We've Got To Talk

Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • 4.8 (25)
  • PERSONAL JOURNALS
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it! We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go about your day.

  1. Iran Conflict: What Happens When "You Break It, You Buy It" Applies to War?

    3D AGO

    Iran Conflict: What Happens When "You Break It, You Buy It" Applies to War?

    Iran is one of the most loaded topics on the planet right now, and in this episode, Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative) try to talk about it without pretending it’s simple. We recorded on Thursday, March 5th, fully aware that modern conflict moves fast and anything we say could age in a week. So this isn’t a “perfect take.” It’s us slowing the conversation down and naming what we know, what we don’t, and what we’re tempted to assume. Jolene opens with three hot takes, starting with the language. Five days in, she hesitates to call it a “war” and frames it as a conflict, not to minimise it, but because words shape expectations. “War” implies a timeline, a scale, and a level of commitment Americans are deeply wary of after Iraq and Afghanistan. She also wrestles with the tension between short-term necessity and long-term fallout, including what it signals to allies and adversaries if the U.S. hesitates, and what it costs if the U.S. gets pulled into something with no clear end. Nicole also gets stuck on the war versus conflict question, because labels shape what people tolerate and demand. We talk about the strategic side too, including the role of allies, technology, and how modern warfare has shifted toward precision, drones, cyber, intelligence, and targeted strikes. But underneath all of it is the question that never goes away: what is the plan? “Winning” is not clean, and moral certainty can become a shortcut that avoids the hard questions while real people pay the price. We also centre the part that can’t be treated like a chessboard: the Iranian people. We talk about the human cost already paid by protestors and ordinary citizens under an oppressive regime, and the uncomfortable questions about intervention, democracy, and what happens after a regime is weakened. Finally, we dig into the media layer and why “stay curious” matters more than ever. What are you watching? What are you worried about? What do you think the U.S. responsibility is here, if any? Drop your thoughts in the comments and keep it respectful. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Welcome 00:25 Iran Conflict 01:10 Jolene Three Hot Takes 03:31 Allies And Drones 04:16 No Long Term Plan 05:16 Human Cost And Protest 07:09 How We Got Here 10:25 Be Curious Learn History 12:38 Kurds And Civil War Risk 14:58 War Powers And Congress 18:22 Moral Cost Of Strikes 21:10 What Happens After 23:35 Succession and Assassination 23:54 Intel Infiltration Strategy 25:40 Iran Threats and Trump 26:27 Israel Discourse and Antisemitism 27:15 Hamas and Campus Protests 29:15 Iran Voices on Instagram 31:05 Media Fear and Polling 33:38 Who Builds a New Middle East 35:48 Would You Rather War Outcomes 37:50 Noem Jet and Lewandowski 41:36 Podcast Wrap RESOURCES MENTIONED: Instagram: @hemdad.nazari https://youtu.be/e9dljIL4rBk?si=q0Jjj5oN2uDcJPPg LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    44 min
  2. The Death of Political Decorum: Pam Bondi, JD Vance, and Why We're All Exhausted

    MAR 4

    The Death of Political Decorum: Pam Bondi, JD Vance, and Why We're All Exhausted

    Politics lately feels less like governing and more like bad behavior. In this episode, we ask a simple question: where did basic political decorum go, and why does it feel like the whole country is running on outrage and adrenaline? We talk about congressional hearings that feel more like theatre than truth-seeking, including the Pam Bondi exchange during the Epstein hearings. Tough questions are part of the job, but the posturing, rehearsed lines, and made-for-camera moments leave us wondering who the real audience is. When oversight becomes performance, it doesn’t just waste time. It teaches the public that politics is about winning the clip, not solving problems. We also unpack how modern media and social platforms amplify the worst incentives. Sensational headlines, rage-bait framing, and constant “gotcha” coverage keep everyone stressed, divided, and exhausted. We ask whether changes like removing cameras from hearings or tightening rules could reduce the made-for-TV drama, while still protecting transparency. Finally, we look at what “adult discourse” could sound like again, including our reaction to Marco Rubio’s Munich speech, and the bigger tension between relatability and responsibility in leadership. We also talk about the double standard women face in public life, where forcefulness is praised in men and punished in women. If you’re exhausted too, tell us in the comments. What would you reward in a leader if the algorithm wasn’t in the room? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:25 Decorum In Politics in Disappearing 02:07 Hearings As Theater 02:26 Tabloid Media Machine 06:08 Fixing The Congressional Hearing Format 07:41 Pam Bondi Performing For Trump 09:59 Rubio Munich Adult In Room 12:34 JD Vance Speech Comparison 13:17 Rubio Then And Now 14:46 What Calm Leadership Feels Like 16:10 Outrage Gets Attention 16:42 Trump Reads The Room 19:22 Authentic Not Rude 21:09 Women And Double Standards 26:13 Rage Bait And Civility 26:59 Modeling Respectful Debate 28:16 Would You Rather Segment 30:56 Closing Thoughts RESOURCES MENTIONED: https://www.foxnews.com/media/how-pam-bondi-democrats-turned-hearing-hysteria-right-front-jeffrey-epsteins-victims LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    32 min
  3. Bridge Grades: The ‘Rotten Tomatoes’ Scorecard for Congress

    FEB 25

    Bridge Grades: The ‘Rotten Tomatoes’ Scorecard for Congress

    We’re sitting down with Brad Porteus, the creator of Bridge Grades, to talk about the one thing American politics is starving for right now: real collaboration. If you are exhausted by tribal “pick a side” thinking, this conversation is a breath of fresh air, because it is not about who is right. It is about who can actually work with people they disagree with. Brad explains what Bridge Grades is and why he built it. Think of it as a report card for Congress, or like Rotten Tomatoes for politicians. Using objective third-party data, Bridge Grades scores members of Congress from 0 to 100 based on how collaboratively or divisively they govern. The big idea is simple but powerful: ideology and collaboration are independent variables. You can be conservative and still be a bridge-builder. You can be progressive and still be a divider. We also get into the uncomfortable part. Are citizens rewarding the behaviour they claim they want? Brad talks about how American politics has become identity warfare, and how incentives now favour viral moments, party loyalty, and public dunking over the slow, unglamorous work of governing. If you are looking for a better way to evaluate politicians beyond red vs blue, this episode will give you a new lens. Check out Bridge Grades here: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ and tell us what you think. Who are the real bridgers in Congress, and what would it take for voters to start rewarding collaboration at the ballot box? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 01:08 Explaining Bridge Grades 02:44 Brad's Background and Inspiration 06:09 Challenges in Political Engagement 08:46 The Role of Media and Algorithms 19:21 Grading System and Data Sources of Bridge Grades 26:12 Encouraging Bipartisanship 32:09 Exploring Alternatives to the Two-Party System 32:52 The Dream of Normalizing Bridging Politics 33:27 Challenges in Changing Voting Behavior 34:03 The Role of Bridge Grades in Political Campaigns 34:35 Reinviting Disengaged Voters 36:23 The Two-Punch Strategy for Political Change 37:32 Building a Public Utility for Political Transparency 38:16 The Builders Movement and Bridging Efforts 39:00 Evaluating Politicians' Actions and Rhetoric 41:27 Encouraging Bipartisanship in Congress 47:25 Hope for a Collaborative Future in Politics 49:52 Good for the Soul: Live Music and Gen X Memoirs 51:58 Would You Rather RESOURCES MENTIONED: Bridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ Good For The Soul: Remember to go and see live music! https://book-shelfie.com/roll-with-it/ https://liberationbway.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    59 min
  4. The Last Republican Documentary: Our Review

    FEB 18

    The Last Republican Documentary: Our Review

    We just watched “The Last Republican,” Steve Pink’s new documentary about Adam Kinzinger - the Illinois Congressman who broke ranks with his party after the January 6th hearings, and let’s just say, it sparked a conversation. Actually, several. We’re Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative), friends for nearly 40 years and living proof that you can tackle politics, religion, and money without ending up in a shouting match. In this episode, we give you our take on the film, the politics, and the very human messiness at the heart of it all. Despite our different political leanings, we came away agreeing on something important: accountability matters, and so does honest conversation about our history. No matter how uncomfortable it is. If we want a better future, we have to be willing to look back, learn, and talk it out, even when it’s messy. “The Last Republican” isn’t just a documentary about one man or one party, it’s a mirror held up to the state of American politics and an invitation to have the kinds of conversations most people avoid. We hope you’ll watch it, and then talk about it with people who agree with you, and especially with those who don’t. That’s where real understanding starts. RESOURCES MENTIONED: The Last Republican Buy Or Rent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksFrcUdEa9A Good For the Soul: Instagram: @vhsdates @top.music.songs www.bridgegrades.org LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    50 min
  5. Trump One Year Later: Reaction to Ezra Klein & Yuval Levin Conversation

    FEB 11

    Trump One Year Later: Reaction to Ezra Klein & Yuval Levin Conversation

    We’re sharing our take on Ezra Klein’s interview with Yuval Levin and the question it raises about Trump’s presidency: has he achieved as much as it feels like he has, or are we confusing constant motion with durable progress? We talk about why this administration can feel like nonstop action, even when much of that action is not coming through Congress. A big idea from the Ezra Klein Show conversation is Levin’s framing that Trump governs “retail rather than wholesale.” In other words, prioritizing visible, immediate wins through executive power, pressure, and deal-making, instead of building long-lasting policy through legislation. We unpack why that approach appeals to many voters who wanted a non-politician who would bypass gridlock, and why it also raises concerns about stability when executive orders can be reversed by the next administration. We also dig into the political reality that Trump’s brand can make bipartisan cooperation in Congress even harder, pushing everyone toward obstruction and performance, and pushing the White House toward even more executive action. The bigger question we leave you with is simple: is Trump adapting to a broken legislative branch, or is this style of leadership making it harder for Congress to function at all? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:45 Discussing Listener's Suggestion: Ezra Klein and Yuval Levin 01:58 Trump's First Year: Accomplishments and Controversies 04:00 Debating Congressional vs. Executive Power 05:57 Trump's Approach to Governance 07:59 Media Perception and Legal Battles 18:24 Young Conservatives and Political Extremism 20:51 US Dependency and Federal Funding 22:56 Trump as a Disruptor 23:25 Checks and Balances Concerns 25:58 Media Manipulation and Public Perception 27:01 Trump's Spending and Defense Policies 29:07 Hopes for Congressional Bravery 30:07 America's 250th Birthday 33:28 Good for the Soul: Snowfall and Peace 35:24 TV Show Recommendation: The West Wing 38:31 Would You Rather RESOURCES MENTIONED: Ezra Klein and Yuval Levin Interview: https://youtu.be/WJHPaCaMAq4?si=9jnNnea6mPoGj0hf Senate website/Presidential Nominations Withdrawn: https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/one_item_and_teasers/nom_wdr.htm LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    41 min
  6. ICE Shooting in Minneapolis: Facts, Fear, and What We Owe Each Other

    FEB 4

    ICE Shooting in Minneapolis: Facts, Fear, and What We Owe Each Other

    Some weeks, the news doesn’t just feel heavy, it feels combustible. In this episode, Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative) talk through the latest ICE shooting in Minneapolis and why stories like this instantly become a loyalty test: pick your team, pick your narrative, pick your villain… and move on. We slow the conversation down on purpose. We talk about what we know, what we don’t know yet, and how quickly public reactions harden into certainty before investigations have a chance to breathe. Because once a tragedy becomes a symbol, people stop caring about details. They care about the win. We also unpack the deeper reality beneath the headlines: immigration is debated as a concept, but lived as a constant stress response. Paperwork, deadlines, fear, and the feeling that one wrong turn could unravel a life. At the same time, communities are trying to make sense of real safety concerns without turning those fears into blanket suspicion of anyone who looks or sounds “foreign.” This isn’t about choosing between compassion and accountability. It’s about holding both and refusing to let grief, anger, or fear turn into dehumanisation. If the country feels brittle right now, it’s because we’ve stopped talking like humans. Where do we go from here? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:30 Discussing Minneapolis ICE Shooting 00:47 Moral Certainty and Conversation 03:02 Details of the Minneapolis Shooting 04:30 Reactions and Political Commentary 05:17 Tom Holman's Press Conference 07:51 Complexities of Immigration Enforcement 27:33 Sanctuary Cities and Legal Implications 35:07 Sanctuary Cities and Trump's Immigration Policy 35:44 Criminal Records Among Undocumented Migrants 36:40 Concerns About Steven Miller's Influence 40:33 Polarization and Lack of Dialogue 45:43 The Immigrant Experience 56:15 Moral Absolutism and Democracy 01:04:29 Concluding Thoughts RESOURCES MENTIONED: Tom Homan News Conference, https://www.youtube.com/live/f0uZKCwGwtA?si=1GT03P1elneERpOL Good for the Soul: https://www.instagram.com/basicoptimism/reels/ https://tapcancerout.org/

    1h 6m
  7. Is America buying Greenland or not?

    JAN 28

    Is America buying Greenland or not?

    Some headlines don’t feel real and yet here we are. In this episode, we unpack Trump floating the idea of America buying Greenland (yes, Greenland) and why a story that sounds like satire is actually tied to serious geopolitics, Arctic security, and America’s relationship with allies like Denmark. We take a look at why Greenland matters: its strategic location between North America and Europe, growing importance in the Arctic, and the military and economic interests that come with it. Even if the delivery sounds unserious, the underlying interest isn’t automatically crazy and that’s what makes this headline worth talking about. But we also talk about how leadership shows up on the world stage. Trump’s off-the-cuff style and public pressure tactics can turn diplomacy into a spectacle, and diplomacy doesn’t work when allies feel humiliated or treated like they’re negotiating a property sale. The result isn’t just awkward headlines, it’s distrust. And honestly, this isn’t only about Greenland. It’s about political fatigue: the constant “wait, is this real?” whiplash and what it does to public trust. Is strong leadership boldness, restraint, diplomacy, transparency, or some mix of all four? Drop your thoughts in the comments (keep it respectful). CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:32 Discussing Greenland 02:02 Trump's Controversial Actions 05:33 Global Reactions and Media Frenzy 06:54 Strategic Importance of Greenland 07:49 Rare Earth Minerals and Geopolitical Moves 08:40 Trump's Negotiation Tactics 13:26 Debating US Foreign Policy 25:41 Historical Context and World Order 27:59 European Union's Reaction to Trump's Greenland Comments 28:26 Global Reactions and Military Posturing 29:28 Embarrassment on the World Stage 29:53 The Future of Diplomacy 30:22 The Role of Media and Public Perception 30:30 Standing Up to Bullies 32:16 Greenland's Importance and Reactions 34:34 Media Coverage and Public Fatigue 44:58 Final Thoughts RESOURCES MENTIONED: AP News (Greenland, U.S., Denmark, Trump, Vance, Rubio meeting): https://apnews.com/article/greenland-united-states-denmark-trump-vance-rubio-meeting-b10f5151008f1f18a788dc0751473c0e Good for the SoulMatter Neuroscience (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/matterneuroscience/“The Emperor’s New Clothes” (Hans Christian Andersen): https://americanliterature.com/author/hans-christian-andersen/short-story/the-emperors-new-clothes LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    47 min
  8. U.S. Surrogacy and Birthright Citizenship: When Money Writes the Rules

    JAN 21

    U.S. Surrogacy and Birthright Citizenship: When Money Writes the Rules

    Surrogacy can be a deeply meaningful path to parenthood and it can also be a billion-dollar industry. In this episode, we unpack what happens when “building a family” starts looking like a marketplace, and who actually gets protected when money, contracts, and power enter something as serious as pregnancy and birth. We talk about why the U.S. has become a major global destination for surrogacy, and how inconsistent, state-by-state rules can create a system where the wealthy get options and the vulnerable take on the risk. When an industry grows faster than the guardrails, it’s not just messy, it can become exploitative. We also dig into the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship, and the uncomfortable question it raises: what happens when a right designed to protect the vulnerable becomes a tool the powerful can leverage? This isn’t about demonising parents or children - it’s about whether citizenship and reproduction are being treated like commodities. Finally, we ask what regulation could look like without being “anti-family”: stronger protections for surrogates, clearer standards that prioritise the well-being of the child, and real accountability when things go wrong. If you’re pro-surrogacy, anti-surrogacy, or somewhere in the middle, we hope this episode helps you ask better questions and keeps the conversation honest. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:29 Billionaires and US Surrogacy 00:49 The MO News Podcast and Initial Reactions 02:47 Understanding the 14th Amendment and Birthright Citizenship 04:40 The Surrogacy Industry: Agencies and Regulations 05:20 International Billionaires and Surrogacy 06:40 Ethical and Social Implications 08:17 Legal and Regulatory Challenges 10:16 Personal Stories and Opinions 11:34 The Role of Money and Power 12:59 Conservative and Liberal Perspectives 21:36 Potential Solutions and Legislation 26:07 Peter Thiel's IVF Agencies in Southeast Asia 26:24 Religious Views and Surrogacy Ethics 27:20 Surrogacy Laws and the 14th Amendment 28:11 Protecting Surrogates and Babies 30:47 Bipartisan Efforts for Surrogacy Regulation 33:52 Global Surrogacy Practices and US Regulations 36:47 The Future of Surrogacy and Legal Recourse 41:22 Call to Action: Advocating for Surrogacy Laws 45:10 Good for the Soul: Kindness Army 46:31 Would You Rather: Surrogacy and Citizenship RESOURCES MENTIONED: Instagram Reel: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DSWnB_xjRZc/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet Chinese Billionaires, Surrogacy, Pregnancy: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/chinese-billionaires-surrogacy-pregnancy-7fdfc0c3?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalinkWhat to Know: Surrogacy + China + Billionaires: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/what-to-know-surrogacy-china-billionaires-3734339e?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalinkSurrogacy Unregulated: Debts + Profits: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/surrogacy-unregulated-debts-profits-b9fdd987?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalinkFortune (Xu Bo + children + video game empire): https://fortune.com/2025/12/25/xu-bo-children-video-game-empire-guangzhou-duoyi-network/WSJ (Pavel Durov + children + fertility/sperm donation): https://www.wsj.com/world/pavel-durov-children-fertility-sperm-donation-3d6d5231?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink Good for the SoulItsSozer (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/itssozer/?hl=en LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    52 min
See All (58)

Trailer

4.8
out of 5
25 Ratings

About

Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it! We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go about your day.

Information

  • Creator
    Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    58
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • Show Website
    We've Got To Talk

You Might Also Like