In This Week In Solar’s one hundredth episode, Aaron Nichols sits down with Mr. Money Mustache. They dive into the unnecessary red tape surrounding traditional solar installations and explore some highly unconventional, DIY ways to capture the sun’s energy without asking for permission. Pete became an internet legend under the pseudonym Mr. Money Mustache. By optimizing his spending, earning, and investing (and always maximizing for fun while minimizing cost), Pete managed to retire at the age of 30. Pete is also a self-proclaimed “eco-nerd” who loves harnessing the free magic energy from the sky that is solar power. You can listen to this episode here, or on: * YouTube * Apple Podcasts * Spotify If you’ve learned something from This Week In Solar and you’d like to learn more, drop your email below, and we’ll keep sending you free solar news! Expect to learn: * How Pete bypassed city permits by buying cheap used solar panels on Craigslist and wiring them directly into his electric water heater for free hot water. * Why solar is so expensive in the United States compared to countries like Germany and Australia (hint: it’s mostly administrative red tape). * Pete’s wild DIY trick using a $20 farmer’s bucket heater and a direct solar connection to turn his hot tub into a 120-degree cauldron of free, sun-powered hot water. * How to make sure you’re working with a reputable, locally owned solar installer like Exact Solar. Quote from the episode: “It takes very little resources to manufacture a solar panel... You put it in the sun, it's paid back its manufacturing costs within something like three months in terms of the embodied energy. And then it's like 30 more years of profit that you're helping the earth.” — Pete (Mr. Money Mustache) Transcript: Aaron Nichols Hey guys, a quick note before today’s episode with Mr. Money Mustache. Pete, who I interview, has a huge risk tolerance. He’s known for doing out-there things and he’s gonna describe some things that are pretty unsafe. Now, if you are interested in putting solar on your home, consult with qualified professionals. Electricity is no joke. You can really hurt yourself and we would hate to see that. So, please talk to us at X-ACC Solar if you live in New Jersey or Pennsylvania, if you’re thinking of putting solar on your home, and do not go messing around with the electricity in your own home unless you have qualifications. Now, without further ado, enjoy today’s interview with Mr. Money Mustache. Aaron Nichols Pete, I know you as Pete. The world knows you as Mr. Money Mustache. Not too long ago, you asked me to help you break down the solar energy system you’d put on your roof and you’d done something really unique with it. So I’d like to launch into that story. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Oh yeah. Sure. Okay. So the background is that I’m an electrical guy in the past, like an electrical engineer, and I’ve done wiring, full houses. So I’m comfortable with all your electricity stuff. But what I don’t like is a lot of red tape and permits and high fees that usually comes with solar, especially like the city we’re in right now, Longmont, is a little bit solar unfriendly compared to some other cities. So I just had a bunch of solar panels that I got off of Craigslist and I wired them up and really just chucked them onto my roof. I didn’t even mount them. I just made like a little metal frame and set them in there. And then I ran that DC current right into an electric water heater. And because of the principles of electricity, a heating element doesn’t care whether you’ve done gone through a fancy inverter and made AC or not, it’s just like solar panels right into the water heater and then I got free hot water for like a year and a half total cost of like just the cost of the solar panels on Craigslist so maybe like $800 of solar panels and I made about $400 of electricity with them in just the first, like per year I guess. So it’s like a giant return on investment compared to these systems where you spend many thousands of dollars in order to save like a little bit more per year. But it takes like sometimes 15 or 20 years to pay it back. Aaron Nichols So for anyone who doesn’t know, I mean you have written online and published all sorts of stuff about how to financially and how otherwise optimize your life. Would you just give the audience an overview of who you are, what you’re about. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah, okay, that’s a bigger story. I, on the internet, I write as Mr. Money Mustache, although my real identity is not a secret either. And the basic idea is I like to optimize everything, maximizing for fun, preferably at minimal cost, especially when I was younger, when I didn’t have a lot of money. So what that led to is optimizing my whole spending and earning and investing. And it led to me being able to retire when I was 30 years old, just in time to start raising a child, get married, raising a kid and now I’ve been retired for like almost 22 years because I’m like coming up on 52 years old so it’s just been like a giant fun story of freedom and then I decided to start writing about this at some point and that’s where the Mr. Money Mustache blog was born. Aaron Nichols Yeah and you’ve been a big fan of solar for a long time I mean the building we’re sitting in now which for anyone who doesn’t know you own this building it’s like half co-working space half community center yeah and it is powered by the Sun. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah somewhat like it’s a grid-tied solar system and during the summer it makes more electricity than we use and during the winter it runs a deficit so we have to pay a power bill and pull it out of the grid. Aaron Nichols So why are you such a fan of solar? Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Just because it’s magic free energy from the sky. It’s like raining the equivalent of money down onto you everywhere on earth. So why wouldn’t you want to harvest it? It just seems super cool to me. Aaron Nichols Yeah. I remember, I mean, you’re actually one of the reasons I wound up in the solar industry was reading your story of how you actually got solar on this building. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Oh, I didn’t know that. Aaron Nichols Yeah. This was years ago before I was still a vagabond just traveling before I decided to do the installer training that I did and everything that took me here I was just like my god he made solar sound so cool. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah well thanks. Yeah. And I also like it because I’m a closet eco nerd as well right like I care about the environment I don’t like pollution so anytime I can displace fossil fuels with clean energy I like that too. But if you do it with the right little tweaks on how you do it it can be more profitable and less hassle and that’s also what I like. Aaron Nichols So let’s talk about ways that people can use this amazing technology without permission and also how they can be safe doing so. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah. Yeah. Some of the stuff I do is not always safe. Aaron Nichols I’ve been with you for some of those experiences. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah. Like when we took the tree down to the coworking space. Aaron Nichols Oh yeah. Some big heavy stuff falling down. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah. I’m a little bit of a honey badger. I might have used up a couple of my nine lives if I were a cat. So don’t exactly do what I do, but you can choose the things that are safe. So what I would recommend... What first comes to mind with today’s solar environment is you buy one of those like all-in-one solar generator battery units, have dropped in price so much. Your solar panels go straight into that and it’s just got a bunch of plugs on the front. And if you get a big enough one, you can have thousands of watts of solar going in there and thousands of watts coming out to power all your stuff, like your hot tub and your electric car and anything else that uses a lot of power. And it can be completely off grid. So you don’t need a permit to do it. And that’s the easiest way to get comfortable and have some fun with solar. And then you can scale up from there. And then there’s like the new laws, which you might mention in this podcast that allow you to have like a mini grid tide system, right? Aaron Nichols Yeah. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Then of course, if you have a big enough house and a big enough budget, then it starts to shift over to become profitable to do the big array and make it grid tied. And that’s what we did here at this building because I really wanted it to make a surplus of power and then, you know, get credits that last through the seasons. Aaron Nichols Yeah. Big fan of the battery option, just getting a little battery and plugging appliances into it because power’s just getting more and more expensive. Like you said, those things are cheap and that’s such a great option, especially for, let’s say, renters who don’t own their home. They don’t have the option to put solar on their roofs, but their bills just keep going up and up. There’s nothing stopping you. And it’s not even dangerous from buying a solar panel on Craigslist, buying a battery bank on Craigslist and plugging your refrigerator into it. Yeah, and the cool thing is, especially I moved from Longmont to Denver, in Denver we have time of use pricing and from 5 to 9 p.m. each day the price triples just for those few hours. So you can do tricks like have one of those batteries on a little timer, even if you didn’t have solar it could just charge from the grid and then it flips off the power supply at 5 o’clock and then your fridge runs from 5 to 9 on cheap power and then it recharges itself after hours, simplest system of all. We can later like put in the show notes or something exactly how this would work. So that’s level one. Or if you plug some