VINE and BUBBLE Podcast VINE and BUBBLE

Louis Roederer’s chef de caves, Jean Baptiste Lécaillon, is something like a unicorn in Champagne.



He is much more than a winemaker – or winegrower – for that matter. It’s no secret that he has been a trailblazer for progressive sustainability, not only at the Maison, but across the entire industry. I like to think of him as a grand philosopher – a kind of maestro – for the region’s trajectory for environmental change to be better prepared for climate challenges, but also for what he terms ‘the pursuit of taste‘ and returning to craftsmanship.



Over more than two decades, Jean-Baptiste’s frustration for excellence has culminated in the Maison’s reputation as one of the finest in all of Champagne, with wines that consistently rank amongst the best within wine critic circles and various media.



But today, we are here to talk about Champagne’s most exclusive Rosé – Cristal Rosé – because this year is particularly special, marking 50 years since its first vintage in 1974.



These are precious and rare wines, meticulously and lovingly made that possess a softness and deliciousness that is not heavy, nor light, within a finely chiselled chalk framework.



In 2007, Cristal Rosé became Jean-Baptiste’s first biodynamically farmed ‘baby’, which was also the first for a prestige champagne. Their beautiful evolution as a wine over time, punctuated with textural luxury, represents the culmination of this long-documented path to biodynamics and craftsmanship.



It was my honour to sit down with Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon on the occasion of Cristal Rosé’s 50th Anniversary, for this special interview.

Dominique Demarville is one of Champagne’s legendary winemakers, with an impressive career spanning 24 years as a vineyard director, cellar master and general manager at some of Champagne’s leading Maisons.  



In 2003, when just 31 years of age, he became the youngest chef de caves for both G.H.Mumm and Perrier-Jouët before moving onto Veuve Clicquot where he was Cellar Master and Deputy Director.



They were golden opportunities to delve deep into the complex world of champagne winemaking at the highest level which in turn allowed him to come into his own and leave a distinctive mark.



At Veuve, Dominique made significant improvements to La Grande Dame and launched a new multi-vintage cuvée, Extra Brut Extra Old, which was quite a new concept at the time.



Dominque recently inherited a new role, as cellar master and general manager, for Champagne Lallier in 2021 where he says there is great opportunity for progress and creativity.



It was my pleasure to interview Dominique during my recent visit to Champagne.

Today we are going to delve into the mysterious world of
reductive champagne winemaking. If you’re a champagne lover – or any wine lover – no doubt you’ve heard this discussed in a way that is oversimplified, or maybe misleading. But it is a hugely complex and sometimes confusing topic.

The best examples of reductive winemaking, produce wines of freshness and fruit character that are pure and layered with elegance and tension. This stands in contrast to oxidative winemaking which allows a controlled exchange with the air, producing styles that can be medium to full bodied with a rounded mouthfeel and notes of jelly fruits in the case of chardonnay or hazelnut and tobacco in Pinot Noir.

During this podcast, we will navigate through the complexity
with the multi-award winning sparkling winemaker Kate Laurie from Deviation Road Winery in the Adelaide Hills. If you’re in Australia, perhaps you’ve heard of Kate, but you may not be unaware of her extensive background living and studying in Champagne, notably at the Lycée Viticole d’Avize. Her studies and work experience included writing a thesis in French and gaining experience at numerous growers whom she still counts among
her many local friends.

I hope you enjoy this detailed discussion.

Today we’re going to look at typicity. Typicity can be seen as what is ‘typical’ for a wine’s origins  - geography, terroir, varietal type, even viticulture and winemaking. But what does it mean when applied to champagne? 

I cannot think of anyone more qualified to talk about this concept of typicity than my guest today, Marcell Kustos PhD, who has built an impressive career as a fine wine and hospitality consultant, working with some of Australia’s best restaurants including the multi award-winning Restaurant Botanic.


After obtaining a qualification in food engineering and winemaking operations, Marcell started his career as a food product developer before turning his hand to wine. Working
as a sommelier while undertaking a Master's degree in gastronomy, he went on to complete a PhD in food, wine and emotional pairing at the University of Adelaide in collaboration with Wine Australia and UC Davis.


He is the recipient of the ASVO Advanced Wine Assessment Course Scholarship, Wine Communicators Australia Wine Industry Mentor Program, Vinitaly International Academy Italian Wine Ambassador Scholarship, Sommeliers Australia Education Scholarship and Wine Australia Research Scholarship.



He has also been a contributing author in several academic and industry journals and continues to evolve as a wine judge.



It was my privilege to interview him for this podcast.

I first met Stephen Leroux in 2018 during a visit to Charles Heidsieck in Reims. He greeted me with a warm smile and a friendly handshake, before getting down to tasting business. Unusually we started with Charles’ Rosé Reserve.

He told me, “we like to start with a non-vintage rosé as the
amount of reserve wine is twice less – at 20% with just five to six years’ of age. In our Brut Reserve, it’s the opposite with 40% reserve wine at an average of 10 years of age.”

It was a pivotal moment that re-framed my mind to appreciate
the significance of the reserve wine system in creating Charles’ unequivocal style. Their proportion and age has a massive effect on the body of the wine. Indeed, the non-vintage rose was far fresher than the non-vintage brut.

Charles’ characterful sourcing of fruit – notably the inclusion from Montgueux – and generous and masterful inclusion of reserve wines in their NVs sets the scaffolding for the Maison’s cathedral-like structure, richness and complexity.

In this interview I talk to Stephen about Charles’ defining style but also how it’s evolving as well as the rise and rise of Charles’ under his leadership and through the incredible work of former and current chefs de caves.

Tom Hewson is a writer and self-confessed ‘bubblehead’ specialising in a subject he is most passionate about – champagne.

Tom joined Decanter’s team of expert writers earlier in 2023, where he provides incredibly detailed coverage on champagne and other sparkling wines, as well as special reports for Tim Atkin MW and as a judge for the 2023 Decanter World Wine Awards.

His love of words and wine came together in an unconventional
way, during COVID, when he gave up his life on the road as a jazz musician and became inspired to start his now acclaimed blog – Six Atmospheres – along with a number of educational and rather entertaining videos on social media.

Tom’s highly-regarded publication ‘English Sparkling Wine 2020’, was released during this time and remains one of the widest independent wine-by-wine surveys for this kind of wine.

Today, Tom continues his career as a musician whilst pursuing
his love of the world’s finest bubbles.

This year I spent some time with Tom in Champagne. It was my privilege to sit down with him during harvest 2023 for this interview.