Prophet at AOL (and then Verizon) and a very influential voice in modern branding and innovation, Shingy has advised companies, leaders and creatives on how emerging technologies reshape not just markets, but meaning itself. His work has consistently challenged organizations to move beyond optimization toward empathy, imagination and cultural intelligence. He argues that the most important signals in a data-saturated world are often the quietest ones. That perspective now finds a more personal, reflective outlet in his Substack, Shingy, a newsletter focused on branding, culture, AI and the human side of technology. He explores how conversational data, algorithmic inference and attention-driven business models are altering the relationship between consumers and the systems designed to serve them. Shingy examines why ads increasingly feel intrusive rather than helpful, how conversations themselves have become raw material for targeting and why consumer fatigue is less about frequency than about lost agency. Shingy's work surfaces a growing tension between personalization and privacy, usefulness and surveillance, convenience and control. He argues that as machines become better listeners, brands must become better stewards of restraint, intent and respect... or risk eroding the very relationships they're trying to monetize. Grounded in curiosity and creative provocation, his thinking offers a necessary counterweight to an industry too often obsessed with what can be done instead of what should be done. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:02:31. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with David "Shingy" Shing. Shingy's Substack. Follow Shingy on Instagram. Follow Shingy on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Evolution of Digital and Consumer Behavior. (05:01) - Generative AI: A New Paradigm. (10:02) - Creativity in the Age of AI. (20:11) - Marketing in a Changing Landscape. (32:10) - The Shift from Influence to Interpretation. (35:03) - The Evolution of Content Creation. (39:00) - Niche Markets and the New Mass. (44:07) - The Complexity of Advertising and Intent. (51:03) - Power Dynamics in the Age of AI. (57:02) - The Future of Creativity and Connection.

    1h 3m
  4. Leadership Unblocked With Muriel Wilkins - TWMJ #1019

    JAN 18

    Leadership Unblocked With Muriel Wilkins - TWMJ #1019

    Welcome to episode #1019 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when leadership is being tested less by strategy and more by inner capacity, clarity of judgment and emotional steadiness, the work of Muriel Wilkins stands out for its insistence that progress begins from the inside out. Muriel is an executive coach, CEO of Paravis Partners, and a trusted advisor to senior leaders navigating complexity at the highest levels of organizations, drawing on more than two decades of experience working with C-suite executives and high-potential leaders. A Harvard Business School graduate with a background in consulting and corporate leadership, she brings uncommon credibility to the often-abstract world of coaching, pairing business fluency with deep insight into human behavior, adult development and decision-making under pressure. Her book, Leadership Unblocked - Break Through The Beliefs That Limit Your Potential, distills years of coaching practice into a clear-eyed examination of the unconscious beliefs that quietly constrain leaders, revealing how assumptions about control, certainty, identity and responsibility shape  (and often limit) how leaders respond to challenge. Rather than offering tactical fixes or performative confidence, Muriel's work focuses on expanding a leader's capacity to hold complexity, see multiple options and respond with intention rather than reflex. She explores how leaders mature over time, why success can actually stall growth, and how unexamined beliefs turn everyday pressure into unnecessary suffering. Her perspective reframes leadership development as adult development, emphasizing that the ability to lead others sustainably depends on a leader's willingness to do their own internal work. In an era defined by uncertainty, generational shifts and accelerating technology, Muriel's thinking argues for a quieter but more demanding form of leadership... one rooted in self-awareness, discernment and the courage to question one's own mental models before attempting to change anyone else's. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 52:33. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Muriel Wilkins. Leadership Unblocked - Break Through The Beliefs That Limit Your Potential. Paravis Partner. Coaching Real Leaders Podcast. Follow Muriel on Instagram. Follow Muriel on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Executive Coaching. (02:13) - The Journey to Coaching. (05:26) - Common Themes in Leadership. (07:37) - The Evolution of Executive Coaching. (10:50) - Leadership as Coaching. (11:49) - Generational Shifts in Leadership. (15:08) - Adult Development and Leadership. (17:57) - The Illusion of Status. (20:55) - Authenticity in Leadership. (24:42) - Adult Development Theory in Practice. (26:41) - Understanding Adult Development Theory. (30:04) - The Evolution of Coaching Practices. (32:12) - Shifting Perspectives on Leadership. (34:53) - The Role of AI in Leadership. (39:47) - Discernment and Decision-Making in Leadership. (47:44) - Navigating Current Challenges in Leadership.

    53 min
  5. More Humane Work With Joe O'Connor - TWMJ #1018

    JAN 11

    More Humane Work With Joe O'Connor - TWMJ #1018

    Welcome to episode #1018 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a moment when burnout is normalized and productivity is still measured by hours rather than impact, the five-day workweek is starting to look less like a foundation of modern life and more like an outdated design choice. Joe O'Connoris the CEO of Work Time Revolution and one of the world's leading architects of the four-day workweek, having designed and led large-scale pilots across multiple countries, industries and organizational types. His work sits at the intersection of labor economics, organizational culture and performance design, helping companies rethink how work actually gets done in a knowledge-based, AI-accelerated economy. Joe has advised governments, nonprofits and private-sector leaders on how to redesign work in ways that improve employee well-being while maintaining (or increasing) organizational performance, challenging deeply held assumptions about time, output and commitment. His new book, Do More In Four - Why It's Time For A Shorter Workweek (with co-author Jared Lindzon), brings together research, real-world case studies and global experimentation to argue that the five-day workweek is neither inevitable nor optimal. Joe shows how reducing work time can sharpen focus, improve equity and force organizations to confront outdated productivity metrics built for an industrial era. He also examines how AI is accelerating the need for new work models, exposing the inefficiencies of activity-based measurement and pushing leaders to define productivity in terms of outcomes, not presence. Grounded in data yet pragmatic about cultural resistance, Joe's perspective positions the four-day workweek not as an employee concession, but as a competitive advantage for organizations willing to rethink the rules of work before the market forces them to. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 55:55. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Joe O'Connor. Do More In Four - Why It's Time For A Shorter Workweek. Work Time Revolution. Jared Lindzon. Follow Joe on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Evolution of the Work Week. (02:57) - Rethinking Productivity in the Age of AI. (05:50) - Work-Life Balance: A Modern Dilemma. (09:09) - The Four-Day Work Week: A Societal Aspiration. (12:08) - AI's Impact on Work Structures. (15:03) - Cultural Dynamics in Work Environments. (17:58) - Challenges in Implementing Change. (21:09) - Market Forces and the Future of Work. (29:56) - The Evolution of the Four-Day Work Week. (35:30) - Measuring Productivity in a New Work Model. (42:15) - Cultural Dynamics and Leadership in the Four-Day Work Week. (48:55) - AI's Role in Shaping Future Work Models. (53:22) - Gender Equality and Flexibility in the Workplace.

    56 min
  6. Why We're All Digitally Exhausted With Paul Leonardi - TWMJ #1017

    JAN 4

    Why We're All Digitally Exhausted With Paul Leonardi - TWMJ #1017

    Welcome to episode #1017 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when technology promises limitless capability yet leaves so many people mentally depleted, the question is no longer whether digital tools are powerful, but whether we know how to live with them. Paul Leonardi is a leading expert on digital transformation, the future of work, and organizational networks, with more than two decades of research and advisory work focused on how technology reshapes collaboration, innovation, and human behavior. A professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara, where he holds the Duca Family Endowed Chair and chairs the Department of Technology Management, Paul has advised Fortune 500 companies, startups, and nonprofits on navigating the people side of technological change. His work has shaped global conversations, translating rigorous research into practical frameworks leaders can actually use. His latest book, Digital Exhaustion - Simple Rules For Reclaiming Your Life, confronts a growing paradox of modern work and life: technologies that make everything possible are also wearing us down. Drawing on years of research and real-world observation, Paul explains why digital exhaustion isn't simply about screen time, but about constant task switching, inference-making in data-saturated environments, and the emotional toll of being perpetually reachable. He examines how capitalist incentives and addictive design amplify fatigue, why generational differences don't offer immunity, and how the collapse of clear boundaries between work, home, and identity has created a new baseline of psychological strain. Rather than advocating withdrawal or digital detoxes, Paul offers a more realistic path rooted in intentionality, clearer norms, and conscious choices about which tools deserve our attention. His work reframes exhaustion not as personal failure, but as a systemic condition that can be managed through better design, better habits, and a more humane relationship with technology. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:02:56. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Paul Leonardi. Digital Exhaustion - Simple Rules For Reclaiming Your Life. The Digital Mindset. Follow Paul on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Digital Exhaustion. (02:48) - The Dark Side of Technology. (06:13) - The Role of Capitalism in Digital Overwhelm. (09:00) - Generational Perspectives on Technology. (11:55) - The Search for Baselines in Digital Interaction. (14:54) - The Psychological and Physical Aspects of Exhaustion. (17:46) - Addiction to Technology. (20:55) - Strategies for Managing Digital Tools. (23:52) - The Complexity of Productivity in the Digital Age. (26:51) - The Future of AI and Digital Interaction. (32:37) - The Data Arms Race and Human Representation. (34:58) - The Shift from Attention to Intimacy Economy. (38:02) - Default Urgency and Social Norms in Communication. (42:19) - The Power of Intentional Response. (46:00) - Attention Span: Short vs. Long. (53:02) - The Joy of Missing Out vs. Fear of Missing Out. (56:35) - Parenting in the Age of Social Media.

    1h 3m
  7. AI And The Future Of Marketing With Mark Schaefer - TWMJ #1016

    12/28/2025

    AI And The Future Of Marketing With Mark Schaefer - TWMJ #1016

    Welcome to episode #1016 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a moment when artificial intelligence is reshaping not just how markets operate but how people think, feel, decide and connect, understanding the human consequences of that shift has become essential. Mark Schaefer is a keynote speaker, educator, strategist, and a voice in modern marketing, with more than three decades of experience spanning global sales, public relations and brand strategy. He is a faculty member at Rutgers University. Mark's latest book, How AI Changes Your Customers - The Marketing Guide To Humanity's Next Chapter, extends his body of work by examining how AI is quietly rewiring consumer psychology, trust, agency, empathy, and belonging (be sure to check out his other books). Rather than focusing on algorithms or tools, Mark explores how customers are becoming more machine-assisted, less patient, more dependent on automation, and increasingly hungry for meaning and connection in a world optimized for efficiency. He argues that curiosity, art, and human connection are strategic advantages rather than soft ideals. Grounded in research, lived experience, and cultural observation, his work challenges marketers and leaders to rethink relevance, rethink loyalty, and rethink what it means to serve customers whose decisions are increasingly shaped by machines. At its core, Mark's perspective reframes AI not as a threat to humanity, but as a force that exposes what only humans can still do well…if they choose to lean into it. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:06:07. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Mark Schaefer. Book Mark for your next meeting on ThinkersOne. How AI Changes Your Customers - The Marketing Guide To Humanity's Next Chapter. Check out his other books. Read Mark's Blog. Follow Mark on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Mark Schaefer and AI's Impact. (03:00) - The Dual Nature of AI: Exciting and Terrifying. (06:09) - Cultural Shifts and AI's Influence on Humanity. (08:53) - Curiosity and Learning in the Age of AI. (12:08) - The Role of AI in Content Creation. (14:57) - Art, Tools, and the Essence of Creativity. (17:54) - The Illusion of Intimacy in AI. (21:05) - Navigating the Attention vs. Intimacy Economy. (23:54) - The Future of AI and Human Connection. (37:13) - Cultural Perspectives on AI and Work. (39:06) - AI Sovereignty and Global Implications. (41:23) - The Human Element in AI and Marketing. (43:42) - The Challenge of Authenticity in AI Content. (45:52) - Navigating Trust in a Digital Age. (49:20) - Generational Differences in Trust and Truth. (53:02) - The Role of Curiosity in the Age of AI. (56:46) - The Future of Trust and AI in Business. (01:01:40) - The Impact of AI on Human Connection. (01:03:59) - Embracing AI for Positive Change.

    1h 6m
  8. Navigate Hidden Markets With Judd Kessler - TWMJ #1015

    12/21/2025

    Navigate Hidden Markets With Judd Kessler - TWMJ #1015

    Welcome to episode #1015 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a moment when scarcity shapes everything from opportunity to attention, understanding who gets what (and why) has become one of the most consequential questions in modern life. Judd Kessler is the inaugural Howard Marks Endowed Professor at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, an award-winning economist, and one of the leading thinkers in market design, public policy and behavioral economics. His research examines how rules, incentives, and institutional structures shape outcomes in environments where price alone cannot (or should not) decide allocation, from organ donation systems to education, labor markets, and beyond. Recognized early for his impact, Judd was named one of Forbes' "30 Under 30" in Law and Policy for his work on organ allocation and received the Vernon L. Smith Ascending Scholar Prize in 2021. His first (and new) book, Lucky by Design - The Hidden Economics You Need to Get More of What You Want, distills years of research into how "hidden markets" - those governed by rules rather than prices - quietly determine access to jobs, schools, tickets, healthcare, and even relationships. Judd explores the mechanics of scarcity, the strategic role of lotteries, waiting lists, and signaling, and how individuals unknowingly participate in market design every day. He also examines how AI is beginning to reshape allocation systems, why visible markets increasingly contain hidden layers, and how better design can improve both efficiency and equity. Grounded in rigorous scholarship yet deeply practical, Judd's work reframes luck not as randomness, but as something shaped by systems we can understand and sometimes redesign. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 57:59. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Judd Kessler. Lucky by Design - The Hidden Economics You Need to Get More of What You Want. Follow Judd on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Navigating Economic Sentiments. (03:03) - Understanding Hidden Markets. (06:11) - The Dynamics of Scarcity and Value. (08:53) - The Role of Consultants in Hidden Markets. (11:48) - Market Design and Equity. (14:57) - Strategies for Market Participation. (18:11) - The Impact of Social Proof on Demand. (20:54) - Reimagining Market Structures. (31:57) - Creating Scarcity and Demand. (34:28) - Market Design and Allocation Strategies. (36:39) - The Impact of Replicas and Knockoffs. (46:44) - Hidden Markets: Positive or Negative? (49:47) - AI in Market Design. (59:01) - Becoming a Market Designer.

    58 min
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About

Six Pixels of Separation - Mitch Joel's weekly conversation with business leaders, thinkers, innovators and cultural icons. The show is about insights and provocations on brands, consumers, technology, business and how connected we've all become.

Information

  • Creator
    Mitch Joel
  • Years Active
    2006 - 2026
  • Episodes
    342
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2025
  • Show Website
    Thinking With Mitch Joel

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