The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)

Exit Five
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Interviews with top marketers sharing tactical tips, strategies, and lessons learned to help you grow your business. Hosted by Dave Gerhardt, founder of Exit Five, former CMO, and author of Founder Brand. Learn more at exitfive.com

  1. 1 day ago

    Why Marketing Is a Human Profession

    #362 | Dave sits down with Eddie Shleyner, founder of VeryGoodCopy.com, to talk about why great marketing copy can't be generated — it has to be written. They get into why AI writing feels flat, what separates copy that moves people from copy that just fills space, and why the process of writing is where the real work happens. Eddie also shares how he accidentally built one of the most-read copywriting newsletters on the internet and what he's learned about writing for humans after years of studying what makes people take action. Timestamps (00:00) - - - How Eddie accidentally discovered copywriting while writing job ads (02:10) - - - Why marketers are starting to push back on AI-generated content (02:11) - - - Why the best copy gives readers less — and makes them feel more (02:16) - - - Marketing is a human profession because empathy can't be prompted (02:25) - - - Where AI actually helps: research, not writing (02:29) - - - How VeryGoodCopy started as a private Google Doc no one was supposed to see (02:34) - - - Why AI writing tells you how to feel instead of letting you feel it (02:35) - - - The experiment: Eddie wrote the same story as AI, word for word, to prove a point (02:37) - - - What inspired writing has that AI writing doesn't (02:43) - - - Why shortcuts in the writing process produce worse work, not faster work Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership ***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by our friends at Paramark. You’ve heard it before – every B2B marketer’s top pain point is marketing attribution. It’s complicated, messy, and too often leads to fights with your CRO over whose lead deserves credit. That’s where Paramark steps in. Their platform makes it simple to understand what’s driving results (and what isn’t) with tools like marketing mix modeling and incremental testing. No more relying on outdated click attribution or chasing UTM links. Instead, Paramark gives you actionable insights across channels, campaigns, and geographies to help you grow. Paramark's founder & CEO Pranav has been in your shoes as a B2B marketer. He’s so passionate about solving this problem, he’s offering listeners a free brand assessment. Pranav will personally analyze your brand’s performance and share his insights—an opportunity you don’t want to miss. Slots are limited, so act fast. Head to paramark.com/brand-consult to claim your spot. Trust us, this is worth your time. *** Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production. They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

    54 min

  2. 5 days ago

    How to Win at AEO (Answer Engine Optimization)

    #361 | In this episode, Matt Carnevale, Head of Community at Exit Five talks with three marketers doing impactful work in AEO. AI search is changing how buyers find products, and most B2B teams are still figuring out where to start. In this session, each marketer shares what's working and wins they’ve experienced — from earned media and technical audits to homepage fixes and tracking AI visibility. Whether you call it AEO, GEO, LLMO, or EIEIO – this one’s for you. This session features guests Matt Dzugan, VP of Data Intelligence at Muckrack, Brett Bernath, Director of Product at Webflow, and Jess Joyce, Founder of Inbound Scope – an SEO and AI Search consultancy. Timestamps (00:00) - - - Why 80% of CMOs say AEO is a top priority — and most don't know where to start (02:00) - - - How Muckrack used original research to get cited in ChatGPT before their product launch (02:02) - - - Why top-of-funnel content is getting eaten by AI — and where to focus instead (02:05) - - - Quick win #3: authority — how to show up in Reddit and third-party platforms (02:08) - - - The sleeper tip: Bing Webmaster Tools is already giving you first-party AI data (02:19) - - - How to handle competitor comparison content without verifiable claims falling flat (02:35) - - - The four-bucket AEO maturity model: content, technical, authority, measurement (02:36) - - - Why your homepage is your worst-performing page for AI discoverability (02:39) - - - Quick win #1: technical hygiene — schema, meta descriptions, and structured data (02:40) - - - How to identify which journalists get cited most by AI in your niche (02:41) - - - Quick win #2: are you actually answering what your customers are asking? (02:46) - - - Why 1 in 3 B2B SaaS sites have technical blockers killing AI discoverability (02:48) - - - Why original research is the single best content type for earning AI citations Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership ***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by our friends at Paramark. You’ve heard it before – every B2B marketer’s top pain point is marketing attribution. It’s complicated, messy, and too often leads to fights with your CRO over whose lead deserves credit. That’s where Paramark steps in. Their platform makes it simple to understand what’s driving results (and what isn’t) with tools like marketing mix modeling and incremental testing. No more relying on outdated click attribution or chasing UTM links. Instead, Paramark gives you actionable insights across channels, campaigns, and geographies to help you grow. Paramark's founder & CEO Pranav has been in your shoes as a B2B marketer. He’s so passionate about solving this problem, he’s offering listeners a free brand assessment. Pranav will personally analyze your brand’s performance and share his insights—an opportunity you don’t want to miss. Slots are limited, so act fast. Head to paramark.com/brand-consult to claim your spot. Trust us, this is worth your time. *** Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production. They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

    57 min

  3. 1 Jun

    Why B2B brands should be doing influencer marketing with Ishveen Jolly

    #360 | Dave sits down with Ishveen Jolly, founder and CEO of Open Sponsorship, to talk about what influencer and athlete marketing actually looks like for B2B brands — and why it's more accessible than most marketers think. Ishveen breaks down how a $5K March Madness campaign outperformed traditional ads, why your first influencer deal will almost certainly miss on the offer, and how to think about sports sponsorships without a Tommy Fleetwood budget. They get into audience-fit versus story-fit sponsorships, why the goal should never be a landing page click, and why most B2B teams are applying the wrong success metrics from the start. If you've ever wondered how to get into influencer or sports sponsorship marketing without a Fortune 500 budget, this is the episode. Timestamps Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership ***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by our friends at Paramark. You’ve heard it before – every B2B marketer’s top pain point is marketing attribution. It’s complicated, messy, and too often leads to fights with your CRO over whose lead deserves credit. That’s where Paramark steps in. Their platform makes it simple to understand what’s driving results (and what isn’t) with tools like marketing mix modeling and incremental testing. No more relying on outdated click attribution or chasing UTM links. Instead, Paramark gives you actionable insights across channels, campaigns, and geographies to help you grow. Paramark's founder & CEO Pranav has been in your shoes as a B2B marketer. He’s so passionate about solving this problem, he’s offering listeners a free brand assessment. Pranav will personally analyze your brand’s performance and share his insights—an opportunity you don’t want to miss. Slots are limited, so act fast. Head to paramark.com/brand-consult to claim your spot. Trust us, this is worth your time. *** Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production. They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

    45 min

  4. 28 May

    How Snowflake Runs ABM with Casey Patterson

    #359 | Dave sits down with Casey Patterson, Director of ABM at Snowflake, to talk about what ABM actually looks like inside one of the biggest companies in enterprise software. Casey breaks down how she cold LinkedIn messaged her now-boss Hillary to get her ABM decks reviewed before ever working together, why ABM works best when marketing stops thinking about credit and just focuses on helping sales get into accounts, and how she's thinking about the shift from traditional ABM plays to agent-driven ABM. They also get into geo-fenced out-of-home advertising, one-to-one field marketing plays, and why the future of ABM looks more like Netflix than a campaign calendar. Plus a surprisingly good tangent on finding mentors and how to actually get one. Timestamps (00:00) - - How Casey cold LinkedIn messaged her way into a mentorship (07:54) - - What a mentor actually is and how to find one (14:53) - - Why delusional confidence is underrated in marketing (19:24) - - The crux of ABM: sales alignment or nothing (22:31) - - ABM is not running digital ads to a list of accounts (27:56) - - How Casey thinks about running a team of 23 ABM marketers (30:51) - - A real ABM play: field event, OOH, gifting, and email at once (39:09) - - How to figure out the right number of accounts to target (44:10) - - Agent ABM: the three phases Casey is building toward (47:26) - - The future of ABM: reaching people in their preferred channels (49:28) - - How Dave uses AI to write his newsletter (56:11) - - The bull case for marketers in the age of AI Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership ***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by our friends at Paramark. You’ve heard it before – every B2B marketer’s top pain point is marketing attribution. It’s complicated, messy, and too often leads to fights with your CRO over whose lead deserves credit. That’s where Paramark steps in. Their platform makes it simple to understand what’s driving results (and what isn’t) with tools like marketing mix modeling and incremental testing. No more relying on outdated click attribution or chasing UTM links. Instead, Paramark gives you actionable insights across channels, campaigns, and geographies to help you grow. Paramark's founder & CEO Pranav has been in your shoes as a B2B marketer. He’s so passionate about solving this problem, he’s offering listeners a free brand assessment. Pranav will personally analyze your brand’s performance and share his insights—an opportunity you don’t want to miss. Slots are limited, so act fast. Head to paramark.com/brand-consult to claim your spot. Trust us, this is worth your time. *** Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production. They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

    1hr 4min

  5. 25 May

    What’s Actually Working in B2B Email Right Now

    #358 | Ben Wallis (Customer Lifecycle Manager, Quo), Jaina Mistry (Director of Brand and Content Marketing, Knak), Kremi Mestanova (B2B Content and Growth Strategist, Kremi Marketing), and Tyler Cook (Head of Email Marketing, Hypermedia Marketing) join Dave for an Exit Five live session on what's actually working in email right now. Ben shows how Quo built a Spotify Wrapped-style year-in-review campaign with fully personalized GIFs and real usage data for every customer. Jaina makes the case for why B2B newsletters are one of the most slept-on trust-building channels in marketing, and breaks down the operating model that makes it sustainable. Tyler Cook shares his five-step AI-powered newsjacking system that goes from trend to sent email in under an hour, including a real example that got a 67% open rate. And Kremi walks through how she restructured email programs for two very different B2B brands and cut unsubscribe rates by 20% while lifting click-through rates by 40%. Timestamps (00:00) - - Intro (06:05) - - Ben Wallis: personalized year-in-review email campaign for every customer (16:34) - - Jaina Mistry: why B2B newsletters are the most slept-on trust channel (28:42) - - The operating model that makes publishing 52 newsletters a year sustainable (29:02) - - Tyler Cook: the AI-powered newsjacking system that goes from trend to sent in under an hour (40:44) - - Kremi Mestanova: restructuring email programs for two very different B2B brands (50:02) - - Live Q&A Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership ***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by our friends at Paramark. You’ve heard it before – every B2B marketer’s top pain point is marketing attribution. It’s complicated, messy, and too often leads to fights with your CRO over whose lead deserves credit. That’s where Paramark steps in. Their platform makes it simple to understand what’s driving results (and what isn’t) with tools like marketing mix modeling and incremental testing. No more relying on outdated click attribution or chasing UTM links. Instead, Paramark gives you actionable insights across channels, campaigns, and geographies to help you grow. Paramark's founder & CEO Pranav has been in your shoes as a B2B marketer. He’s so passionate about solving this problem, he’s offering listeners a free brand assessment. Pranav will personally analyze your brand’s performance and share his insights—an opportunity you don’t want to miss. Slots are limited, so act fast. Head to paramark.com/brand-consult to claim your spot. Trust us, this is worth your time. *** Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production. They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

    54 min

  6. 21 May

    How Ramp Is Rebuilding Marketing Around AI Agents

    #357 | Dave sits down with George Bonaci, VP of Growth at Ramp, to talk about what growth actually looks like at one of the most talked-about brands in B2B. George breaks down why Ramp has no CMO and why he thinks that's a feature, not a bug. He makes the case for attention as the new moat when execution gets commoditized, and shares how he went from hardcore attribution obsessive to betting on stunts with no direct attribution. They also get into Project Glass, Ramp's internal AI tool that reads every Slack channel, preps his meetings, and diagnosed a reporting issue in 15 minutes that would have taken two weeks to investigate. And George shares why he thinks marketers now have two jobs: marketing to humans and marketing to machines. Timestamps (00:00) - - George's background: from biochemist to accidental marketer (06:36) - - How marketing is structured at Ramp (no CMO) (08:51) - - Why brand is the growth lever (13:06) - - AI and the death of functional marketing roles (14:21) - - Ramp's hub and spoke model for AI (15:41) - - Building autonomous go-to-market workflows (16:51) - - How the team responded to going agent-first (20:31) - - The J curve of productivity (21:51) - - Are marketing jobs safe? (23:36) - - Marketing to machines: Ramp's two jobs (24:51) - - Offering $3,000 bonuses to AI agents (29:02) - - Project Glass: Ramp's internal AI tool (34:42) - - Attention as the new moat (36:32) - - How to measure attention without direct attribution (41:42) - - Why taste matters more than ever in direct mail and events (42:42) - - How George went from "measure everything" to betting on stunts Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership ***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by our friends at Paramark. You’ve heard it before – every B2B marketer’s top pain point is marketing attribution. It’s complicated, messy, and too often leads to fights with your CRO over whose lead deserves credit. That’s where Paramark steps in. Their platform makes it simple to understand what’s driving results (and what isn’t) with tools like marketing mix modeling and incremental testing. No more relying on outdated click attribution or chasing UTM links. Instead, Paramark gives you actionable insights across channels, campaigns, and geographies to help you grow. Paramark's founder & CEO Pranav has been in your shoes as a B2B marketer. He’s so passionate about solving this problem, he’s offering listeners a free brand assessment. Pranav will personally analyze your brand’s performance and share his insights—an opportunity you don’t want to miss. Slots are limited, so act fast. Head to paramark.com/brand-consult to claim your spot. Trust us, this is worth your time. *** Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production. They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

    50 min

  7. 18 May

    How to Think About AEO with Brett Domeny (Director of Product Management at Webflow)

    #356 | Dave sits down with Brett Domeny, product lead at Webflow focused on AEO, to talk about what it actually takes to show up in AI search. Brett breaks down Webflow's AEO maturity model — four core areas that actually matter: content, technical structure, authority, and measurement — and why most of AEO is just good SEO done right. They get into how LLM crawlers work and what your site needs to do to be discoverable, why Reddit and community platforms have outsized influence on AI citations, and how to measure whether any of it is working. Check out Webflow's free AEO assessment here. Timestamps (00:00) - - Intro and Brett's background (02:00) - - The state of search and why CMOs are worried (04:00) - - Webflow's AEO maturity model (05:30) - - Why AEO is an evolution of SEO, not a replacement (06:30) - - Technical: how LLM crawlers work (16:00) - - Content: optimize for questions, not keywords (19:00) - - Does authentic content still win in an AI world? (26:00) - - Measurement: the three-bucket framework (30:00) - - How accurate are the prompt visibility tools? (37:00) - - How to show your boss AEO is working (40:00) - - Authority: why Reddit has outsized influence on AI citations (43:00) - - Why Brett has stayed at Webflow for six years

    46 min

  8. 14 May

    Should You Run Marketing Like a Product Team?

    #355 | Dave sits down with Maria Scheifler to talk about why your marketing team might be getting less done as it grows — and what to do about it. Maria makes the case for running marketing like a product team: two-week sprints, a prioritized backlog, and a lightweight intake process that kills approval bottlenecks without losing control. She walks through the context-switching exercise that proves multitasking is destroying your output, how to push back on random requests from across the company without saying no, and why getting team buy-in before rolling out any operational changes is the step most marketing leaders skip. Timestamps (00:00) - - Intro: the problem isn't your strategy, it's your operating system (04:14) - - Maria's background (07:14) - - Why teams get bigger and somehow get less done (09:43) - - The multitasking exercise that proves context switching kills output (17:12) - - Running marketing like a product team: the mindset shift (20:00) - - Building a working agreement with your team (22:32) - - The experimentation guardrail template: killing approval bottlenecks without losing control (28:48) - - Building a prioritized backlog (33:09) - - How the backlog helps you push back without saying no (39:58) - - Two-week sprints: how to plan, commit, and ship (42:10) - - Daily standups: how to keep them short and useful (43:01) - - Sprint reviews: showing the rest of the company what marketing does (44:42) - - Retrospectives (46:41) - - Where to start on Monday Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership ***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by our friends at Paramark. You’ve heard it before – every B2B marketer’s top pain point is marketing attribution. It’s complicated, messy, and too often leads to fights with your CRO over whose lead deserves credit. That’s where Paramark steps in. Their platform makes it simple to understand what’s driving results (and what isn’t) with tools like marketing mix modeling and incremental testing. No more relying on outdated click attribution or chasing UTM links. Instead, Paramark gives you actionable insights across channels, campaigns, and geographies to help you grow. Paramark's founder & CEO Pranav has been in your shoes as a B2B marketer. He’s so passionate about solving this problem, he’s offering listeners a free brand assessment. Pranav will personally analyze your brand’s performance and share his insights—an opportunity you don’t want to miss. Slots are limited, so act fast. Head to paramark.com/brand-consult to claim your spot. Trust us, this is worth your time. *** Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production. They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

    53 min
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Interviews with top marketers sharing tactical tips, strategies, and lessons learned to help you grow your business. Hosted by Dave Gerhardt, founder of Exit Five, former CMO, and author of Founder Brand. Learn more at exitfive.com

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