We've Got To Talk

Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • 4.8 (26)
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Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it! We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go about your day.

  1. This NYC Protest Shocked Us: “Death to America” and What It Means

    2D AGO

    This NYC Protest Shocked Us: “Death to America” and What It Means

    We’re taking on one of the hardest questions in public life right now: where is the line between free speech, hate speech, and political extremism? What started as a reaction to protest footage from Washington Square Park turned into a much bigger conversation about modern activism, public outrage, and the way protest movements can shift from justice and grief into something more tribal, performative, and deeply unsettling. We talk about how quickly fear and ignorance can turn into hatred, and how anti-Semitism, anti-Muslim sentiment, and political dehumanization keep gaining ground when people stop seeing each other as human beings. This episode looks at the emotional climate behind extremism, the danger of treating entire groups as symbols, and why hate grows so easily in environments driven by anger, misinformation, and identity politics. It is not just about what people are saying at protests. It is about what happens when outrage becomes a culture. We also explore the conservative and liberal views of protest culture in America. Jolene shares why many conservatives see large-scale street protest as more closely tied to the political left, while I (Nicole) reflect on how the internet, media amplification, and organised messaging have changed the nature of activism altogether. We get into political funding, online radicalization, protest movements, groupthink, and the way social media can turn legitimate causes into ideological theatre almost overnight. At the center of this episode is a deeper concern about free speech in America and whether public debate is still possible when every disagreement feels morally loaded. We do not pretend to have neat answers, but we do ask the questions that matter: when does protest stop helping, when does rhetoric become dangerous, and how do we push back against extremism without losing the values that make open societies worth protecting? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:25 Political Extremism, Protests, and Free Speech in America 00:49 Washington Square Park Protest Reaction 02:03 Hate Speech, Extremism, and Public Outrage 04:56 How Protest Movements Gain Power and Momentum 10:30 Who Funds Activism and Political Protest Movements 13:30 Hate Speech vs Free Speech: Where Is the Line? 17:10 Do Protests Actually Change Anything? 20:34 Dark Money, Political Funding, and Protest Strategy 22:56 How Republicans Mobilise Without Protest Culture 23:22 Protest as Community, Belonging, and Identity 23:53 The Money Behind Activism and Organised Movements 25:57 Trad Wife Media, Online Messaging, and Cultural Influence 28:47 Confusion, Radicalisation, and How People Get Pulled In 33:18 Dehumanisation, Hate, and the Rise of Extremism 35:09 Podcast Recommendation and 544 Days of Perspective 37:26 The Personal Toll of Political Division 38:41 Would You Rather: Free Speech, Hate, and Moral Trade-Offs 41:07 Final Thoughts on Protest Culture, Extremism, and Free Speech RESOURCES MENTIONED: Washington Square Park Protest: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DV5CHOADH2J/?igsh=YXhiMjJ0bHVuYmhl Mo News - Americans Morally Bad: https://www.instagram.com/p/DWCnC0wicdw/ Nate Friedman Show: https://www.instagram.com/p/DVxOUD_jJbj/ 544 Days Podcast: https://crooked.com/podcast-series/544-days/ Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/, How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    39 min
  2. Australia’s Under-16 Social Media Ban vs. US Bell-to-Bell Phone Bans in Schools

    APR 1

    Australia’s Under-16 Social Media Ban vs. US Bell-to-Bell Phone Bans in Schools

    Two big stories have been sitting with us. Australia moving to ban social media for kids under 16, and U.S. schools rolling out “bell to bell” phone bans. Australia’s move is bold, and we don’t think anyone believes it will be perfect. Enforcement will be messy, there will be loopholes, and kids will try to get around it. But we still respect the statement it makes. It forces the conversation into the open and signals that constant, unsupervised access to algorithm-driven platforms is not a harmless childhood right. It is a risk, and adults need to stop pretending otherwise. Then there’s the U.S. “bell to bell” ban conversation, and it feels like another version of the same awakening. Not “put it on silent” or “keep it in your bag,” but actual phone-free school days. The point isn’t that adults hate technology. It’s that teachers are watching attention, learning, and social skills take a hit in real time. And when phones are removed from the classroom equation, something simple but powerful happens. Kids talk, play, make eye contact, and teachers report fewer distractions and more present students. In this episode, Jolene and I also talk about what these bans can and cannot do. A school ban can change the day, but kids still go home to devices. A social media ban can shift norms, but it won’t teach digital judgement on its own. That’s why we keep coming back to the bigger question: what does a healthier relationship with tech actually look like, and how do we build it on purpose? We would love to hear your take in the comments. Do you think Australia’s under-16 social media ban will help, or backfire? And should more U.S. schools go “bell to bell”? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Intro 02:02 Australia ban: covered platforms and expectation of glitches/workarounds 03:38 Early workaround example and Meta removing underage accounts in Australia 04:12 Online Safety Act timeline; no accounts under 16; can still browse without accounts 05:22 Rationale: limiting algorithm-driven targeting and mental health harms 07:10 Verification and enforcement: “reasonable steps,” accountability, and potential $30M fines 10:16 Shift to US: 35 states + DC adopting bell-to-bell school phone bans 12:02 Bipartisan dynamics, safety/shooting concerns, and workarounds 15:25 Alternatives: flip phones, pagers/payphones; key stats on depression/sleep and public support 17:52 Tech leaders restricting their own kids’ phone/social media use 23:00 Broader reflection: problem-solving skills and attention in an always-online world 26:20 Parenting boundaries: phones in rooms, supervised computer use, and saying no 28:24 Nuance on school bans: concern about teaching responsible use vs. total prohibition 30:13 Proposal: “digital citizenship” education alongside restrictions 31:27 Discipline burden on teachers; varied state/school rules; request for educator feedback 34:14 Surgeon General warning-label idea; debate over shame vs. action; multi-pronged solutions 36:12 Safety concerns: predators and kids’ platforms like Roblox 37:19 Social media design as addiction 40:22 Modeling behavior: adults on phones and kids seeking attention 42:04 Partisanship hypothetical: potential backlash if Trump pushed a phone-ban policy 44:07 Closing takeaways: learn from Australia 47:10 Would-you-rather questions; choosing YouTube as the one app RESOURCES MENTIONED: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-04/when-is-the-teen-social-media-ban-what-apps-are-banned/106086152 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-11-19/roblox-brings-in-age-checks-ahead-of-australian-ban/106025742 https://ministers.education.gov.au/clare/school-behaviour-improving-after-mobile-phone-ban-and-vaping-reforms Good for the Soul: https://www.instagram.com/weatheradam/?hl=en LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    41 min
  3. The Epstein Files and the elite with no accountability

    MAR 25

    The Epstein Files and the elite with no accountability

    The Epstein files are not just a scandal or a “true crime” story. They are a mirror held up to power, privilege, and the way exploitation can hide in plain sight when the right people are involved. We take a look at why this story is bigger than Jeffrey Epstein as an individual. The most disturbing part is not only what he did, but how long he operated, how many doors opened for him, and how an entire ecosystem of access, money, and silence helped protect him. This is where the conversation turns into something deeper about class, credibility, and why the hyper-elite often seem to live by different rules than everyone else. We also talk about the darker details that keep resurfacing, including the New Mexico “Zorro Ranch,” the eugenics angle, and the broader network of enablers that made Epstein’s world possible. And we ask the question that hangs over all of it. Will we ever know the full truth, the kind that maps the networks clearly and holds people accountable, not just the version that gets turned into gossip and outrage? Most importantly, we refuse to let this become a partisan weapon. This is not a left issue or a right issue. It is a human issue about whether justice is selective, whether accountability is optional for the wealthy and connected, and whether victims are treated as disposable. We want to hear your thoughts. What should accountability look like here, and do you believe we will ever get the full truth? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Welcome 00:23 Epstein Files Intro 00:52 Three Hot Takes on Epstein Files 04:51 Bipartisan Outrage 07:21 How He Got Away 08:58 Epstein Origin Story 09:51 Wexner And Teen Culture 14:25 Elite Money Blindness 17:07 Plea Deal And Death 19:04 New Mexico Eugenics 20:02 Why No One Talks 21:59 Philanthropy And Complicity 23:15 Bill Gates Example 24:29 Power Sex And Access 25:08 Peter Attia Email Scandal 26:34 Power Over Sex 27:39 Hypersexualization Debate 29:56 Epstein Files Politics 35:32 Evidence And Accountability 38:11 Would You Rather 40:52 Final Thanks RESOURCES MENTIONED: The Epstein Files (Politics, subpoenas, and the current fallout)NYT (Feb 12, 2026): Epstein files overview / political anglehttps://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/12/us/politics/epstein-files.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.Ks_d.pTEwL-KfzLEH&smid=url-shareNYT (Mar 4, 2026): Pam Bondi subpoena related to the Epstein fileshttps://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/04/us/politics/pam-bondi-subpoena-epstein-files.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.ev5r.I-KWB7-Gs8oP&smid=url-share New Mexico / Zorro Ranch (location + operations)NYT (Mar 1, 2026): Epstein’s New Mexico “Zorro Ranch”https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/01/us/jeffrey-epstein-new-mexico-zorro-ranch.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.taQs.mfGbZ_Gv_DZe&smid=url-share Medical network / enablers (doctors)NYT (Feb 28, 2026): Epstein and doctorshttps://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/28/us/jeffrey-epstein-doctors.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.DT50.a3Mt3jihkdRH&smid=url-share Eugenics angle (historical reporting)NYT (Jul 31, 2019): Epstein and eugenicshttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/31/business/jeffrey-epstein-eugenics.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.kPt3.sqD4Xrz4SYqG&smid=url-share LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    41 min
  4. Trump’s SAVE Act Explained: Election Integrity or Voter Suppression

    MAR 18

    Trump’s SAVE Act Explained: Election Integrity or Voter Suppression

    Trump’s SAVE Act is being sold as a straightforward push for election integrity, but in this episode, we take a look at why it is not nearly that simple. On the surface, secure elections sound like an easy thing to support. But once you get into the details, the conversation becomes much more complicated. Is this really about protecting the vote, or is it about raising suspicion and adding new barriers just before the midterms? Nicole shares why her instinct is that the SAVE Act feels like a pre-midterm power move wrapped in the language of fairness. Jolene sees the appeal of a more standardized voting system, and both agree that public trust in elections matters. They also agree that handing too much control to the federal government comes with real risks, especially when centralised voter systems can create new vulnerabilities and new opportunities for overreach. The episode also digs into the practical impact of laws like this. What happens to people in rural areas, people without easy access to updated documents, women whose names do not match old paperwork, or communities that already face barriers to voting? Nicole argues that access is part of election integrity too, and that a system is not truly secure if it quietly pushes legitimate voters out of the process. At the heart of the conversation is a bigger question about democracy itself. If the goal is a better voting system, why are reforms so often introduced in the most politically explosive way possible? Why not build trust slowly, with time, support, and real buy-in from both sides? Nicole and Jolene ask what meaningful voter reform should actually look like, and how we protect both security and access without turning every election conversation into a loyalty test. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Welcome 00:26 What Is the SAVE Act 00:58 Liberal Hot Takes 03:47 Conservative Breakdown 05:18 ID Requirements Debate 07:20 Real ID Rollout Idea 14:21 How Registration Would Work 17:21 Immigration Fraud Claims 21:20 Bipartisanship and Funding 25:09 Midterms and Loopholes 26:54 Voter Rolls and Turnout 29:32 Bipartisan Wins Ignored 30:47 Name Changes and IDs 32:50 Registration Versus Voting 35:46 Politics and Fraud Claims RESOURCES MENTIONED: https://campaignlegal.org/update/what-you-need-know-about-save-act LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    44 min
  5. Iran Conflict: What Happens When "You Break It, You Buy It" Applies to War?

    MAR 11

    Iran Conflict: What Happens When "You Break It, You Buy It" Applies to War?

    Iran is one of the most loaded topics on the planet right now, and in this episode, Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative) try to talk about it without pretending it’s simple. We recorded on Thursday, March 5th, fully aware that modern conflict moves fast and anything we say could age in a week. So this isn’t a “perfect take.” It’s us slowing the conversation down and naming what we know, what we don’t, and what we’re tempted to assume. Jolene opens with three hot takes, starting with the language. Five days in, she hesitates to call it a “war” and frames it as a conflict, not to minimise it, but because words shape expectations. “War” implies a timeline, a scale, and a level of commitment Americans are deeply wary of after Iraq and Afghanistan. She also wrestles with the tension between short-term necessity and long-term fallout, including what it signals to allies and adversaries if the U.S. hesitates, and what it costs if the U.S. gets pulled into something with no clear end. Nicole also gets stuck on the war versus conflict question, because labels shape what people tolerate and demand. We talk about the strategic side too, including the role of allies, technology, and how modern warfare has shifted toward precision, drones, cyber, intelligence, and targeted strikes. But underneath all of it is the question that never goes away: what is the plan? “Winning” is not clean, and moral certainty can become a shortcut that avoids the hard questions while real people pay the price. We also centre the part that can’t be treated like a chessboard: the Iranian people. We talk about the human cost already paid by protestors and ordinary citizens under an oppressive regime, and the uncomfortable questions about intervention, democracy, and what happens after a regime is weakened. Finally, we dig into the media layer and why “stay curious” matters more than ever. What are you watching? What are you worried about? What do you think the U.S. responsibility is here, if any? Drop your thoughts in the comments and keep it respectful. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Welcome 00:25 Iran Conflict 01:10 Jolene Three Hot Takes 03:31 Allies And Drones 04:16 No Long Term Plan 05:16 Human Cost And Protest 07:09 How We Got Here 10:25 Be Curious Learn History 12:38 Kurds And Civil War Risk 14:58 War Powers And Congress 18:22 Moral Cost Of Strikes 21:10 What Happens After 23:35 Succession and Assassination 23:54 Intel Infiltration Strategy 25:40 Iran Threats and Trump 26:27 Israel Discourse and Antisemitism 27:15 Hamas and Campus Protests 29:15 Iran Voices on Instagram 31:05 Media Fear and Polling 33:38 Who Builds a New Middle East 35:48 Would You Rather War Outcomes 37:50 Noem Jet and Lewandowski 41:36 Podcast Wrap RESOURCES MENTIONED: Instagram: @hemdad.nazari https://youtu.be/e9dljIL4rBk?si=q0Jjj5oN2uDcJPPg LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    44 min
  6. The Death of Political Decorum: Pam Bondi, JD Vance, and Why We're All Exhausted

    MAR 4

    The Death of Political Decorum: Pam Bondi, JD Vance, and Why We're All Exhausted

    Politics lately feels less like governing and more like bad behavior. In this episode, we ask a simple question: where did basic political decorum go, and why does it feel like the whole country is running on outrage and adrenaline? We talk about congressional hearings that feel more like theatre than truth-seeking, including the Pam Bondi exchange during the Epstein hearings. Tough questions are part of the job, but the posturing, rehearsed lines, and made-for-camera moments leave us wondering who the real audience is. When oversight becomes performance, it doesn’t just waste time. It teaches the public that politics is about winning the clip, not solving problems. We also unpack how modern media and social platforms amplify the worst incentives. Sensational headlines, rage-bait framing, and constant “gotcha” coverage keep everyone stressed, divided, and exhausted. We ask whether changes like removing cameras from hearings or tightening rules could reduce the made-for-TV drama, while still protecting transparency. Finally, we look at what “adult discourse” could sound like again, including our reaction to Marco Rubio’s Munich speech, and the bigger tension between relatability and responsibility in leadership. We also talk about the double standard women face in public life, where forcefulness is praised in men and punished in women. If you’re exhausted too, tell us in the comments. What would you reward in a leader if the algorithm wasn’t in the room? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:25 Decorum In Politics in Disappearing 02:07 Hearings As Theater 02:26 Tabloid Media Machine 06:08 Fixing The Congressional Hearing Format 07:41 Pam Bondi Performing For Trump 09:59 Rubio Munich Adult In Room 12:34 JD Vance Speech Comparison 13:17 Rubio Then And Now 14:46 What Calm Leadership Feels Like 16:10 Outrage Gets Attention 16:42 Trump Reads The Room 19:22 Authentic Not Rude 21:09 Women And Double Standards 26:13 Rage Bait And Civility 26:59 Modeling Respectful Debate 28:16 Would You Rather Segment 30:56 Closing Thoughts RESOURCES MENTIONED: https://www.foxnews.com/media/how-pam-bondi-democrats-turned-hearing-hysteria-right-front-jeffrey-epsteins-victims LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    32 min
  7. Bridge Grades: The ‘Rotten Tomatoes’ Scorecard for Congress

    FEB 25

    Bridge Grades: The ‘Rotten Tomatoes’ Scorecard for Congress

    We’re sitting down with Brad Porteus, the creator of Bridge Grades, to talk about the one thing American politics is starving for right now: real collaboration. If you are exhausted by tribal “pick a side” thinking, this conversation is a breath of fresh air, because it is not about who is right. It is about who can actually work with people they disagree with. Brad explains what Bridge Grades is and why he built it. Think of it as a report card for Congress, or like Rotten Tomatoes for politicians. Using objective third-party data, Bridge Grades scores members of Congress from 0 to 100 based on how collaboratively or divisively they govern. The big idea is simple but powerful: ideology and collaboration are independent variables. You can be conservative and still be a bridge-builder. You can be progressive and still be a divider. We also get into the uncomfortable part. Are citizens rewarding the behaviour they claim they want? Brad talks about how American politics has become identity warfare, and how incentives now favour viral moments, party loyalty, and public dunking over the slow, unglamorous work of governing. If you are looking for a better way to evaluate politicians beyond red vs blue, this episode will give you a new lens. Check out Bridge Grades here: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ and tell us what you think. Who are the real bridgers in Congress, and what would it take for voters to start rewarding collaboration at the ballot box? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 01:08 Explaining Bridge Grades 02:44 Brad's Background and Inspiration 06:09 Challenges in Political Engagement 08:46 The Role of Media and Algorithms 19:21 Grading System and Data Sources of Bridge Grades 26:12 Encouraging Bipartisanship 32:09 Exploring Alternatives to the Two-Party System 32:52 The Dream of Normalizing Bridging Politics 33:27 Challenges in Changing Voting Behavior 34:03 The Role of Bridge Grades in Political Campaigns 34:35 Reinviting Disengaged Voters 36:23 The Two-Punch Strategy for Political Change 37:32 Building a Public Utility for Political Transparency 38:16 The Builders Movement and Bridging Efforts 39:00 Evaluating Politicians' Actions and Rhetoric 41:27 Encouraging Bipartisanship in Congress 47:25 Hope for a Collaborative Future in Politics 49:52 Good for the Soul: Live Music and Gen X Memoirs 51:58 Would You Rather RESOURCES MENTIONED: Bridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ Good For The Soul: Remember to go and see live music! https://book-shelfie.com/roll-with-it/ https://liberationbway.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    59 min
  8. The Last Republican Documentary: Our Review

    FEB 18

    The Last Republican Documentary: Our Review

    We just watched “The Last Republican,” Steve Pink’s new documentary about Adam Kinzinger - the Illinois Congressman who broke ranks with his party after the January 6th hearings, and let’s just say, it sparked a conversation. Actually, several. We’re Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative), friends for nearly 40 years and living proof that you can tackle politics, religion, and money without ending up in a shouting match. In this episode, we give you our take on the film, the politics, and the very human messiness at the heart of it all. Despite our different political leanings, we came away agreeing on something important: accountability matters, and so does honest conversation about our history. No matter how uncomfortable it is. If we want a better future, we have to be willing to look back, learn, and talk it out, even when it’s messy. “The Last Republican” isn’t just a documentary about one man or one party, it’s a mirror held up to the state of American politics and an invitation to have the kinds of conversations most people avoid. We hope you’ll watch it, and then talk about it with people who agree with you, and especially with those who don’t. That’s where real understanding starts. RESOURCES MENTIONED: The Last Republican Buy Or Rent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksFrcUdEa9A Good For the Soul: Instagram: @vhsdates @top.music.songs www.bridgegrades.org LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    50 min
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4.8
out of 5
26 Ratings

About

Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it! We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go about your day.

Information

  • Creator
    Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    62
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • Show Website
    We've Got To Talk

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