The World's Best Email and Retention Podcast

The DTC Podcast Network
  • 5.0 (1)
  • MARKETING
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Welcome to The World's Best Email and Retention Podcast, or as we've been calling it, TWBERP. Dive into weekly episodes designed to help new and seasoned email and retention marketers make the most out of their email program. Get educated, get inspired, and get your notebook ready because you've got some work to do. Hosted by Pilothouse's Jordan Gordon on the DTC Podcast Network.

  1. 5D AGO

    Ep 85: Touch Points Have Throughput (And You're Probably Ignoring It)

    This episode is sponsored by Klaviyo. Most ecommerce brands obsess over rates — pop-up submit rate, click-through rate, conversion rate. But rate without throughput is meaningless. In this episode, Jordan breaks down the 15 core touch points every ecommerce brand should be mapping, monitoring, and iterating on — and introduces the framework for how to actually think about them. You'll learn the difference between assets and touch points (and why it matters more now than ever), how to build your minimum viable touch point map, and what views to run through each touch point so you're never flying blind. In this episode: Assets vs. touch points — what's the difference and why it mattersThe 15 core touch points: from unaware landing pages to campaign headersWhy throughput is the metric you should be watchingHow to audit your touch points once a month without losing your mindThe pop-up math that tells you if yours is actually workingPDP real estate — what to put around that add to cart buttonBrowse abandon, cart abandon, and the pre/post cart email frameworkDrop structure — a four email set to monetize any product launch Referenced episodes: 4, 37, 46, 66, 67, 84 Episode Timestamps: 00:00 – Why throughput beats rate every time 05:18 – The 15 touch point map explained 08:13 – Touch points 1-3: Unaware, aware, and retargeting destinations 10:40 – Home fold 1 & 2: Are you sending people the right place? 14:08 – PDP: The highest value real estate on your site 19:53 – The pop-up math that tells you if yours is actually working 24:13 – Welcome, browse abandon, and the pre-cart email framework 30:25 – Campaign header/footer: The highest throughput touch point you're ignoring Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

    38 min

  2. APR 28

    Ep 84: From Lost Visitor to Loyal Buyer: How Smart Personalization Fixes the Discovery Gap (with Julia Whatley from Rebuy)

    If your store has hundreds — or thousands — of SKUs, your biggest problem isn't your product. It's discovery. Jordan sits down with Julia Whatley, Senior Partner Manager at Rebuy, to break down how smart personalization turns an overwhelming catalog into a guided buying experience. From search-driven add-to-carts to post-purchase subscription upgrades, Julia walks through the full on-site journey and how brands are using Rebuy to lift AOV, drive repeat purchases, and build more intelligent relationships with their customers. In this episode: Why mega-SKU brands have a discovery problem, not a product problemHow one brand hit a 32% AOV boost and 20% bottom-line revenue increaseThe full personalization stack — search, bundles, smart cart, post-purchase, and moreHow to combine Klaviyo segments with Rebuy for truly tailored on-site experiencesThe "complete the look" strategy and the psychology behind purchase behaviorWhat the winning brands of the next three years will have in common 00:00 – Intro & meet Julia Whatley, Senior Partner Manager at Rebuy 03:30 – The mega-SKU problem: why large catalogs create analysis paralysis 04:49 – KM Tools case study: 32% AOV boost & 20% bottom-line revenue increase 06:17 – Walking the full on-site journey: search, bundles, smart cart & more 12:49 – Bundle Builder: how 30% of Rebuy revenue flows through this one feature 25:47 – Secret weapons: Smart Links, geo-targeting & the Rebuy rules engine 30:55 – Klaviyo + Rebuy: why the integration is a need-to-have, not a nice-to-have 34:04 – The brands that will win in the next 3 years Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

    38 min

  3. APR 21

    Ep 83: 7 Fixes to Your Bottom Funnel – More Revenue from the Same Traffic

    In this episode, Jordan breaks down 7 fixes you can implement today to improve your bottom of funnel and turn existing traffic into more conversions. The throughline: you don’t need more traffic—you need to capture more of the traffic you already have. What you’ll learn: How to turn your PDP into a conversion driver (not a dead end) Why small homepage changes can drive outsized revenue The right way to structure pop-ups (including when to double or triple pop) How to fix your abandonment flows to actually convert Why most brands underutilize reactivation (and how to fix it) The strategic mistake behind most underperforming funnels (trust vs. desire) 00:00 Why BOFU is more traffic 00:41 The fastest way to drive revenue today (email + CRO) 01:50 PDP fixes: keep attention above the fold & drive scroll 04:42 Homepage tweaks that actually move revenue 07:06 Pop-ups done right (timing, double + triple pop) 11:25 Abandonment flows: what most brands are missing 12:54 Reactivation: why 12 months matters 13:54 The full funnel stack (home → PDP → flows) 14:25 The big mistake: trust vs desire (and how to fix it) Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

    21 min
  4. Ep 82: Email & SMS Drove 3.3x Higher Growth (Jordan's Analysis)

    APR 14

    Ep 82: Email & SMS Drove 3.3x Higher Growth (Jordan's Analysis)

    In this episode, Jordan dove into the data of 20 ecommerce brands to see what actually happens when you add email and SMS into the mix. The result: → 3.3x higher median growth → More revenue from repeat customers → Stronger overall efficiency (MER, ROAS, P&L) Email and SMS don’t just drive extra revenue. They make your entire acquisition system work better. In this episode: Why retention drives disproportionate growthHow repeat revenue compounds over timeWhy email unlocks more ad spendThe metrics that actually matter (and the ones that don’t) 00:00 Why Email & SMS Drive Growth 02:48 The 5 Metrics That Matter 04:42 3.3x Higher Growth Explained 10:01 What This Means for Your Business Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

    14 min

  5. APR 7

    Ep 81: Turn Content Into Authority (Then Into Revenue)

    Most brands are producing content. Very few are turning it into authority. In this episode, Jordan and Chris Panteli from Linkifi break down how content actually drives growth beyond your own channels—and why backlinks, brand mentions, and external coverage are becoming critical in both Google and AI-driven search. If you’re only thinking about email, ads, and your website, you’re missing a major layer of the ecosystem. We cover: Why content + links still drive search visibility How backlinks build authority (and why most don’t move the needle) The difference between brand mentions vs links—and why both matter How LLMs (like ChatGPT) decide which brands to recommend The simplest way to start getting featured on major publications How to extend your content beyond your own ecosystem 00:00 The cheapest revenue channel you’re underusing 00:41 The simple SEO formula: content + links 02:19 Meet Chris Panteli (Linkifi) 05:09 How backlinks actually drive traffic 08:26 How AI decides which brands to recommend 11:18 How to get featured (even for free) 15:26 Good vs bad backlinks (what to avoid) 21:16 Building authority across the internet Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

    26 min

  6. MAR 31

    Ep 80: Stop Targeting Everyone (Do This Instead)

    Most brands don’t have a testing problem. They have a targeting problem. In this episode, Jordan is joined by Pilothouse strategist Chris Richards to break down why “marketing to everyone” is quietly killing performance — and what to do instead. The reality: growth doesn’t come from more creative, more tests, or more spend. It comes from choosing the right customer and building your entire system around them. We get into how to actually define personas, why most brands get stuck in “tactical spinning,” and how the wrong customer at the top of funnel can break everything downstream — from ads to landing pages to email. If your performance feels inconsistent, this is likely where things are going wrong. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why targeting multiple personas at once weakens your results How to identify the most profitable customer to focus on The biggest mistake brands make when scaling “winning” ads How to align ads, landing pages, and email around one persona What metrics actually matter when validating your targeting 00:00 Why most brands struggle to grow 00:41 Why specificity beats broad targeting 01:53 What persona strategy actually looks like 03:14 Building personas from segments + behavior 04:34 Why you shouldn’t target everyone at once 05:33 Real example: choosing the right customer 07:52 The problem with “tactical spinning” 10:12 How the wrong customer breaks retention 13:04 How to measure if you’re targeting right 16:21 Aligning ads, landing pages, and email Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

    29 min

  7. MAR 24

    Ep 79: Inside Deliverability: An Email Guy’s Email Guy (Pierre Pignault, MailSoar)

    Email deliverability isn’t a single metric. There’s no dashboard that tells you exactly why you’re going to spam. In this episode of The World’s Best Email & Retention Podcast, Jordan sits down with Pierre Pignault, founder of MailSoar and an “email guy’s email guy,” to break down how deliverability actually works in 2026. From misleading open rates to spam filter behavior, this is a deep dive into how top operators diagnose and fix inbox placement issues. We get into: The 3 signals that actually determine inbox vs spamWhy high open rates can be a red flagHow to tell if your emails are really being seenThe biggest segmentation mistake killing deliverabilityWhy deliverability issues show up weeks after they startHow spam filters actually think (and what they care about) 00:00 Fastest way to drive revenue (email + CRO) 02:20 Why deliverability is impossible to measure directly 08:25 The 3 signals that determine inbox vs spam 17:35 Why high open rates can be fake 23:44 The #1 mistake killing deliverability (segmentation) 29:59 How to fix deliverability in 30 days 33:24 What happens when you send too many emails Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

    45 min

  8. MAR 17

    Ep 78: The Gator vs Judge: The Psychology of Ecommerce Conversion (with Dylan Ander)

    Most ecommerce brands obsess over conversion rate. But according to Dylan Ander, that’s the wrong metric to optimize. In this episode of the World's Best Email & Retention Podcast, Jordan sits down with Dylan Ander — founder of Heatmap.com and author of Billion Dollar Websites — to break down the psychology behind how people actually buy online. Dylan introduces his “Gator vs Judge” framework, a simple way to understand the two forces behind every purchase decision. The “Gator” is the fast, instinctive brain that wants to buy, while the “Judge” is the skeptical brain that introduces doubt, friction, and hesitation. If your website triggers the Judge too early, you lose the sale. If you design a Gator-friendly experience, customers move naturally toward purchase. We also dive into why some of the most common CRO advice may be outdated, including the belief that fewer clicks always lead to more conversions. In this episode, we cover: • The Gator vs Judge framework for ecommerce conversion • Why conversion rate can be a vanity metric • Why more pages visited can actually increase revenue • How to use heatmaps tied directly to revenue • Why your homepage might be your most important landing page • The difference between demographics and psychographics in ecommerce marketing • Why asking customers what they want is the fastest way to improve your site 00:00 Why Email + CRO Drive the Fastest Ecommerce Revenue 01:21 Meet Dylan Ander (Heatmap.com & Billion Dollar Websites) 04:38 The “Choke Point” Framework for Website Conversion 07:04 Why More Pages Visited Can Increase Revenue 11:17 Using Revenue-Based Heatmaps to Improve CRO 17:51 The Psychology of Headlines, Subject Lines, and Conversion 22:26 The Gator vs Judge Framework for Ecommerce 28:26 Why Your Homepage Might Be Your Best Landing Page Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

    34 min
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About

Welcome to The World's Best Email and Retention Podcast, or as we've been calling it, TWBERP. Dive into weekly episodes designed to help new and seasoned email and retention marketers make the most out of their email program. Get educated, get inspired, and get your notebook ready because you've got some work to do. Hosted by Pilothouse's Jordan Gordon on the DTC Podcast Network.

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