We've Got To Talk

Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • 4.8 (26)
  • Personal Journals
  • Updated Weekly

Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it! We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go about your day.

  1. Gen X: The Greatest Generation

    1d ago

    Gen X: The Greatest Generation

    Why do people say that Gen X was the very last generation to have a real childhood? In this episode, we take a look at what it was like growing up Gen X and what it really means to belong to the smallest age grouping in modern history. We examine how our unique position between the analog and digital eras completely shaped our worldview, creating a cohort of people who are uniquely resilient and private. We look at the hilarious and slightly heartbreaking reality of being the original latchkey kids. From dodging broken bones in unsupervised neighborhoods to sitting with constructive boredom before smartphones existed, we look at the exact moments that taught us how to solve our own problems. We also take an honest look at the flaws of our upbringing, unpacking the deep emotional weight behind why so many of us stopped expecting people to save us. We also take an honest and vulnerable look at ways our generation has overcorrected as parents. We look at how our desire to protect our children has led to an era of hyper-scheduling, tracking apps, and anxiety, leaving younger people afraid of basic face-to-face discomfort. From the monetization of youth sports to the mental toll of carrying around a continuous stream of social media comparison in your pocket, we dissect why modern life feels so fragile. Finally, we confront the heavy reality of the sandwich generation. We talk about the intense, everyday stress of balancing our lives while managing aging parents who failed to make a plan for the future. CHAPTER MARKERS:00 Intro. 00:40 The reality of being a Gen Xer. 00:02:39 Adapting from analog childhoods to digital realities. 00:04:50 Latchkey kids and unsupervised after-school culture. 00:06:57 How Gen X parents aggressively overcorrected. 00:07:37 Hyper-surveillance, cell phones, and college campus protests. 00:12:41 Recording radio music onto physical mixed tapes. 00:14:24 Developing a strong, lifelong b******t monitor. 00:16:10 Passing paper notes versus permanent digital records. 00:18:52 Hyper-specialized youth sports and intense childhood stress. 00:22:48 Talk radio, cable news, and Walter Cronkite. 00:24:07 Balancing news reporting before political echo chambers. 00:26:08 Living through childhood parental divorce dynamics. 00:32:08 Grateful for real-world play on our streets. 00:33:51 Watching younger generations battle smartphone anxieties. 00:35:34 Surviving the stressful modern sandwich generation trap. 00:37:12 Gen X operates as society's quiet fixers. RESOURCES MENTIONED: https://youtu.be/GVxSREVTFTA?si=xS6MPooh7mEGDc1F https://youtu.be/GVxSREVTFTA?si=xS6MPooh7mEGDc1F https://youtu.be/7Ul5CHvgRRw?si=aFh_x9UbXY_rUvQt The Coddling of the American Mind Book: https://www.thecoddling.com/ Brad Porteus Book “Roll With It”: https://book-shelfie.com/roll-with-it/ MAPS!!!! Thomas Guide: https://thomasmaps.com/la-org-thomas-guide-2025-57th-edition-in-stock-now/ The Paper Fortune Teller!!! https://youtu.be/tOcRq1fRypo?si=cD3TKSC_IrQJt658 Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    48 min
  2. Can you be Liberal and Patriotic?

    Jul 1

    Can you be Liberal and Patriotic?

    Why does celebrating the 4th of July suddenly feel like a political statement? In this episode, Jolene and Nicole tackle the upcoming 250th birthday of the United States to explore a question dividing the country: can you be liberal and patriotic? We look back at our shared childhood memories of the 200th Bicentennial parade, contrasting that early innocence with the deep anxieties and partisan divisions shaping our modern public square. We examine the staggering data behind recent Reuters and Ipsos polling that reveals a massive patriotic split between Democrats and Republicans. Nicole shares the raw conflict liberals face regarding how the flag has been weaponized, leading to an honest conversation about why loving your country shouldn't mean endorsing a specific politician. Jolene counters with a powerful reminder on why America remains the greatest nation on earth and why everyday citizens hold the real power. We also share some beautiful, real-world proof of American unity that the mainstream media completely ignores. From a peaceful, million-person celebration parade in the heart of New York City to international World Cup tourists discovering how incredibly kind and welcoming everyday Americans are, we look at the reality outside of our toxic phone screens. We talk about the dangerous ways political parties use constant labeling to keep us fighting, and why the global "American Dream" is still very much alive. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Intro. 00:23 Celebrating America's upcoming 250th birthday. 01:08 Remembering the 200th Bicentennial childhood. 01:45 Democracy as a fragile experiment. 03:36 America is the greatest nation earth. 04:24 Facing historical amnesia and tyranny. 05:22 Reclaiming patriotism from modern politicians. 05:59 Analyzing the Reuters patriotic poll. 07:00 Weaponizing the flag to divide us. 09:57 Neighborhood flags and cultural anxiety. 12:41 Does patriotism empower Donald Trump? 17:23 What makes us proud Americans. 18:36 Low voter turnout in primaries. 22:14 Encouraging the left to celebrate. 23:56 World Cup tourists discovering America. 30:22 Bizarre combat events at White House. 32:22 Discovering hope under devastating circumstances. 35:36 Sports analogies entering modern politics. 38:19 Decency will turn society around. 39:41 Would You Rather RESOURCES MENTIONED: Graham Platner: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jun/09/graham-platner-maine-senate-primary Gallup Polling - Americans Divided: https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2025/national-pride-is-declining-in-america-and-its-splitting-by-party-lines-new-gallup-polling-shows Stephen Hawkins Episode: https://youtu.be/GpcXMoW2vcg?si=HKs9cacFP8Y1ndei David French Episode: https://youtu.be/MKss8IcOB-Q Pro Hamas Protest in NYC? Episode: https://youtu.be/N1ay0AQcT7A?si=CWIPZdVwxYX0dKA3 Stacy Blakeley of Builders Episode: https://youtu.be/DyKi_sy9pko?si=HrbiNvVfUwrb1aT4 Artemis II Crew Flies Around the Moon: https://www.nasa.gov/podcasts/curious-universe/artemis-ii-circles-moon/ Let’s Make a Deal with Monte Hall: https://youtu.be/2UESBk2H62g?si=1CxM67Ig5NuTR3uL Happy Days Dance Marathon: https://youtu.be/MHA-odJh2Wk?si=Z2mgojJUCLSlpKcN Lee Greenwood’s God Bless The USA: https://youtu.be/-KoXt9pZLGM?si=mVkUsWggXm--Fb5u Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    44 min
  3. David French: How America Will Recover

    Jun 24

    David French: How America Will Recover

    Why are modern political movements suddenly reviving ideas that the world discredited decades ago? In this episode, we sit down with New York Times columnist and constitutional lawyer David French to discuss the deep psychological and cultural shifts breaking our societal guardrails. David shares his unique journey from growing up in the conservative South to serving as an JAG officer in the Army Reserve in Iraq, providing a grounded framework for why our current public discourse feels so dangerous. We focus on David's striking concept to answer the question: why we are in the great forgetting. We look at how the passing of the generations who personally survived world wars, fascism, and communism has left a vacuum in our collective memory. We talk about the terrifying ways history is currently being weaponized as a tool for ideological victory rather than studied as a pursuit of wisdom and truth. We also pull back the curtain on the dangerous rise of transactional politics on both the left and the right. Using the controversial candidacies of Graham Platner and Ken Paxton, we examine how the angriest wings of the major parties capture the primary system, leaving the "exhausted majority" to passively follow. David issues a profound warning to voters on how supporting a corrupt or cruel politician ultimately corrupts the character of the voter more than it changes the leader. Finally, we look at the vital difference between ideological moderation and temperamental moderation. We talk about why the ability to hold robust convictions while maintaining cross-political friendships is the single most important skill Americans must relearn. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Intro. 00:26 Introduction of columnist David French. 01:08 From Southern fundamentalism to constitutional law. 04:39 Serving as an Army Reserve JAG officer. 05:29 Choosing a journalism career over law. 08:52 Unpacking the Great Forgetting concept. 13:19 How educational gaps fuel historical amnesia. 14:42 Weaponizing history in the culture wars. 18:06 Losing our direct contact with history. 19:29 Ideological moderation versus temperamental moderation. 23:40 The reality of the exhausted majority. 27:44 Primary turnouts shaping general election options. 31:55 Facing decade-long pushback as Never-Trump. 33:42 How corrupt leaders change their voters. 35:37 The thermostatic nature of American politics. 37:31 Finding electoral hope in independent behavior. 45:39 Pastor Tim Keller on broken friendships. 49:33 Will MAGA survive without Donald Trump? 52:05 The cultural obsession with fake authenticity. RESOURCES MENTIONED: David’s Podcast: https://thedispatch.com/podcast/advisoryopinions/ More In Common: https://moreincommonus.com/ Brad Porteus: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ David’s Good For The Soul: The Return of the King by J.R.R. Tolkien https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61215384-the-return-of-the-king Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    1h 6m
  4. Who actually votes for Donald Trump?

    Jun 17

    Who actually votes for Donald Trump?

    Why does it feel like modern politics has shifted from simple disagreements to an all-out war for team loyalty? In this episode, we sit down with Stephen Hawkins, the director of research for More in Common, an international organization tracking the deep psychology, values, and hidden tribes behind our fractured global landscape. Stephen breaks down his journey from an evangelical College Republican to a cosmopolitan progressive activist, revealing why the simplistic categories used by the media fail to explain our real inner lives. We examine More in Common’s massive new study to answer the question: who actually votes for Donald Trump? We unpack the shocking data showing that the modern Republican voter base is the youngest and most racially diverse it has been in half a century. Jolene and Nicole share their own unexpected results from taking the coalition quiz, and we look at the real economic and border anxieties driving the "Reluctant Right" versus the deeply personal identity anchoring "MAGA Hardliners." We also pull back the curtain on the completely broken incentive structures keeping Washington D.C. locked in conflict. From social media algorithms that monetize rage to a political system that forces members of Congress to spend up to 70% of their time fundraising, we look at how combativeness has become a highly profitable business model. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Intro. 00:26 Meet research director Stephen Hawkins. 01:08 Stephen’s journey across both political tribes. 03:01 The tragic origins of More in Common. 07:08 Moving beyond simplistic demographics in polling. 11:46 Understanding America's exhausted majority. 12:42 Breaking down the modern Trump coalition. 14:21 Host results from the coalition quiz. 18:43 The myth of shy Trump voters. 20:23 MAGA hardliners and personal identity. 22:00 The Democratic perception gap on economics. 25:19 How media models monetize political rage. 27:55 The exhausting reality of congressional fundraising. 30:15 How D.C. camaraderie completely died. 34:42 Solidarity during major American crises. 38:00 Political lessons from the Gilded Age. 44:38 Why public institutional trust eroded. 47:09 Gen Z as political kingmakers. 50:56 AI as a shared societal threat. 53:52 Good for the soul book recommendation. 55:22 Would You Rather: Banning anonymous accounts. 57:32 Would You Rather: Hometown versus cruise. RESOURCES MENTIONED: Stephen Hawkins Organization: https://moreincommonus.com/ Stephen Hawkins Report: https://beyondmaga.us/ Brad Porteus: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ Stephen's Good for the Soul: https://rutgerbregman.com/books/moral-ambition Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    1h 2m
  5. Is Minimum Wage the Real Problem with Tipping Culture?

    Jun 10

    Is Minimum Wage the Real Problem with Tipping Culture?

    Tipping culture in the USA is out of control right now. In this episode, we dig into the history of tipping in America, why it became normal for customers to subsidize wages, and how the USA minimum wage rules for tipped workers still shape what you pay every time you eat out. We talk about the tipped minimum wage, the “tip credit”, and why the $2.13 an hour figure still comes up when people search “why do we tip in America” and “why is tipping expected”. We also get into the real question people argue about online: should the US get rid of tipping and switch to a no tipping model like parts of Europe and Japan? Would raising the minimum wage for servers fix tipping culture, or would it just make restaurant prices even higher? We break down what “fair pay” could look like without turning every meal into a luxury, and why so many people feel stuck between wanting to tip well and feeling pressured to tip everywhere. Then we shift into the other thing that is quietly making everyone uncomfortable: ratings culture. From Yelp and Google reviews to the constant “rate your experience” texts, we talk about why rating everything has become normal, and how online reviews can hurt small businesses when people are angry, unfair, or just trying to get free stuff. If you have ever searched “are Google reviews reliable” or “fake reviews problem”, you are going to feel very seen. Finally, we talk about Uber and Lyft ratings and why they are so problematic. When both the driver and the passenger are rating each other, it can make people afraid to be honest, even when a ride feels unsafe. Here is where we land. $2.13 an hour is bananas. Tipping has become a wage subsidy, and customers are being guilted into carrying it. And if we are going to keep rating everything, we should at least remember there are real humans on the other side of that screen. Take a breath. Contact the owner first. Give people a chance to fix it before you light them up in public. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Intro. 00:00:53 Tipping and rating culture. Why this topic hits a nerve. 00:01:35 History of tipping culture in the USA. Where “tip” comes from. 00:02:32 Why tipping spread in America. Post slavery and the railways. 00:04:53 Tipped minimum wage. Why $2.13 an hour still exists. 00:05:28 Conservative view on tipping. Rewarding good service. 00:06:36 Tip pooling. Who gets tipped and who gets left out. 00:08:27 Point of sale tipping prompts. Why tip pressure feels gross. 00:11:32 No tipping restaurants. Higher prices and better experience. 00:12:31 Restaurant tipping percentages. What is normal now. 00:14:22 Tipping guide. Counter service, salons, Uber, hotels, delivery. 00:17:03 Hotel tipping debate. When to tip housekeeping. 00:18:16 Delivery tipping. Who gets blamed when food is late. 00:22:16 Minimum wage plus tips. Republican vs Democrat framing. 00:30:07 Ratings culture. Yelp, Google reviews, and why it is everywhere. 00:32:10 Uber and Lyft ratings. Unsafe rides and fear of honesty. 00:35:30 Why ratings matter. Trust, authenticity, and buying reviews. RESOURCES MENTIONED: Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    49 min
  6. Trump’s Tax Letter & The 1776 Fund: Republican vs Democrat

    Jun 3

    Trump’s Tax Letter & The 1776 Fund: Republican vs Democrat

    In this episode, we tackle the shocking details behind Donald Trump’s latest legal maneuver. Nicole and Jolene break down why Trump suddenly dropped his massive $10 billion lawsuit against the IRS and immediately replaced it with the "$1.776 Billion Anti-Weaponization Fund." We take a look past the patriotic branding to reveal why this massive proposal has absolutely no legal safeguards. We break down the glaring conflict of interest at the center of the fund, including a quiet provision drafted by Trump's personal attorney and acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, that effectively excuses Trump and his family businesses from federal tax investigations. We look at the actual numbers, including the family’s massive, active trading in stocks and cryptocurrency and ask a question that should bother voters on both sides of the aisle: where is the accountability? We also get into a broader, heavy reality that goes way beyond the headlines: political exhaustion. We look at how low primary voter turnouts allow extreme voices to take control, and how the media keeps us distracted with petty arguments while regular people face massive global and economic whiplash from skyrocketed grocery bills to merchant marine sailors stranded without power in a war zone. Finally, we talk about escaping the constant tribalism, breaking out of the "bubble of shame," and what it actually takes to start talking to each other like grown-ups again. Questions Covered in This Episode: What is the $1.776 Billion Anti-Weaponization Fund?Why did Donald Trump drop his IRS lawsuit?What does Todd Blanche's tax letter mean for the Trump family businesses?Why are GOP Senators pushing back on Trump's new settlement announcement?How does low primary voter turnout impact local elections? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 - Introduction 00:39 - The $1.776 Billion Anti-Weaponization Fund explained 03:14 - Settling a $10B lawsuit: Typical Trump negotiations? 04:27 - 3,700 stocks, crypto millions, and the family tax exemption 05:15 - Todd Blanche and the total lack of independent accountability 05:40 - Nicole's theory: Is this a private army fund? 07:03 - GOP Senators say no mas: Ted Cruz’s podcast leak 08:13 - The 8% voter turnout reality in local primaries 11:35 - Legal perspective and dropping cases he can't win 14:00 - Decompiling immigration bills: Senate Republicans are furious 17:00 - Global whiplash: Iran war, high gas prices, and stranded sailors 18:39 - Are people just completely fed up with Trump? 21:37 - Why Democrats and Gen Z are also losing trust in government 24:02 - Fighting fire with fire: Nicole’s frustration with the Democrats 25:07 - Popping the "bubble of shame" and looking at Texas politics 26:24 - The State Fair turkey leg: Dissecting dumb political distraction tactics 29:26 - Would You Rather Join the Conversation: Are you feeling the same political exhaustion and whiplash from modern news cycles? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below and remember to pause and connect with the human on the other side of the screen. RESOURCES MENTIONED: Ted Cruz Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chaos-in-dc-on-reconciliation-doj-judgment-fund-plus/id1495601614?i=1000769050505 https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/29/us/politics/federal-judge-trump-fund.html?unlocked_article_code=1.mlA.Nhlk.t-wPONIlelQi&smid=url-share https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-republican-congress-control-98a13bd9?mod=article_inline Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    38 min
  7. “Bashing Trump” vs “Sanewashing Trump”: An Interview with Issac Saul of Tangle News

    May 27

    “Bashing Trump” vs “Sanewashing Trump”: An Interview with Issac Saul of Tangle News

    What happens when you try to tell the truth in a world that only wants team loyalty? In this episode, we talk with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle, the independent, non-partisan politics newsletter that summarises the best arguments from the left and the right. Isaac wrote a “plea for help” email after conservatives accused Tangle of bashing Trump while liberals accused it of sanewashing Trump, often in response to the exact same newsletter. We take a look at why the current political division feels different now, and how the media ecosystem rewards outrage, certainty, and tribalism. Isaac breaks down why “picking a side” is often the most profitable model in modern media, and what it costs the rest of us, our relationships, our mental health, and our ability to talk to family and friends who disagree with us. We also get into something surprisingly powerful: language. Isaac explains how tiny word choices can trigger instant assumptions of political bias, and how Tangle created its own editorial standards to keep readers from rage-quitting before they even reach the arguments. Finally, we talk about whether we’ve hit “peak indecency,” and what might actually bring a decency comeback in politics and culture. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:21 Meet Isaac Saul (Tangle News Founder) 02:15 Why Political Polarisation Feels Worse Right Now 05:21 Media Incentives: Why Outrage and “Pick a Side” Content Wins 07:09 Toxic Comment Sections and Cancel Culture 12:24 Did COVID Accelerate Division? Doomscrolling, Isolation, and Social Media 19:16 Neutral Language in Journalism: Tangle’s Editorial Standards Explained 22:39 Why Polls Skew Left: Conservatives Less Likely to Answer Surveys 24:02 NPR / Public Radio Surge 26:54 Writing With Integrity: Staying Honest Without Feeding Tribalism 30:57 AI, Misinformation, and the Hope for a “Decency Comeback” in Politics 36:02 Would You Rather RESOURCES MENTIONED: This American Life Tangle Episode: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/845/a-small-thing?ref=readtangle.com Issac Saul with David French: https://youtu.be/fxAKXuvMXcw?si=FpOYfAVa2IdIMkaA Issac Saul TED Talk: https://youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=-wUgGLuSZ1LK5ygI GOOD FOR THE SOUL: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45031831-one-long-river-of-song Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    43 min
  8. How Postpartum Medicaid Went From 60 Days to a Year in Wisconsin

    May 20

    How Postpartum Medicaid Went From 60 Days to a Year in Wisconsin

    Fourteen Wisconsinites from opposite sides of the abortion debate sat down together for a three-day Builders Movement Citizen Solutions session on abortion and family wellbeing. This wasn’t a panel or a debate for show. It was a practical, structured process with trained facilitators and a clear framework, designed to help people hear each other properly and figure out what could actually change in real life, not just online. What they landed on was surprisingly concrete: extending Medicaid postpartum coverage in Wisconsin from 60 days to a full year. In March 2026, the policy passed almost unanimously, and Governor Tony Evers signed it into law. This means more moms getting treatment for postpartum depression, more women getting care when something goes wrong after birth, and more families supported during the months when everything is raw, expensive, and exhausting. But the story behind that win is not tidy. One participant, Ali (a progressive Democrat and elected official in Madison), admitted she walked in suspicious, worried it would be conflict-as-entertainment. Kai, an independent who describes herself as a “world citizen,” trusted the referral and believed the process could work. Kateri, a Catholic who prefers “consistent life ethic,” feared being flattened into a stereotype, and she didn’t sugar-coat how hard it was to feel understood in a room full of strangers on a topic this loaded. This is the part we don’t talk about enough: real dialogue is uncomfortable, and “common ground” doesn’t magically appear because everyone’s being polite. It takes time, relationship, and a willingness to stay in the room when it gets tense. Still, this group proved something important, that even when people can’t agree on everything, they can sometimes agree on what families need, and push through the politics to get a real policy solution across the line. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:31 Builders Movement Intro 01:30 Meet The Participants 03:52 Ali Joins With Skepticism 05:47 Kai On Trust And Dialogue 07:21 Three Day Solution Session 11:12 Trauma And Finding Empathy 13:58 Relationship Building Debate 24:37 Men In The Room 25:59 Choosing Medicaid Extension 27:22 Wraparound Support Systems 30:12 Partisan Pushback and Perseverance 33:25 Backlash and Unfinished Work 36:08 Good for the Soul Picks RESOURCES MENTIONED: Builders Movement: https://buildersmovement.org/ Citizen Solutions Wisconsin: http://citizensolutions.us/citizensolutions/wi GOOD FOR THE SOUL: Ali’s: My Friends by Friedrich Bachman https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/217163697-my-friends Kateri’s - East of Eden by John Steinbeck https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4406.East_of_Eden Kai’s - Hammersmith Odeon Concerts https://www.concertarchives.org/venues/hammersmith-odeon Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    46 min
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Trailer

4.8
out of 5
26 Ratings

About

Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it! We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go about your day.

Information

  • Creator
    Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    75
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • Show Website
    We've Got To Talk

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